Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Pat B on May 10, 2021, 08:02:19 PM
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I built this locust bow in 2003. It was my best locust build. Note the cut in shelf. I haven't done that in years. One of the tip overlays popped off years ago and I never fixed it or shot it again. Recently, as I was going through my bow collection I saw this one and wondered about sinew backing it. It is 55 1/2" t/t, is just over 2" at it's widest and draws 47#@24". The belly had developed some very fine frets at mid limb on both limbs but not bad. I thought about adding recurves to the end of the limbs but decided to just leave them straight. I will repair the tip overlay then I think I will sinew back it.
Here are a few pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/PbBO8SB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OB0XsPG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D6SoqSp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h8WJPEC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QoN4Uva.jpg)
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Will sinew help stop the frets form going any further?
Nice Pat
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That is a very nice bow pat! Definitely worth bringing back to life. Friend of mine just reduced weight on a gorgeous Osage bow he’d built in the 90s that had got to heavy for him and had just been hanging on the wall. Sad to see great bows go unused!
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Cool bow Pat :thumbsup: I never have made decent Locust bow and thats not for a lack of effort :banghead:
Is the nice brown color from age or had you stained it?
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Mark, I don't know but hope so. I've heard it relieves compression strain.
Flem, I cut my teeth on locust and it usually kicked my butt. This was one of my few successful locust bows.
Thanks, 4 point. I'm hoping to bring this one back.
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Nice Pat
I have my first bow hanging in the shop.
I cut down a shagbark hickory tree off my property and made a bow out of it with the help of Bowjunkie back in the late 90's.
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Ahh, the good old days :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:
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I remover the handle wrap and scraped and sanded the old finish off today.
(https://i.imgur.com/obEPftE.jpg)
You can see how the belly developed a concavity over the years. Ironically the limb with the frets had the most concavity. What that indicates, if anything I don't know.
(https://i.imgur.com/1CP8Xb7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/so8sYk3.jpg)
Next I heated and removed the remaining tip overlay. I think I used gel superglue on it but not sure. As soon as it was hot enough I got a blade under the overlay and it came right up...
(https://i.imgur.com/i2WpkpK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qJysRgW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zqWYbZw.jpg)
Then I clamped the limb to a reflex caul and put the heat to it...
(https://i.imgur.com/FqarBDW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oTX0bbJ.jpg)
I'll check on this a bit later today and get the other limb on the form. Stay tuned.
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Explain the sinew process while you are going along.
Sinew for dummies :laughing:
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Will do, Mark. :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:
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The first limb I bent on the form didn't react too much to the heat. I even went back over and heated until it changed color...a dark purple. When I clamped the other limb I could see the first limb has a twist. I hadn't noticed it before so I don't know if it happened in the heating or it was there all along.
I've just done the other limb. I took this one to the color as I heated the limb from handle to tip. We'll see how it turns out.
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:thumbsup:
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Interesting, I’ll be watching and learning! Don’t know why though, I’ll forget everything I learn. Will be fun to watch though. :knothead:
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I think it's cool you are refinishing it... But wouldn't backing it increase compression on the belly?? It is a heavy bow being 47# @ 24"... Why not scrape the belly, get rid of the frets and bring it down a few lbs so that there is less stress on the belly??
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Shedd, I've heard that sinew backings decrease the compression strains on the belly. That's one reason I wanted to sinew back this bow. Other backings like boo and hickory would increase the compression strains. I'll have to retiller the bow anyway after the sinew is all cured out so I may eliminate the frets anyway.
I took the bow off the form this morning. Although it didn't add much reflex it did even out the limbs and I got a pretty good belly tempering so that will help with the compression too. I also added lemonwood tip overlays. I did that now so if necessary I can wrap the end of the sinew backing and the bottom of the overlay to smooth that transition and add some strength to the overlays. I used TBIII to glue the overlays. I was going to use Weldwood Plastic Resin but it had become a brick in the Ball jar I had it stored in. Must have been humid when I put it in the jar. :knothead:
(https://i.imgur.com/WZ8aW6x.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KYT1ZHw.jpg)
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Looking good there, Pat.
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I got the tips reshaped after adding the overlays and cut in string grooves...(https://i.imgur.com/FMIUvRw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eyPw7bf.jpg)
...and what good are string grooves without a string so I low braced the bow for the first time in many years.(https://i.imgur.com/KyJ09XO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wXUov1l.jpg)
The bow is surprisingly strong. I didn't check the weight with a scale but I wanted to sweat, exercise and reeducate the bow to bend before I pulled it too far. Then I will start with the sinewing.
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I like it...
:thumbsup:
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:jumper:
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I'm getting set up to start the sinew backing. After being up all night while our dogs ran bears off of their territory I'm just not in the right mind frame to get started with this. I still have to prep the bow and get the sinew divided up into usable bundles, hydrating the glue in the crock pot and whatever before I start but today just ain't the day.
I've set up the bow pulled into reflex. I've used this method before with good results. I'm using a strip of sinew to pull the handle down to the base while the tips are up on blocks. While sinewing I'll just sinew over the hold down sinew and cut it free when the backing sinew sets up. Here are a few pics of the set up...(https://i.imgur.com/eERO1Ib.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GvHLtV4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YUerEy0.jpg)
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Looks like a nice day there :thumbsup:
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Looking forward to seeing this Pat.
I been that up all night looking for dogs thing.
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Couple years and we get this reverse 911 call. "There's a bear in the area ". So we went back to sleep. :biglaugh:
Next day a lady we know tells her story. She never got the call cause she was searching the neighborhood for her near deaf dog named.... Bear! She's screaming as loud as loud as she can, " Bear, Bear,......Beeaaarr". She suddenly found herself surrounded by cops and animal control people (that’s Dogcatcher for you rubes who live in the sticks) :biglaugh: eventually she got it all straightened out and meanwhile the dog had wandered back home.
They quit doing those calls. :)
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Bears around here have been on a big comeback in the last 20 years even with a big, traditional dog/bear hunting season. If we had reverse 911 calls because of bears the calls would be more annoying than the bears. There is a power pole on my driveway that has new bear hairs and teeth marks(marking post) almost on a daily basis. I can always tell when a bear is around. Our dog Maggie runs a perimeter around the house with her barking. Last night in our bedroom Maggie started growling about 2am even with doors and windows closed. When she started barking I let her out. I guess she shut up about 4.
Weather has been beautiful lately, Mark. Low 70s daytime, low 50s at night.
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I got the first layer of sinew on today. Once I got all my supplies close at hand I plugged in the crock pot, added water and floated a stainless bowl with the hydrating glue. While sinewing I keep a bowl of warm water and a damp towel handy to clean glue from my hands as I apply it. The hide glue can get quite sticky. Then I took the bow to the kitchen sink and scrubbed it with hot water and Dawn dish soap...
(https://i.imgur.com/3UTLY9y.jpg)
...then rinsed it with boiling water...
(https://i.imgur.com/tpjEPH7.jpg)
...I reattached it to the form with the sinew strand and sized the bows back 2 times over about 30 minutes, from tip to tip across the handle...
(https://i.imgur.com/YS9U7fM.jpg)
...then started laying the sinew. I hydrate the sinew in warm water first, grab a small bundle of sinew, shake the excess water off and dip it in the hide glue. Once it is saturated well with glue I squeegee off the excess glue with my fingers and lay it down the center of both limbs starting at the handle and work out to the tips. Then I fill in along both limbs trying to use equal amounts of sinew for both limbs.
Here's the sinew going across the handle first...
(https://i.imgur.com/sGTGYiO.jpg)
...then filing in along both limbs...
(https://i.imgur.com/oIwonEa.jpg)
...from tip to tip
(https://i.imgur.com/knZdhhJ.jpg?1)
Some of the sinew I'm using is relatively short(4" to 6") so the application is a bit rough so I have wrapped the limbs with strips of old flannel shirt. This should compress the wet sinew and help smooth out the surface. I'll take the wrap off tomorrow, check the sinew coverage and fill in the bare spots with sinew. Then the waiting really begins.
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Looking good Pat. That Dawn dish soap is it something special or is it just ordinary dish soap?
I use mostly moose leg tendons which have some lenght so I have started to comb out the sinew bundles on a board after soaking in the glue, before laying on the bow. I use a cat comb like the one in the picture.
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Bue, Dawn is just another dish soap but it is a very good grease cutter. It is used after oil spills to clean oil off of birds and small mammals.
I need to get one of those combs for my next sinew backed bow. Wish I had moose sinew. I think what I used was cow sinew. I used it on another bow but that was with the longer strands.
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After 2 days of drying I went back this morning to "filled in the blanks", areas that needed a little more sinew. I first gave the entire back a fresh sizing coat then added the needed sinew. Once that dries I'll take more pics, then she'll get put up for a long curing session. I'll check her out after a month with more pics and updates. For now, I'll keep her in out utility room, the room in our house with the most constant temp and humidity. After I crank up the dehumidifier in the basement I'll put her down there for a good, long drying session.
Modify message
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...what I added this morning...
(https://i.imgur.com/oEU5wK9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eFYVDy1.jpg)
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Very cool, Pat...
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Tomorrow, June 2 is 2 weeks since the sinew went on "Phoenix" so I'll release her from the form and see what's up. I know I'll have to retiller and reduce weight. Once that's done I'll know where we stand. I'll post pics.
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:bigsmyl:
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Damn, thats a lot of work :notworthy: Very impressive.
Glad to see I'm not the only one with a triple beam :thumbsup:
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She's been released...
from here
(https://i.imgur.com/TFmaujT.jpg)
to here
(https://i.imgur.com/N7O0idR.jpg)
Not much reflex remains but she should still have enough. I guess we'll see after retillering and a little weight reduction.
this shows how the sinew strap was placed under the sinew backing, holding the bow in reflex. First just after cutting free...
(https://i.imgur.com/Qq25XHQ.jpg)
then once the tags were cut free...
(https://i.imgur.com/0QEq7KQ.jpg)
I'm gonna let her rest for a few days before going any further. I noticed while working with this bow why she fretted. Because I kept the belly flat I didn't follow the back completely and where knots or swells on the back made the limb thicker in places the areas between these thicker areas is where she fretted. Some woods may not have fretted but locust is very susceptible to fretting so you can see it didn't take much to allow it to happen.
More to come later.
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:jumper: :dunno: a few days later :bigsmyl:
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I did brace her yesterday and almost gave myself a hernia. :o The brace height was shorter too but I shouldn't have to pre-stretch the string at least. :laughing:
Maybe next week I'll get some time to work on her. Our daughter is driving in from Houston today so we'll see.
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:thumbsup:
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I did a little scraping on the bow today. I went over places where I realized it was a bit thick then worked on both fade areas where it is still stiff. You can see the stiff fades in this pic. It looks like a hinge starting on the left limb but I believe it is an illusion from the block mortar joint because I don't see it with my naked eyes.
(https://i.imgur.com/tTJya2u.jpg)
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Well done, Pat.
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:thumbsup:
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Got a little more done on the bow yesterday, got her to brace height then pulled to 26" even put 25 arrows through her. She shoots well but seems to stack right at my full draw. I guess I should have kicked the tips up a bit to prevent that but too late now.
Here are a full braced and 26" draw. The fades still look unbending in the pic but to my naked eye it doesn't. I have worked on both fades to get them reduced so they will bend a bit. Top limb is on the left..
.
(https://i.imgur.com/eYzKl4u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AAp88Ds.jpg)
...and I added an extension to the shelf with a piece of shoe leather. I'll shape it better once the glue dries.
(https://i.imgur.com/y3NHFcn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XaGnIqs.jpg)
...to be continued...
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Looks nice, Pat
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:thumbsup:
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Well, it's been a month since I last posted this bow rebuild. I've been waiting for a covering for the sinew backing. I got 2 snake skins that are very nice skins but they are a bit different from each other so I decided to go with thin rawhide. I received rawhide from 3 different people on PA. The rawhide I got from Outback Bob suited this bow the best so today I applied it.
First I cut the strip Bob sent me into 2, 2" wide strips and cut them to length then washed in warm water with Dawn dish soap, rinsed them well and let them soak until I was ready to apply them.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3jFmfv.jpg)
I put the bow back on the form holding the handle down with a strip of sinew and raised the tips on 2x4 blocks to prepare for applying the rawhide...
(https://i.imgur.com/0UlxWgJ.jpg)
I then dried the excess water off the rawhide, laid them out flat and sized with hide glue and sized the sinew backing on the bow with glue too...
(https://i.imgur.com/KFOicmL.jpg)
...and applied the rawhide. I worked out any air bubbles and wrapped rubber bands around the bow at the flared to insure good adhesion there...
(https://i.imgur.com/rQ6u3Cb.jpg)
...and now I ask for your patience again. I have the bow on the form in my basement where I keep a dehumidifier running all the time during the summer so that should help with the drying. I think I'll wait at least a week before I release it.
...more to come...
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Nice Pat :goldtooth:
Looking forward to it finished :thumbsup:
Pat do you use Dawn and boiling water for ALL staves?
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Thats Awesome! You got skills :thumbsup:
That Rawhide looks like a nice canvas for some of your art work
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Pretty nice job ole timer..
:thumbsup:
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Thanks guys. Flem, that was my intention. Now to figure out what.
Roy, just wait til Wednesday then I'll really be old...71! :o :bigsmyl:
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Hell wait till ya hit 73.. LOL
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I can wait. :bigsmyl:
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Pat do you use Dawn and boiling water for ALL staves using sinew ?
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Mark, I degrease any stave I put a rawhide, sinew or snake skins with Dawn and rinse with boiling water. On the sinew backing on this bow I use acetone on the sinew to degrease as not to hydrate the sinew with so much moisture. I know the acetone would evaporate quickly without adversely affecting the sinew/hide glue.
It doesn't take much grease to foul these backings, even a finger print can cause adverse affects so I find degreasing important.
On board staves I plan to back with hickory or boo I just sand both glue surface completely and brush the dust off with a stiff hand brush.
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:thumbsup:
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After a few days in the dehumidified basement the rawhide and the sinew it covered are very dry so I opted to get on with it. I remover the bow from the form and with the fine side of a farriers rasp I rasped the excess rawhide from the sides...
(https://i.imgur.com/fukVqjS.jpg)
...then used a very sharp razor to trim the rawhide along the edges and on the sides of the fades...
(https://i.imgur.com/4kjkwek.jpg)
...and sand papered the edges of the rawhide smooth...
(https://i.imgur.com/3HYVo5P.jpg)
...and here she is just waiting for some decorations...
(https://i.imgur.com/2kUCZx7.jpg)
...more to come...
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Very nice, Pat..
Gonna look sharp with pictures and stuff on her.
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Yep, I think so, Roy.
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...and now for the handle wrap. First I seal the handle area with a couple of coats of Tru-Oil. Once they are dry(over night) I start the wrap. I like to use hemp cord because it giver a positive grip and it looks traditional. This time O opted to use 2 color hemp cord, dark brown and tan. I did this first on the boo backed bow I made last year and liked the look. I start out at one end and wrap the first few wraps over the tag end keeping the strands separate...
(https://i.imgur.com/gisg0dO.jpg)
...and work up the handle keeping both strands tight. When I get close to the other end I lay a loop of thread down and wrap over it...
(https://i.imgur.com/Ba2RDTp.jpg)
...at the end of the wrap I tuck the tag ends into the loop...
(https://i.imgur.com/vb0UUcf.jpg)
...and pull it through holding the handle wrap tight...
..(https://i.imgur.com/8lcD5m5.jpg)
...and cut off the tags between the handle wrap strands...
(https://i.imgur.com/iAHrXUk.jpg)
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Now to seal the handle wrap. I use Massey finish, 2 ton epoxy diluted with acetone. I don't have a recipe but mix to a watery consistency. For an applicator I use a rolled up paper towel.
(https://i.imgur.com/uVOaM7O.jpg)
...I saturate it then daub it along the handle wrap making sure the wrap is completely saturated. (https://i.imgur.com/JryMYCz.jpg)
One thing I left out above...this hemp cord has "hairs" that stick out and especially after the wrap so once the wrap is done I use a cigarette lighter to burn off the hairs then I saturate the handle wrap with the Massey finish...
(https://i.imgur.com/c0oiufd.jpg)
I've used the hemp cord wrap for handles for a few years now. It gives a positive grip, with the Massey finish it is totally weather resistant and it makes an attractive handle wrap.
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Nice!
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1/3 cup Acetone with that epoxy can be sprayed with a gun
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I don't need no stinking gun. I have rolled up paper towels. :thumbsup:
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You tell em Pat:)
:laughing: :thumbsup:
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You saidddddddddddd Quote "I don't have a recipe but mix to a watery consistency. For an applicator I use a rolled up paper towel". :readit: :tongue:
I've used it to spray on bows and it works good.
Recipe
1/3 cup Acetone with that epoxy can be sprayed with a gun :cheesy:
:biglaugh:
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Thanks for that valuable info, Mark. I'm sure sprayed on it would give good protection and weather proofing.
Dang, Roy, that boy up /|\ there is pretty sensitive. :dunno: ;) :laughing:
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He might be wearing his pink skirt today?
:laughing: :dunno:
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Thanks for that valuable info, Mark. I'm sure sprayed on it would give good protection and weather proofing.
Dang, Roy, that boy up /|\ there is pretty sensitive. :dunno: ;) :laughing:
:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
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I did a wrap like that with heavy cotton twine and saturated it with water based poly. Worked great for years and probably still going.
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Yeah, Mike. It's a very durable handle wrap with a positive grip. I like this hemp cord because it's thin and strong. I get it at Wal Mart. I wish it came in other colors.
Mark, I should have said I don't use a recipe instead of I don't have a recipe. :dunno:
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:biglaugh:
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Pat, I learn something new on about every post you do. Thanks so much for sharing.
Bill
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Coming along Nice Pat :thumbsup: :bigsmyl:
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Pat, I learn something new on about every post you do. Thanks so much for sharing.
Bill
X2
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You make my day, guys. I love passing on info that has been given to me over the years. Gotta do something with it. My brain is getting filled up and I see no end in sight.
"Someone shoot up amounst us, one of us needs some relief" (Jerry Clower) :thumbsup:
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Here are the last pics of this bow. Unfortunately the frets have returned so her life is limited now. I think I'll just use
her as a wall hanger.
The lightning bolts were painted with craft paint and she got 4 coats of Tru-Oil over the rawhide back covering. I will spray the bow with satin poly to cut the shine of the Tru-Oil. I like that look better than the shiny Tru-Oil finish. She shoots pretty good and looks damn good, if you ask me, but no sense beating a dead horse! :deadhorse:
Well, anyway here are her final pics...RIP!
(https://i.imgur.com/VdvuzNQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CHtMOMW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bFVyzIy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PCkTjll.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/138CdB4.jpg)
This has been a fun project. Even though she won't be a viable bow I hope the info I've put out over this long thread will help someone with their bow building anf decorating.
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Man that sucks, Pat.
Be a pretty wall hanger.
Don't feel bad, mad maxie boy has a room full of wall hangers:)
:laughing:
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Pat I met BowEd at MoJam and he was talking about sinew bows with thin horn on the belly.
I'm sure James could thickness sand some for you. :dunno:
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Yeah, it was a bummer but it was an experiment anyway. I was wondering if she would fret again and she didn't let me down.
Mark, I thought about an osage or ipe belly slat but I think I'll leave her to RIP. I'll give her a place of honor in the basement shop. I've been thinking about my next build, maybe a Molle style and use some of Bue's moose sinew on it. It's a design I've thought about often.
Hopefully there is some useful info for folks in this thread. If so, she's a success. :thumbsup:
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Don't feel bad, mad maxie boy has a room full of wall hangers:)
:laughing:
No I did nt :tongue:
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I just want to know if you had named it yet :wavey:
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I had a few names floating around my head but she never told me which one. I guess she had a premonition. :)