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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 27, 2022, 06:22:56 PM

Title: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 27, 2022, 06:22:56 PM: Started a set of limbs for a standard 3 piece takedown bow that I have a riser ready for. When I took it out of the mold, I realized I had flipped the wedge. Ended up with a bit of deflex. Was going to use these on a riser for a 15 degree pad like some other takedown bows I have. Ended up it is going to take 4 degrees less. I did not want to screw up the riser just to experiment, so I glued one with some plain walnut and some maple. I gave it 1 inch more flat at the limb butt, than my ILF. I started the taper 1 inch past the fades as well. We will see if it shoots or was a costly time lesson.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Stagmitis on February 28, 2022, 07:37:35 AM: Love the tip!
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 08:35:29 AM: You can make some test risers with different angles.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 08:49:50 AM: Test risers! Exactly what I am doing! They are easy to make vs form changes...I have a good bit of 8/4 maple and walnut I may use for these test risers. Got to make one to use for tillering limbs as well.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on February 28, 2022, 09:05:19 AM: Quote from: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 08:49:50 AM
Test risers! Exactly what I am doing! They are easy to make vs form changes...I have a good bit of 8/4 maple and walnut I may use for these test risers. Got to make one to use for tillering limbs as well.

Did You just started building bows when you joined Trad gang in October 21?
Glad to have you on here
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 09:22:03 AM: Yes. This is my second set of limbs and 4th riser. Working on my 3 piece setups. One piece hopefully this spring. Got a pretty good mentor for 1 piece bows! Mike Treadway got me into all this... I blame him.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Pat B on February 28, 2022, 09:40:20 AM: You can't go wrong with Mike as your mentor. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on February 28, 2022, 10:31:20 AM: Rookie of the year :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 11:53:29 AM: I have been using a 2x4 with this nut.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 12:19:13 PM: Got a design in my head for a tillering,weight check , draw board that has adjustable limb pad angles. Will post up when I build it, hopefully this week.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 12:27:05 PM: I have a adjustable riser and a tillering table. I will post a pic when I get into the shop.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 12:40:29 PM: Sweet! Any ideas are welcome. Thanks.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 05:28:46 PM: Tillering table
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 05:30:32 PM: Table bow holder
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on February 28, 2022, 05:31:58 PM: Adjustable riser
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Flem on February 28, 2022, 06:08:54 PM: Nice setup there OR42 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on February 28, 2022, 09:36:18 PM: That is genius OR42!

I threw together a riser today to check tiller and brace height. Depending on where I set the throat, I ended up with a 25-30 lb bow...little short of my 40 is goal. I have all the stack measurements for next go round.

Without any adjusting, it measured equal tiller and brace height! Probably not be able to do that again! It is very stable though. No flop.

This may be my grandsons bow, or mine if I kill my shoulder!
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Buemaker on March 01, 2022, 05:57:57 AM: Living room tillering table. Old, do you have a wife? :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 01, 2022, 06:33:01 AM: Bue, LMAO:)
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 01, 2022, 06:56:32 AM: Bue :biglaugh: I just saw that! While not the living room, i tend to use the kitchen counter! My shop is 30 minutes from my house. We bought a 12'x24' building for me to use at home....she filled it up with antique sewing machines and her stuff. We bought another 12x16...you guessed it...she put more machines and all that was left was room for my law mower.

She complains and I just point to the sheds... :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Pat B on March 01, 2022, 09:56:58 AM: Kenneth, I have an antique, treadle shoe tacker sewing machine if your wife is interested to help fill up the new shed. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on March 01, 2022, 10:04:39 AM: Ya Bue I have a wife. We bought the house next door to us. She can fill one I will fill the other one.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 01, 2022, 10:39:11 AM: Pat B, I bet we have one! A few cobbler machines. I have put the stop on more machines. We are gearing up to move/build in the next year...
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Pat B on March 01, 2022, 12:02:41 PM: :thumbsup: Good luck on the move/build. We did that in 1990 and we both enjoyed every bit of it.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 05, 2022, 09:43:19 AM: So, ended up at 9 degrees and 32 lbs at 28. The riser I threw together is actually turning out nice. Got to do some more shaping and and an overlay on the front to tie in the color differences. Got a little creative on the mill.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 05, 2022, 09:44:55 AM: Another pic
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Stagmitis on March 05, 2022, 11:12:15 AM: Love the look of that riser and the grip shape too :clapper:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 05, 2022, 04:35:29 PM: This turned out pretty dang nice. Blind Hog!
The maple has a lot of curl, the walnut has some stuff going on. I am pleased!
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: kennym on March 05, 2022, 05:31:57 PM: Nice work!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: onetone on March 05, 2022, 11:21:15 PM: Nice riser. What’s the red in the accent strip?
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 06:46:23 AM: Bloodwood. Trying to use all wood in risers.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: onetone on March 06, 2022, 10:28:57 AM: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 11:55:53 AM: Quote from: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 06:46:23 AM
Bloodwood. Trying to use all wood in risers.

I always compare all woods to Osage's Specific Gravity and Janka Hardness
What kind of Walnut? English is harder than Black
You have a laminated riser , that always helps, you have more walnut than Maple, both about the same

https://www.bellforestproducts.com/exotic-wood/

not sure what kind this is but it was plenty dry
the white is phenolic
I don't know how strong this is but it was a new design so I went for it

(https://i.imgur.com/jetQH69.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KOzrD06.jpg)
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 12:42:29 PM: That design looks nice! My riser is black walnut. One thing I try to do and did on this riser , is catch all the layers with the threaded insert for the limbs. This one catches all the layers and that helps tie it in.

This bow will never see more than 30 lbs. My ILG risers have about 50lbs and no issues yet. Bit they have only bee together now for several months. The layers are all tied together with the insert on those as well.

They may blow up tomorrow, but then I can determine why since I built them.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 01:55:49 PM: You will be fine :thumbsup:

I forgot to say about the thread insert and try and use 1 of the woods being harder.
Your doing a fantastic job :thumbsup: the info on that link bellforest is very helpful.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 03:01:52 PM: I do use Bellforest, but this is is the one I use the most.
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-filter/
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Longcruise on March 06, 2022, 03:48:43 PM: Quote from: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 06:46:23 AM
Bloodwood. Trying to use all wood in risers.

I always compare all woods to Osage's Specific Gravity and Janka Hardness
What kind of Walnut? English is harder than Black
You have a laminated riser , that always helps, you have more walnut than Maple, both about the same

https://www.bellforestproducts.com/exotic-wood/

not sure what kind this is but it was plenty dry
the white is phenolic
I don't know how strong this is but it was a new design so I went for it

(https://i.imgur.com/jetQH69.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KOzrD06.jpg)

I like the low no profile limb bolts. Let's the eye appreciate the form and design.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 04:16:16 PM: Ok, how was that done? That does look very nice. Beyond my abilities right now with all the curves that have to match!
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 04:50:37 PM: Flat Head Socket Head Cap Screws
Did not work very well, seems like it needed the washer and bezel to push down better on the limb, but the limb pad was only 3" long also, and the bolt was in the center, the end of the limb wanted to pull away from the limb pad (gap)
between the two things I don't know
This was a prototype
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 04:57:06 PM: Drill jig and pattern sanding templates

(https://i.imgur.com/uKr33jr.jpg)
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 05:03:39 PM: I believe a T nut could work but your bolt would have to come up from the bottom and I think you would need 2 pieces of phenolic on top of the limbs , one to counter sink the T nut and one to cover the T nut :dunno:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 06, 2022, 06:39:36 PM: Can you just add another bolt? I believe Bob Lee has 2 on each limb. That is a really cool combo!
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 06, 2022, 07:08:42 PM: That's not what I wanted.
I have made the limb pad 4" on my CAD program but have not made the bow yet.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Arlo on March 08, 2022, 08:43:43 PM: I don't want to rain on your parade, but i see a potential heart ache in your riser design. This bow being such a light draw weight may hold up just fine.... But... The design is going to fail on heavier poundage bows. ... Been there... done that... have the T shirt.

Even using dense hardwood, these limb pockets will often split at this point.

Arlo
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 08, 2022, 10:48:42 PM: Yep
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 09, 2022, 05:39:33 AM: I thought of that. But only being 30 lbs , hoping I could get away with it. Part of the reason I left the maple so thick of the ends as well.

Time will tell. With the mistake in the limbs, this thing may be a huge failure.
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Arlo on March 09, 2022, 12:40:29 PM: There are no such things as huge failures in bow building. Some experiments are just more exciting than others. "The thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat."

Most beginning bowyers don't see the importance of wedge length and taper rate on TD limbs, and end up with a hinge at the fades, and limbs that stack up at 30" draw. Your stacking point can be manipulated a lot by pushing the working portion of the limb away from the fades with longer lean wedges, or power lams. The length of the working portion of the limb can be manipulated with tip wedges... even in deep core long bows......

It can be a lot of fun pushing wedges back and forth and experimenting with different forward taper rates and see the difference it makes on how those limbs bend, store energy, and most importantly.... how much stored energy you can successfully transfer to the arrow shaft..... There are a lot of little tricks to learn about balancing limbs, and experimenting with preload and limb pad angles once you have your limbs bending nicely too.

My advise is to Start a bowyers log, and document every little change you make. After a few years and 50 bows under your belt, that bowyers log becomes invaluable when prototyping new limb designs... It's never ending and can be very entertaining at times. It can also be frustrating at times too. learning to be consistent and only change one thing at a time, and document it, is the key to making head way.
Arlo
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: kennym on March 09, 2022, 12:42:35 PM: ^^^

This is very good, especially keeping the log... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 09, 2022, 02:23:53 PM: I have been keeping logs. Even to taper length, angle of fade, and lam thickness of the stack every 5 inches. This was the first 3 piece and was supposed to be a good start...

Get to go back into the shop this evening and start on the next one. Made some changes to my mold.

On my table I use to do my layout, posting a "layout diagram" so I don't flip the wedge or put it in the wrong order of the lams!

I already taped the wrong side of the glass once :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Booboo bow.
Post by: Mad Max on March 10, 2022, 05:55:33 PM: Just before gluing up you limbs, stack up your limbs just like they need to be, take them off 1 at a time and epoxy them and re stack as you go :thumbsup: