Post by: Mike L. on August 23, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
Post by: Flem on August 23, 2021, 02:01:18 PM
Check to see what other bowyers who are making the same style are getting for their bows and go from there.
Post by: Mike L. on August 23, 2021, 02:19:23 PM
Post by: mmattockx on August 23, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Forget time and effort, it's what the market will bear.
:thumbsup:
Here's a man who understands how markets work.
Mark
Post by: kennym on August 23, 2021, 03:04:43 PM
Which is cheap for a custom , check some base model prices and go from there . You won’t be able to price like Widow for example for awhile but don’t sell yourself short either .
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 23, 2021, 04:21:15 PM
Dave.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on August 23, 2021, 09:40:11 PM
Post by: KenH on August 23, 2021, 10:38:14 PM
Overhead includes quart cans of EA-40, lots of sandpaper and belts, saw blades, and "keepin' Momma happy"!
Post by: Flem on August 23, 2021, 11:21:31 PM
His friend at work might be asking because he wants to make sure Mike does not sell himself short. Conversely he could be a cheap S.O.B. Only Mike knows. ;)
Post by: Roy from Pa on August 24, 2021, 04:56:49 AM
Then the word spread and I had 6 guys wanting a bow one fall.
My hobby turned into a job and it wasn't fun anymore.
I didn't have time to make myself a bow for 3 years.
That's when I stopped selling bows.
The choice is yours on what to charge.
But charge enough to cover your materials and time and some profits.
And then you have liability insurance to worry about if one of your bows break and someone gets hurt!
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 08:41:24 AM
I changed my price to $300, if they wanted snake skins I charged the actual price of the skin and $50 to put them on.
The is a lot more work in a selfbow than a glass bow, I cut the tree and started from there. In spite of all the work I never changed my price structure even though I could have as my bows became more desirable. At my peak I was making 15 bows a year and turning down 12 people a month who wanted my bows.
All the logging, drawknifing and inhaling osage dust takes a toll on your body over time so I finally decided to donate a bow or two a year to charity and let it go at that. I might make one or two bows a year now.
Having seen a bunch of guys selling bows that were of dubious quality I would access the overall fit, finish and performance of your bows honestly and set the price accordingly. Your stated price sounds about right to me for a beginning bowyer.
Post by: Flem on August 24, 2021, 10:32:05 AM
Thats a broad and situationally inaccurate statement. Possibly more skill, but not a "lot more work"
Some glass bowyers actually harvest their own products, make their own laminates, spend many hours milling wood, additional hours shaping wood and glass and finally many hours prepping for finish, finishing and rubbing out.
Having made numerous self bows and glass bows, I can state from my own perspective, a glass bow is more work, but easier to get a salable product from than a self bow.
Post by: Roy from Pa on August 24, 2021, 10:36:35 AM
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 11:22:37 AM
Here you go Flem, done this lately for a glass bow? The tractor is a new convenience, the logs shown are the only ones I ever hauled out with it, everything else came out of the woods end over end or on my shoulders. The osage trees I could drive up to were few and far between.
I have gathered around 300 staves and made 158 bows out of them so far, am done with osage harvesting, I have 2 lifetimes worth stockpiled.
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 11:36:01 AM
Then there is curing, layout, heat straightening and untwisting( I always have to heat straighten) that may take a day or more, often a lot more for all the sessions.
And finally you get to tiller, this usually takes me a week of shooting, tweaking, shooting and more tweaking before I feel the bow is shot in and ready to have the finish applied, this takes a few more days to apply all the coats and let them dry.
I don't just make a bow, I make one someone can win big tournaments with, this process is labor intensive.
Post by: Flem on August 24, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
How about all the time. No tractor. Humped out of the forest on a hiking trail.
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Eric, have you ever made a glass bow?
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 12:00:41 PM
I work exclusively with osage, I cut hickory for my students to learn on.
Ever cut any osage?
Do you turn that yew into lams?
Post by: Flem on August 24, 2021, 12:16:40 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 12:31:35 PM
Back years ago I went osage cutting and gathering crazy, this was my back yard at the time and when I learned not to cut more osage than you could handle in a reasonable length of time. i worked for a month pealing this stuff with a draw knife and only got through half of it, my hands looked like swollen sausages from all the drawknifing. What I didn't get to ( I was working full time at the power plant) sat in the sun twisted like pretzels and ruined. Only part of the osage in my back yard is showing in the picture.
I took this gag picture titled "you swing the sledge splitting osage until you pass out, when you come to, resume the splitting".
Back then I split every log with a sledge and wedges, it wasn't unusual to wale away on a log for over an hour making that first split, subsequent splits went better, a log that split easily and cleanly was a rarity. later I wised up and made that first split with a chainsaw.
Post by: Roy from Pa on August 24, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Yew wood is light as a feather to carry out:)
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Post by: Flem on August 24, 2021, 01:03:18 PM
This has given me some ideas though. Like we should have a Bowyers Olympics! Think about all the fun events. The log hump with increasing weight and distance. The duel; who ever could craft a bow, string and arrows and shoot their competitor the fastest. Etc,etc Eddless possibilities
Post by: Roy from Pa on August 24, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
:laughing:
Post by: kennym on August 24, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 24, 2021, 07:33:36 PM
Post by: Mike L. on August 29, 2021, 05:02:35 PM
He didn’t ask for the cost list, I just totaled it up; I did that with the other guy too, cause he wanted a trad bow but money was tight.
I got the impression he was worried about short changing me, and I’m worried he’ll be surprised at how much it costs. Cost never put me off a bow I wanted, though, and the one he took to his son’s archery camp was a big hit. The instructor shot it and was impressed with it, which was a good feeling, cause I thought it felt pretty good, but it’s nice to have someone else verify it.
Incidentally, is that a serious risk, being sued if it breaks? I don’t think it would happen, but would you guys recommend having an attorney write up some kind of liability agreement? Maybe not this one but if I start selling to strangers? Stranger danger clause. lol
Post by: Mad Max on August 29, 2021, 07:52:01 PM
Post by: Bowjunkie on September 01, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
I can't say which is easier to put up, selfbow wood or glass bow wood because it depends a lot more on the tree and location than what type of bow it will be used for. Selfbow and backing wood can be 'easy' if it has easy access, a tractor loads it onto my trailer, and my buddy's skid loader unloads it onto his sawmill, he cuts it up, then loads it back onto my trailer. There's been a few times putting up selfbow wood has been super easy, relatively speaking... not that I'm either complaining or ungrateful because I've really busted my butt plenty of times getting wood home and put up.
Sure, buying ground lams and riser wood from a supplier and assembling a glass bow is 'easier', but not if you do every bit of the tree cutting and seasoning yourself, by hand. I know others who do it too. I've checked the man hours in various types of bows when I do all the work myself(except making fiberglass) and there can be practically no time difference between selfbows and glass bows. Actually, it depends more on each bow as an individual.
Heck, plenty of times when I bring a big osage, mulberry, ironwood, cherry, etc tree home, it ends up being used in a wide variety of bow types... selfbows, backed bows, glass/wood lam bows, etc... all from the same log.
A couple weeks ago I brought that giant mulberry log home, that was a rough one. That one hurt.
Just yesterday I looked at a big triple trunk black cherry tree that blew down at my mother's place. There's glass bows in it, and some trilam material... it's going to be a ton of work too, but I don't mind. I like black cherry under clear glass. An underrated wood imo. I'll get going on that thing as soon as it quits raining and dries up a little.
People have no idea what some of us go through or spend to have good, seasoned bow wood to work with... regardless of the kind of bows that result. I wouldn't answer a question like "how much does the material cost?".
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 02, 2021, 11:06:18 AM
Quote
From Bowjunkie-I agree with Flem
Well that's your first mistake:)
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wavey:
Post by: Flem on September 03, 2021, 09:16:20 AM
QuoteFrom Bowjunkie-I agree with Flem
Well that's your first mistake:)
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wavey:
Hey, at least somebody here has some cojones :laugh:
Post by: Bowjunkie on September 03, 2021, 12:34:36 PM
I started cutting that cherry tree yesterday. Cut right into a nest of pine squirrels in a hollow spot in a big branch. Cut one squirrel in half, and his two siblings hit the ground and crawled away. They seemed about 3/4 grown and uninjured from what I could tell. What a way to go. I felt bad. I hope the other two make it ok.
Post by: Eric Krewson on September 04, 2021, 09:17:58 AM
A friend with a sawmill graciously cut it up for me.
It looked like great stuff.
It was hot day so I watered the slabs down and covered them with wet leaves to stop them from checking.
The next day I pulled out a slab to seal it and found the wood was like a sieve, the water had run through tiny lightning caused fissures in the wood and out the other side. It was like a bomb had gone off in the wood, it wasn't useable and became firewood.
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 04, 2021, 11:41:37 AM