Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Balding Kansan on August 21, 2021, 11:16:38 PM
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Gents - I’m planning to build a TD recurve. I’ve got a handful of self bows under my belt. It’ll be my first glass bow. I know, I shouldn’t start with this but it’ll be ok, I’ve got it pretty well worked out in my head. Spent a couple weeks discussing the materials with Kenny M. and he was very helpful during the process without me having a plan. Other than Kenny’s experience, I’m flying blind here. Stopped by my dads today and traced out 3 of his recurves on some Masonite to get a general idea. 1 is a fedora, another a lost nation, and the last is a bear Kodiak. Just to get a general idea. Anyway, I started my riser layout. I ended up with 25 degree limb pads. The Limb tips are inline with the deepest part of the grip. I obtained my curves by taking a limb off an old target recurve I had a baling wired it up reverse to a steeper curve (don’t laugh we use wire for everything here). So there’s the backstory. I will post pictures along the way. Maybe it will help somebody else out from start to finish. If you see me doing something stupid or have a better idea, please let me know. At this point, with what I have sketched out, I’m worried I’ll have a really high brace height with 25 degree pads, didn’t sound right. Any input is appreciated, this will take awhile. I don’t have forms made yet and need to acquire a belt sander. The plan is to be shooting it by Oct and comfortable shooting it by peak deer season.
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Sorry I did t get this info to you sooner! The recurve I have had a 19’ riser pad angle
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I think your pad angle can be flatter with that limb or more setback on your limb. And dont use too much working limb. Use stable core. And under 40 lb. you may want no forward taper.
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Ok. So flatten the pads out a little.
I don’t have stabilcore so should I make the limbs less aggressive?
Also, am I correct in thinking that the more I keep the limb tips behind the handle the more stable it will be? With the trade off being lost performance?
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I wouldn't move the nocks behind the riser back. You need some preload to help performance and make it quieter. It's a balancing act...
I have stabilcore, but you would need to reduce thickness by .015 or end up heavy(which can happen anyway on a first bow guess)
If you want it, I can make a set of lams that much thinner .
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Depends of course on design, but on my take down recurves the the string nocks are 1,5 inches in front of back of handle. That is making a straight line between nocks. 62 inch recurve.
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Like this
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This is all good stuff guys, thanks a lot!
I’m back to the drawing board this morning with these pointers.
Lemme ask you guys this, is the stabilcore for torsional stability? If I don’t use it, would I need to make some more gentle hooks? How did the bowyers of the past get around this? Wider limbs?
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Yes on the s core , but there were a lot of them built before they made it...
Is that your curve in second pic?
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I see. The 2nd picture is an old target recurve limb that I pulled into a steeper recurve with some wire. Just to trace and get some ideas.
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Here’s attempt #2. The white block is the same measurements of my riser block.
20 degree pads. Knocks are 1 1/2” beyond the back. Bue’s limb shape is flatter leading up to the hooks, mine somewhat hook the whole way. Not sure if this is good or bad.
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I can't answer that, hope some recurvists will come along!!
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how long is it going to be from nock to nock?
how long is the riser going to be?
how long from the end of the riser is the wedge going to extend?
Buemakers bow looks like a 1950's style recurve. that's a good thing :thumbsup: no stable kore back then--1-3/4" wide glass
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There’s ya some help , finally back home?
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how long is it going to be from nock to nock?
how long is the riser going to be?
how long from the end of the riser is the wedge going to extend?
Buemakers bow looks like a 1950's style recurve. that's a good thing :thumbsup: no stable kore back then--1-3/4" wide glass
Nock to nock is 59 1/2”. I came up with this because I’m aiming for 64”. A fedora recurve I was studying is 62” and it measures 57 1/2” Nock to nock, so I added an inch to each end.
The riser is 19” long
I was planning on 3” of bearing surface on the limb pads. Kenny cut the wedges at 10”, so I guess I would have 7” hanging out past the riser end.
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How are you measuring the nock to nock? Unbraced or Braced?
like this <-----------------------> or along the back of the bow
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How are you measuring the nock to nock? Unbraced or Braced?
like this <-----------------------> or along the back of the bow
Unbraced. Straight shot across. Not following contours. Thanks!
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#2 looks pretty good.
Edit 19" riser with 18 degree pads, 3-1/2" of taper (0 to 1/4" thick in 3" on the butt wedge) will be a good bow.
Make your pads 4" long, the rest of the wedge is scrap to cut off later.
18" of working limb from the nock to the end of the wedge fade, is good too.
For 1-3/4" glass go to 1-5/8" wide (or even full width 1-3/4") out to 8" from the nock, taper that 8" down to 5/8" wide, NO tip wedge.
Full width may be better to keep down on limb twist. :thumbsup:
You need that 18 degree to make the tips open up at full draw.
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#2 looks pretty good.
Edit 19" riser with 18 degree pads, 3-1/2" of taper (0 to 1/4" thick in 3" on the butt wedge) will be a good bow.
Make your pads 4" long, the rest of the wedge is scrap to cut off later.
18" of working limb from the nock to the end of the wedge fade, is good too.
For 1-3/4" glass go to 1-5/8" wide (or even full width 1-3/4") out to 8" from the nock, taper that 8" down to 5/8" wide, NO tip wedge.
Full width may be better to keep down on limb twist. :thumbsup:
You need that 18 degree to make the tips open up at full draw.
Thanks a bunch. I’ll redraw.
You lost me just a little though. So the wedge will be 7 1/2” long? 4” on the pad and 3 1/2” tapered down to nothing hanging off of the pad?
I need to start getting some stuff ordered. Hose plugs from big Jim and a belt sander. I was looking at the rigid belt/spindle sander, but if I ever wanted to pattern sand, how would that work if it’s oscillating?
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Thanks a bunch. I’ll redraw.
You lost me just a little though. So the wedge will be 7 1/2” long? 4” on the pad and 3 1/2” tapered down to nothing hanging off of the pad?
Yes :thumbsup:
leave it long 8-1/2" so you can pin them together, we will go over that later
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But the 10.25" wedge has a 2.75" flat on the butt for the bolt. so that will cut off if you make it 8.25"
We just went with Binghams design, but if it changes, I'd be happy to make different wedges...
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How thick is it kenny?
7.5" of taper on the wedge?
May have to make new ones
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.375x1.75 x10.25 with a 2.75 flat then tapered to 0
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:thumbsup:
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I have an old Osage riser block I milled a couple years back to make a longbow. I don’t think it’s 1.75 wide but I’ll check. I could probably come up with some new wedges if it’s got the width.
We’d be looking for 8 1/2” long x 1.75” wide x 5” flat spot at 1/4” tapered to nothing over 3.5” of run?
Then you mentioned pinning the butt ends, so I assume we’re going to cut an inch off leaving a 4” flat.
I may have a solution. If I knocked an 1/8 off these wedges, it’d leave me with 5 1/2” of flat, then would leave me 1/4” tapered to nothing over around 4 1/2”.
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Changing things up a little
I looked at a older bow I made.
Use the wedges you have, Don't thin it down.
So your wedges won't have a flat after you finish the bow, just the wedge part.
The Bezels that come with the take down bolt kit will allow for the bolt being crooked because of the tapered ramps.
With this setup you want your bolt in the center and your dowels on each side of the bolt.
when you make your form for the limbs, make it 2" longer (1" for the line up block and 1" to cut off the wedge later)at the wedge area.
make the wedge 8-1/2" long, cut most of the flat part off.
So your wedge and form are 1" longer now, you can screw a line up block on that 1" area, it will keep everything from sliding around so much.
(https://i.imgur.com/llITfbn.jpg)
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Wedge all the way
(https://i.imgur.com/LTtSd13.jpg)
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I understand. I’ll get the template cut out and start on the form. It’s blistering hot here and makes the shop pretty miserable so it may be a couple few days. Thanks a lot.
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:thumbsup:
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I wish we had known what wedges to make the first go. Since this is your first go on this design, just tell me some specs and I'll send you what you need on my dime... :thumbsup:
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My fault Kenny. I put the cart in front of the horse on this deal. I think we have it worked out but if not I’d kindly pay for a couple more!
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How bout you pay shipping? Final offer! :biglaugh:
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How bout you pay shipping? Final offer! :biglaugh:
Kenny 1/4" thick 9" long, taper 3-1/2"
3-1/2" tapered --1/2" from the taper to the riser and 5" for the flat.
If you not made it all ready
(https://i.imgur.com/keGhrO7.jpg)
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Yeah! What he said! :biglaugh:
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On the top half of the form at the butt end, do I need to profile out for the wedge and additional limb thickness or leave it alone?
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Leave it for now, as long as there is room for the hose on the dry run I would not mess with it. :thumbsup:
Easy to take off, hard to put back on.
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Well I messed up my first 2 attempts routing out the form. The 1st one I didn’t leave any room on the ends to let the router clear the template. So I cut a longer piece of form material. My thought was to use the router base to run along the template with a straight cut bit, which worked just fine until I got to the radius. It’s obvious now that it won’t cut the same radius as the template. My router is a little laminate router so I was making multiple passes. I will get a flush cut with a bearing and see if it can eat the whole board in one pass or burn up.
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Well I messed up my first 2 attempts routing out the form. The 1st one I didn’t leave any room on the ends to let the router clear the template. So I cut a longer piece of form material. My thought was to use the router base to run along the template with a straight cut bit, which worked just fine until I got to the radius. It’s obvious now that it won’t cut the same radius as the template. My router is a little laminate router so I was making multiple passes. I will get a flush cut with a bearing and see if it can eat the whole board in one pass or burn up.
I think I have it worked out. I should be able to do the same thing with the router but use the “drop” or negative side of what I’ve cut off. Works in my head anyway!
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It worked. Waiting on the hose plugs from big Jim and some new wedges from Kenny and we’ll be set.
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Check to see if the routed area is square to the sides all the way down. :thumbsup:
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Yes sir, I checked. All good.
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Awesome :thumbsup:
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The hose plugs came in so I got my air hose setup. It took some finagling to get the clamps to where it wouldn’t leak.
Do you guy typically put a laminate strip on the top of your form or did I dream that up?
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The top does not need a strip. but on each end I round off so there are no sharp spots that could puncher your hose.
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Thank you.
How much gap do you gents aim for between the top and bottom form?
And how much air pressure? I put 25 pounds on it to test and it’s rock hard, but I was thinking 60 was where I needed to be? 60 seemed dangerous!
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What stic said
1" is how I do mine, drill and bolt you hardware on first and then mark 1" and band saw it.
Your dry run will tell you how much pressure, 40/50psi is plenty.
put 50 psi in the hose and stick the ends in a bucket of water and look for bubbles
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What Mark said... About 1" between forms... You want the cross section of your air hose to resemble an oval racetrack... You don't want a dog bone shape...
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Got it set at an inch. I got off a little at the butt end so it’s more like an 1 1/8” but I was hoping with the wedges in that area it won’t make much of a difference. I’ll track down some steel straps and bolts to get it coupled together.
How much do you shim out the steel to get it to clear the air hose? I was thinking a 1/4” each side, maybe more?
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I use 1/2" plywood (it's a bit less ) so it doesn't bunch the hose there.
I bevel the top of the ones on bottom form to make it easier to set straps down over.
I would put something to hold lams in line with form. I use fender washers drilled off center so you can just swing them up and tighten the screw.
I don't worry about the tip end , only both ends of wedge and mid limb . You will grind off the edges at the tip anyway.
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Remember there is gonna be play between your bolts and holes... Drill holes square on a drill press... Bolt your straps to one half of the form with the straps pushed up hard on the bolts when tightened to replicate the straps under pressure of air hose... Now mark out the holes in the strap on the other half of form... Allow for play in the bolts and holes...
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What Kenny and Shredd said :thumbsup:
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I follow fellas, feeling pretty good about it so far. I need to add the little swing washers to keep everything in place, but I got the straps on tonight.
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I was contemplating not building an oven, but after reading the EA 40 specs it sounds like it really helps out the epoxy properties. But it’s also confusing that it says to cure at room temp, then go into the oven. I thought most of you guys went straight into the oven with wet glue?
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Those 3 black screw are not going to work, open up the 2 lower holes and use bolts and 1/2" plywood.
In the hot box cut time off. Does your truck get hot inside, start early in the morning and put it in there, put some cardboard under it and take it out the next day.
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Yeah I don’t like the screws either. I actually bought lags for it but they weren’t long enough. Thanks for the tip, I’ll get them swapped out.
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:thumbsup:
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I put the same thickness plywood on the bottom form and use a 1/2" bolt thru there. May not need it but that's how I started out...
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I put the same thickness plywood on the bottom form and use a 1/2" bolt thru there. May not need it but that's how I started out...
1/2" Bolt all the way... Anything less will bend...
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The picture is deceiving. There’s 1/2” ply under the bottom straps. I don’t like how narrow I made them so when I switch out the wood screws I’ll make some bigger 1/2” pieces. I found some longer lags. (2) 1/4” diameter lags per strap you think will bend? I’m happy to switch to bolts if you think so. I guess my thought was (2) 1/4’s should have the same properties as (1) 1/2.
Thanks for all the feedback! Appreciate it.
No work on the form this evening, family is getting upset at my absence in the evenings!
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Go with one 1/2" like shredd and Kenny said
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Yep, Go with 1/2" bolts like Shredd and Kenny said. Anything less will bend.
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10-4!
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Did a couple stress tests this morning. 40 pounds on the hose.
I think I set my gap too big between the forms. The hose doesn’t put any pressure on the outside edges. And I’m having a hard time getting this kink out.
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how wide is it down threw there?
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1 1/8.
At the butt end it opened up quite a bit. 1 3/8.
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Before you do anything with the form dry fit it with lams and wedge and pressure strip. Just like the glue up, then decide. If you want to close it up some, glue thin wood strips to the top form
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What material is the form made of? Looks like particle board?
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Yes, particle board.
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Before you do anything with the form dry fit it with lams and wedge and pressure strip. Just like the glue up, then decide. If you want to close it up some, glue thin wood strips to the top form
X2
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What stic said
1" is how I do mine, drill and bolt you hardware on first and then mark 1" and band saw it.
Your dry run will tell you how much pressure, 40/50psi is plenty.
put 50 psi in the hose and stick the ends in a bucket of water and look for bubbles
Not being rude like Lonesome Dove
Live and learn :thumbsup:
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I would put the hose in , air it up and put in heat box before gluing bow . I don’t trust mdf or particle board but that’s just me...
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Have you had a bad experience with particle board?
It’s leftover shelving from my last job site so I’m not out anything if I need to burn it.
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What stic said
1" is how I do mine, drill and bolt you hardware on first and then mark 1" and band saw it.
Your dry run will tell you how much pressure, 40/50psi is plenty.
put 50 psi in the hose and stick the ends in a bucket of water and look for bubbles
Not being rude like Lonesome Dove
Live and learn :thumbsup:
I shoved some strips of wood in there, back to an inch, and it still won’t get there. 7/8” is the ticket.
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Your fine Brudder... Put the exact lams in that you are gonna use for a bow... If you are still a little short just add a pressure strip over top of the lams... It will do two things... It will close the gap and it will keep the glue out where your lam keepers may stick up on the form... I myself prefer around 7/8" inch gap but I use a different hose from most... Lessen learned... Go a hair thinner on the next one... You can always sand it down...
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I haven’t but heard several stories on mdf . Breaks while cooking . Not sure what glue they use in particle board but some wood glues fail in extreme heat. Just cautious as haven’t seen a form made with it .
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Double up a electric blanket and cover the form, 120 degrees wont hurt the form
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I put a piece of hard rubber between the top and the hose to close any gaps that I dont like.
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Thanks guys!
I’ll do a dry run with all the goodies and see how it looks.
How do you cut the fiberglass? I was leaning towards a hacksaw.
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Hacksaw is what I use.
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The only plus to MDF is 3/4 is 3/4 . But it dents breaks and sucks up moisture.
At Menards they have Hand I- panels that actually just twig under actual thickness. 2x2 2x4 not sure if they have 2x8. But I make my long forms in halves and scab them together.
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Dry run went better than I expected. The hose still doesn’t reach the edges, but I don’t have a pressure strip in there yet either. Is a pressure strip just a flexible strip of sheet metal or aluminum?
Even though the hose doesn’t reach the edges, everything is good and tight. Except at the feathered end of the wedge, it needs choked down a little bit.
And a picture of my new little quail finder. GWP.
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I would just use a wood lam to your preferred thickness for a pressure strip... Make sure it is sanded smooth...
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He is little
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I get the rubber baseboard ( in offices hospitals etc.)bandsaw it to right width. Can use one or two depending on how much space you need to fill.
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I get the rubber baseboard ( in offices hospitals etc.)bandsaw it to right width. Can use one or two depending on how much space you need to fill.
That’s funny, I was just thinking about using vinyl wall base. We’ve got boxes of the stuff laying around at work.
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Double check me on this please
From belly to back:
Air hose
Pressure strip
Glass, shiny side up
Parallel
Wedge
Taper
Glass, shiny side down.
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Double check me on this please
From belly to back:
Air hose
Pressure strip
Glass, shiny side up
Parallel
Wedge
Taper
Glass, shiny side down.
:laughing: shiny side, they have been glued up wrong
Yes
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I’m getting real close to a glue up. I found some sheet rubber at work, flexible but very dense. It’s use is to cut down on sound transmission through walls. Anyway it cut down on my form gap and the air hose looks great. Still need to come up with a hot box, still debating on building one or using my truck/sun.
Painters tape on the shiny sides of the glass correct?
Saran Wrap under the stack and over the form and under the air hose and over the stack?
About how much smooth on do I need to mix up for 1 limb?
Thanks for the help.
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Plastic sheet between stack and pressure strip...
Electric blanket with a sleeping bag or comforter over it is plenty of heat...
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Saran Wrap next to the tape
Like Shredd said
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About how much smooth on do I need to mix up for 1 limb?
This may help a bit with that question:
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=176070.msg2964902#msg2964902
Mark
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Smooth-on
use plastic spoons, rounded over spoon full of each, more white is better than more yellow, you can mix more if you need it.
You have plenty of time :thumbsup:
Tape over the stack at the wedge and pull it back at a angle to keep the stack from sliding away from the stop.
(https://i.imgur.com/o4yUVPi.jpg)
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Smooth-on
use plastic spoons, rounded over spoon full of each, more white is better than more yellow, you can mix more if you need it.
You have plenty of time :thumbsup:
Tape over the stack at the wedge and pull it back at a angle to keep the stack from sliding away from the stop.
(https://i.imgur.com/o4yUVPi.jpg)
Got it! Thank you.
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Use 2 spoons . 1 for A and 1 for B when you take it out of the can.
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Use 2 spoons . 1 for A and 1 for B when you take it out of the can.
Good tip! That way I won’t contaminate the cans, I assume anyway.
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I use 3oz plastic cups. I mark a line 7/8” up from the bottom on each cup. That does one 58” take down limb. I would do more than that on the first limb and adjust the amount as needed on future limbs. You can always mix a little more if you need to. There is plenty of time. I remember my first bow took over an hour to get secured in the form and had no issues.
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Lets see you form with the washers to hold the lams in place.
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Best picture I have at the moment until I get home. This was just a fit up to see if my rubber strip “gap fillers” were going to work. But you can see the washers, they work well. I leave them loose, swing them up into place and tighten the screw to kind of crowd the lams flush.
I still need to make the limb butt end stop block at the end of the form. And trim the lams to length. Probably should leave them a couple inches long at the tip end?
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Sorry, I really need to figure out how to rotate pics. I’m sure everyone has a sore neck from trying to see them.
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3" from the nock longer on the tips :thumbsup:
You need 1 more washer at the feather end of the butt wedge.
It's all going to get slippery when the glue is on ;)
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Done.
Do you apply the smooth on to both mating surfaces or just 1 side?
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Both sides of every mating surface. Maybe I should say all but the exterior surface of glass. :biglaugh:
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I put tape on the washers and wax them. It stopes them from sticking to the limb.
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10-4 thanks guys.
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I think I’m ready.
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Are you sure?? :laughing:
Have a rag or two handy for wiping off your hands and such... I am not sure if it was mentioned or discussed earlier, but are you gonna pin the lams to the form?? Pretty important for accurate alignment...
Things should go relatively easy... You are only building half a bow... :)
Good Luck and enjoy...
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Dang it! I forgot the pinning part!!!! Mad man max told me to, just completely forgot. Sad part is, I was thinking I needed to do it before I started then I got excited and pressed onward.
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It turned out really good, I think. Everything looks flush and aligned.
The pinning part for the next limb, I was going to put a toothpick thru the stack at the butt end. Is that correct?
Can I lightly tap these epoxy buggers off the edge of the limb or will pull the wood off with it?
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I've never used a tooth pick before.
what king of belt sander do you have? or a rasp will work
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I do use 1/8" dowel from Lowes on my 1 piece recurves on the belly ramps.
I use a centering jig to drill 1/4" hole in the form and the lam stack
https://www.amazon.com/Center-Dowel-Self-Centering-Doweling-Drilling/dp/B081RGDJ28
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I've never used a tooth pick before.
what king of belt sander do you have? or a rasp will work
I don’t have a belt sander yet, but am planning on getting one.
Got the 2nd limb glued up this afternoon and into the ‘99 F-150 oven.
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You can take a hand held belt sander and clamp it on it's side... Inspect sander before you buy it and make sure you have places to clamp it and it will be able to lay flat... Next step up would be a harbor freight 6 x 48" sander and secure it on it's side... I done it and a few other guys done it... Works well...
Tooth pick should work... There is very little shear but you might want to go a hair thicker to be on the safe side... I have a hole in my form and use a 4 penny nail... The good thing about using a nail is that it is metal and if any epoxy squeezed over to the nail, you just heat it with a lighter and it will pull right out...
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Good tip on the nail Shredd :thumbsup:
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You can take a hand held belt sander and clamp it on it's side... Inspect sander before you buy it and make sure you have places to clamp it and it will be able to lay flat... Next step up would be a harbor freight 6 x 48" sander and secure it on it's side... I done it and a few other guys done it... Works well...
Tooth pick should work... There is very little shear but you might want to go a hair thicker to be on the safe side... I have a hole in my form and use a 4 penny nail... The good thing about using a nail is that it is metal and if any epoxy squeezed over to the nail, you just heat it with a lighter and it will pull right out...
That’s good stuff, thank you.
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:thumbsup:
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Looking ahead here to my next step, other than finding a belt sander.
I guess I should get my riser block cleaned up from the epoxy squeeze out and cut my limb pad angles (18 degrees). To do this I was thinking I’d run them through the table saw/miter gauge unless someone has some objections. I wondered how the blade would like cutting that epoxy?
Then I was looking at those centering jigs, but the takedown insert size isn’t available in the jigs I was looking at. So I thought order one anyway and redrill it to the correct size. Or add a bushing of the correct size.
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Table saw will work, Carbide will cut right threw it.
The blade needs to be really square.
Rough cut the angles first then finish cut about a 1/16"
27/64" (.421)--7/16" (.437) close enough for a 1/2"-13 insert.
you need a 1/2"-13 tap too.
Do you have the 1/2"-13 insert?
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Table saw will work, Carbide will cut right threw it.
The blade needs to be really square.
Rough cut the angles first then finish cut about a 1/16"
27/64" (.421)--7/16" (.437) close enough for a 1/2"-13 insert.
you need a 1/2"-13 tap too.
Do you have the 1/2"-13 insert?
Yes I have the inserts and I have the tap as well. Do you use smooth on the set the inserts? Or something else.
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I been using CA for inserts.
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Use the smooth on for the inserts because your going to have a little bit looser fit.
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You can take a hand held belt sander and clamp it on it's side... Inspect sander before you buy it and make sure you have places to clamp it and it will be able to lay flat... Next step up would be a harbor freight 6 x 48" sander and secure it on it's side... I done it and a few other guys done it... Works well...
Tooth pick should work... There is very little shear but you might want to go a hair thicker to be on the safe side... I have a hole in my form and use a 4 penny nail... The good thing about using a nail is that it is metal and if any epoxy squeezed over to the nail, you just heat it with a lighter and it will pull right out...
Any reason to shy away from an oscillating belt/spindle sander?
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At a later date you can make a pattern sander with it :thumbsup:
This is mine
(https://i.imgur.com/GIKey8J.jpg)
Longer shaft with 3 flats so it wont slip in the chuck.
See the rub collar and the bearing for the hole to the right
(https://i.imgur.com/1TX5xWm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ob0Jaj9.jpg)
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I am not familiar with them... Maybe someone else will chime in... They kinda look rinky-dink to me and maybe for a hobbyist... And if it is not operating at a perfect 90* you are just gonna have to buy another tool that does and that is adjustable so you can fine tune the angle...
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I think your belt / spindle sander would work if it is square. It also helps if you keep the angles the same.
I have a ridge belt/spindle sander and it is NOT square to the table.
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Find a belt sander like Shredd said to mount it on it's side.
Most people have a edge sander.
Mine get's used more than any tool in the shop $850.00 when I bought it.
Btw what tools do you have in your shop?
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-6-x-80-edge-sander-w-wrap-around-table/g0512
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Find a belt sander like Shredd said to mount it on it's side.
Most people have a edge sander.
Mine get's used more than any tool in the shop $850.00 when I bought it.
Btw what tools do you have in your shop?
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-6-x-80-edge-sander-w-wrap-around-table/g0512
That grizzly edge sander is pretty awesome, but probably not practical for me for a few bows a year. Nothing special as far as tools in my shop: 10” table saw, 10” sliding chop saw, 12” bandsaw (that I absolutely hate), palm sanders, hand stuff, overhead crane/trolley (does that help? Haha), framing guns, finish guns, real guns, 13” planer, Probably some other stuff tucked away somewhere collecting dust.
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Drill press?
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Drill press?
Nope! No drill press.
6” Joiner! That’s the one I forgot. Built somewhere around the year 1829. Weighs about 1.5 tons. :biglaugh:
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I have an idea……..why not under mount a spindle sander with a fence setup for a guide? Like the sketch.
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I think a table saw then the jointer .
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I've got a 6x89" edge sander, a 4x48" combo and the Ridgid oscillating edge sander and find it to be the most versatile. For $269 it works pretty good and I know alot of bowyers use them. If you don't abuse it and use a good quality belt one will last for several years. The thing I like about the Ridgid sander is it's big enough to profile limbs and small enough to shape handles.
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I have an idea……..why not under mount a spindle sander with a fence setup for a guide? Like the sketch.
The sanding sleeve will clog up really fast, a belt will work much better.
I've been down that road before.
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I have an idea……..why not under mount a spindle sander with a fence setup for a guide? Like the sketch.
The sanding sleeve will clog up really fast, a belt will work much better.
I've been down that road before.
True, True... Go with the belt...
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You got it. I’ll find something here in the next day or so.
So I guess my next step is to sand the glue off the limb edges. My lams are 1.75” so I’m guessing I need to be super careful I don’t dig into the actual limb any. And get the riser block cleaned up. Then cut the limb pads, which we already discussed.
My centering jig came in today, it appears better than I expected but I’ll test it out on some scrap to check if it’s really centered.
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Good stuff... :thumbsup: We be watching you... Don't screw up..!! :laughing:
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I can’t handle this pressure!
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I can’t handle this pressure!
:laughing:
You'll do fine... Take your time and enjoy the process... We are all pulling for you...
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I picked up the rigid oscillating belt. Out of the box it was not squared up with the table, but a couple minutes with the instructions and it’s good to go.
I think I’ll start with 80 grit and get the limb edges close, then switch to 120 to get a little closer. Maybe finish down to the actual limb with a block by hand.
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:thumbsup: :bigsmyl:
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If you are taking off snot, use 50 to 60 grit and start out sanding your limbs on a slight angle to the platen or use the roller on the belt sander ... It will remove it a lot faster... When getting close to the limb then use the flat of the platen... Stay with 50 or 60 grit and just take your time and be careful... After you cut your limbs out still sand with 60 grit until your almost to the line then go to 120...
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I picked up the rigid oscillating belt. Out of the box it was not squared up with the table, but a couple minutes with the instructions and it’s good to go.
I think I’ll start with 80 grit and get the limb edges close, then switch to 120 to get a little closer. Maybe finish down to the actual limb with a block by hand.
So I am in the process of my first one also. It was a little intimidating how much built up epoxy was on the edge of the limbs when it came out of the press. I was a little scared of taking off too much of the limb. However, now that I have done it I will tell you I had plenty of room cause what goes in the press is a little larger than the final limb shape. But when I first was doing it I was a little stressed thinking I would take too much off. I ended up using 40 grit on a belt sander and it was great. Gets it off fast and still had plenty of room to work with the limb shape.
I am down to finishing my riser now so hope to be completed soon.
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Thanks guys!
Hey how narrow can I go on limb width? I’m at 1.75 now, but need to take a little more off.
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How bout you pay shipping? Final offer! :biglaugh:
Kenny 1/4" thick 9" long, taper 3-1/2"
3-1/2" tapered --1/2" from the taper to the riser and 5" for the flat.
If you not made it all ready
(https://i.imgur.com/keGhrO7.jpg)
Need to revisit this part, how much of a pad am I aiming for? I thought we were going with 4”, but looks like I have about 5.5” worth of flat area on the wedge.
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How bout you pay shipping? Final offer! :biglaugh:
Kenny 1/4" thick 9" long, taper 3-1/2"
3-1/2" tapered --1/2" from the taper to the riser and 5" for the flat.
If you not made it all ready
(https://i.imgur.com/keGhrO7.jpg)
Need to revisit this part, how much of a pad am I aiming for? I thought we were going with 4”, but looks like I have about 5.5” worth of flat area on the wedge.
4”
See the line where the wedge startes to taper, you want a 1/2” from there to the end of the riser
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I use 1 39/64 width on my recurve limbs.I use 1 3/4 glass and lams.
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Taper the last 8" from the NOCK to 3/4" first, then we will see what it looks like braced :thumbsup:
(https://i.imgur.com/PR7CtwW.jpg)
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Thanks guys.
I have not cut my limb tips off yet. They’re still 2” longer than design. I assume I should cut them off then do your 8” taper?
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I taper 1st the cut them off, less width to cut off
Doesn't really matter
:thumbsup:
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I feel like I got a lot done today. Cut the limb pads - used my miter saw and despite squaring the blade up to the table before the cut, it still didn’t come out square. I think it may have deflected a little on the phenolic. But I got them squared up on the belt sander.
Then I proceeded to mount the limbs. I used a fairly cheap jig and it showed its inconsistencies but with some tweaking they came out fine. First 1/2” insert went in just fine. The 2nd got stuck on me and was sticking out about an 1/8”. So I ground it off flush. I don’t know if the CA setup too quick or what but it hit
A wall and wouldn’t thread anymore.
Then with a string line and a square I lined the limb tips up with centerline of the riser and drilled the index pins. Set them in CA, Coated the other end with wax and mounted the limbs again before the CA setup.
That’s where I left off for the day.
My concerns: 1. while the limbs are mounted and the riser laying on its belly on a flat table, one limb (lower) touches the table and the upper does not. Apparently my limb pad angles have some deviation, can this be corrected with tillering? I shoot 3 under if that helps out any?
2. When I was drilling the Bolt holes the drill bit blew out some of the fiberglass on the backside of the limb butt. I was going to soak it in a little superglue or leave it alone? It’s not really bad at all.
Overall I’m very pleased with how it all fit up.
Again, sorry about the crooked pictures.
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Pictures
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.
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Use super glue on the blow out :thumbsup:
lets see a side view of the bow on the table
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Use super glue on the blow out :thumbsup:
lets see a side view of the bow on the table
You may not be able to see it, but the left limb is actually lifting the riser block just a little off the table. The right limb clears the table by a tiny bit.
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If you put your limbs beside each other do the tips and bolt holes line up?
I believe it will be OK, you may have 1 limb longer than the other or the limb pad may be off a little.
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I think you’ll be fine. I don’t think I’d mark your nocks off the riser center line with out making sure one limb isn’t gonna be shorter than the other. I would mark your nocks measuring from the limb butt then check the center of your nock to nock measurement. One thing I do see is your bolt head looks close to the top edge of the riser block. Might cause problems when you shape your riser. Could just look that way from the picture angle.
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Sorry Max posted while I was typing. We kinda said the same thing.
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If you put your limbs beside each other do the tips and bolt holes line up?
I believe it will be OK, you may have 1 limb longer than the other or the limb pad may be off a little.
Yes, the limbs mirror each other perfectly.
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I think you’ll be fine. I don’t think I’d mark your nocks off the riser center line with out making sure one limb isn’t gonna be shorter than the other. I would mark your nocks measuring from the limb butt then check the center of your nock to nock measurement. One thing I do see is your bolt head looks close to the top edge of the riser block. Might cause problems when you shape your riser. Could just look that way from the picture angle.
I think I’m following you, but The limbs are the same (laid side by side) so I don’t think this would apply correct? And yes, I’m kicking myself for not putting the bolts down further. Lesson learned on that one.
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Lets keep going
1st bow is always a learning lesion
Lay out and sand you tip taper as accurate as you can
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Do you have 2 dowels on each end?
what stack taper did you use .002 or .003?
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Do you have 2 dowels on each end?
1 dowel at each limb.
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Lets keep going
1st bow is always a learning lesion
Lay out and sand you tip taper as accurate as you can
I need to double check a couple things with this. 8” from the nocks, I got that part. How much should I leave from limb tip to nocks? I laid out an inch, but that seemed like a lot. And at what width am I aiming for at the nocks?
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If your limb holes measure the same it’s your limb pad angle. It’ll all work out. Might just take a little more tillering.
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x2 what 4 point said
What stack taper did kenny send you .002 or .003?
3/4" and 3/4"
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Use super glue on the blow out :thumbsup:
lets see a side view of the bow on the table
You may not be able to see it, but the left limb is actually lifting the riser block just a little off the table. The right limb clears the table by a tiny bit.
Try switching your limbs, top for bottom... if you get the same results it's your limb pad angle... You'll be fine... If it works with your tillering make the side that riser lifts off the table the top of the bow... since the riser is already tilted it will be more in line with the angle of your grip...
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Use super glue on the blow out :thumbsup:
lets see a side view of the bow on the table
You may not be able to see it, but the left limb is actually lifting the riser block just a little off the table. The right limb clears the table by a tiny bit.
Try switching your limbs, top for bottom... if you get the same results it's your limb pad angle... You'll be fine... If it works with your tillering make the side that riser lifts off the table the top of the bow... since the riser is already tilted it will be more in line with the angle of your grip...
That’s a good idea, but I intentionally drilled the index pins different! Seemed like a good idea at the time. Maybe not so much now.
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x2 what 4 point said
What stack taper did kenny send you .002 or .003?
3/4" and 3/4"
Looks like .242 stack and .002 taper. If I’m reading the invoice right.
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With a .002 you need to taper the whole limbs.
I will get back to you
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6" from the nock make it 1.4 ( fat 1-3/8" ) wide, taper to the riser end 1.75 wide
then taper the last 6" to the nock .750 (3/4")
Lay these lines out as close a possible
(https://i.imgur.com/6AsbDsE.jpg)
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6" from the nock make it 1.4 ( fat 1-3/8" ) wide, taper to the riser end 1.75 wide
then taper the last 6" to the nock .750 (3/4")
Lay these lines out as close a possible
(https://i.imgur.com/6AsbDsE.jpg)
Got it, and thanks for the clarification on the 1.4”, that threw me off a bit! Kinda like when Bue said he finishes his limb widths down the the 64th’s, you all are working on a level of tolerances my brain doesn’t comprehend and my equipment isn’t capable of doing!!
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:thumbsup: :bigsmyl:
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I got the limbs laid out but not cut yet.
And started some riser layout. I think it looks pretty sharp considering I free handed it and I have zero artistic abilities. I set the deep part of the handle at the centerline of the riser, the shelf 1.25” above that. Handle depth at 1.75”. Then just started making lines until it looked like something.
Oh, almost forgot, I marked the site window 1/8” past center. I assume I could get away with that and not break anything. We (Kenny) offset that I beam to keep more of it in the riser and less taken out in the window cutout.
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Check it 10 times cut it once :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:
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I would only cut it to center. Then sand the rest just to be safe.
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Yes, cut shallower than you plan to go, so you can radius the corner of shelf. Helps strength...
Also you can radius back to belly a bit if you like, and I like to make a higher spot on shelf right above low part of grip.
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Yes, cut shallower than you plan to go, so you can radius the corner of shelf. Helps strength...
Also you can radius back to belly a bit if you like, and I like to make a higher spot on shelf right above low part of grip.
Yes sir, I’ve reviewed your website build a few times. I’m on board with everything except the part where you freehand the site window through the table saw. I don’t have the stones for that maneuver!! I may try my sliding miter saw though to do the same thing.
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That sliding miter... I hope hope you can lock it for depth of cut while you slide it... Not familiar with them...
I cut all my windows on the proud side of half way and then sand down and slightly round off the whole window...
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That sliding miter... I hope hope you can lock it for depth of cut while you slide it... Not familiar with them...
I cut all my windows on the proud side of half way and then sand down and slightly round off the whole window...
Yes, it has depth stops. I’ll take it easy.
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Try to cut glass into wood so it doesn't pull glass slivers off. Don't ask how I know that!
Same with hand sanding edges of limbs, always go from center to end, glass has fibers kinda like wood grain, you can pick up a sliver under edge of paper. Don't ask how I know that... :laughing:
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Try to cut glass into wood so it doesn't pull glass slivers off. Don't ask how I know that!
Same with hand sanding edges of limbs, always go from center to end, glass has fibers kinda like wood grain, you can pick up a sliver under edge of paper. Don't ask how I know that... :laughing:
So center to tip, then center to butt? And sand down into the glass, don’t lift it correct?
Another thing I was wondering about, do you sand the glass back and belly or leave it alone?
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Center of bow to tip (butt of limb to tip on a TD, sorry) . Yes , you need to sand the flats of glass with 220 so finish sticks well.
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Too soon to get a string ordered?
I know on my self bows I go long string/low brace first, wasn’t sure if that was the case with glass?
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Lay a string on the limb from the nock to the riser, mark it with a sharpie.
measure it flat on the table x2 + the riser length.
NO long string for a glass bow.
I will make it for you, PM me your address and cell number.
Order this
https://www.amazon.com/Selway-Limbsaver-Recurve-Bow-Stringer/dp/B07KY38FFD
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Quick update, I’ve been working a little bit in the evenings on the bow. I have the limbs really close to final widths, and started shaping the riser lastnight. I don’t trust my bandsaw to cut the shapes out so I made a few hundred Kerf cuts and broke them out with a flat head screwdriver. Then on to the spindle sander to get it closer, still have the site window and shelf to do but I think I’ll do it by hand.
I don’t think I’ll use blue tape again, it’s really hard for my eyes to pick up the lines.
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I think your gonna end up with a nice bow!
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I think your gonna end up with a nice bow!
Thanks! I’m excited to see where I ended up poundage wise and get some cedar shafts ordered.
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I use the high heat masking tape
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I used to use pencil on masking tape now I use pen... You can see the lines a lot better... Just gotta be careful if you wipe anything off with solvent... it will smudge your lines or can smudge ink onto the wood... I also get my masking tape from a auto paint store which comes in bright yellow or orange...
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"" I also get my masking tape from a auto paint store which comes in bright yellow or orange...""
Can you get 1.5" plus?
I bought some off the big auction that was sold as 1.5" and it was 1.488 or some crap. Didn't cover glass...
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Our hardware store carries a pale green painters tape that shows lines pretty good. I buy the 2” roll and trim to fit limbs.
I don’t mess with tape on riser. Just draw right on the wood.
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Our hardware store carries a pale green painters tape that shows lines pretty good. I buy the 2” roll and trim to fit limbs.
I don’t mess with tape on riser. Just draw right on the wood.
Thats what I've been using, but the yellow is really good.
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Your just a Yellow Fellow :biglaugh:
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Yup, yellow fletchings too... :goldtooth:
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So I made the bow string (D-97) and mailed it out Thursday 61" + or - .
Should fit with the measurement's you gave me.
Learning to make string is really easy after you learn how. :thumbsup:
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So I made the bow string (D-97) and mailed it out Thursday 61" + or - .
Should fit with the measurement's you gave me.
Learning to make string is really easy after you learn how. :thumbsup:
[/
Thanks a lot max!
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Tracking is saying Monday delivery---
September 26, 2021, 2:18 pm
Departed USPS Regional Destination Facility
WICHITA KS DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Your item departed our WICHITA KS DISTRIBUTION CENTER destination facility on September 26, 2021 at 2:18 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
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Tracking is saying Monday delivery---
September 26, 2021, 2:18 pm
Departed USPS Regional Destination Facility
WICHITA KS DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Your item departed our WICHITA KS DISTRIBUTION CENTER destination facility on September 26, 2021 at 2:18 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
Awesome!
Is gorilla CA ok to use for the limb tip overlays?
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I have used the CA on tips for a lot of bows.
But I think epoxy is better.
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I use ea-40... I don't like the quick stick of CA... If you don't position the overlays perfect you are stuck with it...
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And stuck to it sometimes
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With Max’s string coming in today are there any pointers about filing the string nocks? Seems like I read somewhere that you may have to file one side a little deeper, is that just to get the string aligned down the center if needed?
I’m also guessing I should get my overlays glued on first before filing any nocks….
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Overlays first
Only deeper if you have limb twist.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y1FPzYs.jpg)
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String is delivered :thumbsup:
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Yes sir! Nice looking string! Thanks again.
I glued my overlay layers together (not on the bow yet) this evening. So hoping tomorrow evening I can get them on the bow.
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I messed up the first attempt on overlays, I glued them up flat and now they won’t flex to the limb shape. I’m afraid I’ll pull some curve out if I put them on. So I glued up a thinner attempt this morning before work, with a radius that matches the limb curve better.
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Slip a baggie over the limb tip and use it as a form. Easy peasy
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Kenny x 2 and then you can sand the end which is away from the tip before gluing it on the limb. For a smooth transition and not sanding into the glass.
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What they said but you need to sand the glass under the overlays so it will stick. ;)
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Slip a baggie over the limb tip and use it as a form. Easy peasy
Bingo! That’s what I did. See that? I’m starting to think like you guys……..
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:bigsmyl:
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Slip a baggie over the limb tip and use it as a form. Easy peasy
Bingo! That’s what I did. See that? I’m starting to think like you guys……..
You poor soul... :laughing:
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Been kind of lazy lately with my pictures and progress. I got the tip overlays put on lastnight. Hoping to file the nocks in this evening and brace it…..if I don’t have my glass edges rounded over or sanded will it try to lift some glass slivers?
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if I don’t have my glass edges rounded over or sanded will it try to lift some glass slivers?
It will take maybe 5 minutes to round the sharp edges off, spend the time just to be sure. They don't have to be totally finished, just break the edges.
Mark
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120 grit then 220
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Been kind of lazy lately with my pictures and progress. I got the tip overlays put on lastnight. Hoping to file the nocks in this evening and brace it…..if I don’t have my glass edges rounded over or sanded will it try to lift some glass slivers?
I should have mentioned this... I like to string my bow without the tip overlays first... Especially on the first bow... If the bow comes in a little light or the shape is not what you are looking for or limbs are vertically unstable or it's a hair too long for the string size you want, ect. ect... You can always pike the bow an 1/8 to 2 -3"... It will be fine without overlays... Just don't shoot it unless it is a lightweight bow...
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Been kind of lazy lately with my pictures and progress. I got the tip overlays put on lastnight. Hoping to file the nocks in this evening and brace it…..if I don’t have my glass edges rounded over or sanded will it try to lift some glass slivers?
I should have mentioned this... I like to string my bow without the tip overlays first... Especially on the first bow... If the bow comes in a little light or the shape is not what you are looking for or limbs are vertically unstable or it's a hair too long for the string size you want, ect. ect... You can always pike the bow an 1/8 to 2 -3"... It will be fine without overlays... Just don't shoot it unless it is a lightweight bow...
That makes sense, they aren’t very big overlays so if I need to lose an inch the overlays would be cut off with it.
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I have the limbs getting really close to mad max specs….
I had to peel the tape because the edge of tape would roll over and cover my line. So I think I’ll lay it back out and lightly score the line with my knife. Bad idea?
Almost looks like a bow…….
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When the tape rolls over you cut it with sandpaper in you hand at a 45* angle.
Using a knife or razor blade could get you in trouble.
Have you braced it yet?
Did you get any limb twist?
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When the tape rolls over you cut it with sandpaper in you hand at a 45* angle.
Using a knife or razor blade could get you in trouble.
Have you braced it yet?
Did you get any limb twist?
No brace, I was trying to get closer to your dimensions. I’m at a shy 7/8” at the nocks and 1.5” at the taper 6” down from nocks.
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Come on, get a string on it. Suspense is killing us here. :goldtooth:
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Come on, get a string on it. Suspense is killing us here. :goldtooth:
Haha! I know it’s killing me too! But between work and kids and really wanting this bow to work out I’m trying to take my time.
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You better quit dinkin around....... It's almost October :coffee:
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Pretty soon Christmas. :biglaugh:
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Get a string on it you may need that tip width to get it tracking
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Haha “Christmas”…. :biglaugh: if I don’t have it shooting in the next couple weeks I need to go back to my firefly LB and start getting some arrows flung into the hay bale.
Ok, I’ll get the string on it!
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Ok, string was on for about 5 seconds, then somewhere it slipped off. Wow!!!! That will wake you up. Something smacked my knuckle with authority. Attempt #2 I was a little gunshy. So I filed the nocks a little deeper and was able to get a look at it. It’s really hard to see any twist, it’s also at 8” brace. Would a lower brace show the twist better?
I put a square on the centerline riser and the string is tracking 3/16” off center away from the sight window.
Laying the bow on a flat table the top limb tips measures 5/32” above where it’s supposed to be and bottom limb measures 1/8” below where it’s supposed to be. I would think they should both be sitting at 7/8” in a perfect world.
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You have 1 dowel and 1 bolt?
How loose is the bolt in the hole?
Brace it again and measure both sides like this.
The shorter measurement limb, needs to be the bottom limb, tell me the measurement's?
(https://i.imgur.com/8L5suXj.jpg)
This is your next step, but lets get the limb stuff first.
After you get that done you need to put the string aside and get the limbs straight, check and double check.
Use the center jig to drill threw the limb and into the riser close to the bolt.
You can put a overlay on it later.
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You have 1 dowel and 1 bolt?
How loose is the bolt in the hole?
Brace it again and measure both sides like this.
The shorter measurement limb, needs to be the bottom limb, tell me the measurement's?
(https://i.imgur.com/8L5suXj.jpg)
This is your next step, but lets get the limb stuff first.
After you get that done you need to put the string aside and get the limbs straight, check and double check.
Use the center jig to drill threw the limb and into the riser close to the bolt.
You can put a overlay on it later.
Yes, 1 dowel and 1 bolt. The dowel is so tight I have to put wax on it to get it on and off without feeling like I’m forcing it. I will check the bolt clearances tomorrow, but I’m fairly certain I drilled it to 5/16” for the 5/16 bolt.
The measurements you asked for are 8 13/16” both limbs.
I guess I should clarify that the measurement I posted about my limb tips are while braced. When they’re unbraced they get closer to centerline. So I am getting some twist in them.
Profile pic:
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It has a good look laying on the table :thumbsup:
Take you time doing this down the center
No string groove is why the string jumped off
Put some tape on the belly at the tips, sand the corners to cut the tape.
(https://i.imgur.com/r3WsJwq.jpg)
start a groove just a little with a 1/8" round rasp, check it for center.
(https://i.imgur.com/JBLdPe7.jpg)
Get a 2nd one going the same way
(https://i.imgur.com/I9FAaiq.jpg)
keep checking for center as you go along about 3" or 4" from the nock
(https://i.imgur.com/Xr0fQDA.jpg)
Then use a chainsaw rasp (5/32")
(https://i.imgur.com/Y1FPzYs.jpg)
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What do you guy's think
8" brace, 65" NTN
(https://i.imgur.com/IhCQikA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OMc5rdI.jpg)
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Nice...
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What do you guy's think
8" brace, 65" NTN
(https://i.imgur.com/IhCQikA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OMc5rdI.jpg)
I wish I would have made it a little shorter, say 62”. I also was surprised at how much of the curve was pulled out at brace. I couldn’t take it anymore, I had to pull it a little, so at around 12” draw it feels pretty light. But overall I’m excited to get it finished and put some arrows through it.
Which leads me to my next question because I’m a little confused. Am I trying to correct the limb alignment while unbraced by tweaking the limb bolts. Or am I trying to correct the alignment while braced by following your diagram?
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You need the belly groove first
I think it’s uncoiling good
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You need the belly groove first
10-4, through the glass or just to the bottom of it?
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Glue a underlay about 5” from the nock to the tip and then file the grooves
1/16” thick max and feather the last inch
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Glue a underlay about 5” from the nock to the tip and then file the grooves
1/16” thick max and feather the last inch
Won’t that make it static?
I’ll have to get something ordered, I’m fresh out of overlay stuff since my mess up on the tip overlays. Will 1/16” phenolic work?
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What wood can you get at the big box store
It won’t make it static just a little stiffer
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Which leads me to my next question because I’m a little confused. Am I trying to correct the limb alignment while unbraced by tweaking the limb bolts. Or am I trying to correct the alignment while braced by following your diagram?
[/quote]
Backing up to this question
I wanted to know if the bolt is letting it get out of alignment?
Or if the string is not centered on the belly it can twist the limbs.
So the groove could help us know. :bigsmyl:
I think you need a bushing in the limb to use the bolt as one of the pins, I use 2 pins and a bolt
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I understand, to be continued! I hope to get back on it tomorrow.
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:thumbsup:
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Quick update on my struggles Saturday morning. If you recall I had some limb alignment issues to work through. The first thing I tried was laying the bow on its side, on my flat work table, laying out the centerline again and profiling the limbs again. I had left enough meat on them and thought that would work for sure. But it didn’t, the string still fell outside of the centerline of the riser.
So attempt #2 consisted of heating up and pulling out the alignment dowels, oversizing the bolt holes, lining everything back up and drilling in 2 new dowels per limb. Same results as when I started. It was a frustrating weekend with the bow build!
I’m thinking I may just finish up this riser and order another round of lams/glass.
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Yea that sounds like it would be frustrating! Are you using a jig for your holes?
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Yea that sounds like it would be frustrating! Are you using a jig for your holes?
Yes on the jig. The attempt #2 seemed fool proof, but it still didn’t work. I almost braced it without the dowels, then I could physically move the limbs where I need them, then drill in the dowels. But I wasn’t sure how that glass would handle being drilled while in tension.
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Some guys bolt limbs on, stretch a string tip to tip and line up with riser center. then drill limb and riser together. No tension there.
Then put an overlay on limb back to cover pin hole.
You might check that your pads are square with the riser block. That causes trouble too , if the limb tips slightly at pad, its a lot more at limb nocks.
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Your picture
Hold the riser up in the air with a shop light behind it and check it for square again.
Any little gap could be a problem
(https://i.imgur.com/wtTEcwF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nSWJaY6.jpg)
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Your picture
Hold the riser up in the air with a shop light behind it and check it for square again.
Any little gap could be a problem
(https://i.imgur.com/wtTEcwF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nSWJaY6.jpg)
Yep, you guys are correct. It’s high at the phenolic. I will put the limbs back on and check them for square against the edge of the riser.
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We're you able to cut your pads with same side down or flip it on the second cut. If one end is off plane with the other could be your problem. I have profile jigs for my risers and sand the pads. Keeps them on the same plane with each other.
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I use the method of putting limb and limb bolts on and put string on just tight enough to use as a straight line, and put riser in a vice. Then i slowly swing limbs to line up on marked centerline, then i clamp limbs down and drill fit pins. When done i add a overlay on the limb bolt section.
Usually one limb will be on and the other will be off to one side. This usually is caused by the riser not being perfectly square and will cause you trouble. It is imperative that your riser stock be dead on square to start with. Then make sure your limb mold is square and flat along it’s length.
Hope you get it taken care of it’s a learning curve as you go.
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Is this how you measured the brace at 8"?
(https://i.imgur.com/gMPcHiP.jpg)
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Crooked stic: I believe I flipped it, because I had the miter saw setup at 18 degrees swung right of the blade, and I know I didn’t swing it left, therefore I would have had to flip the riser block.
Gary: that’s what I did on the first try, and again on the 2nd try. I don’t know how many more dowel holes my poor limbs can take!!! :biglaugh:
Max: yes, that’s how I measured brace.
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I put the limbs back on and checked square against the edge of riser. Top limb was ok but bottom was a hair out. I may try to shave just a little off the limb pads to true them up. I’d like to build a sled to run on the miter gauge of my table saw. I’m guessing I will ruin the blade when it hits the T/D bolt though.
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You might be able to remove the insert from the riser by double nutting a 5/16” bolt whatever size your bolt is. You can try a little heat from a propane torch. Then you can square your riser pad. And re- cut your threads with a tap. Probably gonna have to re sand your limbs to the riser edges thats no big deal. A thought.
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If is not very much off keep on side down maybe clamp a sanding block on the side of a 2x4 being sure it square. And sand the pads. The insert will sand to.
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Here is a quicky idea I just thought up... Before you do anything, take a couple of pieces of tape and put them on the edge of your limb pad to make up the difference of what is un-square... Just put the tape about a 1/4" in from the edge of your limb pad... String your bow back up and see what happens... Remember that tape is gonna compress a little so you may want to add an extra piece to help make up the difference... Average masking tape is about .004 to .005" thick...
See what happens... Sometimes it's good to know things and see what you are gonna get before you do anything... It can give you better insight and help you make better decisions...
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Good idea about the tape.
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Thanks Sticster... Hope you are well and doing better...
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:dunno:
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Good ideas Gary and shredd. I’ll try the tape trick first.
Im pretty swamped the next few days but will report back with results when I get a chance! Thanks men.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I will take a pic of one of my riser jigs that eliminates having to flip the block.
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A pic of a riser profile jig. It does two things. 1 makes the same shape on all risers 2 Keeps limb pads on the same plane by eliminating the need to flip the riser for pad cuts.
(https://i.imgur.com/8HecjHM.jpg)
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Stic, will you not have to sand against the grain on one side? Does it work okay? Nice jig.
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Bue I been doing this for years and so far so good. 60 grit belts
Early on I thought I could do this with a router until it ripped a chunk out of some Osage and hit the wall with authority.
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A pic of a riser profile jig. It does two things. 1 makes the same shape on all risers 2 Keeps limb pads on the same plane by eliminating the need to flip the riser for pad cuts.
(https://i.imgur.com/8HecjHM.jpg)
Cool! Do you use a drill press or dedicated spindle?
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6x80 edge sander with profile sander on drive drum end.
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6x80 edge sander with profile sander on drive drum end.
What do you use to get in the deep part of the grip Stic???????
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I only do the pad side with the 6x80. The grip is shaped by spindle sander.
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:thumbsup: