Trad Gang

At a recent gathering of traditional folks    :campfire:    shooting their stickbows and arrows, an interesting topic of conversation was introduced by a very well-know writer/bowyer/hunter.  

He went into a rather long explanation of the terms ARCHER and BOWMAN in an attempt to convince his audience that those of us who shoot recurves and longbows at 3-D events and for hunting are "BOWMEN". These were the men of Robin Hood and Sherwood Forest, or in other words hunters, bandits, or fun-loving scoundrels.  

He went on to say that the term "ARCHER" should be used only for the finely-dressed paper target shooters or for those who compete in the Olympic style of competition.

As for me, I had never considered the "proper" terminology for my hobby, and I see that my dictionary uses the terms interchangeably.  

But now I suppose I must refer to myself as a "BOWMAN".    :archer:

Well i guess that makes me a Bowman, and i dont think it will be much of a stretch to say most of the people on here are Bowman too

Bowman has a nice ring to it.

Bowman, I feel confortable with that, this what I am

BOWMAN!

I would disagree with his definition of the two.  I have always considered myself an archer rather than a bowman or bowhunter, although I rarely shoot at paper and have been called alot of things, but "finely dressed" hasn't been one of them.  For me using the term archer to describe myself boils down to one thing and that is, even if I never hunted another day in my life, I would still shoot my bow every chance I have.  Don't get me wrong, I love to hunt, but I don't shoot a bow just to hunt.  I shoot bow for the pure enjoyment of it and I beleive I have an archer's heart.

Neither.... both?  :D  

First and foremost I think of myself as a bowhunter.  Well, maybe I should just say I'm a hunter as I'm not good enough with my bow to achieve "minute of squirrel head" accuracy needed to truely be a complete bowhunter.  Therefore, I'm not presumptive enough to limit my methods and hunt with only a bow.  I love a good shotgun or rifle and still enjoy hunting with them especially when taking my kids.  Since I'll likely never be as good as I want to be, I'll probably always hunt with other methods until I'm an old fart and no longer care as much about the hunting as I do about just being in the woods.

I enjoy shooting targets but I'm a "fun loving scoundrel" at times too.  Once in a while I evern get dressed up so.....

I am a bowman probably,although many have pointed out that they would still shoot their bows even if they never hunted again.Did you read it completely?It says Fun-loving scoundrels and bandits.I fall into that catagory,and lket me tell you rihgt now that I haven't hunted with my bow.I plan to,but I haven't yet(only tounaments for me.)  Hoorah

Bowman for sure!

With all due respect that everyone is entitled to their opinions, including this "expert", this kind of categorization is unnecessary, inaccurate and somewhat demeaning.  Who is he or I or anyone else to judge who an individual is by how he/she chooses to exercise their love of this sport?  If today I shoot a 3-d range does that make me a bowman, and tomorrow when I shoot paper targets am I an archer?  But then only if properly attired, right?  Rubbish.  Ever since reading "The Witchery of Archery" by Maurice Thompson I've considered myself an Archer (who really prefers to stumpshoot wearing some kind of clothes I'm not allowed to M-F).

Dave

What Lefty said--I just like being in the woods with a bow in hand....decided that in 1978 when  guns didn't excite me anymore and other than military armament and police weaponry, necessary tools of those trades,its been bow in hand only for me since that time.Pure "funnery"----and a dead stump,cow pattie, or sprig of poke  is a worthy target in my world.

If I had an opinion, and chose one or the other, someone else with a bigger computer, more definitions, and some refined calculations of what my opinion was, they would probably change it for me !

I do have to say that I cannot put those that are friends here on this site into one word, there are many things that describe a lot of people here.  Choosing one word to fit them into, would discredit them.

The world we live in, has a way of pigeonholing everybody.  And it also has a way of thinking less of them if they cannot fit them in that pigeonhole.

As for me, I'll be an Archer, by choice not by force.  But most definitely, keep those fancy clothes away from me, and I only shoot at paper when I have to.

Pastor Carl

I love words, I really do. I love delving into their origins and parsing out the deep-down human emotions and experiences that they are meant to convey from one lonely soul to another. I love the nuance that one supposed synonym holds apart from another.

This, however, seems to be much ado about nothing.  :knothead:  

Killdeer  :archer:  (Uh, the name of this icon is "archer". I gotta go tweak my hunting bow now.  :rolleyes:  )

personally i like bowman. to be called either is acompliment, for we are all into such a great sport and life style.

why just yesterday, I put on my plus fours, knee socks, broughans, Kangol cap worn backwards, four in hand and starched white shirt and cardigan sleeveless sweater, took my longbow and quiver in hand, and ventured forth into the woods for a fine afternoon of stumping.

I don't care what anyone calls me, as long as they don't forget to call me for supper!

Killdeer, the "much ado about nothing" was pretty much my thoughts at the time, but his passion to differentiate the two terms was hard to ignore.

Thus far, I'm surprised that more have not stated they were "BOWHUNTERS".

C'mon Killy....stop sounding like a philospher. Call it like you see.... it....  :rolleyes:    :eek:    :confused:  

We are Hunters...eaters of meat....Bowman or Archer...our goal is the same...animal on the ground!! (or Rabbit)

 :scared:

who gives a fat rats ass as long as ya have fun doing it  :archer:    :biglaugh:

I am reminded of Bill Clinton's passion to delineate all the separate definitions of what "is" is.

 :biglaugh:

:help:    :thumbsup:    

I "is" (if we can agree to define is as is in its proper verbage) an Archer. An Archer who relishes the making of my gear, the planning of the chase and then the end result; a Traditional Bowhunter.


LOL

Sanderlin III

I am a hunter who prefers to use a traditional bow to do all my hunting and some fishing. They are both the same and somwhat different. What does it matter as long as you are keeping the spirit alive.

"For instance: a meadow-lark shows his yellow breast in a hunch of clover blossoms, or in a tuft of timothy stubble, thirty yards distant from you-you halt instantly, throw up your bow quickly and gracefully, draw an arrow to the head and let it go sharply, all with as little effort and precisely with the same half-involuntary, half-mechanical accuracy with which you take so many steps in walking. Your arrow flies with a keen hiss straight to the mark and knocks the bird over and over amid a cloud of gold feathers and clover or grass leaves. When you can do this one time out of ten, at even twenty paces, you may begin to call yourself an archer; but do not grow discouraged if it takes a long while to get such ordinary proficiency. "There is no excellence" in archery "without great labor.""

-Maurice Thompson "The Witchery of Archery"

Great.!?! More categories and "clicks" to divide us and some feel superior. Why not just shoot what you want the best you can.

But to me either of them works.You are right to have said that it doesn't matter the attire in which one chooses to wear or the targets that he chooses to fire upon.If he hunts or if He stump shoots.This all could be or it couldn't be factors determining this.

The terms bowman and archer mean the same as was noted earlier and that's easy to validate.

During 1943 a group of archers formed the California Bowmen Hunters in order to distinguish themselves as archers/bowmen who's primarily pursuit was hunting with the bow by coining the term bowman-hunter.  "Bowman-hunter" has been accepted since as a term to identify those archers/bowmen who hunt with the bow.

During the 1870s, Maurice Thompson used the pseudonym "Bowman" and Will H. Thompson used the pseudonym "Archer" on some submissions to "Forest & Stream."  You will find in Maurice's writings that he used both terms interchangeably.

Well, with a last name Bowen I get called Bowmen from time to time.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/Bowman.jpg)
Bowman:
Dragoon regiments always had attached to them a number of young boys called bowmen. The bowmen's job was to perform stable and general camp duties. They were dressed in a variety of of stable dress, legware and forage caps.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/formalarcher.jpg)
Archer:
4th May 1960: A Dutch Guild King aiming his bow and arrow during the archery test. This is one of the many tests of strength, skill and endurance the Guild Kings must face during 'The Festival of Guilds' in the Dutch provinces of Limburg and Brabant

I shoot a bow, there for I am an Archer. I hunt with a bow, there for I am a Bowhunter.

Archer= one who shoots a bow.
Bowman= one who shoots a bow.

Archer....Bowman, is one and the same.

Archery target shooter= one who shoots at targets.
Bowhunter= one who hunts with a bow.

I'd call myself an archer because I love to shoot bows and work at getting better, whether I compete (not in years) or hunt with the bow or not.

I was an Archer until my tie got caught in the string, nearly broke my neck,  now I am a Bowman

I am   :scared:  shocked   :rolleyes:  how can we possibly have a title for what we do, that is so obviously politically incorrect??
What about the great and venerable, Lady 'Gangers; such as Claudia,Shell,Kille.....
Are we to refer to them as bow-MEN?
Titles,categories,clicks....YUCK !!
Fling arras and have fun. Keep score or don't. Loin cloth or golf shirt...whatever...  :saywhat:

I've always thought of myself as just an old wood chucker.....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/boowman.jpg)
The bowman is in charge of the foresails on the boat, either the two headsails or the spinnakers, depending on the sail configuration and point of sail.

Seem to me that there would only be Bowhunters and Archers and the only difference would be that Archers don't hunt???????????? But hey...whats in a name.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/archeryyy.jpg)
The Gay Archer
circa 1938: Betty Saunders, dressed as the Gay Archer for her part in a new Grosvenor House cabaret. She is one of a cast of 14 British girls selected by George Black Jnr.

Not that there's any thing wrong with that....

Bowhunter. IMHO anyone that pursues game with a bow is a bowhunter. I have pursued the game of archery to hone my shooting skills for bowhunting. Again IMHO the best of both worlds.

Tony...you are SO correct!  :readit:  
Killdeer

I just came here to see what Killdeer would say.  :bigsmyl:  

...but, I'm just 'a kindred spirit' to everyone here.  :archer:

Whoops!
This just goes to show that two posters cannot occupy the same place at the same time. Didn't mean to bump you, Ducks.   :eek:  

'Scuse, please.    :wavey:

Killdeer always has something interesting to say.
She is a very talented individual.

Well Blackhawk next time we meet I will be wearing a 3 pc suit ( If I can find one my size at Goodwill) and spit shined shoes...PR

I am what I am. I am, I am. A string stretching, arrow flinging son of a gun !!!!!!     :archer:

I'm either a Red-neck archer or a High-brow bowman whatever, just like to watch arrows fly!

"With all due respect that everyone is entitled to their opinions, including this "expert", this kind of categorization is unnecessary, inaccurate and somewhat demeaning. Who is he or I or anyone else to judge who an individual is by how he/she chooses to exercise their love of this sport? If today I shoot a 3-d range does that make me a bowman, and tomorrow when I shoot paper targets am I an archer? But then only if properly attired, right? Rubbish. Ever since reading "The Witchery of Archery" by Maurice Thompson I've considered myself an Archer (who really prefers to stumpshoot wearing some kind of clothes I'm not allowed to M-F).

Dave "

Good Post Dave.  Is it just me or is there an ever increasing need by some to draw lines between this, that and the other thing?  

Can't be healthy...

Lenny

Killy -

This is Michael Ansara:

 (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/ansaraportrait.jpg)

This is not Michael Ansara:
 (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/TonyW.jpg)

archer? bowman?  Both could be ga-no-ha-li-do-hi in my tongue.

Jeff Chandler?

I'm definitely a BOWMAN.  I have some fine dress clothes but they don't fit me any more.

I like the definitions.

Would she be considered an an Archer....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXhAE_M84Lg&feature=related

my dear Lord...that's gotta HURT!!

Lon is correct! The original Cochise from the film "Broken Arrow" inspired the TV show with Mr. Ansara.
 (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/jeff.jpg)

Classifications of the Grand National Archery Society (Great Britain) in assending order: Third Class Archer, Second Class Archer, First Class Archer, Bowman, Master Bowman and Grand Master Bowman. They shoot at paper targets and dress for the occasion in as far as they have to wear green or white or a registered club color. Having been a member for a few years, I probably wouldn't call many of them 'fun loving rascals', so this expert had better go and rethink his next speech.
Archer, bowman, toxophilite, I don't mind what you call me, as long as we can shoot a few arrows, exchange a few kind words and share a few stories.
UKarcher - shooter of arrows
 :archer:

Many of you have used the term "expert" when referring to this gentleman who gave the group his own definition of "Archer" and "Bowman".  He did not proclaim to be such, nor did I infer that he was an expert.  

Just like all of us, he's entitled to his opinion  and he certainly showed respect for the opinion of those who did not share his point of view.  

This was certainly not a lecture, but a light-hearted discussion.  His  main point was to convey the importance of continuing the friendship and comradeship of our sport.

"I ams what I ams and thats all that I ams."Popeye

I yam what I yam.
Cogito ergo spud.  ;)  

Killdeer

I think I'll have to go along with Lefty.  I hunt, I shoot 3D, I shoot paper, I'm even shooting in a Field and Hunter league (more paper) starting next Thursday.  All last winter and spring Thursday was a volleyball day.  When asked if I'll be playing on Thursdays this summer I told them, "I play volleyball, I am an archer."

Since I done have any fine clothes I guess I consider myself a Bowman..besides, I dont take a fancy to shooting paper dots

Finely dressed and shooting paper targets. Sounds like a horrible nightmare. If hunting was to be taken away, Ughh why even go there! Bowman for me , please.

I shoot a longbow. I go to tournaments and use my longbow. I go hunting with my longbow. Whatever I am to be called for doing so, not to worry me. I be happy with what I do. By the way, Robin Hood's "bowmen" were kinda like enemies of the state were they not? Funny what a hero is to some and not to others. Not trying to be ugly.
Go have fun and shoot well all ye merry gentlemen..

Making the strenous effort to create a false distinction merely strikes me as one more effort to ensure strife and dissent amongst the ranks and perpetuate some sort of B.S. elitist attitude. As my wife told me the other day, "Just shut up and shoot the damn thing!"

I have always considered my self an Archer. I guess now I will have to dress better for the ocassion and quit having fun. I like the term above "Redneck Archer"

That's not the proper way to break an arrow.


BrokenArrow1

Carl

Perhaps an additional perspective would be to look at the two earliest known formal archery clubs in the U.S.  

The first would be the United Bowmen of Philadelphia organized in 1828.  They called themselves "bowmen"; however, in my archives, I don't recall any specific reference to bowhunting although some of them may have taken an occasional shot at game.  They were principally target shooters.  Their uniforms of the day were quite elaborate.  On the other hand, they did enjoy a good time and their special punch was known to be quite potent.  

The second known archery organization was the Robin-Hood Archers of Boston, MA.  This club was organized October 1st of 1835 [or possibly earlier].  They considered themselves "archers".  From the lithograph that I have of them -- they appear to be in uniform and shooting at targets.

So there you have it -- the two earliest known archery organizations in the U.S. -- one calling themselves "bowmen" and the other "archers".  Both were primarily target shooters, which also included much pomp and ritual and enjoying a good time.  No doubt there was a British influence on these early U.S. archery clubs.

I prefer to think of myself as a "toxophilite" meaning "a lover of archery or one devoted to archery".  Another definition of "toxophilite" means an "expert at archery" [unfortunately this latter definition clearly doesn't apply to me].

Tox Collector

:wavey:

This was an excellent thread it makes me want to start one entitled "Black Widow Bows (or any other) are the BEST...and heres why."

I'm a Traditional Archer that's a Bowhunter, I finished a bow so Now I would call myself a Traditional Bowmen