Post by: blacktailbob on July 26, 2020, 02:14:47 PM
This is what we had in central Florida last Nov. in Citrus WMA that opens for quota archery only. 48.000 acres overrun by jeeps opening weekend.
I saw this photo scene come down the road right after I left my stand. Counted well over 20 then five minutes later here comes another 8 form a cross road. No wonder I didn't see any deer till Monday and they were very edgy.
Post by: Sam McMichael on July 26, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
Post by: Tedd on July 26, 2020, 06:02:14 PM
Post by: Bruce M on July 26, 2020, 06:09:04 PM
Since I was 20, 35 years ago
Post by: Yooper-traveler on July 26, 2020, 06:18:35 PM
Post by: blacktailbob on July 26, 2020, 06:31:20 PM
Post by: Crittergetter on July 26, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Can you get farther away from the trails? 50,000 acres is a lot!
Post by: GCook on July 26, 2020, 07:35:29 PM
Post by: Dave Lay on July 26, 2020, 10:56:40 PM
Post by: Huntschool on July 26, 2020, 11:53:50 PM
I dont use trails with my 4WD at all. I do use those that are open to me a bit with the SxS but am quite selective about when and where. I dont go riding the woods during hunting season even though I have a state permit to use the SxS as a standing blind. I am fortunate to have my own land and a good bit of neighbors land to hunt and use the SxS for access.
I fear we are only going to see more of this as pressure from these user groups grows. I feel for those that are impacted by the misguided allowances of their State and in some cases Federal management use directives.
Just some thoughts.
Post by: Jon Stewart on July 27, 2020, 07:33:04 AM
Post by: Terry Green on July 27, 2020, 08:35:04 AM
Citrus WMA? The 50,000 acres that is is open to hiking, hunting, bird watching and yes FWD trails? That area? It’s legal Bob, you gotta deal with it.
Maybe...but he can still say it sucks... :campfire:
Post by: BAK on July 27, 2020, 09:14:48 AM
When I topped out and had this beautiful desert vista to my west there on the ground was a big oil stain, a used oil filter, and six empty oil cans, accompanied by 4 wheeler tracks everywhere. I remember how it bummed me out for the whole hunt. What idiots we often have to share the world with. :banghead:
Post by: reddogge on July 27, 2020, 09:46:54 AM
In more ways than one.
Post by: McDave on July 27, 2020, 10:17:21 AM
Sorry boys, but they are a bane on the landscape, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. I was a young lad stationed at Nellis AFB in 1974. I went with two other guys hunting mule deer up in the Shell Creek Range of east central NV. We camped in a deep narrow valley, and the next day I hiked for 4 hours to get up a steep ridge.
When I topped out and had this beautiful desert vista to my west there on the ground was a big oil stain, a used oil filter, and six empty oil cans, accompanied by 4 wheeler tracks everywhere. I remember how it bummed me out for the whole hunt. What idiots we often have to share the world with. :banghead:
Things have changed a lot since those days. I would guess 1974 would have been about the time people started becoming more aware of the impact of trash, etc., on the environment. When I was raised in Las Vegas during the ‘50’s, if you had a load of trash, you drove out into the desert until you found a convenient arroyo and dumped it. Not sneaking around; just normal. When Edward Abbey, sort of a cult hero to the counterculture naturalists of those days, published The Monkey Wrench Gang in 1975, he had his protagonist driving around the desert in his Jeep throwing his empty beer cans out the window as he finished drinking them, which nobody thought of as littering in those days, if the term even existed. This was the same guy who was supposed to be fighting the destruction of the environment by chain sawing down billboards at night, among other pranks.
Post by: Tim Finley on July 27, 2020, 10:43:10 AM
Post by: blacktailbob on July 27, 2020, 01:34:39 PM
But you have to make it know there is a need for a change. Enough voices get heard often enough then maybe...
Plus some of these Jeepers are anti-hunters. Calling us murderers on their ( OrlandoJeepRides.com ) ) forum page. Depending on what they are doing in the woods could put them in violation of anti-harassment laws.
So far FWC has not responded to my email, so I will be calling them shortly for clarification on the harassment laws .
Post by: GCook on July 27, 2020, 01:45:19 PM
This is what I initially typed Terry then thought about it and changed what I posted.Citrus WMA? The 50,000 acres that is is open to hiking, hunting, bird watching and yes FWD trails? That area? It’s legal Bob, you gotta deal with it.
Maybe...but he can still say it sucks... :campfire:
But it's how I feel as well. There are plenty of us who don't like the public land being used (read abused) that way.
Post by: gnome on July 27, 2020, 02:11:50 PM
...a very libertarian outlook... :thumbsup:Citrus WMA? The 50,000 acres that is is open to hiking, hunting, bird watching and yes FWD trails? That area? It’s legal Bob, you gotta deal with it.
Maybe...but he can still say it sucks... :campfire:
Post by: Etter on July 27, 2020, 03:34:48 PM
Post by: Pine on July 27, 2020, 04:30:43 PM
It was amazing to see deer coming and then a bike or hikers come along talking and not being at all quiet.
The deer would just freeze in place until the people would be out if site and casually go back to what they would be doing.
I have also watched the same thing with the quads on state land. The deer get used to it.
The trick is to setup off from the main trails. And another neat thing, you don't get busted with sent in those areas because they smell stinky humans all the time.
When life gives you lemons, ………. :saywhat:
Post by: achigan on July 27, 2020, 05:17:09 PM
Post by: Sam McMichael on July 27, 2020, 05:27:38 PM
Post by: Terry Green on July 27, 2020, 05:41:22 PM
Guys...luv ya...but make sure this stays relevant to TB.
Post by: Terry Green on July 27, 2020, 06:12:22 PM
This is what I initially typed Terry then thought about it and changed what I posted.Citrus WMA? The 50,000 acres that is is open to hiking, hunting, bird watching and yes FWD trails? That area? It’s legal Bob, you gotta deal with it.
Maybe...but he can still say it sucks... :campfire:
But it's how I feel as well. There are plenty of us who don't like the public land being used (read abused) that way.
I hear ya....but they have rights like we do as the law says. Not meaning to be a smart asset.... don't like it change the law. ...however grip about it all you want...our right also.
.
There are roads in Cohutta an Blue Ridge that I can't access to hunt unless I take this... ..
.
Post by: Terry Green on July 27, 2020, 06:13:45 PM
Post by: blacktailbob on July 27, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Sadly after two TKRs I can't hump as far back in the woods as I used to. And I certainly don't like seeing ten/twenty times more Jeeps than deer when the road is in sight.
FWC did call me back. There is a regulation concerning larger user groups ( six or more ) that are supposed to acquire permits. I'm hoping covid 19 will tighten up enforcing that rule. BUT and this a BIG BUT, people have call in and report violators. Even if you're not sure call it in anyway.
Post by: Captain*Kirk on July 28, 2020, 11:13:34 AM
Post by: blacktailbob on July 28, 2020, 01:05:14 PM
OPENING DAY is when the jeeps overran the place.
Regular archery season here is Sept. and Oct. and still in the high 80s and 90s. Deet and Therma Cell weather.
Post by: blacktailbob on July 28, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
Post by: YosemiteSam on July 28, 2020, 02:07:36 PM
Sorry boys, but they are a bane on the landscape, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. I was a young lad stationed at Nellis AFB in 1974. I went with two other guys hunting mule deer up in the Shell Creek Range of east central NV. We camped in a deep narrow valley, and the next day I hiked for 4 hours to get up a steep ridge.
When I topped out and had this beautiful desert vista to my west there on the ground was a big oil stain, a used oil filter, and six empty oil cans, accompanied by 4 wheeler tracks everywhere. I remember how it bummed me out for the whole hunt. What idiots we often have to share the world with. :banghead:
Things have changed a lot since those days. I would guess 1974 would have been about the time people started becoming more aware of the impact of trash, etc., on the environment. When I was raised in Las Vegas during the ‘50’s, if you had a load of trash, you drove out into the desert until you found a convenient arroyo and dumped it. Not sneaking around; just normal. When Edward Abbey, sort of a cult hero to the counterculture naturalists of those days, published The Monkey Wrench Gang in 1975, he had his protagonist driving around the desert in his Jeep throwing his empty beer cans out the window as he finished drinking them, which nobody thought of as littering in those days, if the term even existed. This was the same guy who was supposed to be fighting the destruction of the environment by chain sawing down billboards at night, among other pranks.
Abbey was a little before my time. But in FOOL'S PROGRESS, the main character did the same kind of thing. But he knew he was littering. It was his little way of saying "f-you" to development in wild spaces -- litter them up as a way of showing how they trash the wild lands. Abbey's characters are known for being hypocritical SOBs and that's part of the humor.
Personally, I'm a fan of BHA's old bumper sticker: USE THE QUADS GOD GAVE YOU. They have recently started engaging the issue of electronic-assisted bikes to make sure that they stay classified as motor bikes instead of pedal bikes. Mountain bikers can tear stuff up as well and make a hell of a lot of noise. But nothing quite like a motor-driven machine.
East of here, we have 2 wilderness areas with a narrow strip of non-wilderness land between them that runs for miles -- the Dusy-Ershim jeep trail. Yes, those jeeps can have all the wilderness access they want on either side of the road. All of the wilderness, none of the work. I've hiked jeep trails in/out of that area and they are not pleasant -- exhaust, noise, dust, trash... No thanks. On the upside, an off-roading club maintains the trails, several campsites and some vault toilets as well. I just wish there were alternate paths to hike on to get in there. As of now, the jeeps have it all to themselves.
Meanwhile, jeeps are about the most common method of hunting out here. They cover a lot of ground. I'd like to think that they aren't that successful with our <5% harvest rate. But by sheer volume of hunters, it's probably the most common method among those who actually get a deer. It's just not my thing at all.
Post by: JAH518 on July 28, 2020, 05:33:44 PM
I would be aggravated if they came by me as well. But if it’s legal there’s nothing you can do about it except go deeper.
Can you get farther away from the trails? 50,000 acres is a lot!
This is the same WMA I hunt every year and have for the past 35 years unfortunately you can't get away from them. The place is cut up in 1 mile squares so no matter where you go you always hear or see them. Over the past 7 years it has gotten really bad. We're even starting to see UTV and ATV running the roads and they are prohibited. It's a Wildlife Management area not a State Forest, State Forest allow registered UTV/ATV operation not WMA's. I have a really good friend who is a game warden for that area and he says they just don't have the man power to patrol and enforce the area. This is why it also has a really bad problem with poachers. I've caught several poachers on trail cameras and turned the pictures and videos in. It really sucks because this is a really nice piece of woods that has great whitetail gens.
Post by: PASQUINELL on July 28, 2020, 08:33:02 PM
I had my first real up close look at some "trails" thru the paper company forest here in Wisconsin about two years ago. I don't begrudge the use (kinda sorta) because it surely has helped me when dragging... but those trails get roughed up and areas become wallows of rock and water from constant vehicle usage. Some think its fun to blast thru the water etc. but other go around them.
Going around them widens the trail and it too becomes a roughed up area so it get wider. You get the picture. To each its own and if legal so be it. Just need to hunt deeper in! Good hunting guys
Post by: YosemiteSam on July 29, 2020, 11:59:24 PM
I was at a Wisconsin Traditional Banquet and Dave Petersen was guest speaker. I had the privilege of sitting at a restaurant table with him one on one discussing Elk and Trad hunting after the banquet. The topic of off road vehicles came up. Wow... he despises the use and felt it altered Elk travel amongst other things. That guy is an Elk person and very interesting to talk to.
I had my first real up close look at some "trails" thru the paper company forest here in Wisconsin about two years ago. I don't begrudge the use (kinda sorta) because it surely has helped me when dragging... but those trails get roughed up and areas become wallows of rock and water from constant vehicle usage. Some think its fun to blast thru the water etc. but other go around them.
Going around them widens the trail and it too becomes a roughed up area so it get wider. You get the picture. To each its own and if legal so be it. Just need to hunt deeper in! Good hunting guys
Definitely my favorite hunting author. Seems like he'd be a great guy to chat with, though it's always a gamble if a good writer is also good conversation face-to-face.
Post by: BAK on July 30, 2020, 08:09:23 AM
Post by: Dave Lay on July 30, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
The popularity of “ overlanding” and just trail riding in general has gone through the roof . Then the explosion of the side by side market has taken that by 10 fold. In Ar. We have a couple million acres of National Forest and it has become a giant playground for these folks. We get people from all over the nation flooding into the state to run in our national forests, I’ve had to abandon more than one hunting place due to this . The game may be ok with it, but I’m not. Hearing all the vehicles from stand and having to pick up their trash is really getting old. As In some other states, they have huge organized overland events here With as many as 1500 attendees that offer trail rides like the OP mentioned , our back roads are getting beat out , what used to be remote quiet camps are now beat out, trashed up popular camps . It seems to be the thing to do now to video the run and camp including the locations of them and put it on YouTube , only increasing the problem. I understand the USFS has to deal with the multi use function, meaning hunters, off roaders, horseback, etc. and they have attempted to keep vehicles on certain trails by creating a motor vehicle useage map, but lack of enforcement has led to a free for all, and we as bowhunters are very much in the minority. Our only saving grace is we do have some roadless wilderness areas and our game and fish do not allow ATV,s on thier management areas. I talked to a forest service employee a while back and he said the ATV issue is their 3 rd biggest problem nationwide .
Post by: Orion on July 30, 2020, 11:17:29 AM
Post by: Huntschool on July 30, 2020, 12:11:47 PM
Now, at 73 yo with a bad heart (3 bypasses, stent, Defib/pacemaker implant) and COPD, I purchased a SxS to get around my properties, shoot sporting clays and hopefully traverse some 3D courses. I am not a speed demon and view this machine as my legs since I just cant walk much. (I have a permit from the Illinois DNR which allows me to use the machine as a "standing blind" with motor off as well as one of those Blue "Handicapped" driving/parking tags.) I really dont plan on using it that way but rather as a means of getting me closer to my desired hunt area. There are ADA rules regarding the use of said vehicles.
This is a situation which I am not proud of but I am not going to give up hunting and shooting. I have no intentions of spoiling anyone's hunt.
Just some comments here.... Dont shoot the messenger. Thanks
Post by: katman on July 31, 2020, 07:15:01 AM
An example of poor management of the WMA.
Post by: Jon Stewart on July 31, 2020, 07:31:17 AM
Post by: pdk25 on August 02, 2020, 02:41:53 PM