I purchased a couple of hickory staves from Linc a couple of months ago. After reading a post from John Scrifes, I decided to take him up on his challage to post a bow build along. What I hope to build is a 67.5" 55 pound @ 28" hickory flatbow. I would like to put elk antler tips on this bow. I purchased some rawhide for this bow, but I am not sure if I will be using the rawhide for backing. I am currently using 2 main sources of information for this project. I am using The Bent Stick as well as the video Building Bows from White Woods with Murray Gaskins.
I have already layed out the bow and have started making shavings. The bow is 2" wide at the fades and will taper to 5/8" at the tips. The biggest challenge for me up to now is keeping the limbs flat and matching both limbs. The limbs are just starting to bend. I will try to get some pictures of the limbs bending.
I do have some questions. When do I need to attach the elk limb tip protectors? What glue should I use for the elk? I am sure I will have more questions later.
Here are a few pictures of my progress up to now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0631.jpg)
back of bow
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0634.jpg)
Handle area
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0640.jpg)
Side profile
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0638.jpg)
The lines on the belly are to mark every 4". I number each individual area to help me keep track when matching the limbs to one another.
More to follow as I make progress.
Shawn
Cool! Show me how to do it 'cause I got a bunch of staves sitting here waiting to be bows. :)
Yea you got my attention.I'm going to keep an eye on this thread and start collecting some staves myself.I have lots of hickory around here.Good luck Shawn, looks good so far
Real nice !!!
Sweet. Keep up the good work!
WOW, great work so far Shawn.
Elk antler can wait till bow is ready for finishing. I have had good luck with TB II for gluing them on,not that most would recomment it.
I, too, mark every 4" (on the sides) to help keep the limbs in proportion. Doesn't matter, I still tend to get the bottom limb too limber! LOL
I just glued up some antler tips with titebond 3 that seems to work well.
Did you dry your hickory out well? I've found 6% not to be too dry for this wood. Hickory can take a set pretty easy for a novice like me.
Thanks for the build along.
I have been a little sidetracked with warm weather (AKA yard work) and the fact that I was all ready to do a little stumpin' only to discover I had no more stumpin' arrows. The arrows are just about done. I have to work tonight and Wednesday night. I hope to get back at it Thursday. It is starting to bend while floor tillering. I have decided to go ahead and use the rawhide for backing. I will also be attaching the elk antler tip overlays.
Now comes the questions.
1) What order do I attach the rawhide and overlays?
2) Should I can cut my string grooves after attaching the overlays.
3) Does the rawhide need to go all the way to the tip? If so, do I attach the overlays right over the rawhide?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Shawn
I will be taking pictures on Thursday. More to come...
Put on the overlays and then cut your string nocks.
Put on the rawhide up to the overlays.
Thank you John. That was the info I was looking for.
Shawn: I've been making some hickory bows lately and I wanted to know how you decided on the limb width profile? It looks like your fade width is carried parallel for about 1/2+ of the limb length. Is that from Comstock's book?
That's a nice looking stave. I didn't know Linc had any straight wood. :)
Bob,
Both Mr. Comstock and Mr. Gaskins suggest a 2"wide bow from the fades to 1/2 way down the limbs. I did take it further than 1/2 way. I figure I can always remove some wood from the limbs if needed. According to both men, a 2" wide limb from the fades to about 1/2 way down the limb and then tapered to about 5/8" at the tips will make a durable bow. My goal is to have a bow that will not explode in my face at full draw. I hope to get some time to make some shavings tonight.
Shawn
Very interested to see this. I am wanting to try my hand at a hickory selfbow(my first attempt) and like to see these build-a-longs. I can learn more with a few pics than from pages of words.
:archer:
Time to attach the elk antler for the tip overlays.
I broke out the elk antler and went to work.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0651.jpg)
Here are the tools I used. Bandsaw, rasp, clamps, Titebond3, and a toothing plane.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0649.jpg)
I cut out a couple of pieces to use as the overlays. I used a rasp to flatten the bottom of the elk.
Once the overlay pieces looked about right to me, I grapped my toothing plane to put grooves in the tips for better adhesion.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0652.jpg)
Here is the elk clamped to the tip of the bow.
More to follow after the glue dries. I intend to shape the tips and cut the string grooves. Once that is done, I will apply the rawhide.
Shawn
Looking good, Shawn. Jawge
did you ruff sand the back of the antler pieces?
I grooved both the limb tips and the antler pieces prior to attaching the antler. I was thinking this morning that I should have used a dark piece of wood in between the limb tips and the antler. That would have looked nice. I will have to do that on my next bow. I hope to get the rawhide on today.
Shawn
I shaped the elk antler overlays this morning.
Here are the tools I used:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0653.jpg)
The saw is a tile saw I happened to see at the hardware store the other day. It worked well for cutting the string grooves. I put the masking tape at the end of the piece of elk to protect the limb while filing (nice tip Ferret).
I could not get a quality photo of the finished overlays. I will work on that.
The following link is to Ferrets rawhide attaching tutorial. It is very well done. I did not have any Ace bandage, so I used an old bucycle innertube. I did not apply the tube until the glue started to set. I hope that worked. We'll see on Sunday.
http://tradgang.com//noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000036
Here are the tools I used:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0657.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0659.jpg)
One limb almost finished.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0660.jpg)
Second limb with innertube attached.
More to come on Sunday.
Shawn
Looking good man.....following with interest. I need to start building one soon.
I have some good news, and I also have a problem. First for the good news. I figured out how to select the Macro setting on my camera. Now I can take the pictures of the overlays that I could not yesterday.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0666.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0667.jpg)
Elk antler overlay.
Now for the bad news. The rawhide is starting to lift in a few places. Here are some pics of what I am talking about.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0664.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0665.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0668.jpg)
It appears to only be lifting at the edges shown.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0670.jpg)
Is this colorization normal?
I am wondering if I should have scraped the rawhide prior to soaking in the warm water.
I figure I have a few of options.
1) Get a syringe and apply glue to lifted area and wrap.
2) Remove backing, scrape of existing glue on back of bow, and try again with my other set of rawhide.
3) I am not too sure about this one, but bevel the edge of the bow to remove lifted area.
Are there any other options?
I will wait for input from some of the resident experts before going any further with this project. I am in no hurry to mess this up.
Shawn
TTT
Moisten the lifted area a bit just to soften some. Do not soak it. Let it air dry for a few minutes. Squirt superglue in between hide and bow. Clamp well. I have done this many times and never had a problem. It works with sinew too.
Shawn: on one of my recent hickory bows I had nocks cut exactly like yours. Thin distinct groove cut on the side of the limb. When I was shooting the bow in I kept hearing or feeling this very slight "tic" which obviously makes a bow builder flinch. Turns out it was the string loop flipping over that outer "lip" on the side of the limb as I reached full draw. Sanding off the outer lip fixed the problem.
Missed the coloration question. Looks to me like the glue is not dry????
Shawn, The coloration is nothing to worry about.I've had that on a few backings. :thumbsup:
Lost Arra - Thanks for the input on the grooves. I was planning on doing a little more work on the grooves prior to stringing the bow. I will take care of that lip.
When I get the lifting issue resolved, I may go ahead and apply some snake skins over the rawhide. I do not like how bright the back of the bow looks. That can be taken care of later on in this project.
Thanks again for input Lost, John, and Linc!!!
Shawn
Shawn, Like Linc said the coloration shouldn't be any problem. I had that happen a few times when using calf rawhide because it was so thick. You don't need much rawhide to protect the bow and the bow will perform better with less weight on the limbs. I thin my rawhide down with a palm sander and cabinet scraper until I am able to see through it.
Great thread. Thanks. I have two hickory staves I got last year, intend to use this as help.
Shawn, your wood shop is entirely too neat. LOL:)
I got some time last night to try to remedy the lifting issue. It did not take too long for me to realize that the rawhide was not going to adhere to the back of the bow. As a matter of fact, it pealed right off. I learned a couple of things from this experience.
1) As Walt said, thin the rawhide down until you can see through it. The thicker areas of the rawhide just did not adhere as well as the thinner areas.
2)I wiped down the back of the bow to remove any dirt/particles, but I did not wipe down the rawhide. The experts can correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems logical that one should also wipe down the rawhide.
I tried to remove the glue and thick portions from the rawhide. That did not work so well. I ended up tearing the rawhide. I am pretty sure I can use it on a shorter bow sometime in the future. I was able to get most of the glue removed from the back of the bow. I still have a little more sanding to do. The toothing plane sure did a good job. There was no pealing the glue from the stave. I would still like to back this bow. I am going to back it with some snakeskins. I will need to check out the TradGang sponsors and order a set from one of them.
In the meantime, I will continue removing the glue from the back of the bow. When that is finished, I will attach a long string and start the tillering process. I will probably not get a chance to get back to the bow until Friday evening.
I can't say that I am too happy about the rawhide not working out, but it is a good learning experience. That is what this whole build along is all about.
Bowman0202, it looks like I got you fooled. It is what is outside the picture that constitutes a messy shop. ;)
Shawn
Looking good Shawn. Keep it up, I am looking forward to seeing this bow!
Mike
Shawn: did you soak the rawhide in water until it became limp before gluing? I am assuming you did if you used Ferret's website but I can't tell from your photos.
What about a thin coat of glue on the damp limp rawhide surface before applying it?
The rawhide was soaked prior to attaching to the bow. I did not apply a thin coat of glue to the rawhide. I think the biggest problem was not scraping and cleaning the rawhide prior to glue-up.
I did order snakeskins and TB4 from Pine Hollow. They should add a nice touch to this project.
Appreciating everyones input!!!
Shawn
My guess is that the rubber didn't let the titebond set up fast enough. No air flow. On my laminated bows where there wasn't a space between wrappings the excess glue was still wet after 24 hours.
I made rawhide out of last season's deer and both had coloration like that. I will use my orbital sander to clean and thin before I use it to back a bow but deer hide dries very thin to begin with.
Looking forward to seeing it finished.
I did not get to do a whole lot on my bow today. I was too busy digging in the yard. When I finally got time to work on the bow, I was just too worn out. I do not need to make any stupid mistakes because I was too tired to think straight.
I attached a long string to the bow and put her on the tillering tree. Here is what I saw.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0673.jpg)
This is with the bow being drawn about 4". It bends a little, but I have a long way to go.
I broke out my Tillering Gizmo and got to work making shavings.
Here is what she looks like pulling 6" at 50 pounds.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0674.jpg)
She is definitely stiff at the fades.
I will try to do some more work on her in the morning.
Be sure to call your mother tomorrow and wish her a Happy Mothers Day.
Shawn
Shawn, At this stage it looks to be bending the way that it should be bending.I wouldn't mess with the fades just yet.Just take off full length till you get them bending some more. :thumbsup:
Have not gotten very far on this project. I was having some scraper issues. I got that resolved yesterday. I hope to get back to it Thursday. I have a meeting tonight. The snakeskins I ordered from arrived yesterday. I can not wait to put them on the bow. I will probably put them on Saturday night. I have to work nights Sunday through Tuesday, so that will give the glue plenty of time to set. I have to go overseas for a couple of weeks in June, so I am hoping to complete this bow prior to my departure. That being said, I will not rush to make the June deadline. I have ruined a couple of bows getting myself in a hurry. I will take it slow and get it rightthis time around. I will post some more pictures when I can show a little more progress. She has a ways to go before she can be called a bow.
Shawn
Shawn: I can't tell from your last post if you are going to put the snakeskins on before the bow is tillered or after.
With the cost of skins I don't apply the them until the bow is essentially complete and I've shot about a hundred arrows. Then I put the skins on, finish sanding and apply the finish coats of tru oil or poly or whatever.
If this was your plan, I apologize for sounding like a know-it-all :) but snakeskins are really just a decoration and will not protect the back of your bow like rawhide.
I am putting the snakeskins on for the purpose of having it in this build-along. I have never done one before, and figured any lesson I learn can be passed on to folks reading this post. I was planning on putting them on Saturday, but will wait until the bow is essentially complete per Lost Arras' suggestion.
Tillering will continue today or friday.
I appreciate the advice and encouragement from my TradGang family.
Shawn
She is starting to bend!!!
Prior to putting the bow on the tillering tree, I checked the moisture content. It is at 8%. Not much humidity here in Boise.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0676.jpg)
The bow is pulling 52pounds at 24". According to the tillering gizmo, it is also bending evenly. You may notice that I also put a string on the bow. It is braced at 3.5".
Now for some more questions.
I would like for this bow to be pulling 50pounds at 28" when I am finished. Should I start softening up the edges of the limbs now?
Would this be a good time to start using sandpaper instead of the scraper?
This is starting to get really exciting for me. I should be starting to launch some arrows pretty soon.
More to come....
Shawn
TTT
Looks like that left limb could be twisting some. I think you need to get that right limb bending more from the middle out. I'm just a beginner though.
I'd shoot it hundred times or so at 24". Then sand it out and see what your weight is. I bet you don't have to do a lot after that. Good job.
Shawn
I'm another interested eavesdropper and really like what I see and hear. Can someone tell me what a tillering gizmo is. I have a hickory project pending as well, all kinds of hickory but afraid to start, yet. Thanks for sharing your good and patient work.
Tillering gizmo (I haven't used the pencil update):
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000075
Thanks, Lost arra
Finally clued in, actually saved that thread - thought it was somnething else.
I finally got a chance to get back to the bow. I went ahead and shot a whole bunch of arrows. She was still pulling 50 pounds at 24 inches. I went ahead and started sanding. I rounded the edges and worked on forming the handle. She is pulling 58 pounds at 28" right now. I was aiming for 50 - 55 pounds, but decided to keep it a little on the heavier side for elk hunting. My next step will be to put on the snake skins. I hope to get to this on Monday.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0707.jpg)
Here she is braced.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0708.jpg)
Here are a couple at full draw. It looks like I need to work on keeping my elbow down.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0709.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0712-1.jpg)
I still have some work to do, but so far it has been a fun ride and a good learning experience. As soon as I finish this bow, I will likely start on another.
Shawn
Shawn,
Looks great! Lets go break her in on some stumps sometime soon!
Mike
Looks great Shawn. It will look really good with skins on it. :thumbsup:
Lookin good Shawn!!
Very nice, Shawn. Jawge
I got some hickory drying. I hope mine turn out as good as yours has!!!
REAL NICE!
Looks great nice work
I glued the snakeskin on the bow last night. I will try to get pictures up on Thursday.
I need to find some leather for the handle. If I do not find any locally by Friday, this project will go on hold for a couple of weeks. I have to travel on business.
Shawn
Today I removed the scales using duct tape. It removed most of the scales. I rubbed the remaining scales using my thumb. I did some preliminary cleaning up of the edges, but I still have a little more work to do. I weighed the bow and it is pulling 55# @ 28 inches. I launched about 30 arrows for some practice. I took some pictures, but the light is not really right for a clear photo. 1 picture turned out good enough to post. I will try to get some more pictures later this evening.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/bugtyer/IMG_0739.jpg)
Shawn
Some 4/0 steel wool works real well at getting the scales off, make sure you rub with the scales. Also a rubber sanding block with 220 grit cleans the edges good too. She's looking like a bow now Shawn.
Very nicely done. Thanks for posting.
Great job man! You done real good.
I Agree with the Above Comments!! Its a Good Looking, and from the Sound of it: Quite the Shooter as well!!! CONGRATS!! :notworthy: :notworthy:
Thanks for Sharing as Well, the Pictures are Very Good! :archer:
Thanks. That's a great job and very helpful - (even with a too neat shop:) What a pretty bow.
Great skin job Shawn. :bigsmyl:
Thank you for the kind replies. I hope to get a handle on her when I return from Japan.
Mr. Farr, I removed the bark from the other stave just before leaving town. I hope to get started on that stave once I finish this project.
Shawn