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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 10:54:07 AM

Title: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 10:54:07 AM: After an allergic reaction to osage sanding dust last night, I have been looking for some information about dust filters and air helmets. I have been thinking about this for a while, but now it’s clear that I need to bite the bullet and get something.
I have a good dust collector for my machinery, but I am thinking of some kind of powered air helmet as I hate wearing non powered filters.
What, if anything, do you all use in your shops?
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 09, 2021, 11:00:52 AM: I don't have a helmet but wear a mask and goggles at times. What I don't like is when wearing a mask, the goggles and or my glasses fog up. So I would check into something that prevents the fogging up of the glasses or face shield.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 11:11:51 AM: I wear glasses too, so fogging is a problem. Add to that, I hate wearing a regular filter. ( more so after the last year of having to wear one all day at work.)
I’m looking at powered air helmets. They run from about $600 to $3000.
I was hoping that someone here might have experience with one or more that they could share.
I’m also thinking about the shop air filter like the one you have in your shop Roy, but my focus is a wearable unit.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Lefty38-55 on March 09, 2021, 11:12:17 AM: FWIW I have to wear a 3M NIOSH VOC-rated facemask whilst working with mahogany (on boat stuff, not archery, haha), else I'll suffer with BAD sinus issues for DAYS! I am an eyeglass wearer, and it doesn't cause my glasses to fog up.

We did buy powered external-air supply 'helmets' for cleaning our local gun club's indoor range filters, but I wasn't involved and don't know the brand - sorry.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 11:18:18 AM: I’m starting to have the same problem after a lifetime of working with wood.
I have a regular heavy duty filter mask at work that I had to wear while handling chemicals. I find it hard to breathe through and uncomfortable.
Problem with wood dust is that once you become sensitized to one type of wood, you will have problems with others too.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: williwaw on March 09, 2021, 11:31:44 AM: Quote from: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 11:18:18 AM
I’m starting to have the same problem after a lifetime of working with wood.
I have a regular heavy duty filter mask at work that I had to wear while handling chemicals. I find it hard to breathe through and uncomfortable.
Problem with wood dust is that once you become sensitized to one type of wood, you will have problems with others too.
Dave.

pretty much the same here, so I use mostly cutting tools on wood and avoid sanding. my belt sander has 36 grit and it cuts more than sand.. all dusty operations are done outside nowadays and preferbly while standing upwind in a stiff breeze. A reaction will put me out for days with with respiratory crud and that would not be a good time to catch covid.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 09, 2021, 11:47:51 AM: Check out the 3M PAPR systems. They have powered and non-powered versions. We have one at work and the guys love it for sanding, however, our Bio-Environmental Engineers have NOT cleared us to use it while spraying paint (our paints contain Hex-Chrome and Isocyanates).
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 09, 2021, 01:05:53 PM: I wear a 3M 7000 series full face mask for anything irritating or toxic. I don't really like a mask either, but the thought of dragging a hose around that is attached to my face is even less appealing. I know you can adapt 3M 6000 or 7000 to positive pressure, just have to get a little creative. I was also wondering if a CPAP machine would work. If the primary concern is dust, the filter masks are much more pleasant to wear with the fabric filters than the heaver vapor cartridges.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 09, 2021, 01:51:34 PM: They make a forced air adapter for the 6000 and 7000 series respirators. It's a hose on a belt that screws into a port under the exhaust port cover.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 01:59:01 PM: Thanks guys. I’m looking at the 3m versaflow. It’s about $2200 Cdn. on Amazon. More elsewhere.
There’s an all in one unit for about $600 but I’m not sure if I want a battery and motor on top of my head. Plus, I read that accessories for it are pricey.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 09, 2021, 03:26:49 PM: I just ordered the versaflo 300. It was cheaper, even with $94 shipping, to order from the US.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 09, 2021, 10:16:23 PM: That Versaflo unit looks nice :thumbsup:
I could not find any filtration info other than "High efficiency" Can you get a variety of filters for it?
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 10, 2021, 04:20:32 PM: The one I ordered has a hepa filter on it. There are other packages with different filters that say they’re good for vapors or gases. It’s a bit confusing buying one because there are a few models that are very similar and you have to watch what accessories you order for it because they might not fit.
I’m going to order a box of clear covers to protect the visor. Even there I found I had to shop carefully. One seller has a box of 10 for $42 and another has a box of 40 for $70.
It’s a lot of money, but this is no place to cheap out and I would lose my mind if I had to stop working with wood.
There is an air helmet from the UK that has the battery and motor built in. It’s a lot cheaper, but I’m not sure if I want the weight on my head plus I read reviews that said parts are very expensive.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 10, 2021, 04:46:32 PM: That's an excellent mentality Dave. Whenever we need safety equipment and I don't like the price, I just ask myself if my life is worth $___. Feel better every time!
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 10, 2021, 04:54:33 PM: My family agrees too. When I said that I was looking for an air helmet for dust protection, the first thing they said was don’t buy a cheap one.
I never had a bad reaction to wood dust before. It’s a really crappy feeling and at my age it takes a few days to get over it.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 11, 2021, 04:20:24 AM: Dave you are on the right track.

10 years ago I had a very serious reaction to IPE.

I still have lingering problems from that.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 12, 2021, 09:34:49 AM: Never had a reaction to wood dust, knock on wood! What exactly is the experience?

I have been thinking it would be nice to have a remote fresh air supply when spraying 2K finishes. Can those masks be adapted for a longer run of hose?
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 12, 2021, 10:04:33 AM: The reaction depends on the person. For me my sinuses went nuts. I was so stuffed up that I had a bit of difficulty breathing. I couldn’t get to sleep that night and I ended up staying home from work. I took extra strength Reactine and it barely had an effect. That was Monday night and Tuesday. Today I’m still a bit stuffed up. Looking back, there were warning signs. I recently started using a wood lathe and the dust from turning gets thrown right at me when sanding on it. I was getting a bit stuffed up but it wasn’t bad. A few years ago I built a couple of bows using pau ferro and it’s dust made me itch a bit.
If you get an air helmet like the one I ordered, you don’t need a hose extension. The battery, motor and filter ride on a belt pack with a hose that goes up to the back of the helmet. My foreman at work told me that he used to use one and he really liked it. The cool air flowing over your face is a bonus on hot days.
I’m really looking forward to trying it out.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 12, 2021, 10:11:08 AM: That sounds really unpleasant. I was thinking of a remote supply for isocyanates and the like, where filtration won't work.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 12, 2021, 10:24:24 AM: For that, I would speak to a rep at 3m. They must have a setup for that.
I used to work with expanding foam for packaging valves for shipping. I didn’t need protection for every day work but I did when I replaced used up barrels, one of which contained isocyanates. I sure was happy to see that system go. We replaced it with packing paper.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 12, 2021, 11:36:55 AM: Quote
Never had a reaction to wood dust, knock on wood! What exactly is the experience?

With IPE, that night after being exposed to it in the shop, my face looked like I fell into a campfire.

Went to dermatologist next day, gave me a shot of steroid and steroid pills.

Few days later my whole body was so itchy and looked like I had the chickenpox.

Back to dermatologist, more steroids and had to start using free and gentle laundry soap, hand soap, special shampoo, had to wash all my cloths, blankets, and towels.

Still use all that to this day.

Every so often I'll get a rash and have to put a special medicated cream on it to clear it up.

The reaction messed up my immune system.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 12, 2021, 11:43:14 AM: I remember when you told us about your reaction to ipe and what it did to you. That’s another reason why I bought the air helmet.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 12, 2021, 12:41:36 PM: It’s not just wood we have to be careful of. As bowyers, we use epoxy and a variety of finishes, some of which are sensitizers. Once you develop an allergy to something, it only gets worse from there.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 12, 2021, 12:43:05 PM: Being an old fart doesn’t help either. It seems to me that I was damn near bullet proof when I was younger. 🤬
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 12, 2021, 12:45:22 PM: :thumbsup: Flem

:thumbsup: Dave
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 13, 2021, 08:53:07 AM: I spent about 5 minutes sanding the barrel channel of a walnut stock yesterday without my mask, I knew I was messing up. This morning the first order of business was coughing up walnut dust to clear my lungs, I couldn't have breathed more than a few microns, that is all it took.

Dust allergies have just about taken the fun of bow building away from me.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 13, 2021, 08:56:01 AM: That’s what I’m afraid of. Getting to the point that even a small amount of dust will affect me. I’ll happily wear an air helmet if it keeps me in the shop.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 13, 2021, 10:25:52 AM: There is a new allergy treatment that sounds like a witch doctor but but is showing promise, it is a type of acupuncture that resets the receptors that cause allergies to develop.

One guy who had had Alfa Gal tried it an claimed he was cured. I can't remember the treatment name but one can probably google it.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 13, 2021, 10:54:56 AM: There’s a thread about it on the pow wow. It’s something I will keep in mind in case my allergy gets bad.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 13, 2021, 11:51:18 AM: It took about 20 years for my sensitivity to dust to come to the surface, it got worse and worse every year. Used to be it was only from walnut, then osage joined the que and now even a pine board through the bandsaw starts my nose running.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 13, 2021, 12:21:24 PM: I've noticed lately that when I sand boo down to a flat back that my face burns later in the day.

First thing I do now when I come inside is wash the face neck and hands and change cloths.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 13, 2021, 12:53:59 PM: You can’t avoid sanding when you’re using bamboo, but I do as much thinning of it on my jointer before I hit it with the belt sander.
You have to be focused on what you’re doing if you decide to use the jointer. It can be a little exciting at times. 😁
So far, I have only begun to have problems with a very few woods. Pau ferro, then very mildly with walnut and now osage. I work with pine and spruce all day at work but there’s not much dust as I only need to saw it to size and I asked them to install a decent dust collector there.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 13, 2021, 12:54:59 PM: Hey Roy, 18000 posts on your next one! 👍🏻
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 13, 2021, 12:56:27 PM: LOL, maybe I type too much:)
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Longcruise on March 13, 2021, 02:46:14 PM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on March 13, 2021, 12:56:27 PM
LOL, maybe I type too much:)

That one did it! :) you don't type too much Roy. Always good information. Specially when you hide on Shreddy. :laughing:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 13, 2021, 10:40:29 PM: I got sensitized to CA glue last year. I filled the grain on a riser in the garage and it burned the crap out of my nose. Spent three days all stopped up. Now if the fumes are strong enough to burn my nose at all I will be stopped up the rest of the day.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 14, 2021, 11:27:30 AM: Everybody should be sensitive to CA glues! It's caustic stuff and carcinogenic. I always wear a vapor cartridge mask when using it.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 16, 2021, 06:57:41 PM: Got my air helmet! 😁

Got it all set up, battery charging. I can’t wait to try it out.
Oh well, it will have to be tomorrow... 😕
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 16, 2021, 07:01:47 PM: :thumbsup:

Awesome...
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: EvilDogBeast on March 16, 2021, 07:32:51 PM: Like...
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 16, 2021, 10:27:43 PM: Awesome! Looking forward to a review :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Buemaker on March 17, 2021, 10:50:20 AM: Looks good, you must tell us how it works. Language is a strange thing, the word dust translated to Norwegian means something like idiot. :)
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 17, 2021, 11:26:02 AM: Maybe thats a reference to the idiots who inhale dust :tongue:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Buemaker on March 17, 2021, 12:36:33 PM: :laughing:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 17, 2021, 04:46:33 PM: I tried it on in the house last night after charging the battery. It’s not too heavy or loud and I like the breeze blowing over my face. I think it will be nice in hot weather.
I’ll give it a good workout on the weekend and I’ll let you know what I think.
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 17, 2021, 06:17:42 PM: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 18, 2021, 09:36:55 AM: Can you wear glasses with your helmet Dave?
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 18, 2021, 04:41:05 PM: Yup! Glasses no problem. 😁
I have a day off tomorrow so I’ll try to give it a run and I’ll let you guys know what I think. So far I like it. It looks to be well made and most parts, if not all, are replaceable. The helmet part is an actual impact resistant construction helmet with a fully adjustable suspension and it comes with a thin film that you put on over the visor to protect it from scratching. I bought a package of 40 of the visor cover films. You have to shop around a bit for those. One place sells 10 for $42 and another place sells 40 for $70. 🤔
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 18, 2021, 05:38:01 PM: Dave, we need a selfie wif you wearing it:)
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 18, 2021, 05:39:58 PM: I’ll see what I can do...
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 18, 2021, 08:18:19 PM: Here you go. It’s not too easy to take a selfie with an iPad, hence the funny angle.
Luke, I am your father...😉
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 18, 2021, 08:48:09 PM: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 20, 2021, 05:00:43 PM: I was able to try out the air helmet this afternoon. I was cutting lots of small pieces of maple, walnut and padauk so I put it on and I’m very happy with it. The padauk really brought home to me how well it works. It has a peculiar smell to it when it’s cut or sanded. When I wore the helmet, I couldn’t smell it. I was comfortable with it on and I hardly noticed the sound of the fan motor. The air blowing through the helmet felt good too. I’m going to love it when it’s hot.
After I was done cutting, I took it off and I noticed that it was covered in red dust.
I never really paid attention to this before. The amount of dust on the outside of the helmet was surprising. I can only imagine how much dust I have breathed in over the years. I always tell people that you are what you eat and I have eaten a lot of wood. 😁
Dave.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 20, 2021, 05:20:07 PM: Ah Dave

LMFAO:)
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: Flem on March 20, 2021, 06:08:33 PM: Wow, thats great. Good for you, glad you found a solution :thumbsup:
I like that it fits over your head and is not strapped on. Thats what gets fatiguing for me, having the thing ratcheted down on my face.
Looks like you have to wear in ear hearing protection. Cant see how to get muffs on with that helmet.
Title: Re: Dust
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 20, 2021, 06:11:43 PM: 3M has ear muffs that clip onto the helmet. They can be flipped out of the way when you don’t need them.
When I need them, I have a fitted in ear set from work.
Dave.