Post by: snowplow on May 30, 2020, 03:21:50 AM
Is there any reasons why you would not get the ILF?
Post by: hybridbow hunter on May 30, 2020, 07:57:54 AM
ILF has no interest at all for bowhunting. Unless you need to fight the boredom of retirement.
When things can be simple and effective why do you need to change?
If the bowyer knows his job, do you really need to set alignment of limbs? Do you really want to change the tiller and limb timing? Do you really need 2# draw weight adjustment to get your targeted draw weight? Do you really need to struggle more than enough to quieting the bow? Etc...
The more screws and setting the more you are in potential trouble...
Post by: Orion on May 30, 2020, 09:03:40 AM
Post by: Tooner on May 30, 2020, 09:08:22 AM
Is there any reasons why you would not get the ILF?
None.
I've been hunting with an ILF rig for well over a decade now and while they might not be everyone's cup of tea, there is nothing about it that detracts from the hunting experience and plenty of things that potentially add to it.
As far as noise goes, they are as quiet or as noisy as any other take down. It all depends on how you tune them. No different than any other bow. In my experience, the noise factor is simply a non-issue.
As to lateral limb adjustment, I have seen more than one expensive custom recurve where the sting would not track correctly, even when brand new Over the years, wood risers can and do twist slightly. Having the ability to align limbs is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's never needed until it's needed, and then it's pretty important...especially if you choose to utilize limbs from different manufacturers. Kind of like a spare tire. It's kind of like the spare tire in your car. Nothing but a waste of space...until you need it.
Do you want to shoot off the shelf? Great, tune your ILF rig accordingly.
Do you want to try an elevated rest. No problem, tune your ILF rig accordingly.
Do you want to switch from split finger to three under, or even use a fixed crawl for hunting. No problem, tune your ILF rig accordingly.
Want to pick up an inexpensive set of limbs for target, 3D, or form training? No problem. Just plug them in.
Have you ever had a limb delaminate a few weeks before a booked hunt? No problem. You can have a new set, exactly to your specs, on your doorstep within a week.
Lastly, in all the years I've hunted with an ILF bow, I have never had a screw or a bolt come loose that I didn't loosen myself.
Post by: stevem on May 30, 2020, 10:49:25 AM
Post by: Yooper-traveler on May 30, 2020, 10:49:53 AM
Want to try a low grip? Medium? High? No problem.
Want to give a sight a go? Bolt on a quiver? Yep.
Longbow limbs? Super curves? Carbon foam?
Like pretty wood? Beautiful limb lambs? Yep
Bow fishing rig to stumper to hunting rig?
Tuneability?
Swapping out limbs at a shoot just to give em a go in seconds?
Like a bow with some mass to it? Removing or adding weight? Yup.
Ever find yourself in a biker bar having to fight your way out? ILF baby! I wouldn’t want to scratch my HH!
I’m sure I’ve missed some stuff.
Not saying any of the above is needed or even wanted for everyone, or that wood one/two/three piece bows are not capable, but they are versatile and fun.
That said my favorite bows are ASLs and bear TD. But I always have several ILF rigs on hand. I recently picked up a DAS Tribute. Hard to put it down.
Post by: David Mitchell on May 30, 2020, 12:05:58 PM
Post by: M60gunner on May 30, 2020, 12:06:53 PM
Post by: Tooner on May 30, 2020, 12:20:52 PM
The nice thing is that if and when you want it to be something different, you don't have to buy a whole new rig to accomplish it.
People make it much more complicated than it actually is.
Post by: snowplow on May 30, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
One thing to remember is that an ILF bow is simply a takedown bow with a different kind of connection. It really doesn't have to be anything more than that...unless you want it to be. It's like comparing a bolt and pin takedown to a Bear "latch" takedown.
The nice thing is that if and when you want it to be something different, you don't have to buy a whole new rig to accomplish it.
People make it much more complicated than it actually is.
This really makes sense. All great points. Thanks guys :thumbsup:
Post by: hybridbow hunter on May 30, 2020, 01:20:35 PM
The riser twist thing corrected by right left limb adjustability is a real good joke. At least from a geometrical point of view. Take a minute to rethink how the hell you can fix a theorical riser twist (multiplanar deformity)with a right to left uniplanar adjustability?
You guys completely hide the facts and science under riser and limbs working.
For a given design of limbs/riser design and lenght/archer drawlenght , to get the best out of it in store energy and dynamic efficiency there is no real margin for adjustability and once you get the good limb riser pads angle for the chosen limbs for a given AMO lenght (when designing the bow) and tiller the limbs for a dead stop on that specific bow riser with perfect timing you get the best of that design. Anything more "adjusted" will be less effective.
That s why a bolt on dryad is faster pound for pound than the exact same ILF dryad rig. Everything you loose in efficiency means noise and vibes when shooting. There is no other way to hide a loss in efficiency for a bow.
Another thing is most ILF limbs are designed to be used on long riser around 25") with an average stress much lower than hunting rig and so is the hardware on limbs and riser. Now take the same ILF limbs on short riser with different limb pad angle, under much higher stress (string angle much less opened, bow weight higher etc) and you will definitely get much less durability, particularly on hardware and limb pocket/pad material. That means after a (very) few thousands of arrows more noise and vibes and then more odd for screws to unsetting etc..
There is NO WAY you will get the same durability with an ILF rig compared to a bolt on over a long run under heavy use, unless you put A LOT of extra money to get super hight quality steel hardware.
Elevated rest ? Stick it on you bolt on riser shelf and shoot..
Swapping limbs ? is easy with a bolt on as well if you buy extra limb set tillered to the riser. Some bowyer even doesn't t ask you to send back the riser.
LB /recurve limbs on same riser? There is plenty bowyer offering bow models with LB/ or Recurve swapping possibilities but they developed their limbs to give the best out of their riser design and most of the time you get a good recurve and a good longbow as well.
Is ILF in trad archery funny? Yes
Is it a good way to take your money with a "new to you " thing ? Yes
Do you need it to be a better hunter or to get you to a higher level in bowhunting shooting skills? NO
Simplicity and reliability is the keystone in a bowhunting weapon.
Post by: thumper-tx on May 30, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Post by: Friend on May 30, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Have owned seven ILF risers....am quite partial to them.
Post by: Tooner on May 30, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
While most hunters don't shoot anything that light, it says a lot about the durability.
Post by: MCNSC on May 30, 2020, 09:43:16 PM
Post by: Petrichor on May 30, 2020, 09:46:47 PM
Post by: snowplow on May 30, 2020, 11:25:53 PM
Every one I have shot has been loud and ugly. Not to say there aren’t pretty ones out there but they remind me of our friend with wheels. No thanks. Do yourself a favor save some money and get you a one piece bow and be happy.
Well for the record, I don't like most 3 piece or ILF setups. They just don't give me those fuzzy feelings. BUT I just spent a grand on a new bow and pretty much hate the grip. THAT SUCKS. I have always shot short lightweight bows. From what I read, the most unforgiving setups. So I started experimenting with something longer, heavier etc to see if there is any untapped potential.
So now I am thinking it makes a lot more sense to get an ILF rig (even though I don't really want one) so I can tinker with it and figure out what I really like. It sounds like you can change limbs, grips, centershot, mass weight and length pretty darn easy.
My idea is once I have an ILF setup I like best, I know what kind of bow I want to shop for. That's the idea anyway.
Hey PS, I really hate the idea of a metal riser but love the idea of trying different grips. Are there any wood ones that allow a grip change?
Post by: Tooner on May 31, 2020, 08:36:37 AM
Hey PS, I really hate the idea of a metal riser but love the idea of trying different grips. Are there any wood ones that allow a grip change?
They all do...with the help of a file and some sandpaper. Unfortunately, if you don't like the new style, it's rather tough going back. :biglaugh:
At the end of the day, everything is a series of compromises. If you want to utilize the benefits of a riser that is cut substantially past center, it's probably not going to be made of pretty exotic woods.
If you want something that is adjustable for changing needs or desires, it's probably not going to be as sleek and clean as a one piece bow.
If you want the ability to utilize marry limbs and risers from different manufacturers, it's probably not going to be with a proprietary takedown system.
We can talk all day long about the minute performance differences between a conventional TD and ILF but if we are honest with ourselves, very few of us will ever be able to exploit the difference, especially in hunting situations.
No style, design or material is suitable for everyone.
Post by: BAK on May 31, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Post by: Wudstix on May 31, 2020, 11:08:54 AM
:coffee: :campfire:
Post by: Petrichor on May 31, 2020, 11:15:27 AM
Every one I have shot has been loud and ugly. Not to say there aren’t pretty ones out there but they remind me of our friend with wheels. No thanks. Do yourself a favor save some money and get you a one piece bow and be happy.
My idea is once I have an ILF setup I like best, I know what kind of bow I want to shop for. That's the idea anyway.
I would think there are easier ways to find what you like. Went to Colorado a few years ago spent a day at RMS range and shot everything to my hearts content. After that I know very well I like mid length recurves and very long longbows.
Post by: GCook on May 31, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
My two piece 58" longbow barely fits in my compound airlines approved case. My three piece fits in my suitcase.
ILF is not my cup of tea but I know some who do really well in competition and hunting with them.
I say give it a go.
Post by: Miner49er on May 31, 2020, 03:29:16 PM
Post by: mjh on May 31, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on May 31, 2020, 10:30:58 PM
Post by: Ben Maher on June 01, 2020, 06:44:26 AM
They give up nothing IMHO in terms of durability and mine is as quiet as any recurve I have owned ...
All wins , no downsides imho ...
It’s just a limb connection system , that’s all .
Post by: Tooner on June 01, 2020, 07:06:24 AM
It’s just a limb connection system , that’s all .
Exactly.
Just like any other takedown, ILF can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. I have an ILF riser that has no screws or bolts in it other than the limb bolt. None.
Post by: Yooper-traveler on June 01, 2020, 12:43:14 PM
The only real argument I can make against ILF is that there are a lot of bowyers who need all the help they can get with this economic downturn. We've already chosen to handicap ourselves with a stick bow, might as well support a small business while we're at it. That said, there's a few custom bowyers making ILF risers and limbs, so I guess that argument doesn't hold too much water either.
I agree, Morrison, Stalker, CD, Dryad etc... Lots of US guys making and selling wood and metal ILF set-ups.
Post by: dnovo on June 01, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
You don’t want one! Don’t buy it! :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
Post by: NYRON on June 01, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
I did away with the holes and set screws for lateral limb adjustment. For the most part, lateral adjustment of limbs does not work well and in more than a decade of shooting ILF bows, I only once used the lateral adjustment to compensate for a twisted limb. Also, holes at the edges of the riser pocket are a recipe for cracking and the set screws a recipe for noise.
I also did away with the tiller bolt set screw and the need for the threaded hole to pass completely through the riser. This too is a recipe for debris, moisture, and noise. I solved the problem of the tiller bolt becoming out of adjustment by using a self-locking bolt with a silicone pellet. The tiller bolt can be easily adjusted with an allen wrench, but it won't turn on its own.
In the first photo, the black riser has the through hole with set screw that threads in from the belly of the riser. The wood riser is one of our Ranger models and has no through hole on the belly.
In the second photo, you cans see the silicone pellet that holds the tiller bolt without the need for a set screw or a through hole.
There are more pictures at www.yourlifecyclegear.com
Post by: Gil Verwey on June 01, 2020, 02:31:46 PM
The biggest concern I would have is the connection on certain model bows. One inexpensive riser to try would be a Hoyt Excel. We tested many sets of limbs on this riser and all were quiet and shot very well. It was comfortable to shoot also. We had several risers that were terrible all the way around.
I injured my shoulder 4 times. The last time stopped me from shooting completely for two years. I am just back into shooting and it is nice to have the same riser be able to get different limbs in different weights easily.
Good luck
Gil
Post by: buckeyebowhunter on June 01, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
I went through a bit of a gadgety phase which ultimately led me to purchasing the ILF rig. And while I enjoyed it at the time I grew kinda tired of the tinkering as a few others have mentioned. I was also shooting a crawl with it and have went back to a more instinctive shooting approach which in all honesty at the ranges I'm accurate at is fine anyways and probably more efficient. All I have to do is pick a spot when shooting instead of aligning, aiming, making sure my plunger is set, limbs are locked in side to side, etc. Which are all small things I got tired of with the ILF.
More fun to take a pretty bow to the woods and just hunt in my opinion.
Post by: ron w on June 01, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
Post by: Sam McMichael on June 01, 2020, 04:03:39 PM
Post by: Steelhead on June 02, 2020, 01:45:10 AM
With all that said I prefer my one piece bows,2 piece and non ILF 3 piece bows more.I know what I want in those style of bows and who's bows I like.So that's the road I prefer to travel and will probably stay on personally.
I think you should maybe try ILF for awhile and see what you think personally.Thats what I did.You may convert or you may not.Enjoy the ride!
Post by: Wudstix on June 02, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2: :thumbsup: