Hello all,
I have an opportunity to get one of these bows at a really good price. But it would be sight unseen. I understand that Bear isn't the company of the past, but they still make some decent bows IMO. Does anyone have any opinions on this bow?
Thanks
they sure are pretty, not any :help: but true.
I know a guy who has sent his supreme back twice!
You'd be better off with somethin' else. Take the money and put it on something that is known to stand up to what we are doing with these bows. Bear isn't even the name of the company anymore. They are not in the business of making bows, they're in the business of making money. Imagine a group of young suits sittin' around a board room callin' the shots on a huntin' bow. Not exactly a great recipe for craftsmanship.
much better bows out there
With-out a dout the best take down system ever...bar non...About 90% of Bear take downs are still in service after 39 years in the field.Pretty good track record there...bowdoc
I have a take down and it shoots great. With that said, if your going to spend the $1300.00 they want new, I'd look into a true custom. The bows speed isn't up to snuff and the grip is rather long and generic. Like bowdoc said it's a tuff son of a gun and for not changing in forty years it had to be the cream of the crop back then.
If I had $1300 to spend on a bow I would get two of the older Bear t/d's. I see them every now and then for sale for $500 to $700 used but still in great shape. I have 2 wooden B handles made in the 80's, a B and an A handle made in 2001 and an A & B magnesium handle along with 7 sets of limbs varying from the old green tips to the modern FF limbs. I love those bows; I shoot them all and hunt with one in particular. I am very rough on my bows and have never had any problems with any of those bows. So my sugestion is to stay away from the Supremes and get a couple of Bear t/d's that were made by Bear Archery not made by "a group of young suits sittin' around a board room callin' the shots on a huntin' bow." (Abel, that is a great description! Sad but true!!)
yep they are pretty but for that much money i would get a morrison or acadian with all the bells and whistles custom made to my specs ... just my thought
I would agree with Bowdoc, best td system ever designed and the bows shoot great.
If the price is right I don't think you would ever loose money on it if you wanted to resale it.
As far as Bear being in the business to make money(as opposed to bows?), that how business works. I don't think you'll find too many bowyers remaining in business unless they are making money on their product. "young suits" calling the shots? Fact or imaginary?
Personal choice would come into play also.Myself I like all Bear take downs,and if I had the dough I would buy a Supreme today.Shoot if I had the dough I would buy two of them...but thats just my choice.One other thought on Bear take downs...is the bowyer that worked at Bear Archery and also did personal work for Fred on most all of his bows for well over 30 years.....Is the same guy who runs the take down department today.So please insult him nicely...A rose of any other color is still a rose..................bowdoc
My Bear T.D. is 25 years old and I love it. I wouldn't pay $1000.00 for any bow made by anybody even if they gave me somebody to follow me around and shoot it for me. Since we're all giving personal opinions here I have to say that once the bows hit $400.00 they lost me as a customer. I know the guys that build them work hard but I own a business and I work hard too but I had to find better ways to be more efficient and lower my prices over the years to stay competitive and I just think other businesses should follow suit.
I've been shooting Bear TDs since the 70s and hunt w/ a '69 B and a '71 B. I'm considering a Supreme cause it is made with probably the nicest wood of any model, barring the Signature. I just am reluctant to buy a high dollar bow that I would probably not hunt with as long as my older ones are holding up and they're just getting broke in real good.
Wow...great info fellas I really appreciate it. I am torn right now between a true custom and the bear. Basically, its gonna come down to money i think. I know I'll get the bear for a good price, since I am a dealer. However I contacted a bowyer and he gave me a really great price on a custom TD...dang!!!!!!
I guess I got some more research to do :knothead:
They're not the Bears of old. IMHO, they're overpriced and for the money you can buy a really good custom bow. (nut)
The latch system's elegant design is hard to beat. Since Frank Scott autographed a commemorative Super K manufactured in Gainesville for me in 2000, I don't think that the suits had much to do with the bowyers.
Remember when the venerable name of "Harley-Davidson" was mocked as "Hardly Ableson", "Hardly Driveable," "Hogly Ferguson" and the nickname "Hog" became pejorative? That was AMF(American Machine and Foundry, the bowling company), the same AMF that bought Wing Archery in 1968. Wing Archery- a division of AMF went out of business in early 1990's.
Bear didn't sell to AMF, it moved to Florida.
The design is still good. I guess the real question is how well is it built and how good are the materials they use. Even with the same guy running the shop he may have to work under different constraints than he did before the ownership changed.
If you like the looks of it and the price is right, then go for it. Personally, I wouldn't spend that much just for the pretty woods when I can get a used plainer looking one with the same design and quality of craftsmanship for less.
Snakeeater
Well no they are not the bears of old...but Black Widows are not the widows of old eather.None of them are...And as for being over priced..You get what you pay for right or should anyhow....You guy's are telling me some plywood peace of whatever is worth 1,200.00-1,400.00.... come on at least Bear used real wood...bowdoc
The Bear bashers on any of these forums usually have no clue what they're talking about. Bowdoc has the knowledge to speak for the Bear bows. The Bear Takedown, still will shoot with any other bow out there. I've used them for about twenty eight years and have not had any trouble with them. Without question...the best takedown system ever devised...durable and effective.
Oh....I don't need bells and whistles with my bows....they are distracting 8^).
If you all want to see what a real custom bow is...Check out this pic...it's a true custom...I cumtomized it myself....Ya gotta love em huh??? (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/fb001.jpg)
Not bad BD-almost as nice as the '69 you slimmed down for me. Grant
It's your money. If I had the cash, I'd own one of every bow made, but I love to shoot. I have a 1997 Fred Bear TD B riser and a 2007 A riser with RER limbs that twill shoot with pretty much any recurve made. Get what makes you happy, you can always make more money.
I have an old Grayling metal handled Bear TD that is an absolute dandy of a bow. Even with its B-50 string, it shoots as snappy as some of my FF customs, and faster than a few. I would not hesitate to buy another one...new, old, or anything in between. It is intellgently designed, smooth, quick, and quiet. If someone offered me a good deal on the bow you are looking at, my response would be "SOLD"!
Claudia
Overpriced? Seems like there isn't too many of the larger companies making traditional bows in the US any more: Bear, Martin, Hoyt, maybe some others? I think if you check the price of the Bear bows they are in line with similar other bows being offered by these other manufacturers. Why do we always want stuff made in this country, and then complain about the cost? Would it be better if all recurve production was farmed out overseas so we could save a few dollars instead of employing US workers to build the bows?
The Bear TD latch system has always been expensive to produce. From when it first came out through today, the Bear TD is almost always the most expensive bow offered by Bear. The late Paul Schafer thought it was the best design he had ever seen, and if I recall correctly, thought about utilizing it into his bows however the cost prevented him from doing this.
I have had Grayling and Gainesville Bear bows, with the inprovements in materials and production methods I'm not sure why some seem to say the new ones are not up to the old standards(other than looks maybe?). Like Vermonster, I'd like to have one of everything---I never met a bow I didn't like.
I have always desired a Bear TD and if I had the chance at a supreme model at a good price, I would consider it a big bonus! Anyone have any idea if the Supreme series has had a good following? That Bear supreme TD has got to be one of the best looking curves out there....
JL
I'm with the go for it crowd,yes it's a lot of money and no it's not a type 1 origianal from the early days but who's to say somday it maybe worth a great deal more than now....get it shoot it and don't look back.
Wish you well and keep us posted
The Dudester
schafer,brackenbury,blacktail....soooo much better than a supreme...try them first
barebow62, have you shot the Supreme? I agree to try others, but they won't be "soooo" much better. 8^).
Thanks, George.
What's a really good price? Is the Kodiak better than bows that cost half the price? If my heart was set on a T/D Kodiak, I would look at the used market before buying a new one.
I've spent a lot of online time looking at the Firefly takedown longbows, lately. They're under $600 bucks. Of course, they have a totally different T/D system...
george...ive got a supreme ..and the others plus widows etc so i am well placed to judge...the supreme is merely an "ok" bow,certainly compared to the others ive mentioned. The older bears shoot sweeter for me as well
Gotcha' friend. Seems you have no shortage of entertainment then either 8^). Each bow has it's own personality...even those of the same model. I'm an admitted Bear fan, so may be a tad prejudiced. ;) I grew-up just ten miles from Fred's home place.
i think everyone should be a fan of fred...a real sportsman and lets face it he did as much for archery as anyone,ever. my favourite is a kodiak mag,65# @ 28..my supreme is 70# and not in the same class(for me). ive a hunter t/d 65# which is pretty ordinary as well....as you say george each bow has its personality and i guess some just dont like me!! lol
I have three old bear TDs and I think they are great. The latch system is a good design. The Bear TD bows are very,very smooth. You might be money ahead to shop around for an older Bear TD for a lot less money. You would be buying a little history at the same time, and what could be more "traditional" than that?
Joe
I think the TD Supreme is drop dead gorgeous. It may be "middle of the road" performance wise but IMNSHO, all Bear bows fall into this category.
Still, it is gorgeous and I think the Marketing Director for Bear should be fired. They'd sell more of these if folks knew more about them and saw some nice close up photos of the bow.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for a Bear stickbow.
To say there is a bow that is better then one or the other is a little foolhearty and a crock to say the least....I read the post that said N.Johnson...Brack's .. Widows..borders...are better then a Bear.For the money you could get something better then a bear? What?? How do you figure that?? and if you are certin you know what your talking about or are you just writeing things down someone else told you.Because to make that statement....that one bow is better....How would this work ? I would love to know...does it answer the phone for you when you not home,or maybe it does the dishes...What does it do besides shoot arrows that makes it better?? please keep me posted....bowdoc
bowdoc Can't wait to meet you in Canada and I won't say anything bad about bear bows b/c I love them also.Maybe if mine did the dishes my wife would let me have more to keep up the house also.Kip
Hey Kip no kidding...we are going to have some fun.I can't hardly wait.This will be the best trip ever...What I really was getting at about the bows...is long bows recurves or whatever type device you use to loss your arrow is only delivering system.One could not be better or worse in the proper hands.See ya soon,bowdoc
Good thing ol' Fred used a "middle of the road performance wise" weapon or there would be no room in the Bass Pro Shops for merchandise! As is, he shot so many trophies that they filled a museum.
I guess critters didn't use steroids back in the day - now there are more drugs in our water supply than at Walgreens.
Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Lambo etc...= "Top of the line"
Ford, Chevy, GM, Saturn, Buick, Chrysler, etc...= "middle of the road"
Yugo, Tata, Espri etc....= "Bottom of the barrel".
What do you drive?
Clear enough for ya?
Oh man Tony you nailed it.......Bass pro would have to have paid more then the 3.5 million they already paid for all that middle of the road stuff..bowdoc
Any bow will get your arrow from point A to Point B in similar fashion. The difference is in how the bow fits your hand, your eye, your soul. You won't go wrong with a Bear.
David
bowdoc...otto sums it up
Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Lambo etc...= "Top of the line"
Ford, Chevy, GM, Saturn, Buick, Chrysler, etc...= "middle of the road"
Personally I think that Ford and Chevy are top of the line American made! That stuff mentioned as "top of the line" wouldn't be seen in my driveway! The point I'm making is that what Bowdoc said hits the nail on the head. In the proper hands any bow could be "top of the line". I've shot several different custom bows along with some brands that have been mentioned here. The Bear bows that I have perform every bit as good as any I ever shot. I like what Widowbender said"...the bow fits your hand, your eye, your soul." If a ferrari fits you then so be it; personally, I'll take a Ford truck.
This debate has gone on for over 10,000 years and I sure hope it goes on for another 10,000 years.That will keep our tradition alive.But for me,if my arrow is striking the bulls eye that day...The bow I am shooting then is the best bow ever built.But if some feel they need something different I have no problems with that at all...But to say one bow is better.And yes lets please stay with bows cause they are a bit different then cars.If your arrow makes a clean pass through on your critter....what would you want that would be better ??? help me out here guy's........bowdoc
I have read all the posts in this thread. I have to agree with Don(bowdoc) it is not about the bow, it is about the guy behind it. In the right hands a snakey osgae bow will outshoot all the so called great, Bracks, Widows, Schafers and yes even Bears. This is coming from a guy who has shot them all from old lemonwood bows to a DAS. None of the critters I have killed could of cared less what I was shooting!! As my wife would say to all this subjectiveness-- "Whatever blows your hair back" !! Shoot what ya like and who really cares what anyone else thinks! The origianal question was should the guy buy a bow that he thought was a great deal, well Hell yes, as guys who know me know that I can never pass on a great deal!! :bigsmyl: Shawn
Hey Dave,
I hope these posts convinced you to not buy the Bear.
Would you please forward me the info so that I can buy it? :bigsmyl:
Thanks fellas for the great info! I am not really concerned with what someone would think because I am shooting a bear. I was more concerned with the craftsmanship of it and if it did shoot nice.
Get a short trial period on the bow when you buy it. If it isn't your cup of tea, you can always return it and just be out shipping. If I didn'y have soooo many loose ends ($$$) to clean up, I'd be standing in line right behind you.
JL
I look for attention to detail and durability when I make a judgment about a bow. Things like glue lines, longevity of the finish, structural integrity, casting ability.....yes, that's right, efficiency and speed both come into play. I look at the overall product and I make a call. And usually I don't judge just one bow or model, but the overall line of bows that are offered. After seeing what Bear has to offer today and comparing it to what was being made by them in Grayling, I'll pass. After comparing today's Bear bow to today's Morrison or Great Plains, I'll still pass. I don't think I can afford to buy a stack of new Bear bows to find out if all the internet claims about the level of quality are true or not. Just my opinion folks.....I do own a very nice Kodiak Hunter from around '74 or '75 and its as smooth as butter and fine as wine. 44# @ 28" and 60" long. Green riser with a blue stripe through the middle. Not a speed demon, but its quiet and a pleasure to fling 1916 arrows with.
It comes down to, are you a bear guy?...Ive had a bunch of them, but when My draw got longer , they stacked more...but some bear guys just love em...I have seen the new ones , sold bear in the archery store I worked for, ok. Now for me speaking , for the way I shoot , there are much better bows out there for me, Acadian Woods, Whisperstick, Morrison , Trails End bows by Dale Dye , now thats for me...and my bucks... :)
Ok Ok once more.....you need what kind of bow to do what??? (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/art001.jpg)
Ya need to be a good hunter and fair shot, most anybow will do what it has too. To me they are all special, if the grip fir me I can shoot anything, do not get me wrong I like fit and finish but I have killed some pretty critters with some ugly bows. Bear bows are still some of the best so called production bows out there, but today the Morrisons and the Widows and many many others can be called production bows. Actually we should really say the bow is not as important as the arrow. Shawn
just buy a widow and dont look back!
yes sir the ARROW is the most important part...marco :)
Bear make great take downs. I shoot'em all. I have owned 2 different early Gainsville B handles that have had cracked risers. Bowdoc repaired both of them for me and I am still shooting one of them today.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/takedowns.jpg)
I think take downs are the best type of bows for hunting up here, just easier to transport, replace limbs, etc..., I have tried a few other brands of take downs, man can not live on bear alone...
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/takedowns006.jpg)
Wow. Guys, there isn't anything wrong with "middle of the road". I didn't say "middle of the road" was bad. I have nothing against Bear bows. Heck, I own about 10 of em myself.
I guess you all missed the part where I stated the bow was "Drop Dead Gorgeous". Overall I felt I was complimentary towards the bow. I never figured some of you guys to take it like I just slapped your grandma.
Sheesh.
Bows are like family Otto.............
George, I'm not a Bear basher.Take an old bnear and a new one made by Escalade and hold them in your hand. Look at the wood and finish. Tell me they're the same.(nut)
While your checking out that new Bear...please feel free to check out the new Widows too please and anyone elses bows that has been around since the 1970's.They are not the same as in 1970 eather....and whats really weird some are made by a machine now a CNC I think it's called ??? ......yuk......again guy's it ai'nt the bow.It's the nut on the handle comes loss...... bowdoc
Alaskabowhunter love ur bow racks buddy! nice..any bow that bowdoc refinishes I love... :)
Bowdoc, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that all companies started out making good product and that the standards have dropped since 1977? IMO, there are several bowyers out there who make bows that are superior to anything Fred Bear made in Grayling or anywhere else. Now, in 2008!
No I don't think I said they dropped in quality...I went back and read it again...I said they were not the same...never said eather way.....I would like to see what makes them superior to anything Bear made ? More so I am wondering what they do besides shoot an arrow is all I am wondering......bowdoc
Guys he asked about the Bear Supreme Kodiak TD. Let's stay on topic and not turn it into mine is better than your's please or anything else.
I sure think that new Bear Supreme take down is about one of the best looking bows Bear has come out with in several years...As for shooters I've not personaly shot the new Supreme risers so I can't say how the handle section works...But as for the limbs...I have tried several sets of the new FF limbs and they seem to shoot pretty good for me..nice looking bows...bowdoc