Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Mad Max on June 11, 2020, 06:40:04 PM
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Tell what you do?
Do you Positive or Negative Tiller?
For bows with arrow shelf 3/4" to 1-1/4" above center? and how much 1/8"??
Or like a selfbow or trilam with arrow shelf 2" above center? 3/16"/1/4"?
If you do the limb timing thing you end up with Negative
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I build my selfbows, backed and tri lam bows symmetrical with the center of the handle the center of the bow. I put my middle finger in the center of the handle and mark the arrow pass at the top of my hand, about 1 1/2" above center. While tillering I leave the bottom limb slightly stiffer than the top limb. Basically just eyeballing.
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I do it even or +1/8.
But I don’t believe the impact is important. My understanding of tiller is that it is relative to your nock height as well. So by changing your nock height you are actually changing your « dynamic » tiller
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I shoot split finger, I start with even tiller and weaken the top limb a little at a time until I get perfect arrow flight and very little hand shock. This usually ends up around 1/8" positive on the top limb.
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Like others, I tiller mine with about 1/8" positive tiller for shooting split finger and even tiller for shooting 3 under.
One exception - If you shoot by string walking or fixed crawl you will want a negative tiller. I did this once for a friend who at the time was using a fixed crawl. I had previously built him mild r/d bows that were whisper quiet and dead in the hand, but when he went to a fixed crawl, they became loud and had handshock. So the next one I built for him had about 1/4" negative tiller. It sucked to shoot if you shot split finger (like I do), but using a fixed crawl, it became a pleasure and was just as quiet as a positive tillered bow shooting split finger.
(Of course, he eventually decided to go back to 3 under and I had to re-tiller the bow for him :banghead:)
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Ya trying to start an argument in here Mississippi Boy?
:biglaugh:
You will get a 100 different answers on the subject.
Trial and error for each shooter is the best answer.
But I tiller for equal limb timing and I shoot 3 under and my bows end up between 1/8th to 1/4 negative.
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Ya trying to start an argument in here Mississippi Boy?
:biglaugh:
You will get a 100 different answers on the subject.
Trial and error for each shooter is the best answer.
But I tiller for equal limb timing and I shoot 3 under and my bows end up between 1/8th to 1/4 negative.
It's like everything else , everybody does it different in there own way :thumbsup:
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I generally make my bows with a longer top limb, and preordain every nock point 3/8" above perpendicular to the shelf.
I then tiller for limb balance while drawing the string where my string hand fulcrum will be. When it's built balanced relative to that nock point location and my fulcrums, there's no need to move nock points afterwards to 'fix' anything. There's nothing to fix.
Tiller profile at brace is merely a result after tillering is finished... not a beacon to guide me during the work. It simply is whatever it ends up as. Nowadays I don't even bother to take that measurement because it's meaningless. Sometimes it's negative, sometimes even, sometimes positive. It can vary from bow to bow, even if they're layed out and shot the same. How it ends up depends as much on the unbraced profile, any inherent internal differences in the limbs, etc. That can all change from bow to bow, as can their tiller profiles, while each is equally, accurately balanced.
Since my tree mimics how I shoot, I know if it's balanced on the tree, It'll be balanced in my hand and shoot an arrow just right, first time, every time. It's so simple and predictable.
Conversely, if I had two bows, the 1st with a little deflex in the bottom limb, where the 2nd bow was straight or had reflex, and tillered them both to the same predetermined tiller measurement... cuz that was my standard practice... which would be balanced/correct? One? Both? Neither? How would I know? Cuz the arrow flew poorly? Then what, move nock points to try to correct imbalances? Sounds like some unnecessary guessing and hoping to me... then fixing problems I built in. No thanks.
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Most of my bows have the shelf 1 in. above center. The two piece are sometimes as much as 1.75 above center. I shot for even tiller on all of them and adjust nocking points. The latest two piece I built is even with shelf 1.75 above center. And I shoot it as good as any that have been built by normal way. I say it has more to do with tuning your particular bow.
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Good Info here :thumbsup:
Thanks for your input ;)
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Anything for you Porky:)
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Anything for you Porky:)
https://youtu.be/gBzJGckMYO4
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Mike hit the nail on the head! Imo
I could hand someone three different bows set with three different tiller points and most people couldn’t tell the difference. Very few have done actually testing and most base their opinions on what someone else has told them.
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Well I’m gonna have to agree with someone. Not sure who.....but. :biglaugh:
I don’t have that many bows under my belt. So take this with a grain of salt. But I’ve ended up with bows tillered positive, negative, and even. The last few I tillered shooting for equal limb timing(I’m still not 100% sure how to achieve this). Meaning I’m not sure if the bow or the string should start out level on the tree at brace. And they were all even or negative.
Having said that, my quietest bow so far ended up with a negative tiller shooting split finger. I can’t remember exactly what the tiller was, but I’m thinking 1/8” negative. And it was tillered for equal limb timing.
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Yep. My best shooting bow, shooting split, is also just a little negative.
I level the handle area, because that's how I'm going to hold it, and how it should remain throughout the draw when everything is balanced.
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I like the bottom limb about 1/8" stiffer at full draw. Jawge