Trad Gang

Hi all,

So you want to go elk hunting, eh? Is your mind filled with questions on who, what, when, where, and why?

I've heard it said, "What you can teach yourself in ten years, can be learned in a day." I fully agree with this statement. All of the advice in the following is based on a Do-it-yourself  (DIY) public land hunt.

I do not claim to be a good elk, muledeer, white-tail, (etc.) hunter. Good Lord above knows I've blown more chances at 'good' critters then any one person deserves. I have however been around the block a time or two when it comes to Western hunting, and I decided to put time into this thread in hopes of making your hunt easier.

I will have several parts to this thread I would like to cover.

Part ONE, "Budget, and Preparation"

Quote by John Abraham of Madubula Safari's in South Africa. "Remember the 'Pee's" (note: in order to maintain tactfulness in this thread, I'm going to substitute a * for an 'I' and # for an 'S'. Please note I'm not trying to offend anybody, but this following quote is what you need to live by when hunting out west.)

Quote: "P*## Poor Planning Promotes P*## Poor Performance."

A). The first question that usually pops into mind when planning a hunt is "How much is this going to cost?"

I'm not going to beat around the bush. It's going to be fairly expensive, and there are a lot of variables that are going to influence this number.

First off, decide what your goals are. Do you want a bull? Are you happy with a cow or a spike? I've found that when most people think of the word elk, "Colorado" is the next word that pops into said persons mind. I'm here to tell you, there is far better places to hunt elk then in Colorado.

Colorado is a wonderful elk hunting destination. Yes it is true that the elk numbers are generous, the forest and wilderness are abundant, the scenery is beyond beautiful and so on. But with it comes extreamly hard hunting terrain, a high amount of un-marked private property, not very good access, and the list could go on. Not to mention 90% of the lower 48 that had the same "elk" thought as you. But if you want a chance at a branch antlered bull, it's a great option. I strongly suggest research in Units, 22, 70, 71, 21, 30,. I haven't hunted much of the rest of the state, but there are quite a few other options as well. The price of a Non-Resident elk tag for open units is a hair over $500. However, a cow tag can be had for quite a bit cheaper.

Utah. Utah is very underated as far as a first time elk hunting destination. 75% of the state is limited entry for elk. It is tuff to get a branch antlered bull tag in Utah. But,..... In most of those limited entry units, there is unlimited either sex archery tags. Here's the kicker. The bull can only be a spike. With these limited entry units comes vast elk numbers, not very many hunters, and most of Utah national forests' have very good access. Meaning,.. Yes you can get a pull-behind camper to a lot of really good hunting. Do some research, but the Boulder mountains are an excelent starting point. Just look up all of the "spike only" units and go from there. A big difference between Utah and Colorado is in Colorado, It's the hunters responsablility to know where the private land is. In Utah, it's the land owners responsablity to post his boundry if he doesn't want hunters. The exception to the rule is "a cultivated property" meaning if the land is cultivated in any way, it's automatically posted. Everywere I've been in Utah, the land is marked really well. One last thing, your chance of getting a shot at a cow or a spike in Utah is 100 fold better then getting a shot at an elk in Colorado. A non-resident archery licence for Utah is $388.

Search Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Oregon. All of these areas hold elk numbers too, but I haven't hunted either one of these states enough to tell you anything about them. I do know, I don't here of very many non-residents tagging out in these states on a DYI public land hunt.

In most cases, you can get other optional tags. Just do proper research by searching the desired states DOW web site.

Next is Gas. I don't recommend flying for this type of hunting. Always plan on success. If you fly, the cost of getting your meat home can far outweigh the price of gas. Say you live 2000 miles away from Utah. Based on 15 miles per gallon at $3.50 a gallon the fuel bill is going to be $940 for a round point A to point B trip. Plan on another $300 for fuel just for hunting purposes. The fuel bill is going to be about $1500. Take a buddy or two and split the fuel bill. Offer to take your truck and only buy gas once for every two times your buddy does for wear and tear. Plus taking a buddy can be really beneficial when you have a dead elk to contend with.

I'm a fat boy, and when I travel, I can manage to keep the food bill to $20 dollars a day per pearson for food. And that's if you are eating well. So for a  7 day hunt, plan on $150 per person.

Also budget a two night stay in a motel when traveling. Or find somewhere to pitch a tent along your travels. At $40 to $60 a night, I personally like to budget $150 for motel rooms.  

Gear. Don't go crazy thinking you need a lot of gear. You don't. I use the same gear hog hunting in East Texas as I do elk hunting. However, footwear is vital. The biggest thing is a good quality mixed blend or wool sock. Cotton socks in the mountains are only going to lead to blisters. I have used $29.99 wall-mart special hiking boots with good success as long as I've had good fitting wool-like socks. However I do recommend the Danner Pronghorn 400 gram thinsulate boots. Very comfortable with great support. One thing I do suggest is a pack frame. Be it an internal frame backpack or a simple back frame although people every year throw a quarter over their sholders and go

Once again, Don't go crazy with buying 'stuff' you think you might need. I have killed elk with my bow in Blue jeans. You don't need the top-of-the line camo, raingear ect. I would invest in upper body camo for just a little more room for error with movement, In other words, use what you have if that's all you can afford. People just like you are succeassfull in harvesting elk every year on a very low budget. Movement and how you hunt is the key, but we'll get into that later.

Try to have at least $300 'oops' money. This is used for cooler hanging fee's, flat tires, dry ice to put in your coolers, an extra night in a motel room, and so on.

So, based on two guy's traveling 2000 miles to go elk hunting we have

Tag-$500
Fuel-$750
Food- $150
Motel-$150
'oops'-$300

$1850 for two guys to make that dream come true. Keep in mind, this can be done for cheaper, and you'll notice the more trips you make, the better you learn the ropes of 'elk hunting budget.'

Like I said, you are on your own as far as gear is concerned, but you don't need to spend a load of money on gear. Once again, if a $20 dollar pair of binoculars is all you can afford, don't let that stop you from thinking that you can't hunt elk because you only have a cheap pair of bino's.

Packing list.

Cloths.
   3 pairs of pants
   3 short sleeved shirts-prferably camo with your hunting cloths
   3 long sleeved shirts
   10 pairs of broke in underwear
   10 pairs of broke in good wool or blend socks. Leave the cotton sock at home.
   2 pairs of travel clothing.
   Boots (if you can afford a spare set, you'll want them)
   1 jacket
   1 coat
   1 long john bottoms just incase it snows. Don't worry about a top, layer your shirts jacket and coat for upperbody.
   Cotton gloves.
   Rain gear. I still don't have expensive rain gear. I use a $2 plastic poncho
Hunting pack.
   Flashlight and battaries
   Small first aid kit

   5 cheeze cloth game bags
   2 knives and sharpener
   Water, water, water,
   Flagging tape for marking blood trails.
   Topo map and/or Gps and compass (I don't need to say it but I'm going to. You need intimate knowledge of that topo map as well)
   Toilet paper
   Camera (you better share how your hunt went with us Tradgang personel)
   Matches/firestarter
   Water, water, water (I can't stress proper hydration enough)
   Pain killer of some sort (Tylonol, Asprin)
   Leatherman type handy tool.
   Small but strong cord or rope.
   1 $2 rain poncho
   1 cow elk call (I'm going to elaborate on this a lot more, but leave the bugle at home, preferably in your trash can.)

Gear,
   Binos
   Bow
   Arrows
   Optics
   Hunting pack

Camping
   A dry shelter. I use a cheap tent then put cheap tarps over the cheap tent to insure water proofing.
   Some form or method of cooking
   Lantern   
   0 degree rated sleeping bag
   Camp chairs
   Hatchet, ax, or machetty
   Trash bags
   Food
   Matches or lighter
   Rope for use with Bear proofing your camp
   2 large coolers. (store your food in them and if you get a animal empty food and place in meat)

Other

Call the division of wildlife and ask to speak with the game biologist for the area you want to hunt. He or they will point you in the direction of animals.

Naturally the better your gear, the more time you have, and so on will make thinks 'better' per say. But you don't have to have 'better' to have a wonderfull hunt.

Here's the starter. Lot's more to come. This is just "part one."

Feel free to add, but keep in mind to try and keep it simple.

Part Two shortly....

Todd

this is neat............keep it coming

That is one of the best "Elk Primers" I've seen - great job!  Your budget is very generous, and many guys could cut that down significantly because they don't live 2000 miles away.  I'm in the midwest, and it is more like 1,200 to lots of elk hunting.  

I would also point out (just to make the idea more saleable to the wife  ;)  ) that food is an expense you would have even if you stayed home.

I can see this is going to be a great thread.  For you guys who haven't done it before but have always dreamed about it, PAY ATTENTION!   :readit:   Do whatever you can to make your dreams happen now - don't wait until you're too old and then wonder where the years went.

I have friends in Idaho abutting lots of public land so... You got my undivided attention!

Great post...thanks...Randy

I hunt Idaho on a DIY every year.  Will be back this year.  Fuel cost is gettin' to be the biggest factor. I hunt for the full Month, camp in a nice tent and enjoy being in the Mountains away from people. Physical condition dosen't seem to be a big factor, the country I hunt is steep!! Some folks say you have to train the whole summer, run 20 miles a day...if your in good shape, your be OK. Just don't try climbin' 10,000 foot peaks with 40 pounds on your back! Regurdless of physical condition, ( if you live at 1200) and at 8,000+ it takes a WEEK to get used the thin air. I will never pay an Outfitter $5000 for 7 day hunt, when I can hunt 30 days for 1500!!! And have as good a hunt!!

You've got it covered...Since I now own all of the gear I need for both base and bivy hunts my expenses are under $1000 for fuel (split 3 ways, a tag, and travel money).

I buy MREs from this place:  http://www.readymeal.com/  and field strip them. I can carry 3 days worth of food, my water bladder, a water purifier, a sleeping pad,my solo tent, bag, and hunting stuff keeping it under 45 pounds. I am usually between 2 and 4 miles off the road to put some distance between me and the other guys who might not be as driven as me. When I run out of food I'm back to the base camp to replentish my supplies. I break out the topo and decide where to next. My base camp is a roomy dome tent that has a cot and a solar shower near it. I sometimes have a little real food in a cooler to break up the MREs.

Keep the thread coming. I love to see how everyone else does it to!

Good stuff, good stuff, good stuff.  Everyone has something they think is #1.... fitness, boots, this piece of gear or that.  It is all important and at the same time, none of it is because you are out hunting ELK!  
Here's my tip.  Lightweight is good, durability trumps lightness however, and dual roll gear beats that.  Leatherman type tools cover several pieces of gear for example.
Good luck.
Mike

I appreciate the info.  Have always wanted to try elk hunting.  Got a heavier set of limbs for my Black Widow with elk in mind!!!

I appreciate the info.  I'm going on my first elk hunt this year in Idaho.  I'm flying out though because I have a good friend that lives up there.  He's doing the scouting and has access to private land as well.  One tip would recommend for anyone in my shoes is to ship your gear to a buddy ahead of time.  This way there is zero chance of the airline loosing your luggage and ruining or delaying your trip.

Thanks for doing this. I will be watching closely.

Bill

Cool!

Very nice indeed, I am doing my first hunt this year.  Although it will be a guided hunt with T. Mike Murphy of TBARM Outfitters, this information is invaluable.

Appreciate you taking the time and thoughtfulness to do so!

Great thread,I have done all my elk hunts DIY.It's always enjoyable if you go with the right people.Always pick hunting partners that never get down,as those with anything but can cause a miserable trip. Thanks,  Ben

All wonderful comments. Thanks for your kind interest.

Here's part TWO,

Todd


-----------------------------------


Part TWO "Physical and Mental Preparation."

So,... Here it is.....The first of June...... You just got online and made the commitment by buying a tag. Congratulations,... You are going elk hunting.

This is the stage where you'll want to get on Tradgang and ask if your equipment is sufficient, or what kind of broad heads, or is 50 pounds enough, yada.... Yada.... Yada...

With these questions, you usually get 20 answers, and 19 of them are different. I killed my first Trad elk with a PSE Impala, 54# @ my 30" draw, a 31" 2117 with a 125 grain Magnus two blade. Total Arrow weight was around 550 grains. Although I didn't get a pass through, I did get full chest cavity penetration.

I'm going to keep this simple. USE WHAT YOU HAVE. Limit yourself to 10 yards if you have to, just use what you have.

My recommendations are,.......#1 priority with your set up needs to be perfect arrow flight. PERIOD. #2 Should be broad head sharpness. I don't want to get into a debate whether your head needs to be able to shave your face or 'file' sharp. Just get the darned thing sharp. That's pretty much my set-up advice. However, I am going to say that Dr. Ashby has me convinced about FOC and such. I'm not going to sit here and tell you you need his recommendations to kill an elk. You don't. I would recommend that if you are shooting  around 50# and below to use a two blade head,  I'll get into this more later, but don't worry about blood trails when elk hunting. Chances are you won't get much of one anyhow. If you do, great, but don't count on it.

Some more Pre-(non-resident) season advice....

Physical conditioning.

Again, I'm not going to blow smoke. The better shape you are in, the more you are going to enjoy the 'slow' times of the hunt. It's easy to get discouraged when you have covered many a mile and haven't had much luck. It's been my experience the better shape I am in, the less likely I will give up when things are slow. That being said, you don't need to be physically fit to have a great hunt.

My father has ridden several too many Broncs back in his day, and his knees are horrible. He is over weight and has asthma. Somehow, he manages to be successful on probably 70% of his bow hunts. He might spend 8 hours covering 1 mile of terrain, but he does harvest elk. Pace yourself. Take two steps if you have to and sit down for a while. Keep it real quite and slow.

It's been said above, but don't let being out of shape stop you from living your dream. You can do this.

I would recommend you spend the several months prior to your hunt getting in the best shape you can get into.

Some exercise tips are.... When shooting, take one arrow. Shoot that arrow, walk down to the target and retrieve. Repeat this process for 30 to 40 minutes. By the end of that time, I'm willing to bet you have walked close to a mile. If you can't make 30 minutes, start off with 15. At the end of that fifteen, you will have walked ½ of a mile.

Even if you are a flatlander, walking helps. If you are in a little better physical condition, you bet running and jogging helps. Biking is wonderful. Swimming. So on and so forth.

I will say you don't need to hit the weights to enjoy your hunt. Concentrate on cardio as that is were you will be tested the most.

I have guided folks who have had to take a nitro pill before pulling a 100 yard hill, and we had to sit at the top of that hill for an hour while he caught his breath. He had determination and that's all you really need. Get your mental game in check, and you will be more physically fit, I guarantee it. (For the record, I strongly advised that gentleman not go with me to retrieve his animal. His reply was "If I die walking up to an animal I just harvested....Well......I can't think of a better way to go." I couldn't talk him out of it after a lot of pleading.

Let's move on to shooting.

I will stress that you put as many hours behind that flippin' stick as you can muster. You don't need to be able to Robin-hood an arrow once a day. If you can great, but what you do need to be able to do is hit a paper plate with your first arrow every time while you're shooting muscles are stone cold.

Meaning. If you just strung your bow, knocked an arrow and shot at that paper plate at 20 yards and missed, your effective range is not yet 20 yards. That first arrow of the day is the only one that matters when your elk hunting. I'm not going to preach my ethics to you, but I personally limit myself to 35 yards for elk.

I feel I should elaborate on 'mental' conditioning a little further. It's important when being in elk country that you never loose your ability to think. I have lost it before. I'll give you an example of my 2006 elk hunt.

I was hunting this area in Western Colorado that I was always seeing a load of elk in. The elk were about a mile or a mile and a half, up a pretty steep bench. I was chasing a really (I dare say big) nice bull and was playing cat and mouse with him for several days. I came close a few times, just couldn't ever make that "it's golden" light go off in my head. Anyhow.....In order to get to where the elk were, I had to cross a pretty good sage-brush flat before I reached the bottom of a bench. On the last day I had to hunt I was walking through this sage-brush flat, (not 300 yards from the truck) and off to my right I spot a nice 6 point shed standing up against some tall sage. I thought "Cool! Don't know how I missed that." So I just go walking over to this shed. I got about 20 yards away and I was just beginning to tell myself "That shed is awful brown for this time of year." when that 'shed' snapped to attention. And I'll be darned if it didn't have an identical twin. Furthermore....I was flabbergasted to say the least, that those two shed antlers were firmly attached to a living breathing bull.

Immediate, instant BULL FEVER struck with the fury of an angry lightning bolt. This was crunch time.

I dropped to my knees. I had the shakes so bad it was difficult to grab an arrow out of my side mount quiver. I fumbled around, finally got an arrow knocked, poked an eye ball above the sage to confirm the bull was still there, fumbled in my pocket, got my diaphragm in my mouth finally, told my self "Todd.....This is it." Looked at the bull, gave a smooth chirp, and as the bull stood so did I coming to full draw......

The arrow sailed harmlessly 6 inches above the bulls back.

Moral of the story.......first, you can never figure elk. This was the same bull I had been playing games with. I don't know why he decided that sagebrush flat was a good place to go take a nap in, but he did. I like to think he got sick of 20 or so nagging women and just wanted some solitude, or perhaps another bull whipped him and he need to go lick his wounds. I don't know. What I do know is I was totally unprepared mentally for the events that unfolded.

Second.....When I had that little talk with myself it needed to sound something like this.... "Todd......This is it....Make sure and pick a spot and follow through with your shot." Oh well. It might be just me, but if I ever stop getting that BULL FEVER, I'm going to quit hunting. Lesson learned though.

There are a lot of things you need to discuss with yourself pre-season. Have these talks with yourself and play out scenarios so you will be better prepared.

"What if a bear attacks?" "What if I get lost?" Run the "What if's through your mind."

Just one more mental discussion, Elk are huge and can be very deceiving as far as how far away they are. An elk that is 40 yards away may look like he's in your lap. Be prepared for that.

The last thing for part two is,.......

Fear. You will experience fear at some point during your hunt. Bigfoot might be out there, and if he attacks you, you will be the first person in the history of man kind. Bears can get 'cheeky', just remember 99.95% of the time they won't. (I do suggest you pack a little can of bear spray.) Also, fear of getting lost, etc. What ever your fear is, DON'T LOOSE YOUR ABILITY TO THINK. I use my fear to drive me. Once again ask yourself the "What ifs" and go from there. Make sure you aren't the only people who know where you are going. Make sure somebody that will miss you also knows. Don't be afraid to call the local Sherriff's dispatch and say "My name is so and so, I will be hunting in the area of so and so, if my wife reports me missing, look for me here.

Once again, feel free to add, just keep it simple.

Thanks,

Part THREE soon,

Todd

TODD
I'M GOING ON MY FIRST ELK HUNT WITH A BOW IN SEPTEMBER.I'M LEARNING ALOT HERE.THANKS ALOT.JAMES

I'm sure hope I can help.

Here's the first section of part Three.

This is going to be a long one.

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Part THREE "Tactics"

You've made the 2000 mile drive, pitched camp, and woke up to a beautiful opening morning. Make sure and pinch yourself. At this point, you are living your dream.

Where to start............

Well, last July while studying your Topo map, you noticed a good looking draw that has a creek named 'Beaver creek' running from north to south. You wonder about the area, and since you have researched elk enough to know that they need to drink twice a day, you call the game biologist for the area and ask him about the 'Beaver creek' area.

He tells you, "Heck yes. I know there are some elk in 'Beaver Creek.' That would be an excellent place to start." So,...you scout out the county road or trail close by and top a high point in the road and immediately your breath is taken away by what you see.

The next question is "How do I go about hunting it?" The first thing you need to notice is which way the wind is blowing. It's been said, "you can fool their eyes and you can fool their ears but you won't fool their nose." Oh how true.

The wind thermals will switch from mornings and evenings. I've noticed about (depending on how hot it is) 10:00 am the wind will switch from blowing down hill to blowing up hill due to the thermals getting warm, and as soon as the thermals start to cool again (late afternoon) they will switch again and blow down hill. There are a lot of exceptions to this rule, but as a general "rule of thumb" it's a good starting point.

It's first light and the wind is blowing in your face. "How do I hunt it?" is once again the question in mind.

My favorite form of elk hunting is still hunting. Find an area that looks good, has a water source close by, and has elk country written all over it. When still hunting, you don't know if animals are in the area for sure. You haven't seen any yet, but does that mean they aren't there?" My favorite style of still hunting is slowly working the country I think elk might be in. I will walk 10 yards and stop and glass the brush/trees/vegetation in front of me. I have done this routine many times with great success. Slowly walk 10 more yards, stop and glass. You will be surprised at how close you can slip to a heard of elk provided the wind is in your face and you have been careful not to make any human noise (Zippers, loud fabric brushing against a twig, etc.) One of those times you stop to glass, your optics will be filled with the unmistakable color of "Elk."  Elk by nature are extremely noisy. Breaking sticks and such are 'natural sounds' to them. Like I said before, try your hardest to remove the human sounds.

"How do I know where the elk are going to be?" The short answer is, you won't. That's why the 10 yards, glass, 10 yards, glass method. Anywhere there is a tree, there might be an elk. You can't figure them at all.

But throughout the years, I've noticed they have habits that are pretty much one in the same. Look for taller stands of shady trees where they might go to bed. I've also noticed they really like a 'mixture' if you will of pines, aspen, and oak brush.

So let's pretend this picture is "Beaver creek". Note: I borrowed these pictures from the internet. Pretend the draw off to the left of the picture is where the actual creek is. If I was to hunt this area, and had the wind in my face, the yellow is the path I would set. Remember that later in the day the wind will shift so I like to hunt in big circles. I will walk until the wind shifts then circle around and walk back to the truck with the wind in my face most of the time. The pink areas are where I would personally check for them bedding. If they are up moving around, you never know where you will run into them.

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/co2.jpg)


Another form of hunting I really like, is sitting on a "wallow" during the hottest part of the day. Finding these take work. Often time they are no more then a mountain spring the elk will dig out. Keep in mind that cows use the wallow just as much as bulls do. It's been my observation that I have personally found more wallows in the pines/dark timber. There is absolutely no science to back this up, but it's were I look the hardest for them.

Afternoon hunts are usually spot and stalk for me. I will find another area with excellent feed clearings and try to find them moving from bedding areas to feeding areas.

This next pic is prime late afternoon feeding area. I will spot elk and try to slip in the red zone. Once again, keep the wind in your favor. You can get aggressive wile stalking elk. Don't be afraid to make a little noise. If you act like a predator (sneaky), you'll get their attention quick. If you act like a moo cow (noisy) on the move, they won't hardly look up. Just stay in the cover. Be careful not to make much human noise once again, and even though you are being aggressive, don't get in a hurry.

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/co1.jpg)

So my general elk hunting day consist of,

Morning-still hunting
Day-sitting wallows or more still hunting
Evening-spot and stalk.

If I spot elk in the morning, I'll put them to bed before I try to stalk.

A herd of elk will most of the time post guards. They will take turns. I've noticed there is usually one guard for every 7 or so elk bedded. Say you have a herd of 20 elk, there is probably going to be 2 or 3 guard elk up and about. I have seen herds of 2 or 3 that all bed down. These guard elk are the ones I'm looking for when still hunting or spotting and stalking.

Once you get within 75-50 yards of the herd, slow down. I'm talking, it should take you almost an hour to close that last 30 yards. Stay low. Hands and knees or belly crawl. Keep movement so slow you wonder if you are actually moving or not. Lie on your belly and literally inch your way closer. One inch at a time. Don't ever think you have to hurry. Sure if you don't, you might blow the stalk. But if you do, I guarantee you WILL blow the stalk.

Often times I'll wait the herd out and wait for them to start feeding out of there bedding area if I don't think I can get close. Elk hunting is definitely a game of chess. Don't ever play checkers.

This is only the first part of many tactics. This is going to be a long section. I'm going to say again that none of the above is fool proof. If somebody tells me they have "figured out elk", I will stand flat footed and call them a "bald faced liar." Please keep that in mind.

Once again, none of this is scientifically proven to work. This is just what I do and has seemed to work for me.

Plenty more "tactics" to come.

Todd

Great thread Todd !

I was sittin' in camp one night around the fire and an "old timer" walked in, it was dark and he asked if could enter the camp.. smelled the coffee a mile down the valley, he said..His nex comment was "kill a Elk today?" I had not.. I have passed on more than one, not what I wanted.. he said, son, shoot any (mature) elk you have a shoot at..even if it's a Cow...if you do your be more sucessful than 80% of the people Elk huntin'.  A couple of good things to remember...NEVER EVER WEAR YOUR HUNTIN' CLOTHS INTO (OR GET DRESSED) THE CAMP AREA.  NEXT, (good boots, Danners, ect) BOOTS THAT FIT AND ARE WELL BROKEN IN. WOOL SOCKS WITH LINER SOCKS.. THE VERY BEST PAIR OF BINOCULARS YOU CAN AFFORD. You can get by with a good spottin' scope, but now with a pair of good bino. And most of enjoy your hunt.  When you start feelin' bad, depressed take a break, rest or fish some.

Hey, I almost forgot...if you read only one book it should be  "ELK HUNTING SECERTS" from RMEF..small paper back with about 300 tips.

Todd,
Excellent advice, keep it coming.

I decided that calling needs a section of it's own.

Still more to come, and thanks for reading.

Feel free to post questions you might have if anything I type confuses you.

Take care,

Todd

==============================
Section 4 "More Tactics"

Calling

This can be a touchy subject. Even though it's long, I'm not going to get into this as much as I first wanted, but I will cover what works for me.

First off.....Keep in mind that even though every show you have ever seen where people were 'bugling' elk in, it's not the best calling practice for a beginner or expert for that matter.

Let's say you've watched all the tapes, listened to all the instruction, practiced enough to sound like a world class caller, it's not going to do you any good unless you know how to apply that sound in the woods.

Look at it this way. When you bugle, what you are pretty much screaming at the top of your lungs to every other elk in the area is "WHO WANT'S TO FIGHT ME!!!!!" This can be a good locator, but a lot of elk are just like humans. A lot 'talk the talk', but not very many 'walk the walk.' (Note: Keep in mind that that bugle has to be perfect for you to get an answer.)

If you do get an answer, you are getting one of two responses. The first will be a young bull full of vinegar that is screaming back, "I WAS HERE FIRST!!! GO AWAY!!!" The second will be, (I DON'T WANT TO FIGHT YOU, BUT IF YOU TRY TO TAKE MY COWS YOU BETTER BE READY TO 'WALK THE WALK'!!!!!!!" If you bugle, you will have pretty much put every bull in the area on the defense. Does it work? Yes. Once again, if you know how to work a 'defensive' bull. That's something that has to be self taught. I can't tell you how to do that. For what it's worth, I personally try my hardest to not bugle, period.

Here is why........

A well executed cow call will trigger a bugle just as well, but there are some huge differences. When you throw a cow call, what you are pretty much screaming at the top of your lungs to every other elk in the area is, "HEY BOYS,,,....WHO WANT'S TO BREED ME!!!!!" It's possible that every bull in ear shot is going to let you know there answer. A raghorn or spike (satellite bull) might just come running without making a sound. The reason he is coming in silent is because he doesn't want any other bulls in the area to know he's fixin' to get lucky. If you just cow called, hold really still and stay concealed and listen. I repeat, LISTEN. If you just heard a stick/branch break in the bottom of the canyon, you very well might have an elk coming. A herd bull will likely yell (YOU KNOW I DO, BABY!!! COME OVER HERE.) The reason he won't come to you is likely because he has 10 birds in the hand already and doesn't want to let them go to catch one bird in the bush.

The elk you are targeting when you cow call is the next biggest bull out there. This is the one that the herd bull has already whipped. This bull will have 2 or 3 cows he's managed to gather. He will be screaming (I'LL BE THERE IN A MINUTE!!!! ALL YOU OTHER PUNKS BETTER BACK AWAY!!!!) Don't be afraid to chirp back to him, (OK!!!!!I'LL MEET YOU HALFWAY!!!! I'M SO READY TO BE BREAD IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY!!!!!) When you are targeting this bull, be sure to set up where he has to get in close before he circles down wind. He will come in and wonder where you are, but if he can't see you he will try to wind you. If the elk are already down wind from you, back off and hit it again in the morning or that afternoon. Make sure you get upwind of the elk before making a stand.

Think about it. When and if you were/are chasing women, would rather fight a guy for one, or just find a single one with a whole lot less drama. Of course once you find one you darned sure will fight to keep her, correct?

If you want that heard bull, and feel like you must bugle, you have to get close to him. This is the only time I'll bugle. You have to be with in 50 yards of him and his herd. Preferably closer. If you are further then that, he's going to gather his cows and move to the furthest peak above timberline. It's easier to herd his cows and keep them, then fight a bull and have a chance at loosing them. Of course, he'll sure sound pretty as he's going away though. OK,.... Say you are within 45 yards of the bull and his cows. This is where you want to throw that perfectly executed bugle.(You will know in short order if it was perfect or not due to how fast the herd is running away.)  It's going to be more then he can stand and he'll be madder then a one legged man in a butt kickin' contest, and will be on you like a pit-bull on a ham-bone. But if you just cow call, why not walk right in there and shoot him? Use your stalking skills, and keep it mellow and casual.

I feel I need to stress here that you need to use your calls sparingly. Revert back to your women chasing days. If there is a girl that is telling you "Take me oh take me............!!!!!.....Please, please, please,!!!!! I'll be such a good girl.....C'mon...!!!!!! Don't you see!!!!!! I'll love you forever!!!! Oh, Deer oh baby take me!!!!! I need you!!!! I want you!!!!!!.........TAKE ME, FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS!!!!!!TAKE ME!!!!!!"  She's probably going to scare you off, correct? Now if some woman comes up to you and say's "Wanna grab a cup of coffee?" What would your response be?

Now,... I hate to be this way, but I'm going to. If there is one thing you get from this thread, hear this......

If you don't sound perfect with your calling, take all the above advise, crumple it up and throw it away. What you will do is shut down the rut during day light hours. This is the only thing I can guarantee in this thread, and I do 100% guarantee it. You will not only ruin it for you, but for every other hunter in the area that might know exactly how to call but now it's not an option because you didn't know what you were doing.

That being said, there is only one way you are going to learn, and that's by doing it.

If you sound good, but don't quite yet know how to apply those sounds, you might make the elk call shy, but you won't shut the rut down during day light hours at least.

I really like the 'Primos hyper lip single reed cow call' it's an open reed call. The first thing I do to it is rip that ugly black thing off the end of it. To get a cow sound, simply make a fist, place the call in the circle that your pointer finger and your thumb makes, place the call in your mouth. Touch your thumb knuckle to your chin. At this point blow into the call and rotate the call until your pointer finger knuckle touches your nose.

When you start, your upper lip should be at the very edge outside edge of the reed. When you finish, your upper lip should be touching the rubber band about halfway down the reed. The call shouldn't move from your bottom lip. Your bottom lip is just the axis for rotation.

You will get a simple "eeeEEEWWW".

Find a source where you can hear cow talk, and just learn how to imitate them.

If my above advice offends you I'm sorry. If you think I'm wrong, I'm sorry. This is just what I have used personally and have found what works best for me.

Good luck,

More to come yet......

Todd

Good stuff Todd!

I have been an elk hunter for coming up  23 years; and I did not get an elk last year.

There were reasons that had to do with hunting; shooting; etc; but some reasons had nothing to do with hunting; but family issues. That and me doing stupid stuff.

I can add a few things here; one is to repeat the need to have water; and the suggestion of having a water purifier on you when hunting is about the best idea. Force yourself to drink water; because your going to be sweating; and your going to be dehydrating yourself; and that can lead to sore muscles and thick blood; and death and stuff.

I think one thing that people do "wrong" is that they do not 'carpe diem'; they do not seize the moment.

Elk; as stated; can not be totally figured out.
So; one of the best rules to follow is to hunt where there are elk. If your in elk country it might be enough to look back at a great hunt; even though you might not have gotten a shot.
Then again maybe you want to kill an elk...

I see people in their first few days of a hunt pushing themselves; and not ~hunting~ hard; and not paying 100 percent attention; and thus; alerting the elk they came to hunt. Then they spend the rest of the hunt in a futile search for the elk they moved out: the first days of the hunt.

Elk can live in an area for months; and get bumped and run for an hour and live for another month in equally good country. THERE IS LITTLE SENSE IN HUNTING YESTERDAYS ELK.

I took a bow killed elk for a bowhunter once; on my pack animals; his 39th elk with a bow.

His technique was to walk for a half hour; and then sit for 40 minutes. He would read a book. Elk are noisy critters in most cases; and you can hear them mewing and breaking brush when feeding and walking ~often~.

He would keep up his routine all day long; not going back to camp for lunch. He took it with him; and slept if the felt like it.

When he heard elk; and its often not calling; its just a 'snap' of a twig. He would put the book away and start hunting like he was playing chess with his life on the line.

I personally have noticed ( I see elk everyday all winter long- as well as -often- the rest of the year) that elk will move in early light; and usually not bugle past 10 am. If they bugle past ten:( when thermals start making them bed) its either that they are in a bed- and just do it; or they are walking to or from a wallow.

I notice that elk do not lay in one spot all day. They get up at about 2 ( when most hunters are in camp wondering where the elk are) and walk a ways. They may only walk a short ways; to a wallow or water; or even a hundred yards and lay back down; but the '2 oclock' pattern is quite common.

When it comes to calls; there is a common failure among most hunters. It has nothing to do with anything other than courtesy. When they are listening to elk bugle tapes or cds; they keep the volume down. A bugling bull elk will scream so loud it will make your ears flap in the wind if your within shooting distance. They bugle loud; and if you are at the wifes requested practice volume; your going to sound like an elk a mile away; and NOT very likely to anger a bull into answering.

If you want to really tick off a bull; then when he calls; repeat the call exactly back to him. EXACTLY. Note for note. That can be tough; and takes a lot of calling experience; but it is just plain effective.

I have tried a kazillion cow elk calls; and used them when I could see the elk; and the only elk call that I have NEVER seen scare an elk; is the little old grey plastic 'elk inc' call- with two plastic flaps and a rubber band going through it.
Why I don't know. I carry one all the time for cow calling - along with other calls...

What I see in the winter; is that there are herds of elk. There might be 65 in one herd; a hundred in anothers. As I know for a fact cow elk in the wild can- and do- live for 30 years plus; if your looking at a herd of elk; they ALL could be out of one cow. That means they can and they DO recognise the voices of elk they have known for decades.

Now in the fall; when the rut hits; and cows are either with a herd bull; or they are trying to avoid a herd bull ( cow elk are women elk) they will not be so worried about a new voice in the neighborhood. So that is when your cow calling works the best.

Elk are NOT dumb. If you use one cow call and call in spike and the cows; and then stand up and laugh at them; or walk out into the open because there is no monster bull in the group; or if you call in and screw up a calling session for whatever reason --- please don't be shocked if the same elk hear your 'call voice' and consider it a human: from the first mew.
Take more than one call; and be prepared to use both- because NOBODY knows everytime they have screwed it up.

Have a plan. If you and your buddy are going to bugle in an elk; cool. But plan it out; watch some Primos videos and LISTEN TO WILL!! He is saying the caller should be behind the shooter 40 or 50 or even more yards!! If your calling the elk will sneak in to see you - and then you have to figure out a way to draw and shoot with an elk staring at you at ten yards. Frontal shots do not count.

Be sneaky from day ONE. Be HUNTING from day one.

Other than water; and a water purifier - the only things I have not seen that you should take with you each hunt; is a couple of those little folded up space blankets. They can save you in an emergency; you can make a lean/to roof; and use the other to sit or lay on. Making a lean/to requires rope; and that is the other thing I don't see enough of. Parachute cord is perfect.

You will see the wisdom in carrying strong rope; and about 50 feet of it; when you get an elk down. First; you might need to tie the dang elk to a tree to keep it from sliding down 'hecks gulch' while your field dressing it. Then there is the matter of pine needles and dirt on the meat. If you lay one of those blankets down on the ground and lay your boned out meat on it; your meat processor will like it better; and some processors will not accept dirty meat (rocks can ruin a grinder blade for one thing).  

Then when you have the blankets covered with skinned out elk quarters; and go to hang them up ( do hang them up- the higher the better) you will realise that if you have a lot of rope; you will be a lot happier. Its called the rope to happiness factor. H= LR X RLN  ( happiness equals length of rope times rope length needed).     :rolleyes:  

Hunt where the elk are on the day your hunting them. Use your head. Remember elk put their head down to look UNDER brush all the time; so don't attract elk to your feet ( as in white socks or shoes) or movement.

Use your binoculars; they are using theirs.

All that and practice with your knees knocking; and you should do fine   :)  

    and everything Todd said too.....

Thanks Brian! You just added section #5.

Todd

Still..... lots more to come!!!

Todd

What a valuable thread. Thanks guys.
Worthwhile to copy and paste this one into notepad, methinks.

Regards,
 Dave

I am cutting and pasting here guys.  Keep it coming.!!!!

I have hunted elk witha rifle for close to twenty years but only been 4 times.  I am a member of The Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation too. I read lots about elk huntingas well.  I think this is the straightest skinny on elk hunting I have read.  It makes sense and you bet I'm saving it!  Thanks a lot.  I want to go with my bow!!!!!  Bill

Best I've seen ! Thanks guys!!

Todd,
Wow this is great...don't take too long for the next chapter!
Quinn

One thing you need to be prepared for is a quick change in temperatures.
Its not unussual for the temperature here to drop 40 degrees at night; and too; its not abnormal to have 90 degree weather; and then wake up to half a foot of snow the next day.

Be prepared for that possibility.

Things that can help are things like snowproof; which can last all day even in snow: to keep your feet dry. Even if you have "100 percent waterproof" boots; walking in wet snow can result in wet feet and any boot with leather will get wet in wet snow: and your feet can then get cold.

A plastic tarp can keep your tent dry - even with a snow load on it.

Your going to sit down. When you sit down; if your rear end gets wet; it takes the fun out of the day. One way to avoid this is to get some swimming trunks that are made out of waterproof material.
If they have a web net inside them; you can forget underwear; and your legs will not chafe from walking.
And you can sit on wet ground without getting wet.

Here is a little tip :  
 Cut the front of the swimming trunks so that you can urinate easier.

 Paint ball competitors have camo knee pads designed to hit the ground quiet. They can give a little knee support; and protect your knees while you are stalking and have to crawl-or if you fall. They are pretty cheap and unlike construction type knee pads; they are made with a relatively soft rubber on the front; so they are quiet;and have tire tread like impressions for traction. They really are a good addition to your gear in slippery rocky country.

Everybody hunts elk differently, thats for sure. If I might add my style to this thread ?

The very most important thing is conditioning IMO. How physically fit you are will determine the success of your hunt more often than not. Your conditioning affects of course your miles walked per day, and the areas you can get into and out of, but it also affects your mental state.

Do everything you can to be in great shape, I highly reccommend walking with a weighted pack and in your hunting boots - this will condition your feet and shoulders.

Second most important thing is picking the right area to go. You can hunt hard a full week in areas that are low elk density and come home with tag soup. Luckily, elk is at or near all time highs in population (modern hunting era anyway). Still, you need to pick the right areas. I can safely tell you that the farther away from people you go, the greater the chance you'll get into elk. You find a bull on Sept 22nd thats not been called to much and he's frustrated and cowless, he's been whipped, his cows taken from him ... thats a bull that will answer and come to you.

I don't take a GPS. I don't take binoculars. I sleep in my hunting clothes and I don't take any scent care to ammount to anything. I hunt as light as I can go, I take a water bottle with a filter in it, I use a box knife type knife to clean elk, I use cord instead of rope - I leave all the weight I can behind. Why ? Because that 5 or 7 pounds will tire me, and it will keep me from going into that next basin, and that next basin might be where that bull that will come to my call will be !

Hunt all day. Hunt in the rain. Hunt when its HOT and hunt straight up noon. Do not give up. You're spending money and vacation time here - time and money from your family, sqeeze every drop of the experience out of it by going 100% and not leaving anything behind.

I've called bulls in at noon. Silent bulls, bugling bulls. I've sat at water holes and ambushed them. I've spot and stalked them in snow slides. I've had them RUN in on calls, and I've had them hold up at 50 yards and not come any closer. I killed one bulls at 12 yards after he rubbed a tree for 2-3 minutes, I drew on that bull 3 times before killing him. I jumped a bull from his bed one day, and called him back in !

I love hunting in dark timber. I love hunting on northern hill sides, real step with benches, flats and water. I don't care if its bedding areas or feeding areas or whatever, I've got 6-7 days to hunt and I'm going to hunt. I might bust elk out, but I might ease in a call in a good bull too.

For gear, I use a Schuh pack and Russell boots. I use a replacement blad box type knife. I always carry my Wyoming bone saw. I carry pine knot shavings, toilet paper and a cig lighter and matches vaccummed (emergency kit) I wear fleece almost exclusively. My socks are important, I buy the best I can get. No GPS, no binos. I have a 2 lb 6 ounce bag, a 5 pound REI dink tent that keeps me dry. This fall I'll be using Jet Boil and Mtn House meals. I'll wear the same clothes for the most part every day, Secret non-scented antiperspirant for a bit of odor control and extra undies and socks. Petzl head lamps, AA batteries and my digital camera.

Todd,
 Great thread. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I'm waiting (im)patiently for the next Chapter.

Kyle

I know other people have chimed in here with good advice and have kinda' "jumped the string" and have moved forward a little faster then I am. Most of this is pre-typed so I'm still going to add my advice to this thread. Sorry if you read the same things twice.

Enjoy,

Todd
====================================================

Section 6,  "Continuing On"

Well here it is, Day 3 of your 7 day hunt. The opening weekend is over and you have hit 'Beaver Creek' pretty well, but still haven't had much luck.

"What next?......There is plenty of sign in 'Beaver Creek' but the elk just don't seem to be in there consistent. I've seen a few here and there on distant ridges and hill sides, but by no means have I 'been into elk'. I have found where they were bedding, I have found a few fresh rubs, I've even smelled them to the point where my eyes were burning but I still haven't 'been into elk'. What next?"

If you are having the above thoughts, the only thing I can tell you is,.... Congratulations, you have experienced hunting "pressured grounds". Usually what is happening is the elk are moving in and out of the country during the night, or are just traveling through.

This is where you pull out that Topo and start looking it over. Since you have done your homework and talked to the biologist enough to have several hunting areas picked out, don't be afraid to check on other areas. At the same time, don't be afraid to cover one area enough to give it a fair shake.

You'll notice that after opening weekend, the people numbers will go down. Give 'Beaver Creek' a rest for a couple of days then hit it again Wednesday. There is a high possibility that the elk will move back into the area.

If you are hitting the areas you have picked out and a few others that just look good, but are still having trouble getting into critters there are only two directions you can go from here. Either up or down. You may have to scale a pretty rough peak or drop off into one nasty canyon to get into elk. If you are into sign all of the time, but don't seem to be into elk, they have moved to where there is less pressure.

Elk don't mind walking 5 miles for water. They can cover a tremendous amount of rough terrain in short order and make it look easy. They might travel from 10500 feet to 7500 feet just to get a drink, and then head back up to that 10500 elevation to take a nap. It's work alright, but if you want an elk, you might have to make that journey yourself. Even though it's exhausting and rough, you can do it.

Don't be afraid to hit some extreme low country as well. This is probably my biggest secret I'm going to share with you. Don't think you have to be in the dark timber or Aspen trees to see elk. Give the gnat infested cedars and pinion country a try. It will probably be hotter by 20 degrees, and you won't think elk are in the country at all. After all, this is 'winter country'. I'm here to tell you that resident herds of elk will inhabit this country, and likely, you'll be the only person stupid enough to be out in 95 degree weather looking for elk. You've all heard the saying about "Desert mulies."? The same holds true for elk. If you find a water hole with some fresh sign out in the desert, the elk are as good as dead. They will still want to rut, and they'll still want to wallow. This country can be extremely hard to hunt mentally. Everything in your body and mind is telling you "there is no way elk can be here", but if you have so much as seen one elk track, there are elk there.

Keep in mind that in this type of terrain during the bow season time of year, there are going to be way more bulls then cows. This means serious competition and well executed cow calling is like love potion #9.

Most of the country I'm talking about is between 5000 and 7000 feet above sea level. Try to find small towns with alfalfa farms in this type of country and hunt the public benches around the alfalfa fields. Find their routs to and from bedding areas and ambush them. Don't be afraid to track down farmer John and ask if you can hunt his hay stack. Most hay farmers have a profound hatred for elk, and don't mind letting you respectively hunt their property. Even if he tells you no, you still have a 50/50 chance of him saying "yes."

Elk by nature are a plains desert animal and are as adaptable to different kinds of terrain as a cockroaches. Make sure and ask the biologist about resident elk herds in the lower country. If the Biologist say's there are elk in the area year round, and you have hiked your butt of in the high country, take a rest that evening and go travel some dirt roads in the lower country looking for elk sign. Most BLM cattle ponds are right next to the road in this type of country and finding elk sign can be really easy. You can even do this after dark. Look for tracks in your head lights.

There is still a load of info to come..........

Good luck,

Todd

Todd,  You've got this all pretyped?  Like in ready to send in to have published as a book?
You should!  This is great stuff!

Section 6 continued........

Here it is, the 4th morning of your hunt. You're tired, fatigued, exhausted, and discouraged. You still get up, get some coffee perkin', stretch your tired muscles and put on your hunting boots. You have a talk with yourself saying "Self, I don't know why I spent the money to do this. We've hiked our butts off you and I, Self, and the only luck we've had is been bad. Nothings going right, Self. Why are we even wasting time getting out of bed? Where are we going to go? Why are we going to go there only to get skunked? I can't believe I let you talk me into this."

This is when you really got to dig down deep, take a couple Tylenol and hit it again. While glassing the evening before, you spotted a herd of about 10 cows and one rag horned bull about two miles up the most unforgiving slide rock hill side imaginable. You dig deep and decide, "Self, we have to go up there just to check it out."

You drive to the location, park the truck and begin the grueling climb. You're still discouraged. "How are we going to get on those elk even if we do make it up there?" Your spit balling trying not to be discouraged yet everything you have is telling you to pull up the stakes and give up. Yet, you keep hiking trying to find some light at the end of the tunnel. You start wondering what your wife is doing, how the kids are,......start thinking about how work is going without you........are my feet actually going to fall off......pretty much, you are trudging. But you keep going thinking that you are never going to get into elk. "Keep going, Self. We'll go home if this doesn't pan out."

All of a sudden, the biggest racket/ruckus erupts not 20 yards from you. The sound of hoof beats suddenly breaks the negative thoughts that only moments ago filled your mind. Once again, that eye burning smell of elk takes your breath away, and you're left standing with your mouth open wondering what just happened. The reality of it all sinks in as you watch your quarry file up the distant slope. Every elk hunter in the world has had this talk with themselves..... "SELF!!!!!,,,,, Why weren't you paying attention?!!!! WE WERE CLOSE!!!!! THEY WERE CLOSE!!!! Hey,,,,....... We were close, Self....... We GOT INTO ELK!!!!!!!!!! We are going to pay better attention from here on out,.....we can't let that happen again......YES!!!!!....That was AWESOME!!!!" It takes 5 minutes before you stop shaking, and it's going to take a hard hit to the head to ever forget that first up close and personal encounter with the animal you so badly have dreamt about. To convey this feeling of the first experience with them is next too impossible to do in text. I can promise you that after that first time, you will have a little more giddy-up in your hikes for the rest of the hunt.

Not very often is there an easy elk hunt. It's never easy. But I guarantee, keep going because it will be worth it................

More and more to come.......

Todd

Todd,

and you other more experienced elk hunters,

This is really great stuff, I can't get enough of thinking, talking, and dreaming about elk.

I want to discuss the calling section a bit more.  First, I am sure more elk hunting has been screwed up by bad calling and "saying" the wrong thing at the wrong time with calls.  However, and this may depend on how pressured the elk you are hunting are, I have heard some terrible sounding calls from the real thing.  


Cows screaming their heads off like babies, bulls that sound flat, little squeaks, grunts only etc.  One thing I have began to do when analyzing elk sounds in the woods, is assess how "perfect" the sound was.  It seems that several times the most "perfect" bugle was from another hunter.  Mostly I am talking about the low to high bugle with three perfectly spaced grunts at the end.  I think you were getting at this in your post Todd, but I sometimes wonder if when and why is not 10 times more important than how perfect it sounds.  A bugle that gets scratchy at the end, or a cow call that goes flat can get a response from elk, I know, it has happened to me.  However, those elk believed, because what I was "saying" was in the right place at the right time.  

Just wondering what you real experienced elk guys have learned regarding what I am talking about.

Todd, you nailed it with the mental aspect.  That is by far, the hardest part.  You can have success calling if you are not a world champion and you can find elk in unlikely areas, but if you can't keep your head in the game you are toast!

Keep it coming,

Nathan

Nathan,

Great questions and observations.

You are absolutely correct. Applying the sounds is the key aspect when calling.

I too have called them in and have not been 100% perfect with my sound. Those were usually very low pressured elk during a rut inferno. I have noticed the error margins with your sounds depends totally on the elks mood and how pressured they are.

I too have herd some terrible calling from the real thing. Cows and bulls alike. The only thing I can suggest when they are sounding terrible is....... Elk can sound as terrible as they want and get away with it, well, because they are elk.

The thing with calling is the elk in the area are eventually going to find out if that terrible sound is human or elk. The same holds true for exellent calling. When they start finding out it's human, thats when they start to go nocturnal with the rut. Where as an elk can walk right in the middle of the herd sounding as terrible as it wants and as long as other elk can visualize where that sound is coming from they won't worry.

Once again, great questions and observations.

My previous calling advise is geared more tword the high pressured public lands as well as this hole thread. Keep in mind that for every one elk called in and taken, 10 elk are educated.

Thanks once again for your valuable input.

Good luck,

Todd

Whip's right Todd, You need to think about an article in some of the magazines. Great stuff!!

I would be glad to take the pictures for it on are elk and deer hunt this fall.  :D  Really looking forward to it bud.

Tracy  :archer:

This is all good stuff.  I'm going on my first elk hunt this fall and I've learned more practical elk hunting info here than in all the books by the "experts".

Mark  :bigsmyl:    :clapper:

More, more.

Section 7. "The shot."

Yesterday was a booster. You got into elk finally and have found your second wind.

Today you head out to the same area. You figure it's about the best place, and even though you scared the elk away, there was way too much sign in this area to ignore it for long. Once again, you pop a few pills and head out.

You take it slower today. You're playing it by the book. Walk a few yards, stop and glass. You make your way to a draw by where the elk were yesterday and find a good vantage point for glassing. The first 20 minutes are uneventful. It's about 10:00am already, and you haven't seen an elk yet. Things have been quiet and you figure "What the heck. Let's see what a cow call will do."

"Eeeww—EeeeeEEewww" you chirp. Too your amazement, not 200 yards below you, your efforts are rewarded with a lazy bugle.....

Your heart starts racing, your blood starts boiling, and you are on the verge of panic. "Self....???????? What are we gonna do????" You decide listening would be the best option. Sure enough, you hear nothing else. "Wait.......Was that a stick breaking???".....

If I was faced with this decision, the first thing I would do is get directly down wind of where that lazy bugle came from and I would do it in a quiet hurry.

You circle about 100 yards down the slope of the draw and now figure the bugle came directly above you, but the wind is perfect for this setup. You quickly hide in some pretty thick cover so the elk has to get close to see you, yet you don't setup in vegetation so thick there is no shooting lane.....

"EEEEeeeeWWWwww.." you chirp.

This time, the bugle isn't nearly as lazy and is 100 yards closer to the spot where you first chirped. He isn't being shy now.

"Pop.....Snap....." You hear him coming..

Your arrow is knocked. You first see him about 70 yards out. As he moves his head to maneuver his rack around the tree tangles you can hardly contain yourself. From here on out is crunch time. No room for error now. "Self....This is it....Avoid eye contact, Self. Make sure and hold still, Self." With moving no more then your eyeballs, you survey the surrounding area and where the bull is coming from. Look for shooting lanes either to your left or your right. Try to give an educated guess as to where he will circle to get down wind. Make no mistake about it, he is going to try and smell you.

He hangs up about 50 yards out. You throw one more chirp... He moves closer. He is as big as a horse and it's like he's tied to a rope and you are pulling him in. He is now only 30 yards away. You concentrate on his feet and you are hiding your eyes below the brim of your hat. You're shaking so bad you hope he doesn't hear the vibration. 5 of the longest minutes of your life pass before he takes another step. "Self....Just hold still...He won't leave unless given a reason, Self. Calm down, pick a spot, and follow through with the shot, Self!"  He starts circling to your right. "Self,....Timing is everything....Don't blow it now....Hold it TOGETHER, Self!!!!" As his head disappears behind that little sapling, you quickly maneuver your hips so your setup for the shooting lane that puts him within 25 yards. The predator in you has come out 100% and you are running on nothing but adrenalin and instinct. As soon as he is broadside you whistle softly to stop him.

You come to full draw as he snaps to attention..........You pick a spot right behind the front shoulder, and release the arrow................

The arrow sinks to the fletching only 1" high and 2"'s to the left of your spot.

You know he is dead but the reality of what just happened hasn't hit you 100%

It's very important to listen after the shot. I've heard of people having good blood trails with elk. I've never been that lucky. I've shot them with two blade's and with Snuffers, I've hit them in both lungs and have even dead squared the heart and have yet to have what I would call a good blood trail. I've helped track several of my buddy's elk with the same results. I have been on well over 50 elk tracking jobs and have never been able to rely on blood for tracking.

It's my opinion; there are no "Good" hits with elk. It's my opinion there are only two types of hits. There are "Perfect" hits, and "Horrible" hits. If you don't take out both lungs or the heart with these massive beasts, your chance of recovery is well under 10%. It will blow your mind how far an elk can go on one lung and no liver. However, if you take out the pumpin' station he will die very quickly. Their size works both ways. Since they are so big, they have huge lungs and heart to supply blood to that enormous body. One lung is plenty big enough to support them for miles and miles. But if you take out both lungs that huge body will get oxygen deprived in a hurry. I've never hit an elk in both lungs or the heart and not heard or seen him/her go down.

Most of the blood I have found has been on trees or brush the elk rubbed against while on their death run. Elk are big enough and weigh enough they usually leave hoof prints, but following these can be extremely difficult when in grassy, leafy, conditions or when there is a pile of elk sign.

What I'm getting at is, don't expect a blood trail. If you get one, great. But don't count on it. Listening for your elk to crash in my opinion is your best odds for recovery.

Let's talk about shot placement a little more. I said before that Dr. Ashby has me convinced with his single bevel studies and FOC and such. But nobody will convince me you can get an arrow through the scapula of an elk, PERIOD! Short of a 30-06 and a well constructed bullet there is no way. I like to keep my shots about an inch behind their shoulder crease and in the upper sections of the lower 3rd of their chest cavity. No different then any other critter really.

I would say that I'm not even half way done with this thread. There are still pages and pages to come.

Once again, take from it what you will and shrug what you won't. I feel I need to keep expressing that none of this is scientifically proven. This information is based off of my experiences alone and is no more then what works for me.

Thank you,

Todd

Todd, Cool my Brother, Nice post.

Now we need some pic's of the fruit of your labor.


(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elkwallow.jpg)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elkrub.jpg)

Stocking in on a small herd.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/vancestocking.jpg)

Elk live in GOD's country.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/purplemountainmajesty.jpg)

It's good to speak the language.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/bugling.jpg)

This is what your looking for.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elk-1.jpg)

How bought a closer look.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elkzoom.jpg)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elk.jpg)

This Bull took 3 days and 7 loads to get him out, it's a pain pleasure thing.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/packingoutelkhorns.jpg)

Thanks, King. That is one dandy bull!!!!! 355ish?

I know what you mean about the pain pleasure thing. It's the pack out that really tests your salt.

Thanks for chiming in. I really appreciate the "sign" photo's as well.

Todd

Also, King....

Is that dark spot on his sholder the impact wound? If not, where did you hit him and how was the blood trail? How far did he go?

Once again, thanks.

Todd

Todd, to make a long story short I had to hit him again, the follow up shot was at 10 feet and he fell where you see him after a huge thunder and lightning hail storm.

He was quite the specimen, I love everything elk hunting has to offer.

We where in a wilderness area and no vehicles allowed so he has to come out on your back.


Fresh rub like he just walked away.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elkrub1.jpg)

Big bull country.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/elkcountry.jpg)

I love to sneak around in Elk country.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/fulldraw.jpg)

This tree just jumped right in front of my arrow saving a monster bulls life.( notes the Grizzly Broadhead is completely buried into the tree)
 (http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/arrowintree.jpg)

This will usually get them to start to bugling.
 (http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/2005colorado.jpg)

Self portrait on the seventh day.
 (http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/selfpic.jpg)

What an awesome thread! I am currently planning and preparing both physically, spiritually, and mentally for my first elk hunt this fall. Thanks for starting this and for sharing the experiences you have so far Todd. I'm looking forward to the rest!  Thanks also to the others who have posted.  I can already feel the excitement running through my bones when I read your posts!  I'm pumped!  Cheers, Matt

I too have completely enjoyed this thread...I have hunted elk and will again. But some of the advice I have received here will help in future hunts.
I just have one thing to add...our experience with calling game biologist's is, they are hard to get a-hold-of and when you do, you had better have done some home-work on the area you want help with.
If you just call and want to know where the elk are, you will be disappionted.

Where the rest?  :)    :confused:

I've decided that there does indeed need to be some educational photo's added to go with the rest of what I have.

Thank you so much for your interest. Please do give me a couple of weeks to get some pics scratched together.

Thanks,

Todd

More,more,more!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to say this is fun. It brings back a lot of memories. I can't wait for this fall. Gary

My hunting buddy Vance, called this bull into 15 yards, he was already tagged out.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/vance/DSCN2491.jpg)

The best meat on earth.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/kingwouldbe/vance/DSCN2469.jpg)

What are you thoughts on decoys for hunting elk on your own.

I love it!!! You did a great job the only problem I have is that the gas is WAY over budgeted for me.   ;)  
When I was planning my first elk hunt I lived in Iowa. I opted to rent a moving truck instead. It's been pretty cheep ever since.    :bigsmyl:

keeping this one near the top. great stuff.

This is one of the best threads yet.  It is full of good stuff I will use on my trip next fall.  I have been to both Montana and Idaho on DIY hunts, but I have spent a lot of time bumbling and fumbling through the mountains learning as I went.  I have been fortunate to get close to a few Elk just by going slow, being quiet and watching the wind, but I didn't really have a clue what I was doing.  This info is going to give me a lot more confidence and drive when I'm in elk country.  Thanks, Todd
Burnsie

If it isn't already there, this should go in the Classics forum.

Todds not done yet guys, He is just working alot lately but you are right this is a classic.

 :thumbsup:  

Tracy  :campfire:    :goldtooth:

:thumbsup:   Thanks for the work here Todd, its obviously being enjoyed!
Todd has found what he likes and what works for him.  Thanks for sharing it with us Todd, so that we can learn from it. looking forward to reading the rest of it.

If I can throw in my two cents.  It is my observation that we as hunters tend to get stuck in saying that this is what works, don't do this, do this, etc... Though not very many hunters do everything the same but alot are consistently every year successful doing things differently.  Not blaming Todd here, just saying that we should all have an open mind always to people like Iodd who want to share, and remember that our way is not the only way, nor always the best.  I think there is a point to be made here, sorry If i feel or sound preachy.

Todds "system" and Paradigm works.  IT kills elk, regularly.  IT is full of fundamental truths that when applied, push the odds in his favor.  It is a successful system, similar to skinning a cat, it can be done a bunch of ways, but in the end its easier with a knife and experience no matter what you do in between.  

Basically, it could be said that anyone who thoroughly studies and applies Todds system, with the additive of experience, will be relatively as successful as Todd is (with a few limiting factors).

As Brad pointed out, it isn't the way he does things.  That doesn't mean that Todds system doesn't work, nor Brads, nor mine, which is a bit different still.  

But in studying all of these ways of going about it and applying them, you can become more succesful.  Broadening your horizon this way can make your success skyrocket, as you can adapt and change to the situation.  No two days need to be the same, only as the elk and situations dictate.

For instance, I rarely spend two consecutive days in the same area, unless there are a lot of elk and the elk are really fired up, if so, why move? I live close to the ares I will hunt.  I hike in them a couple of times a week at least throughout the year.  I try to have as many "go-to" spots that I can, spots that hold a very high concentration of elk who aren't molested relatively often. I develop a few every summer, and one or two pan out in the fall.  This way, I now have nine (given the ebb and flow of honey holes) where I can go.  If one isn't hot, than I move to the next.  I've kept a journal every time I've been in elk country the last 12 years or so (wasn't smart enough to write things down before that).  Studied the effects of calling strategies I used, the sounds, what worked and what did not.

 Unlike Todd, I believe VERY strongly that bugling works staggeringly well, but only correct bugling, and have seen many hunted-public-land-general-tag herd bulls die from coming to a challenge or challenging a nosy intruder.  Yes, I think the bulls are saying something in particular when they speak, and will respond when we say believable things to them, its in their blood.  Not that I think Todd is wrong on this, as for him he is dead on.  but for me,  I've developed a relatively large system of calling that covers the phases of the rut, when they are talking, when they are not, when they are fired up, who I think they are talking to, what I think they are saying, etc...  Admittedly I will never know what they are really saying, but my system of calling, whether cold or through replies, kills several elk every year, from Aug 25 into October, calling in many more.  At the same time, a couple of them have died by spot and stalk and still hunting.  So, what do you like?  

I have a pseudo-friend named Paul Medel (elknut), some here might know him too (love him or hate him), heck he might be a member, hes a trad guy now.  HE too has a system of calling that he has developed through study and observation over the years.  Its dang effective, hes laid it out abc in videos.  Alot of people are applying it and killing elk.  His system is very similar to mine not identical though, but they both work.  Elk respond to them, how we respond back is a personal preference, neither working 100% of the time.

Chuck Adams (heresy?)has killed some big bulls, and he uses stalking almost exclusively, and is very succesful, decrying the use of a cow call for any "mature" elk.  

"bigdan" outta Montana uses Bugling (never cow calling) almost exclusively, and you'd be hard pressed to find an elk hunter who is more successful at taking mature elk.

Experience matters, find what works for you.  Find what you LIKE and do it.  And for heavens sake, IMO don't go home for lunch, eat it on a log in elk country.  :-)

My dad and I call 12:30-2:30 "killing time" for a reason.  Elk have rested, and are willing to be up and moving.  Especially big bulls with cows who they feel are safe in their beds, in there safe Zone bedding ares.    

Good luck to all, and thanks again Todd for the informative and thought provoking post.   Sorry If I sound preachy.  Dan  
  :campfire:

holy Carp that was long!     :readit:    :knothead:

Forgive me for not reading all the many fine posts above (ahh, I look forward to retirement someday when I can read at liesure again), which may mean that this comment is a bit off-topic. Still, I thought some here might like to know that it appears Mike Murphy may have a couple of openings (due to cancellation) the last week of the archery elk season here (he's otherwise full-up). That's one of the best weeks of the season, with CO's most trad-friendly outfitter (in my experience; I'm sure there are others I don't know in other parts of the state). You can check in with Mike at tbarmoutfitters@frontier.net. Being a cowboy still living in the past, Mike still doesn't have a functioning website, but is slouching in that direction. His son and partner, Danny, rode into the main camp and hunt area a few days ago and reports seeing several hundred elk, including one bunch of 20 bulls, and only a couple of possible winterkilled skeletons ... good news since we had a monster snow winter and are in fear of massive die-off, which doesn't seem to be the case from all we are seeing. A couple of weeks ago I took a 20-mile horsey ride in the same country and saw the same: just two skeletons that looked like winterkill, and both were yearling cows/calves. Just fyi -- I have no financial investment in this, no business relationship at all with Mike, but merely want to put a great trad-hunting outfitter together with interested TradGang friends. dave

And to add to Dave's post above..... I fortunately, am a victim of Dave's recommendation.
Dave's right, Mike and Danny are traditional bowhunting cowboys that guide like traditional bowhunters, not rifle hunters.
Last year I took his advice and am glad I did.  I am going back again this year and bust up right in the middle of that herd of 20 bulls.

But don't tell'em.

TTT   can't let this one get lost

Glad to hear that. I'm going out with T bar
M this year. Can't wait!

With all the elk questions I thought I'd give this thread a bump: 1) to answer a lot of the questions being asked 2) to maybe get Todd to add those "pages and pages to come"

It's funny how a few weeks turn into a few months.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to devote the time and effort to this that I had first intended on devoting to it. Thank you all for your input and interest.

Next week, I'm heading out to get wicked seriouse with my pre-season scouting. I will give a good update at that time.

In the mean time, "Lost Arra" sent me this wonderfull acount of 100% elk hunting via PM. I asked him if he wouldn't mind me sharing as this is a wonderfull depiction of the highs and lows and how the highs make the lows worth it in a big way.

Thanks once again,

Todd

____________________________

Lost Arra's Message---
posted June 28, 2008 09:58 PM          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Todd: Last season was my first DIY bow hunt for elk, Colorado OTC. [I had "hunted" elk in college (Univ of Wyo) but I just followed my local buddies around.]

Last August I backpacked into a wilderness area and by day 5 I had seen no elk but a ton of mulies and my first-ever in-the-wild bear at 40 yards.

Day 6 from the top of a ridge at dawn I saw a bull bugle about 100 yards from my tent. Unfortunately, I was about a half mile from my tent.

Day 7 I'm discouraged and thinking you have to spend big bucks to get a guide to hunt elk. I oversleep and head up hill. Within 200 yards of my tent a bull and a cow parallel my course up the mountain and cross in front of me at 40 yards. Fortunately I didn't shoot because they looked like 15 yards. My perspective is Oklahoma whitetail deer. These elk looked the size of a school bus. I thought "I can't miss!" Fortunately for all involved, common sense won out and I didn't shoot.

15 minutes later another bull, cow and calf cross my path again at 40 yards.

In both instances, the wind was perfect. The elk never spooked or ran off, just disappeared. The problem was I reverted to whitetail hunting, I froze. I think now I could have closed the distance and gotten a shot but I never tried.

I had to leave the next day so I got no meat but I realized I CAN DO THIS.

A close friend who was a good elk hunter (he recently died at a young age from cancer) told me that any bow hunt that gets you under 50 yards to an elk is a success. A shot is a blessing and a dead elk is heaven but a whole lot of work. Never be discouraged. Enjoy yourself and feel blessed to be in elk country."
__________________

Thank you Lost Arra for this wonderfull account!

Uping this thread for those that are thinking about it.. Quit thinking and do it..

K.S.Trapper took several of these photos on his trip out last year.. Thanks Tracy!

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/cowandcalf.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/deepcreek1.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/rightbycamp11.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/SUNP0030-1.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/SUNP0011a.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/4.jpg)
  (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/5.jpg)

Todd

Somehow I missed this entire thread when it was new, but just read the whole thing over the last hour!  

Thanks for bringing it back up Todd.  Lots of great stuff in there!  I'm going back for my 4th time in 5 years this fall.

Best advice of all for those thinking of going is to go ahead and do it.  Plan for it, prepare for it, but just do it!  I regret I waited until my late 30s before giving it a try, but I plan on going every year if possible for at least the next couple of decades!

Dude Im going Blind...LOL   :biglaugh:

Missed this thread back in '08. Thanks for bringing it back up.

The beginings of a wallow

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/chalies3.jpg)

A well used rut wallow, and good friends enjoying good times. Thanks again for taking these photos, Tracy!

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/16.jpg)

The view of elk I most often see... Even on trail cams... Go figure..

 (http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/papsblueribbon1/elkbutt.jpg)

Todd

The pleasure was all mine buddy and I can't wait for the next time  :bigsmyl:  

Looking forward to coming back out in April, Has the mountain gotten much snow this year? I was looking forward to taking some spring picks and showing Marla the mountain but I know it will be early.

Tracy

The mountain has more snow on it then it has had in almost 20 years. There is 2 feet at my dads house..... I highly doubt we can get up top come April...

I'll show you all of my shed hunting spots though.... Come on April!

Todd

That sounds great my friend  :goldtooth:  

Lets try to get in some stump shooting too!

Tracy

Hate to see this thread die, so i'm going to ask a question i've been pondering, and bring it back up to boot. I love this idea of backpack in elk hunting. We dabbled in it a bit in '08, but were woefully unprepared. I have upgraded my pack, and tent, now needing advice on a good light,warm sleeping bag, and what type water purifier. Thanks in advance for teaching me, what you learned the hard way.

If I may jump in, I have done quite a bit of backpacking both for hunting adventures and non-hunting adventures.  The Katadyn (used to be PUR) hiker water filter is a good one.  I have used it all over MT, ID, WY, and UT.  Packs up small and is pretty light.  They make some pretty good chemical treatments these days that don't add unwanted flavor but I have not yet personally tried them.  I keep some iodine tablets in my day pack "just-in-case".

I use a Marmot, synthetic 0 degree bag.  I somehow always seem to get wet somehow when hunting/backpacking so I steer away from down.  My bag is just under 4 pounds.  I like the comfort it gives and I will sacrifice the weight for that.  You have to make the call.  Some guys go so ultra-light it is unbelievable but they definately comprimise some comfort.  The synthetics just keep getting lighter and more compressible.  The North Face, Marmot, Mountain Hardwear, all make great synthetic bags.  As a side note, I am paranoid about popping an inflatable sleeping pad so I use a ridge rest and am thinking about upgrading to a newer closed foam pad made by the same company but I can't remember the name.  The inflatable pads do tend to be more compressible and more comfortable, but like I said if you pop it you could be screwed and I have been with people who's pads didn't inflate.  I was glad to have my cheap foam pad then!

A couple other things I have upgraded to over the years:

Titanium cookpot
MSR Pocket Rocket
Lightweight headlamps
All synthetic clothing
Eberlestock Blue Widow Pack

Todd, I applied for one of your favorite units.  Not the one in the pictures above.  It is a long shot but we will see.

Nathan

Thanks for the re-read. There is some great advice here for sure. It is enough to get your blood boiling. The snow is deep agian today but the hunt will be here before we know it so get ready if your thinking of doing it. Time to get warm and enjoy some elk stew.

I'm thinking about the "Agnes" bag, it has no insulation on the bottom side, just a pocket that you're pad slides into, anyone have any experience with these? Sounds like it saves weight, and should be reasonably warm. Nothing like someones unbiased review though.

Thanks for the help Todd. Been thinking about elk. I just need to GO DO IT.

This thread is great.  TTT

Awesome thread. I am sending it to a good hunting buddy that doesn't visit this sight regularly.   :thumbsup:  I hope to hunt elk sometime and it will be a whole lot sooner if I don't have to save the money for an outfitter!

One day...one day in the near future.

Yeah I wish! That is the only hunt I dream about.

So I can find this later...

Great thread  :thumbsup:  


Thanks

Margly

This has to be one of the best threads ever .thanks so much for all this info in one pkg.I will not let this post die TTT.

Very nice area.
SOMEDAY..........

I just read the whole thing. Gives me a bit more confidence that I might not be getting too old to do this.  Also indicates I should accept an offer I've been made.

I just printed this whole thing out. I didn't want to lose it if the internet dies...! Thanks a ton!!

Extraordinaire work,very useful,thank you

We did a DIY Co. elk hunt this past Aug/Sep. we were out there for the start of the season but you still have to pack for any kind of weather..We hauled 2 of these guys out from WV there were 3 of us,I think besides the $540 tag a 3 day fishing lic. the gas cost us about $300 ea. It's not cheap but I think we did it for under $1200...This pic was taken Aug.31 2010   (http://i51.tinypic.com/e0ie8n.jpg) we can home empty but you can't beat the experience.  (http://i56.tinypic.com/20znv9j.jpg)

Great picture of the stream, lake and mountain...did you catch any frying pan trout? That sure helps to supplement the menu of freeze dried stuff!

Is that mule yours or did you "rent" it? A llama or a mule would be a big help. Thanks.

We ate fish about every night,there were trout in every hole but we didn't fish that lake we camped a couple miles from that lake... The mules belong to a friend that goes out every year.That was my second time with him,his first with a longbow an also his first time shut out..

TTT.  Season is fast approaching!

I love reading this post. For the first time in my life, I'll be heading West twice in September. Not that I need help in getting excited about a hunt, but this post is a motivator.

Bring this one back to the top with elk season approaching...

good thread nice pics to   :thumbsup:

TTT

Awesome photos! I can't wait to go elk hunting.