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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: onetone on January 23, 2022, 06:20:33 PM

Title: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on January 23, 2022, 06:20:33 PM
I’ve been wanting to try Hickory for lams in limbs and I’m wondering if anyone here has used it.  Would appreciate hearing comments and experiences. I usually pair maple (belly lam) with boo (back lam) and will probably do the same with Hickory.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Buemaker on January 23, 2022, 06:40:32 PM
I remember Bill Howland said he made his own actionwood from Hickory. He said it worked very well in his recurves when shooting heavy arrows. Myself I have not tried it.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: kennym on January 23, 2022, 07:04:52 PM
I haven't tested any with it , but in the Walk the Talk competition a few years back hickory placed high if I remember right
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 23, 2022, 07:26:28 PM
What Bue and Kenny said.
The WTT bow had hickory Pell. But blew at Compton don't think the reason was determined other than maybe a bad layup.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on January 24, 2022, 10:38:41 PM
Stic - was that two Hickory parallels with the WTT bow? Thanks for the input guys. I’m gonna give it a go.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 25, 2022, 03:43:59 PM
I message the builder he said it had a prll and an .002 taper  with tip wedges and power lamps. I would imagine his design was the key to 201 fps. That was a 6 in. Brace and six strand string. Was still in the 190s at hunting setup. FYI all the speeds were recorded of controlled shooting machine.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: kennym on January 25, 2022, 04:06:52 PM
That one was only glass with no carbon too , Mike ?
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 25, 2022, 11:12:02 PM
No carbon. The pics are all gone on that site was back when we all used photobucket
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on January 26, 2022, 09:25:29 PM
Stic - Now I’m curious about that bow. Do you know what length it was and what about its configuration? Thanks.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 27, 2022, 09:10:00 AM
Okay I went to the Pirates of archery site.
Look for WTT 3 results and they have fd curves and some of the pics are there but very poor. TJ Estemeyer was the hickory bow and said it was 66 in.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: kennym on January 27, 2022, 09:22:13 AM
http://piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=6e5fc96090535460fde489c28e38a033
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on January 27, 2022, 11:04:06 AM
Thanks guys, :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Stagmitis on January 27, 2022, 05:56:14 PM
Mike, there was another hickory bow built by Feral Donkey the creator of the site. For a straight longbow without any backset it had very impressive speed-

The interesting thing about Hickory is it can take a temper like bamboo-
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 27, 2022, 08:28:07 PM
 Yes I remember Ferals bow.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on March 21, 2022, 04:37:31 PM
Got around to building a bow with hickory core lams, belly only boo in back. 57" NTN 40# DW
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Flem on March 21, 2022, 04:54:24 PM
Nice looking bow :thumbsup: How does it shoot?
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Shredd on March 21, 2022, 06:42:16 PM
  Beautiful lines at full draw...  What does she look like at brace???
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 21, 2022, 07:14:03 PM
I like it :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on March 21, 2022, 11:40:35 PM
Flem - It shoots fine, but I don't notice any increase in arrow speed over same design with maple/boo. When the weather eases I'll get the chrony out and compare numbers. I did notice that there was less spring back when I pulled it off the form.

Shredd - some pics below.

Thanks for the comments guys.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Buemaker on March 22, 2022, 05:44:28 AM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 23, 2022, 10:03:34 AM
Any body heat treated Hickory?

Resaw, heat treat, glue up like boo flooring :dunno:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 23, 2022, 10:10:59 AM
Where I get my lumber offers  "thermal" treated white woods. Thermal ash, poplar etc. Need to ask them if they can do hickory.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 23, 2022, 11:33:26 AM
Yea I found that thermo wood also
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Shredd on March 23, 2022, 06:31:41 PM
Very Nice..!
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Shredd on March 23, 2022, 06:34:57 PM
I just saw a Clay Hays video on heat treating a stick bow...  I think it was Hickory...
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 23, 2022, 06:41:29 PM
Kierh Shannon and the guys in Florida have been doing this for awhile.  Clay went down and spent some time with them. They have several videos on fire hardening white woods.

https://shannonoutdoors.com/primitive-bow/
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on March 23, 2022, 08:47:52 PM
I’ve never used heat modified wood in a bow … but as a kid fire hardened the point of wood spears. From what I read, fire mod. wood is harder than the raw but also less flexible by as much as 30%. That might not matter in a long bow but I wonder about it in short RCs. Does it amp up arrow speed?
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Kirkll on March 25, 2022, 03:45:32 PM
100% hickory cores can make a serious hot rod, but longevity isn't in the equation. I believe its the brittle nature of the material. I built a hot rod using paduke and hickory cores with a Uni-carbon back, & glass belly that was incredibly fast but she didn't last long. It blew up before WWT started and never made the trip.

Paduke is similar. Light weight and very brittle. Zebra wood and paduke cores are seriously fast too if that's what you are pursuing. One of my WTT entries used that combo and was hitting high 190's @10 gpp 28" draw just using glass.

  Better off sticking with maple / bamboo and tweaking your design for performance for longevity. IMO   Kirk
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 25, 2022, 05:39:28 PM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on March 25, 2022, 06:35:35 PM
Yes the key is optimizing  you design.
Then you might want to build a hotrod.
Hotrods aren't durable. Just remember that.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on March 25, 2022, 11:56:26 PM
So the question remains, why are bowyers using heat treated wood in bows? Is it a matter of appearance or performance?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on March 26, 2022, 08:19:28 AM
Who uses the heat treated wood?. Is that the same as tempered bamboo.
I think most are using normal wood or bamboo not taking a chance on heat treated. If you are talking slight performance may not be worth it.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 26, 2022, 08:55:54 AM
Who uses the heat treated wood?. Is that the same as tempered bamboo.


Yes
In my mind a stiffer core has to be better.

Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on March 26, 2022, 10:16:37 AM
Absolutely  Max. Stiffer with the same weight or less weight gonna be a plus.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: onetone on March 26, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
CS - a few posts above the guys mentioned some bowyers that were using heat treated woods.

 OK I agree, but was wondering about the durability Kirk and CS talked about, with the reduction of flexibility that goes along with increased stiffness. I guess there is always a trade-off. The subject is new to me.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Kirkll on March 27, 2022, 11:33:27 AM
For all of you using amber or carbonized bamboo flooring…. It is heat treated and in my opinion, superior in deflection attributes than raw bamboo.

Bamboo is not very good in compression, but excels in tension strength. The heat treated bamboo does better in compression.

I’ve been experimenting with a different bamboo flooring for the last few months with excellent results so far. I’ve yet to build a 100% bamboo core with it and actually do DFC charts and put them on the shooting machine side by side with my old stock. So I don’t really know what difference it’s made but if anything I’d say it’s a gain and not a loss….

because this new stuff has a significant mass weight difference to it than the vertical laminated material I’ve used for many years, I originally I thought it might be a problem. But what I found was more tensile strength allowed slightly thinner lams and mitigated the mass weight increase. I believe it might even have helped in torsional stability somewhat in RC limbs too.  Hard to test that one though. It just feels better. I’m still using rock hard maple on the belly side of my RC limbs, and using this bamboo on the back.

This stuff is made by Cali bamboo and isn’t a laminated product. It’s pressed together with woven strands and some type of epoxy resin, and has an incredible Janka rating. This is what they call Fossilized bamboo.  Here is a link.

https://www.calibamboo.com/product-java-fossilized-solid-bamboo-flooring-9009001001.html


I’m not going to recommend everyone go out and purchase this product quite yet. I’m always hesitant to endorse a new product that hasn’t got some time in the field and longevity. …. But so far I’m liking this material a lot.     Kirk
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 27, 2022, 11:59:25 AM
Could be some good stuff kirk :thumbsup:


Not the same but stranded boo lumber.
5/6 years ago a guy wanted me to make a long bow with this as the riser.
I did not see any problems with it when I was making the bow.
not a very good picture but this is all I have

(https://i.imgur.com/dYbMVbV.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Kirkll on March 27, 2022, 12:15:47 PM
Ya know something bro..... In 15 years of building these dad burn things i never once used bamboo in a riser except for accent lines. I was always wary of the poor compression attributes causing issues at the back of the shelf on a TD bow, kind of like walnut will do if not reinforced .   Probably the same on a one piece though...

Hell... it might be great stuff, I just never tried it.  How long has that bow been shooting, and what kind of draw weight is it?    Kirk
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 27, 2022, 12:26:48 PM
It was 45#
I tried to contact him but can't get any where :dunno:

I don't know if this was the same but it sounds good to me
https://www.bambooindustry.com/bamboo-plywood/strand-woven-lumber.html
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Crooked Stic on March 27, 2022, 03:03:37 PM
What I have read about heat treated wood is the process makes it more durable for things like pallets and weather a

 moisture resistance for deck woods etc. I expect that makes it stiffer and maybe more brittle.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Buemaker on March 27, 2022, 05:18:38 PM
https://youtu.be/_13pj7rrFek
I think this is what Kirk mention.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Mad Max on March 27, 2022, 06:16:40 PM
I expect that makes it stiffer and maybe more brittle.  :dunno:

Yes but, as thin as we are using it would be better.
But it sounds like Hickory is not the wood to use.
Title: Re: Hickory for limb lams?
Post by: Kirkll on March 28, 2022, 09:41:46 AM
That is interesting stuff Max. Cold pressed vs hot pressed. I’ve never seen it used in construction, but I’ll bet those beams are heavy.    Kirk