Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Wilderlife on December 31, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
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Hi all,
I've had plenty of chats with some friends over the last 12 months about shooting heavier bows and being overbowed. I decided to make this video and put it out there to see if it would get some interesting discussion going in the traditional archery community.
Of course, it's been several months since I made the video and I have a lot of other things I'd like to say or bring up but that might be for a follow up video down the line.
For now, I'd love it if anyone who is interested had a look and put some thoughts in this thread. Like I say in the video - I'm no expert and I'm still fairly new to things so take everything with a grain of salt.
https://youtu.be/k6vPruXEdvs
Cheers.
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I just finished watching your video. It held my interest from the start to the finish. You have the communication skills and the archery skills you need to make more of these, if that's the direction you would like to head.
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Great topic and video Dylan. I'm sure you'll get some great responses from the Gang on an often asked question. Personally, I'm looking for another Howard Hill bow in the mid 70's and that will be my limit.
Good Luck
Deno
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I like the video, but I want to move the discussion to your question about being overbowed. Currently, I am. I recently had back surgery and was just released to shoot the bow a few weeks ago. My hunting weight is 53# at 28", but I only pull 25 " so I'm not actually shooting much poundage. Yet, my conditioning is not yet up to snuff, causing me to tire after 20-30 arrows. The thing that really made me realize I had a way to go is that I have been shooting a 40# bow, (again with consideration for my short draw). I can shoot this one much better, as well as longer, than my regular bow. This leads me to my 2022 archery resolution, which is to get back in better physical condition. Ordinarily I have no problem at all with my regular bow. Time to go to work, because I shoot 3D with that same bow. The big take away for me is how easy it is to get overbowed during a layoff. After all, if I don't do the work, I won't shoot as well as Bisch when I grow up.
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You are a goofball Sam!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Wilderlife, that was a very good video. I shoot a lot of competition and I work at a bowhunting ranch, and I see lots of guys that are obviously overbowed. I have never been able to handle anything even close to what would be considered heavy draw weight. I started out at 50# (I was overbowed myself then). I worked and worked until that 50# was not too much for me, and shot that same weight up till earlier this year. I had a neck injury about 5yrs ago and have never really been “right” since then. Earlier this year I also developed tendinitis in my bow arm. I had to go down in weight to get that under control. After that was fixed I went back up to 46# and was/am shooting much better than before, so that is where I am staying!
Bisch
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A question I ask myself all the time.😂
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Very well done on the video. And a good topic. To me your question only has one answer: Am I in control of the bow? As in can I draw it back, hold it on target and release when I want to? For me on a hunting bow that's about 55 pounds max. 48 or so on my target bow. I can still shoot my 67 pound widow, but I can't control it. So I don't.
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Being overbowed is a big issue.For both begginers and experienced archers.
When learning to shoot you need to develop good form and good technique.Very hard to do if not impossible with too heavy a bow.Plus you need to practice alot and shoot alot of arrows with the right information and or coaching and put the puzzle together.Hard to do with too heavy a bow.So archers get off to a bad start and ingrain really bad habits that are hard to break and can also lead to target panic issues as well that are extemely aggravating.I would say its a cardinal sin to start of too heavy.
It can happen to experienced archers as well.Like when coming back from injuries,long layoffs or thier getting older etc. and thier shooting thier bows that are now too heavy.Bad habits happen.Short drawing,snap shooting,poor alignment,focus issues,no being able to get to full draw and more.Do that thousands of times and your in a big hole for sure thats hard to climb out of. Its very possible to not be overbowed have major problems from shooting bows for way to long that were too heavy and now even a lighter bow gives you fits that you know you can pull easily.Alot of it can be the bad habits that have been ingained and also psychological and or mental problems related to shooting the bow freely without hangups.
Bottom line you dont want to be overbowed.You want to be in complete control of the whole process from the start of the draw to the anchor and everything in between and finally the release.Being overbowed can screw the whole thing up whether your a begginer or a highly experienced shooter.If your not in complete control you are shooting too much poundage IMO.That includes physical control and mental control.
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Nice video and great topic.
I started with a light fiberglass bow when I was about eight years old. On my thirteenth birthday, my parents gave me a 40#.
I didn’t hunt that much through my teens, but after the Army I bought a 45# bear Super Mag.
Fifteen years later I bought a custom 60# longbow and then a 60# AA Cheetah. Most definitely overbowed with the long bow. Although I did learn to shoot the Cheetah fairly well.
Since then I have mostly stuck around the low fifties.
Except for this year, after strokes and a triple by-pass, I did months of rehab and when I got the ok from the Surgeon's office I started shooting my old 40# bow again.
Thing is, I don’t like shooting light bows that much. So, with continuing to work out, I gradually got back to shooting a 49# longbow, and eventually a 54# recurve.
I don’t consider myself to be a really strong guy either. I am a very average 69 year old. (Well ok, a little over-weight) But I wanted to continue to shoot at least 50#, so I just worked at that and it became possible. Maybe not for everyone but it worked for me. Physical therapy is a wonderful thing. I needed therapy on my shoulder and my right hand while doing cardiac rehab. But it is possible to come back from injuries.
Best to you guys in the new year,
Gary
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I really don’t have a problem with the Grip and Rip shooting guys…. If they are having fun with it then great more power to them.
The problem I see is that when a guy has been very inconsistent accuracy wise for any length of time they lose the passion to shoot a stick bow. We all want to hit what we are aiming at right? Frustration sets in when you are missing animal, we just worm too hard for those shot opportunities.
I know many trad shooters that got frustrated and went back to compounds due to the frustration of not being able to kill consistently and/or just plain inconsistent shooting.
IMO, you are over bowed if you can’t hold at FD and aim while executing a controlled shot sequence. Learning that has made all the difference for me. YMMV
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I just finished watching your video. It held my interest from the start to the finish. You have the communication skills and the archery skills you need to make more of these, if that's the direction you would like to head.
Thanks for the kind words and extra discussion via PM, bloke.
Great topic and video Dylan. I'm sure you'll get some great responses from the Gang on an often asked question. Personally, I'm looking for another Howard Hill bow in the mid 70's and that will be my limit.
Good Luck
Deno
Nothing like a heavy ASL and a heavy arrow to put a smile on the face!
I like the video, but I want to move the discussion to your question about being overbowed. Currently, I am. I recently had back surgery and was just released to shoot the bow a few weeks ago. My hunting weight is 53# at 28", but I only pull 25 " so I'm not actually shooting much poundage. Yet, my conditioning is not yet up to snuff, causing me to tire after 20-30 arrows. The thing that really made me realize I had a way to go is that I have been shooting a 40# bow, (again with consideration for my short draw). I can shoot this one much better, as well as longer, than my regular bow. This leads me to my 2022 archery resolution, which is to get back in better physical condition. Ordinarily I have no problem at all with my regular bow. Time to go to work, because I shoot 3D with that same bow. The big take away for me is how easy it is to get overbowed during a layoff. After all, if I don't do the work, I won't shoot as well as Bisch when I grow up.
I think you make a good point, mate. When shooting at your limit you can drift in and out of your bow being a bit too much I find. I haven't shot as much as I'd like over the last couple of weeks so I'm only good for a couple dozen shots out of the longbow in the video before I feel like putting it down, but I can till let rip confidently and enjoy those shots. I started competing in a few shoots down here so was using my 51# Widow a lot more and that's been a heck of a lot of fun. New longbow currently in the post will also be 51# so I'm looking forward to having an ASL I can shoot all day.
I think your point comes down to being self aware. Don't kid yourself. Be honest with where you're at and what you need to do and it's the best place to be.
You are a goofball Sam!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Wilderlife, that was a very good video. I shoot a lot of competition and I work at a bowhunting ranch, and I see lots of guys that are obviously overbowed. I have never been able to handle anything even close to what would be considered heavy draw weight. I started out at 50# (I was overbowed myself then). I worked and worked until that 50# was not too much for me, and shot that same weight up till earlier this year. I had a neck injury about 5yrs ago and have never really been “right” since then. Earlier this year I also developed tendinitis in my bow arm. I had to go down in weight to get that under control. After that was fixed I went back up to 46# and was/am shooting much better than before, so that is where I am staying!
Bisch
Absolutely, mate. The bottom line is enjoyment, right? The heavy bow has nothing to do with ego for me and everything about enjoying shooting a variety of bows. More power is always (well, usually) better, providing you can shoot the thing OK, but if you can't, there isn't much point. And as much as I enjoy flinging arrows out of a heavy bow, once I get tired I pick up a lighter bow and have just as much fun afterwards.
A question I ask myself all the time.😂
Right after a big collapse and a low right miss, resulting in a lost arrow! :o
Very well done on the video. And a good topic. To me your question only has one answer: Am I in control of the bow? As in can I draw it back, hold it on target and release when I want to? For me on a hunting bow that's about 55 pounds max. 48 or so on my target bow. I can still shoot my 67 pound widow, but I can't control it. So I don't.
Good words, mate. Control is everything.
I've had people tell me I'm not in control of the big bow because I'm not steady at full draw but then I watch them shoot and they release the second they come to anchor. I don't have a problem with people shooting the way they want to but holding an ASL steady at full draw isn't just about the draw weight as the bows themselves hardly weigh anything. My Widow I pull about 62# with is a very different story just because it's a much bigger bow.
Being overbowed is a big issue.For both begginers and experienced archers.
When learning to shoot you need to develop good form and good technique.Very hard to do if not impossible with too heavy a bow.Plus you need to practice alot and shoot alot of arrows with the right information and or coaching and put the puzzle together.Hard to do with too heavy a bow.So archers get off to a bad start and ingrain really bad habits that are hard to break and can also lead to target panic issues as well that are extemely aggravating.I would say its a cardinal sin to start of too heavy.
It can happen to experienced archers as well.Like when coming back from injuries,long layoffs or thier getting older etc. and thier shooting thier bows that are now too heavy.Bad habits happen.Short drawing,snap shooting,poor alignment,focus issues,no being able to get to full draw and more.Do that thousands of times and your in a big hole for sure thats hard to climb out of. Its very possible to not be overbowed have major problems from shooting bows for way to long that were too heavy and now even a lighter bow gives you fits that you know you can pull easily.Alot of it can be the bad habits that have been ingained and also psychological and or mental problems related to shooting the bow freely without hangups.
Bottom line you dont want to be overbowed.You want to be in complete control of the whole process from the start of the draw to the anchor and everything in between and finally the release.Being overbowed can screw the whole thing up whether your a begginer or a highly experienced shooter.If your not in complete control you are shooting too much poundage IMO.That includes physical control and mental control.
Absolutely, mate. Something I didn't mention in the video is just that; it's impossible to learn good technique if you start heavy. In actual fact, the Widow that's 65# @ 28in was the first trad bow I ever owned. It was a gift. I thought it might be OK but after one pull I knew it was too much and went straight to sourcing some lighter limbs (the 54# @ 28in ones that I pull about 51# with). Even then, I sourced other light bows and shot them just as much as the lighter Widow limbs to ensure I was starting off correct, and I STILL briefly injured my shoulder after a few weeks. It's all good now, both in terms of recovery and understanding what I was doing wrong. It wasn't an issue with the weight at all; more an issue with my technique (obviously) but isolating that problem was easier with the lighter bows.
Nice video and great topic.
I started with a light fiberglass bow when I was about eight years old. On my thirteenth birthday, my parents gave me a 40#.
I didn’t hunt that much through my teens, but after the Army I bought a 45# bear Super Mag.
Fifteen years later I bought a custom 60# longbow and then a 60# AA Cheetah. Most definitely overbowed with the long bow. Although I did learn to shoot the Cheetah fairly well.
Since then I have mostly stuck around the low fifties.
Except for this year, after strokes and a triple by-pass, I did months of rehab and when I got the ok from the Surgeon's office I started shooting my old 40# bow again.
Thing is, I don’t like shooting light bows that much. So, with continuing to work out, I gradually got back to shooting a 49# longbow, and eventually a 54# recurve.
I don’t consider myself to be a really strong guy either. I am a very average 69 year old. (Well ok, a little over-weight) But I wanted to continue to shoot at least 50#, so I just worked at that and it became possible. Maybe not for everyone but it worked for me. Physical therapy is a wonderful thing. I needed therapy on my shoulder and my right hand while doing cardiac rehab. But it is possible to come back from injuries.
Best to you guys in the new year,
Gary
More power to you, mate! I find people seem to be scared of working out - whatever that looks like - when conversations are around archery specifically. Unless of course, it is rehab-style workouts to help with recovery from some sort of injury. I believe the more you can look after your muscles and joints, the longer you'll be able to enjoy shooting bows. I know that might sound ridiculous coming from a 33 year old but it is absolutely my intention to remain fit and active so I can enjoy living my life the way I do for as long as possible - archery and everything else included.
I really don’t have a problem with the Grip and Rip shooting guys…. If they are having fun with it then great more power to them.
The problem I see is that when a guy has been very inconsistent accuracy wise for any length of time they lose the passion to shoot a stick bow. We all want to hit what we are aiming at right? Frustration sets in when you are missing animal, we just worm too hard for those shot opportunities.
I know many trad shooters that got frustrated and went back to compounds due to the frustration of not being able to kill consistently and/or just plain inconsistent shooting.
IMO, you are over bowed if you can’t hold at FD and aim while executing a controlled shot sequence. Learning that has made all the difference for me. YMMV
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Agreed.
If a bow is too much to handle from the start it'll only lead to the developing of terrible habits and it's a slippery road to go down and very difficult to climb back up.
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I can shoot the weight I do accurately for a while but the number of repetitions I like to shot it does aggravate arthritis issues.
Sometimes I think it would be worthwhile to have a second bow, say 10lbs lighter, to shoot 80 or 100 arrows in an afternoon with and just a couple of dozen with my hunting weight bows.
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I can shoot the weight I do accurately for a while but the number of repetitions I like to shot it does aggravate arthritis issues.
Sometimes I think it would be worthwhile to have a second bow, say 10lbs lighter, to shoot 80 or 100 arrows in an afternoon with and just a couple of dozen with my hunting weight bows.
There is something to be said for being able to let arrow after arrow fly as much as you want. The speed at which you shoot them can have a big impact on how tired you get as well, I find. I can walk around a field archery course and let an arrow go at 20 targets out of my heavier bows without much trouble but if I let a quiver go without a rest between arrows it can wear me out.
I showed the video to my husband. The first thing he said, "If you have more bows than you can shoot, you are over bowed." He shoots John Schulz tempo best, I shoot best if I have a slight deepening at at anchor. The term 'grip and rip it' is a reference to sloppy form, often has nothing to do with drawing bows that are too stiff. Shooting without holding time, as we here are always reminded of, involves hours, days and months of practice and paying close attention to all of the particulars, just not stopping for very long or at all at full draw. It has pointed out that some people shake holding any weight bow, but not while they are actively drawing. Some people are simply not coordinated enough to be on target when full draw is reached, they should shoot a method that works for them. However, if you are coordinated enough to be on target when you reach full draw, how often, when hunting, does one need to hold and wait for the shot to be clear or to let down? When it is time to shoot it is time to shoot.
I agree with not needing to hold while hunting often, but it does happen. For me, I'm not at the point of feeling in control of my shot unless I hold and consciously start thinking about expansion. I'd like to get there one day but for now it's not in my wheelhouse. As a result, holding my heavier bows at full draw while I think about my aim and then transfer to expansion becomes tiresome, but the more I do it the stronger I become.
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Excellent video and a great topic Dylan.
As you know I shoot a heavy longbow. But, I cannot do that without using it very regularly. I shoot it almost daily, usually for a couple of hours, shooting 40-50 shots.
If I have a long break, like a week or more, my shooting shows it. I need to shoot the big bow regularly as I can gain stamina, I can maintain stamina, but I cannot store stamina.
I'll often finish off my session with a dozen or 20 odd shots with a lighter bow of 65 or 55lb to "warm down"
My thoughts on being overbowed pretty much mirror those already mentioned above, mainly being in control of the shot and having good consistant back tension.
My 75 is my main hunting bow, so I practice with it, a lot. Because of that constant practice, I can pretty constantly put in good kill zone shots at hunting type ranges, from most hunting positions, from "cold" ie no warm-up shots.
But......if I was going to a shoot where I was needed to shoot say 100 odd arrows for a 2 hour competition, I'd be overbowed with my 75, I'd simply run out of "stamina" with that bow. In that scenario I'd be taking my 55lb'er for sure.
Hope that makes sense.
Like I said, excellent video and great topic. So thank you, I'm really enjoying this thread.
Well done.
Best
Lex
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Cheers Lex.
I think I'm working towards a similar philosophy, which is why I am excited for my new longbow to get here. I aim to be able to shoot my 65# bow at a weekend ABA shoot at some point and feel strong and confident with every shot. I'm nowhere near that stage at the moment but it's a good goal to work towards. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy shooting that bow within my means and then take my new longbow to shoots so I can enjoy everything that an ASL has to offer but not feel as though I have to fight with it towards the end of the shoot. Everything needs to be fun at the end of the day and shooting when I've run out of stamina (as you say) really isn't that much fun, mainly because that's when shots start going all over the place and I lose arrows!
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Oops, well maybe I spoke too soon, I think I might be a bit over-bowed with any/all of my bows today :biglaugh:
Took my Wife and kids Ten Pin Bowling this morning. Had a great time, until I somehow managed to tweak a muscle in my back.
Got home and it felt ok, so this afternoon I took my 75lb'er out for my regular session, but nope, it was not going to happen today. My back hurt just a bit too much with the 75 at full draw.
Tried the 55lb'er and it didn't hurt to draw at all, so I shot a dozen or so really good, fully controlled shots. My back wasn't giving me any pain, but I could definitely feel it wasn't quite right, so I decided to quit while I was ahead.
Going to be difficult, but I think I might actually give all the bows a rest for a few days, and give that tweaked muscle in my back a chance to come right. Might be a wise thing to do me thinks.
Hmmmm, contrary to popular belief, maybe I really am getting wiser as I get older........
Now that's scary.
Best
Lex
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It goes like that sometimes, mate!
Early last year when I was at one of the strongest points in my life I got an infection in my elbow and had to put the heavy bows down for a little bit. It took much longer to get back to where I was with my strength after that. Luckily I still had some other bows I could shoot.
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I enjoyed the video. I think your form is quite solid, at least by my definition. Your tone is friendly and helpful. I would definitely view other videos you make.
I have never hunted with a recurve, since 1968 that had a draw weight, at my 26" draw, (I'm only 5'6") greater than 51 pounds. Theses days I'm down to 44#s.
To build up or keep in bow drawing shape I draw, anchor, and hold without an arrow (and without releasing of course) for increasing amount of times until I can hold the draw much longer than the 3-5 seconds I'll hold when actually shooting. This prevents me from shooting arrows beyond the point of form-destroying fatigue. It also helps me focus on the process of shooting the bow (up to anchor/hold) without interference by results thinking.
BTW. Those bow cases that have curved ends are pretty cool! I've never seen anything like em.
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I had watched your video in the past and agree totally with you, it takes work to maintain the ability to shoot heavier bows and we have to be honest with ourselves . Thanks for posting that here
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Am I over-bowed, in a word no. Guess I feel I'm smart enough to know if it hurts, don't do it. I shot a 65 pound bow for awhile back in my younger days, My shoulder started to get sore so I asked myself why, I only hunted deer, antelope, and black bear, none of which required a heavy bow. I sold them and dropped down to the 45 to 50 pound range. Even less if I'm just shooting 3d. :banghead:
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Nice video bud. Your message is what many of us have been saying for years.... Shooting heavy bows takes work and commitment. Its not complicated... Carry on...
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As my whiskers started turning white I began dropping bow weight. Each new bow was 5lbs less. It was a gradual transformation that spanned thirty years. I dropped 20lbs of draw weight in that time. The five bows I currently own are 42#-44# at my draw. I'm shooting better than ever.
A man's got to know his limitations.
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I always judge max bow weight by what I cab draw and shoot while seated.
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Nice video! I’ve had to drop bow weight from mid sixties due to a severely arthritic shoulder. I switched to lefty and had a reverse shoulder replacement 2 years ago. I kept shooting lefty and now handle low 50’s but I had to really work at it. What type of bow case is that?
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Good video, Dylan.
For a newbie, holding weight at full draw is nothing short of Critical, and without very careful bow selection is one major reason why failure is almost guaranteed.
For the seasoned trad archer, if the required physicality is available, performance requires dedication. No dedication to performance typically segues into being overbowed. This is what I see happening to many trad archers as the years progress. That 65# stickbow that was once well under their control, is no longer, due to many reasons, but mainly loss of dedication. Dropping down in holding weight, and the fun reason for another bow acquisition, is a usual result. As long as the lethality of the kit (the bow and the arrows) mates the critters to be hunted, no problem.
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like them or not, super recurves have made all the difference for me. Price of course is a major factor, but time and extra projects fixed that.
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Sorry I haven't responded for a little bit. I've been away doing other things.
Thanks for all the kind words and thanks for taking an interest in the video. It's nice to see it is being taken in the context/perspective intended and discussing things. I've had people in other places want to criticise me for wanting to shoot a bow like that and I've found a lot of people on the internet want to judge very quickly rather than be curious and ask questions.
The bow cases I use are by an Australian brand but I believe there are some places to buy them over in America. If you are on Instagram look up someone called 'trad_bow_newbie' and there may be a discount code there. If you send Little Ax a message (his name is Anthony) he may be able to tell you where to buy them in America.
https://littleaxoutdoors.com/
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Great and helpful topic to discuss wish I knew going into trad archery years ago. Been shooting prob about 15 years now I’m a tall skinny guy not a ton of strength. I started with a bow in the low-mid 50’s thinking that’s not much. Long story short 15 years and probably 10 bows later I shoot a rig that’s perfect but it took so long to really figure out dropping a couple pounds at a time. Long story short super recurves have helped the guys like me shooting lower poundage hunting big bodied Midwest deer. I shoot a Morrison super curve [email protected] and it smokes a heavy arrow like my 50+ pound bows used to but I have all the control in the world to make good shots.
Shooting a heavy bow with bad form ripping arrows actually got so bad I developed all sorts of bad habits shooting right handed and even walked away from it all for about a year as I couldn’t make the shots hunting to be confident. I of course came back because all other gear leaves you sad and empty once you are in deep haha. I started shooting lighter bows left handed with proper form thanks to several good resources determined to relearn but the right way. 7 years later I’m shooting indoor leagues and making good clean kills with confidence 10 times that I ever had before. End of the day my point is I couldn’t do it with a bow that’s too much weight for me, we’re all different strength wise of course and that lines different for everyone but makes a huge difference.
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That's a massive wingspan you've got, mate.
Absolutely on the money. Shooting a bow that is 'too much' too often is usually going to lead to problems. Hence the video; I make a conscious effort to only shoot my heavier bows when I am in the right mindset and know I can complete my shot sequence permanently. Working at the outer edge of my limit isn't a problem when I know I'm there, but when I first started out and I just kept shooting how I thought I was supposed to saw me develop a few issues.
I don't know much about super curves but they certainly seem to be a comfortable way to shoot heavy arrows in hunting situations. I'll have to try one at some point but right now I'm finding the longbows to be the coolest.
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I think that the vast, larger percentage of trad archers are all capable of adding considerable holding weight to their current stickbows.
To do this properly requires a proper process .. and doing this properly requires dedication.
Once that heavier holding weight is attained, it also requires consistent "maintenance" - perhaps weekly practice at the least = dedication. Some have it, some don't. Not a good or bad thing, it is what it is and we all have choices.
There's nothing at all wrong with having the ability to absolutely control a 67lb holdiing weight stickbow during a hard hunt - that's to be admired, IMHO.
There is also absolutely nothing wrong with having the ability to perfectly control a 41lb holding weight stickbow during a hard hunt - whatever gets the job at hand well and ethically done, and critters in the freezer.
"Perfect control" and "consistent accuracy" is the name of the game.
:campfire:
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Good video.One of the common issues I see is when introducing archers transitioning from shooting high poundage compounds to traditional archery is the mindset that a heavy poundage bow is necessary.They buy a trad bow that's a struggle for them to draw and as a result are unable to learn the basic proper form required to shoot accurately.They then become frustrated and give up on it.
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Nice video indeed. I can still walk out and shoot my 64# MOAB cold without issue, but not my 70#er. Haven't shot the 70 in a couple of years so I'd need to work into it as I would be over bowed with her while hunting at this point. Been shooting since I was 8 and shot 70 - 80 for years and have been mostly shooting 60-70 the last 10 years, mostly 60.
Everyone is different, and one size doesn't fit all for sure.
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Great video. And this is a great thread. I enjoy shooting my heavier bow limbs, but it usually takes me a few weeks to build my strength back up after not shooting much through the winter. Even then... I think that 68# at my draw is probably the heaviest I will ever shoot. So many problems develop when overbowed, I've experienced it firsthand.
It would be interesting to see someone post a workout regimen (using a bow, but using workout equipment as well) that is specifically designed for getting one's self from "overbowed" to "bowed".
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Being a weak old woman, I work out with elastic bands year long, just so i can shoot my 38 pound bows. One thing that I wonder about is my arrow weight, I am told that they are from 430 to 440 grains. My husband made some fir arrows for a friend's 47 at his draw Robertson longbow. He was shooting cedar and aluminums before. "They fall out of the air like lead balloons", he said. When comparing them at 24 yards out back, we could see little, if any, difference. He still insisted that they were falling from the sky. Then a bow sight was taped onto his bow. He took careful aim while we checked his draw length. It took a few shot to get the sight on target. He shot really well with it. Guess what the difference was between the lighter aluminum arrows with the 4" feathers were to the fir arrows with big feathers at a little over 20 yards. None. Sometimes I wish that I would have worked harder on my strength when I was younger, but I am repeated told, "don't worry about it, if I was worried about it I would still be shooting the heavy bows myself." He can talk, he shoots 55 pound bows all day, while I can only take a few shots with my 42 pound bow.
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The perfect weight for me, because I shoot 300 arrows in a practice day , is 38-41 lbs,which also happens to be what a lot of trad target archers shoot. Get a highly reflexed or tip forward longbow. :archer2:
I'm sure 300 arrows a day is normal for a lot of people but I rarely shoot that much. Just the way I work I guess. I'm sure I could benefit from doing it but I like to keep my practice in small stints as I'm usually busy doing other interesting things like guitar playing or hunting.
I think that the vast, larger percentage of trad archers are all capable of adding considerable holding weight to their current stickbows.
To do this properly requires a proper process .. and doing this properly requires dedication.
Once that heavier holding weight is attained, it also requires consistent "maintenance" - perhaps weekly practice at the least = dedication. Some have it, some don't. Not a good or bad thing, it is what it is and we all have choices.
There's nothing at all wrong with having the ability to absolutely control a 67lb holdiing weight stickbow during a hard hunt - that's to be admired, IMHO.
There is also absolutely nothing wrong with having the ability to perfectly control a 41lb holding weight stickbow during a hard hunt - whatever gets the job at hand well and ethically done, and critters in the freezer.
"Perfect control" and "consistent accuracy" is the name of the game.
:campfire:
Dedication is the key I reckon, mate. Everyone has a threshold that they can reach when doing something casually (any hobby/interest is like this) and then to get to the 'next level' it requires dedication - mentally, physically, etc. It's like the strength training; everyone gets a little bit stronger fairly easily because they are honing their technique and spacing their workouts out nicely, but once they start to plateau, they need to really look at their diet and rest in order to keep making gains.
Good video.One of the common issues I see is when introducing archers transitioning from shooting high poundage compounds to traditional archery is the mindset that a heavy poundage bow is necessary.They buy a trad bow that's a struggle for them to draw and as a result are unable to learn the basic proper form required to shoot accurately.They then become frustrated and give up on it.
Absolutely, mate. It's hard to convince someone who shoots a 70# compound that a 45# traditional bow will be a decent workout to start with.
Nice video indeed. I can still walk out and shoot my 64# MOAB cold without issue, but not my 70#er. Haven't shot the 70 in a couple of years so I'd need to work into it as I would be over bowed with her while hunting at this point. Been shooting since I was 8 and shot 70 - 80 for years and have been mostly shooting 60-70 the last 10 years, mostly 60.
Everyone is different, and one size doesn't fit all for sure.
That's a lot of shooting with heavier bows mate but I guess doing it for so long just makes it part of your DNA.
Great video. And this is a great thread. I enjoy shooting my heavier bow limbs, but it usually takes me a few weeks to build my strength back up after not shooting much through the winter. Even then... I think that 68# at my draw is probably the heaviest I will ever shoot. So many problems develop when overbowed, I've experienced it firsthand.
It would be interesting to see someone post a workout regimen (using a bow, but using workout equipment as well) that is specifically designed for getting one's self from "overbowed" to "bowed".
I think I might include something like that in a follow up video of sorts, mate. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a gym junkie by any means, but the way I lift weights directly relates to archery. There are also lots of exercises you can do that specifically engage your back so you know what that feels like, which therefore makes it easier to find back tension and maintain that feel when you go to your bows.
Being a weak old woman, I work out with elastic bands year long, just so i can shoot my 38 pound bows. One thing that I wonder about is my arrow weight, I am told that they are from 430 to 440 grains. My husband made some fir arrows for a friend's 47 at his draw Robertson longbow. He was shooting cedar and aluminums before. "They fall out of the air like lead balloons", he said. When comparing them at 24 yards out back, we could see little, if any, difference. He still insisted that they were falling from the sky. Then a bow sight was taped onto his bow. He took careful aim while we checked his draw length. It took a few shot to get the sight on target. He shot really well with it. Guess what the difference was between the lighter aluminum arrows with the 4" feathers were to the fir arrows with big feathers at a little over 20 yards. None. Sometimes I wish that I would have worked harder on my strength when I was younger, but I am repeated told, "don't worry about it, if I was worried about it I would still be shooting the heavy bows myself." He can talk, he shoots 55 pound bows all day, while I can only take a few shots with my 42 pound bow.
I think the arrow weight plays a big role in how a bow feels when it's shot as well. I hear and see people getting put off by heavy bows because they think they kick or recoil. similar to rifle shooting - they lose confidence and get a bit scared. If the arrow is heavy enough however, the bows behave beautifully.
At the moment I have 600gn arrows for my 62# recurve and 650gn arrows for my 65# longbow. I may make up some arrows for my longbow soon that'll be a little lighter, which isn't desirable but it's what I happen to have on me at the moment. In the future there are some arrows I want to look into that may come to about 700gns and I think that would be fantastic in my 65# longbow.
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Well the best exercise for drawing a bow is drawing a bow. And draw it with both sides.
You can start out with 3 reps of 6 each side every other day so the body can rebuild on the off day. Then after a couple of weeks you might try 3 sets of 8, Then 4 sets of 8 a couple of weeks later. Also, then incorporate a slow let down for negative resistance strength.
Pretty simple.
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Well the best exercise for drawing a bow is drawing a bow. And draw it with both sides.
You can start out with 3 reps of 6 each side every other day so the body can rebuild on the off day. Then after a couple of weeks you might try 3 sets of 8, Then 4 sets of 8 a couple of weeks later. Also, then incorporate a slow let down for negative resistance strength.
Pretty simple.
My routine is pretty simple... 3 sets of 10 reps daily, each side. I remove my bow quiver so I can do it on both sides. I also measured a bare shaft and put a zip tie on the end right at the point where, when I hit full draw, the zip tie sticks out and hits my bow hand. That helps my muscle memory to "feel" the point of full draw, and not draw short nor over. But I'd be interested in an archer's proven way to work the back and shoulders with upright rows, bent rows, lat pull-downs, pull-ups, etc., that would specifically help round out the drawing muscles for the string hand side, and the pushing muscles of the bow-hand side. I already work out in my basement with the basic push-ups, curls, etc., but I'm always looking to learn more.
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Absolutely fellas, BUT, I have seen a lot of newbies go to draw a bow using their shoulders and their understanding of how to use or activate their back muscles is severely lacking. Of course, with a light enough bow this can be taught, but various cable and rowing exercises in the gym can be a really good way to have them squeeze the right parts of their back and start becoming familiar.
Besides that, there is the obvious idea of getting stronger in your back/chest/shoulder/core in the gym so lots of things in life are easier - drawing a bow, splitting firewood, etc.
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Correct Wilderlife, you need to learn to draw properly with your back and proper alignment. There is a lot of info on this on the Shooters Forum's form clock thread stickied at the top.
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=109531.0
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That thread is great. Funny it also shows how much tech has changed since 2007. I know that there was much better ways for some people to do 'graphic' stuff, but us average Joes made it work with the simple 'paint' feature. :biglaugh:
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I think the more information there is out there about finding good back tension and maintaining it, the fewer little problems and niggles people would experience.
It's almost like considering your entire back as a trigger mechanism or something. When you get into it properly and you let an arrow go there is a very big light bulb moment; at least there was for me.
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The one thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is the vast difference there is getting a clean release consistently with heavier draw weight bows.
I started out pretty heavy and really had some bad habits to break after I started seriously getting into proper form. At that point I went way down in draw weight and started really concentrating on back tension , alignment, and follow through.
My draw length went from 28” to 30” by the time I got it down. Of course then I had my 60# bows jump up to 66-67# at 30” and I could not shoot them very much at all and keep my form. It took a lot of work and a lot of practice holding and expanding my shot with the heavier draw weight…… but the one thing I figured out, was shooting light weight target bows require serious attention to your release. It was a lot tougher getting off the string clean consistently with a 40# target bow than a 55-60# bow….. I just flat out shoot better with a bit more draw weight….. going to a tab helped my consistency issue with lighter weight target bows, but my target bow weight is 49#, not 40#, and there is a difference to me. I settled into about 57# at age 60 for hunting, and do not shoot as much as I used to. So I start out in spring with my lighter weight bow and get some exercise in before shooting my hunting rig much. By July , I rarely touch the target bow, and shoot 3D , and just practice with my hunting rig.
During hunting season I practice with 2 well placed arrows a day…. One at sunrise…. One at sunset…. Religiously…….Slow smooth draw, and it’s in the 10 ring. ….. it’s that fist arrow that counts while hunting, and that method has worked well for me.
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First thing I always ask , is there a profit to be had ,in higher weight bows,yes there is judging from used bow sales. Higher weight bows are harder to sale and 40 pounders are a rare find. Arrows from higher weight bows are easier broken and lost which require replacement. How many us have heavy bows we seldom shoot and reach for the lower weight. The last bow I would sale is a lower weight. As I age I know it will always be there to use and easier for children,grand children, and friends to use . Surgeons love money from rotator cuff thinning and injury. But I do admire the rare genetic beast that can shoot heavy bows undamaged after 4 decades of millions of shots, seriously.Weight has always been a can of worms. :archer2:
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LOL. More injuries to rotator cuff from repetetive stress injury than shooting heavy bows. I am curious why someone would think that arrows are necessarily broken more with a heavier bow. If built correctly, they are also correspondingly stronger. Any real evidence to these claims, or just more justifying people shooting what they choose too?
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The last three responses have been great; thanks!
They are starting to go into different territory that the video intended. Remember, I made the video about being overbowed, mainly to explore ideas of what that actually means, and to maybe get people to think more about what that means. As I state, some people have told me that if I can't shoot a bow all day at a tournament I'm overbowed and I think that's wrong. If I can pick a bow up and shoot it confidently a couple dozen times and set it down when I am getting tired (and know it!) that's plenty for hunting situations, provided I'm accurate enough and can handle full draw OK.
The discussion looks to now be moving towards "why you SHOULD want to shoot a heavy bow", or "why shooting a heavy bow can be good", and I'm perfectly happy to go down that rabbit hole and potentially even make a follow up video going in that direction, but I need to get a few more animals under my belt first in order to take myself seriously.
The clean release thing - absolutely! I've had bows I pull around 32# with and the release has been much more critical, in a bad way. Still, those bows were very useful for working on other aspects of my form.
Regarding hunting, it's very difficult to say more is not better (most of the time) as long as we are considering everything else - can you shoot the bow OK, are your arrows tuned, are your broadheads sharp, etc. I think it's very difficult to claim that more poundage ISN'T better when every thing else is considered equal, including the ability of the archer.
We do a lot of culling with rifles down this way and people like to say something to the effect of "you can't get more dead than dead". There are trends that move towards using lighter rifles for a lot of culling, and when shooting from a vehicle under the spotlight it's very easy to place bullets in the head of animals so there isn't much need for a rifle bigger than a .223. Having said that, for a lot of culling/hunting where someone is on their feet, the biggest rifle you can shoot comfortably is more desirable as it obviously leaves much less room for error, BUT, when shooting like this down here we aren't using anywhere near as much of the meat as you'd imagine. My reason for bringing this up is that you can have a similar idea with archery but there are still some differences.
I shoot a .300WM in many hunting situations and if I'm after a really big trophy I often take that rifle as I know it has more than enough power. If I'm after meat, I usually take something smaller because a smaller rifle will usually damage far less meat (as long as comparisons between shot placement are realistic). With a heavy bow though, unless we're talking about busting bones, the wound and wound channel are going to be much more similar to that of a lighter bow. We could also argue that the chance of a pass through with a higher bow is great. That doesn't mean that you can't get pass throughs with a lighter bow obviously, but it's a reasonable assumption to make.
Anyway, I apologise for banging on about rifles on the forum but I'm always fascinated by this type of discussion because there is the crowd who love to use lighter gear and still get it done, and then there is the crowd who go as big as they can because it leaves more room for error. If we have a talk about advantages of heavier bows or I make a video about the same topic, that's the sort of approach I may take.
Cheers.
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I can comment on bow power concerning deer ribs. My husband shot a buck a few years back with a 50 at his 26+ draw. The very worn Hill with his serrations at 40 or more yards cut flat and center through a rib without breaking the rib and 3/4 of a rib on the exit, without breaking the rib. The arrow shattered glancing off of a small tree, the buck ran less than 60 yards and went down. The blood trail was extreme. He used to hunt with nothing less than 64 pounds and often much more, but eventually he was paying a physical price for shooting the heavy bows as much as he likes to shoot. He always claimed if you can control a 100 pound bow you should hunt with a 70. He could pull two 70 pounds bows back to full draw as often as he wanted, kind of hurt the bow hand with two longbows in one hand. He now does two 55 pound bows at the same time. I can shoot a 38 pound bow for hours, but i cannot shoot a 42 pound bow more than 4 shots and get to anchor. Deer are not that tough and I do not want to hit them in the shoulder bones, so I stick with what I am most accurate with..
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Pretty sure he told me his fingers couldn’t hold up to the heavy weights, but his shoulders were fine. At least that is how I remember it.
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This is very subjective because it's not impossible for someone to train and get stronger to be able to handle a higher weight. Of course, this becomes harder as years progress but not impossible. I train and run endurace races and I apply the same training for my archery practice and so far I am able to shoot bows in higher weight, but I also control my archery practice. In other words, I am not going to overshoot a heavy bow because of my ego.
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I can pretty easily shoot much heavier than I do, but I like being able to absolutely dominate the bow I’m shooting. I can shoot it more accurately and hold at full draw longer if needed. This season I had to hold at full draw for 17 seconds to kill my buck. At my max weight, I wouldn’t have been able to do that.
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Yeah, I'm over bowed at 75#s, so that's why I shoot 65 to 70#s. Nice post Wilder.
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LOL. More injuries to rotator cuff from repetetive stress injury than shooting heavy bows. I am curious why someone would think that arrows are necessarily broken more with a heavier bow. If built correctly, they are also correspondingly stronger. Any real evidence to these claims, or just more justifying people shooting what they choose too?
Nice post also, they won't answer because they have no evidence. As you said, they just justify. Most injuries claimed to be from shooting a bow are bogus, they are derived from other issues or injuries from earlier in life, and/or they have no clue on how to draw a bow correctly. If they did, their would be no shoulder injuries as the shoulder is NOT involved! Many people tell on themselves when they make that claim.
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Yes, I see that a little bit in my circles.
One bloke at my local club is in his mid 70's and he's fairly busted up. A beautiful person and a great hunter. I think between him and his wife they've killed over 1400 foxes with bows and arrows here, which is a monumental achievement.
He tells me things, more out of concern for me than wanting to lecture me, about how "walking around with a heavy backpack ruined my hips" and "trying to shoot heavy bows ruined my shoulders".
I have enormous respect for him so I just listen to him and enjoy the interaction, but I haven't the heart to say "a modern back with an internal frame and belt/harness distributes the weight very differently to your old bags with no belt", or "well every time i watch you draw your bow your back doesn't move and your elbow is way outside the string".
Point being, if you use your back rather than your shoulder to draw your bow, regardless of the weight, it's very hard to injure your shoulders!
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Full anchor, any position, no change in hold duration, clean release (more or less). Thats how I determine if my bow is too heavy. I like to hold my draw, wait wait wait, release. I can tell right away if I cannot settle into anchor from a heavier bow. Does not "feel" right.
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Years ago Hill Archery had an ad showing Hill, I believe it was Dick Garver and Ted Ekin on each side, drawing bows. A chiropractor discussed Hill's form being more ergonomic, since he had shot many more arrows from much heavier bows without injury, while the other two in the photo had chronic injuries. Jamming and torquing joints can cause injury no matter what the weight of the bow. Other than straining a draw finger while doing a long hold with a 96 pound bow, I have never had an archery injury. Wrestling with with my motorcycle that got tangled up with a falling bicycle in my garage, that cannot be done bone on bone or with proper Hill form. Yep, I got hurt, but I did not drop the BMW.
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https://imgur.com/a/vig7RgZ
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Check the form clock thread on the shooters forum... Hill's form mimics the form clock... shown in the video.
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I agree, the only real difference is the wrist and bow arm from a pistol grip, which is the natural thing to do with a straight grip bow. Some longbow shooters get into an over leaning over slumping posture, and end up looking like they are about ready to jump into a gopher hole. Hill had a more erect spine than what some interpret, but he did not lock his neck back or allow his shoulders to ramp up into the neck, (which was me with my first target shooting form) and also allowed a natural cant of the bow that put his eye more over the arrow without strain. A smart way to get stronger and to preserve the joints, some will get it others will deny it.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/dfRmwzy6YMBV/
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Here you go.
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=121915.0
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Those who claim the shoulder isn't involved in the draw are incorrect. Maybe you aren't using the whole shoulder muscular set to do the heavy part of the drawing but in the beginning of the draw you are putting a substantial load on the shoulder and engaging the ball into the socket, wear from the rotation with weight on it etc. My orthopedic surgeon is a specialist in shoulders, reworked both of mine and being an archer himself made sure I had a therapist who understood the needs of my shoulders for archery.
He did note though that a proper draw sequence saves the wear and tear.
Right now he is wanting to grind out a bone spur that pinches my AC joint every time l draw or reach across my body to pull cable, piping etc.
Personally both of my shoulders were injured at work/play and not archery however once any part of of you is injured, repaired or not, it will never be 100% and the chances of you developing arthritis or degenerative issues increase exponentially.
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Of course the shoulder is involved mate. Certainly at the start, but beyond that the shoulder is relied upon more for your mobility and rotation. You still need to look after your shoulders when we are talking about archery and this is more to do with being able to remain mobile with them. As you said, an injured shoulder through something unrelated to archery is still going to give you problems when drawing a bow, but if you rely on your shoulders to pull your bow back - of pretty well any draw weight - it'll lead to problems.
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Been shooting since I was 8, mostly 70-80# for years and years and years.... I'm now 57 and still shooting 60 walking out the doors cold.... ALL DAY LONG.
No shoulder issues, no issues what so ever from drawing a bow correctly, none, zero, nada.
I do NOT use my shoulder to draw the bow, nor do I 'muscle' the bow in any way. IF IF IF, you claim injury to shooting a bow, you are drawing it WRONG! End of story.
My surgeon has no clue how to draw a bow either, and my washing machine repair man has no clue how to do surgery. But they both play each other on TV.
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My surgeon has no clue how to draw a bow either, and my washing machine repair man has no clue how to do surgery. But they both play each other on TV.
OMG you are killing me !!!!
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https://accubow.com/Meet-Your-Muscles-What-You-Use-In-Archery_b_9.html
I'm not saying you'll injure the shoulder drawing a bow but any repetitive motion can cause issues and if you don't think your shoulder is involved tear your rotator cuff at work then go home and shoot your bow. Even if it is on the bow hand shoulder picking up and holding good form is nearly impossible without significant discomfort. I shot my compound bow through both injuries until surgery. But had to adjust to accommodate the non working shoulder and cringe with the pain when the shoulder fell out of the socket on the shot. I still filled my tags then had surgery to repair them. That was 2009 (L) and 2012 (R). Getting back to being able to shoot my bows after months of painful rehab taught me lessons on why not to do that again.
That said today I can still draw and shoot 65lbs. I just won't when 55lbs shoots through anything I hunt.
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That said every individual wears different. I'm bone on bone in my right knee but my friend one year younger still runs half marathons. I hate climbing stairs and ladders.
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/quote] Any repetitive motion can cause issues
[/quote]
Cook, why don't I have sex injuries then? :biglaugh:
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Too damn funny!!!!
Some folks just won't admit their own failures :knothead:
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Cook... bring your cylinder blocks to Laredo :goldtooth:
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I agree! Too damn funny!
Cook, are you saying you shot a bow for 8 hours a day for ten years?
Its on the internet so it must be true :laughing: :laughing: :thumbsup:
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Way back in the 70s John Schulz told me that it was impossible to shoot 1000 arrows in one day, so one day I did it. Back quiver stuffed full of arrows, a four foot Saunders mat and a 6 foot stack of bread tie bales, 20 yards apart. I had to take breaks, but starting early one Saturday morning and stubbornly finishing at sunset to reach the thousand count. What I learned was, one can really get stiff and sore from shooting arrows all day, I should have done it with a light weight bow, but then I would have never learned how stiff and sore one can get by shooting a bow all day.
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Doesn't take me 1,000 arrows, just 8-10 dozen in a couple hours!!! With my hunting bows.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :o
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Cook... bring your cylinder blocks to Laredo :goldtooth:
Lol. I can't afford my broadhead habit as it is.
But I sure am enjoying y'all's success and stories!
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I've been shooting longbows for decades. I'm 71. I started with mid fifties draw weight and I still shoot those weights. I workout five days a week and understand the importance or connective tissue, skeletal muscle, and the potential for overuse/repetitive use injuries.
If you're going to enjoy shooting a bow for a lifetime you absolutely have to take good care of yourself. If you don't you're going to end up shooting a kids bow or no bow at all.
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Man guys like you and Ronnie Newell are my heroes.
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Great stuff as always Rob and T.
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All in good fun, I love archery and the crew here. :campfire:
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Thanks for keeping up the good chat in here! I've been out bush for a week so haven't had the chance to read it all.
Came back and shot my bows a bit and still feel pretty good. Get tired a little quicker than before but I think in general, over the last 12 months I've had more steps forward than I've had backwards.
Now that life has slowed down (a tad) I'm going to work on my strength and fitness a lot and go into the 2022 fallow rut with more confidence than ever before!
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Part Time..... good name...real good. :goldtooth:
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Hey Part Timer, I surely hope you are joking because if not your are being severely wreckless and are clueless. Your comments about lifting weights with good form and regiment is as prone to injurie as someone who walks in and randomly starts slinging weights around is a complete falsehood.
That dog won't hunt. :nono:
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I injured myself twice, working out so I could handle bows 80 to 100 pounds. One year I seriously tore a muscle in my arm and was forced to kill my deer with a 37 pound longbow. i never seriously injured myself shooting those heavy bows, except for a finger injury that ended the heavy bow use for me. i did find that there is a considerable learning curve when dropping down in bow weights. Byron Fergusson said in a note to me that if he could drop down to a lighter bow for his demonstrations he would. When one can control a heavy bow, believe it or not, there are accuracy advantages. At 70 I can still shoot a 90 pound bow, but my fingers don't like it. I will stick to under 60 pounds, mid 50s that can be shot all day is plenty good for what I hunt.
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Looks like part time is a fictional character.
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It has always bothered me when those that could not shoot heavy bows felt belittled. Absolutely nothing wrong with a 40 pound bow that you can be accurate with for deer hunting. Just pick a broad head and arrow that can utilize the cast of the bow.
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It can go both ways I guess. I would personally never belittle anyone for the bow they shoot; this is all supposed to be fun at the end of the day.
Having said that, in my limited experience I've seen just as much flack sent towards people who shoot heavy bows for supposedly being driven by big ego and being macho, as I have sent to people who shoot lighter bows for supposedly being irresponsible and unethical because they don't have enough power (in the eyes of some).
It's difficult to ignore how much crap is out there sometimes.
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What he said^^^^^
Not sure how ANYONE could not miss that going both ways.
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Part of my motivation for this thread and the video, to be honest. Anyone who knows me personally knows I'm not driven by anything to do with ego. Every time someone wants to accuse me of shooting a big bow to impress others I mostly laugh, but a small part of me wants to engage in a conversation to see why the hell it matters to them anyway?
It's just too easy to sit behind a computer and throw comments at people and not take the time to understand. If anyone who told me I was a wanker for shooting heavy (ish) bows actually spent any time understanding just how much time I invest in my physical wellbeing and my archery they'd have a better idea.
Same as someone who shoots a lighter bow. What if they had a horrible accident and they can't pull a heavier bow?
It's like anything. If it's legal and reasonable to assume the person is conducting themselves ethically and with integrity, have at it.
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I don't understand why anyone even worries about what anyone else shoots for weight . I shoot what I can shoot well (well ,as well as possible) when I'm cold . It's 47@28 if anyone cares. 45 years of concrete and steel has not been good for my structure.
Rock on and shoot whatever you shoot well and don't worry about the other guy! :thumbsup:
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My replies were erased like one without explanation. :dunno:
At the very bottom of the page is a user agreement section which you signed off on when you joined.. I suggest you read it over.
Here is a part of it.
TradGang.com is 100% totally devoted to traditional bowhunting. The 3 goals of Tradgang.com are as follows ...
1. To offer a free public access website for those that love the sport of hunting with traditional archery equipment - i.e., selfbows, longbows, and recurves.
2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting.
3. To offer methods of sharing contact information and site links for traditional archery manufacturers, vendors, services and organizations - good folks that have their hearts and souls poured into the sport.
Expect to be respected if you decide to join the gang, because the rule of respect is held highest of the few rules that apply. Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone in the gang. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion.
"We do not allow negative or "bashing" public topics or posts of any kind or manner. This applies to EVERYTHING, from people to commercial vendors, products or services."
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I could care less what weight a guy shoots.
It's better a guy hunts with a weight he can handle accurately than try to hunt with too much weight and wound an animal.
I'm an old fart and 40 # is what I shoot when hunting.
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It always amazes me that this discussion over draw weight is never put to rest. It is pretty simple - some like heavy bows while some prefer lighter draw weights. It doesn't matter what a person's rationale happens to be, it is simply his choice. Most tend to accept this, but the discussion should simply go away. Not because some rule says it is inappropriate, but because we recognize and support an individual's choice. Personal choice balanced by personal ethics are the only relevant factors, at least in my opinion.
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Part of my motivation for this thread and the video, to be honest. Anyone who knows me personally knows I'm not driven by anything to do with ego. Every time someone wants to accuse me of shooting a big bow to impress others I mostly laugh, but a small part of me wants to engage in a conversation to see why the hell it matters to them anyway?
It's just too easy to sit behind a computer and throw comments at people and not take the time to understand. If anyone who told me I was a wanker for shooting heavy (ish) bows actually spent any time understanding just how much time I invest in my physical wellbeing and my archery they'd have a better idea.
Same as someone who shoots a lighter bow. What if they had a horrible accident and they can't pull a heavier bow?
It's like anything. If it's legal and reasonable to assume the person is conducting themselves ethically and with integrity, have at it.
I don't disagree but I know a person or two who are over bowed. It causes them to shoot less accurately/consistent than they are capable of and I'm not the only person who has seen and mentioned it regarding those people.
And it matters not when it is an inanimate target we shoot at.
When it is an animal, it matters. Too much or too little it matters.
Where that line is we should all strive to be honest with ourselves.
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I could care less what weight a guy shoots.
It's better a guy hunts with a weight he can handle accurately than try to hunt with too much weight and wound an animal.
I'm an old fart and 40 # is what I shoot when hunting.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^