Trad Gang

I have only been shooting traditional for around 15 months so I'm relatively new to this side (I've not shot my compound since) but I did shoot a compound for 25 years prior, so I guess I'm not new either.

Poundage...wish I would have listened to the masses and started lower than I did but when your dumb ya half to be tuff.  I started last spring with my Savannah 50@28" drawn to 29" so it's around 52-53#'s.  I can shoot this very comfortably now for an extended session if I shoot 3 arrows at a time and don't over do it.  I can do it accurately out to around 15-18 yards.  I learned the hard way to get the form down and worry about the rest later...this took about three weeks to learn and a very sore body.  I have since learned to shoot only as long as I can concentrate on perfect form...this may be 12 arrows or it may be 70 arrows, but I stop shooting when I get frustrated or tired.

Now for the question???  Could I buy a Savannah that is rated for #60@28 or is this too much of a stretch/weight jump?  I know there are several good custom jobs out there for that kind of money but I like the grip of my Savannah and I shoot it well, not to mention I like the bow's looks.  I'm not a speed nut and pride myself on accuracy...speed isn't everything.  Is it too early to jump up that much?  I don't have access to a #60 longbow to shoot for a period of time to see how it affects my concentration.

Just don't want to make another bad decision and go over what I'm capable of, but at the same time don't want to buy a Savannah rated at #55 and then jump again to #60...too expensive and the wife already said no dice on that idea.    

Josh

Hey Josh,

There's a 60# Savannah just listed in the classifieds for $325.00....If it's too heavy...sell it and get your money back.

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=023201

10# is a pretty good jump, but easily doable if you're shooting your current one easily.

Mike

QuoteOriginally posted by RAW HIDE:
Hey Josh,

There's a 60# Savannah just listed in the classifieds for $325.00....If it's too heavy...sell it and get your money back.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=023201  

10# is a pretty good jump, but easily doable if you're shooting your current one easily.

Mike

Thanks for the link...I'm going to take a look.  I think the more I concentrate on form the more I realize how the poundage affects me.  Short drawing, easing forward just before the release...not focusing.  I really see the difference when I shoot my Kota at 46#...it is exactly that poundage at 29.5".  I'd love to see what my Savannah actually is drawn to 29.5"...going to need to get it to someone that has a drawing board to see.

Josh

I'll probly catch some flak from the "whompum-stompum" crowd LOL,but WHY do you feel you need more weight?????

#1) Your Savannah is already paid for

#2) If your drawing 29 1/2" your already drawing more than 50#,your drawing low to mid 50's which is actualy about average for "traditional" bowhunters.

#3) Martin bows are "known" for being "overweight" i.e. they draw more than thier marked weight. If your bow is actualy drawing 54# -55# pounds at 28" you could actualy be draw 57# -58# which is MORE than enough for any North American big game.

My point is this.....This is not like the "compound game" where more weight X a super light arrow = a faster arrow + longer range.

With "traditional" equipment you shoot the appropriate weight arrows for your draw weight,(approx. 10grs. per pound) i.e. if you draw 50# you should shoot a 500-550gr. arrow.

My suggestion would be to keep your Savannah. then,if you ever decide you would like to get a "differant" bow.....You can also think about a "differant" draw weight.

Woodchucker - the voice of reason...  :notworthy:

Yep I agree with the Above....Why go to 60#
Keep what ya got and shoot it well....
   That bow and a well placed sharp Broadhead will Kill anything on the North American Soil....
   Use what ya got and make sure you have good arrow flight....

Josh, another thing to keep in mind is where we hunt...if your struggling a touch to draw 60# repeatly in the spring/summer try it after sitting in the cold winter all day with a bunch of clothes on. I suggest finding a poundage you can shoot all day comfortably and accurately..

Why not go to 60? when I got back into Recurves 8 or 10 years ago I bought a 57# bow. shot it a while and added a 66# bow. Before I went to Africa I ordered a 74# bow. Decided to try a longbow. Bought a 57 pounder. I liked it so I ordered a 70 pounder. A man can never own too many bows. My new 84# PSAV should be here in mid May.

My 2 cents: whenever that voice starts up inside your head urging you to go a little heavier, play a trick on it and go a little lighter instead.  Your body will thank you, your form will thank you, and your accuracy will thank you.  Unless you are going to Africa, a 60lb bow is superfluous.  JMHO, Paul.

I have two sets of limbs for my Martin Hatfield. 45# and 60#. No comparison between the two. The 60# is like lightning. Trajectory is flat out to 25 yard like my old compound. The 60 fires like a rocket. I like the 45# for everyday shooting and form work, but I really like the 60# for hunting.

QuoteOriginally posted by Diamond Paul:
My 2 cents: whenever that voice starts up inside your head urging you to go a little heavier, play a trick on it and go a little lighter instead.  Your body will thank you, your form will thank you, and your accuracy will thank you.  Unless you are going to Africa, a 60lb bow is superfluous.  JMHO, Paul.

O fine throw out a big word just to confuse us Texans

The only advantage I can see to more weight is it's easier to get a cleaner release.  This is more than out weighed by the disadvantages.  Most of which were already mentioned.  Drawing the bow when you have been sitting in the cold for hours is huge.  I like low poundage for many reasons' but one of my favorites is that I love to shoot.  I like to quit when I am mentally tired rather than physically.    :archer:

I like to shoot a variety of bows, and found that a couple of years ago when I first tried 60 pounds it seemed just out of reach. Okay, I said, give it a rest. I put a lot of time in with 45-50-55 pounders, and then bought an old 60 pound Howatt Hunter for the heck of it this Spring. (It pulls an honest 60 on my bow scale)

Surprise - it was comfortable to shoot this year, and when I shoot my 50+ pounders, they feel like target bows. If nothing else, the higher weight bows build your upper body bow strength to make your shooting of the midrange weight bows improve. They also have more zip.

Egads - does this mean I will eventually move up to a 65 pound training bow to improve my ease with the 60 pounder?

Everyone is different.
People who say you won't need more than 45-50 usually can't shoot a bow accurately with more weight.
For me, 65-70 at 29 is perfect. I can shoot high 70's without a problem and when I move down to my regular 67ish bow it feels so easy and smooth.
Plus I get much better penetration on game, which helps if you don't get the perfect release in a hunting situation.

Dave

I think I'm going to have to build a draw board to see exactly what I'm holding with at my draw...this would help with my decision.  As Woodchucker stated it may be heavier than I think...which is the way it feels compared to my Kota is.  Man is my Kota smooth and it does hold nice.

Either way I'm not going to get rid of my current Savannah...first new bow I bought in 10 years of any kind.  

The reason I wanted another Savannah that was heavier is I've been looking at several different custom bow and can't find one I like as well as my Savannah.  The grip just fits my hand...granted the Striker line is very nice.  Okay while I'm admitting things the Cari-bow's are very nice also, shot one of these this winter and WOW is all I can say...+ they are works of art.

I guess it was just one of those questions I wasn't sure of the answer.  I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew...again   :knothead:  .  The more people I meet in this traditional circle the more I learn...it's easier to ask questions ahead of time than it is to wonder after the fact.  I just think since I can shoot my Savannah well and I really like the bow I could get a heavier poundage bow and shot it the same, with practice of course.

Thanks again all,

Josh

I agree with the can't have too many bows idea.  I make all mine but its the same thing.  
I shoot relatively heavy bows and will do it all day.  Or I take out a lighter one just for fun.
It almost takes more concentration with the lighter bows. It seems so light it throws me off of my game and I have to bring my mind back to the center.  Sort of teaching the mind to avoid interferences and just shoot the arrow.
Now, as to shooting the big bows, I not only shoot them quite a bit but finish the sessions often by pulling to a good full draw and holding for 10 to 30 seconds.  Or draw the bow for 3 or so sets of 20 times picking spots on flowers, trees, anything and really making the muscles work to prepare for the next time.
I works for me. I use 90 to 100 # bows and will shoot all day or shoot the 28 target course usually shooting 3 or 4 arrows per target.  Just having fun and shooting with my friends.

I also shoot all the bows I make at least a few times to make sure I like them.  Which means shooting 20# and up bows and its fun.

BigArcher

QuoteOriginally posted by BSBD:
Everyone is different.
People who say you won't need more than 45-50 usually can't shoot a bow accurately with more weight.
For me, 65-70 at 29 is perfect. I can shoot high 70's without a problem and when I move down to my regular 67ish bow it feels so easy and smooth.
Plus I get much better penetration on game, which helps if you don't get the perfect release in a hunting situation.

Dave

I agree 100%...Especially the "People who say you won't need more than 45-50 usually can't shoot a bow accurately with more weight." part.

Get you a 60# bow and practice with it...and see. Maybe you can be accurate with it...maybe you can't.

IMHO, I don't consider 60-65# heavy. Take this "40-50# is all you need" with a grain of salt. That maybe all some people need or can shoot...that's fine and I know dead is dead no matter the poundage, but if you WANT a 60# bow and have no problem with 60# and you're just as accurate with it as you are the lighter bow....more is always better, in hunting situations, if you're accurate, IMHO!

Mike

Thats where the takedowns shine. Having two sets of limbs is great. Never have to wish for more or wish for less.

I started at 48#s, my heaviest bow is 72#'s now. I love to shoot the heavy ones outdoors. I was always asking the trad guys I knew why I couldn't Accuratly hit out to 30 yards and I never really got an answer. Well the higher in #'s I went the easier those longer range targets were to hit. I love being able to shoot long range, I will probly never shoot an animal at long range but love to launch arrows down the range and actually hit what I am looking at and it makes a big difference at least for me.

QuoteOriginally posted by chuck172:
Thats where the takedowns shine. Having two sets of limbs is great. Never have to wish for more or wish for less.

This is part of the reason I wanted another Savannah...just heavier.  I shoot my #50 well and I feel the same bow with a heavier weight would be great, about the same as having multiple limbs for a takedown.  

I have found one or two other bow that I like...Cari-bow and strikers.  Both of these are great bows.  The Silver Fox is my dream bow, several great examples have been shown here and I drool every time.  The other is a Striker Takedown longbow, this bow impressed me and Rick was very nice to talk to at the Kzoo show.

So many options...

Josh

Josh, "I'm not a speed nut and pride myself on accuracy..."

If this is so let me ask one question....Would you get better shooting 20 arrows a day or 100? Getting a 40# instead of a 60# would do that for you. Besides the draw weight has nothing to do with "speed", arrow weight does...O.L.

I think I'm reading from these posts that you should get a 40#er for form practice, and a 60#er for punch!  :smileystooges:  Try to get that past your wife. I've gotta a gatekeeper too. LOL

Just picked up a 85# Schafer today!! We will see how that goes!!!

I'm not sure why many people think 40-50lb bows don't have enough "punch."  Josh, if you want a heavier bow, by all means, get one.  You may be physically strong and 60lbs may not be hard for you to shoot accurately at all.  But don't believe it when people tell you that bows of this class are necessary or even needed for the kind of hunting most people do.  I used to think that I needed that kind of weight, too.  I shoot much better (and I shot pretty well, then) now than I ever did with my 63lb bow, and can do it longer, and more often.  A deer will not know that he is any deader if you shoot him with the heavier bow.  JMHO, Paul.

Get the bow because its what you want. If you can justify the price.  Always got to do that.
Then shoot it and have fun.
50#'s is the legal minimum for the Big animals in most states.  And my daughter shoots her 50#der just fine and I would never push her to shoot higher than legal.
I shoot higher poundage for the same reason I hike all the way to the top of a ridge when there probably aren't any animals there.  Or pedal my bike as fast as I do when I would be more comfortable riding slower.  
Or sand out every tool mark from a new bow.
Its just what I want to do.

So, pick a good reason and get the bow.  Like you need a back up for that trip your planning!

BigArcher

When I decided to take this seriously, I had an old Standard Hunter that was 50# @ 28". I just took it rabbit hunting when I was tired of cleaning rabbits. Then I decided to take it more seriously and bought 2 bows from a trade gang member. A 54# bow and a 62# bow. Which I pull another inch or so. From the minute I got them I could shoot the 62#er with no trouble. And I was shooting the 50#er very little. Now I'm shooting a 57# Couch recurve pulled to about 60# 80 to 100 arrows per session.
Your mileage may vary

QuoteOriginally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Josh, "I'm not a speed nut and pride myself on accuracy..."

If this is so let me ask one question....Would you get better shooting 20 arrows a day or 100? Getting a 40# instead of a 60# would do that for you. Besides the draw weight has nothing to do with "speed", arrow weight does...O.L.

O.L.  I shot compounds for 25 years so I am fully aware that arrow weight has a direct correlation with speed.  I also reload ammo and study ballistic tables so I also understand bullet weight and stored down range energy...KE.  When I shot compounds I could literally shoot 200 arrows a day without feeling the affect...didn't mean I did it all the time but I could.  I'd rather shoot 50 well-placed arrows than 200 decently placed arrows.  I'd rather tweak a rifle bullet that shoots slower to get a 5 shot group at 100 yards that measures .350 CTC than one that shoots faster but groups .750" and I've done it.  Speed isn't everything...accuracy is key.  Deer are just as dead with a bullet traveling 2400 fps as they are with a bullet traveling 3300 fps but there is a large difference in KE and if a bad placement or tuff angled shot should arise the extra KE will be appreciated.  A heavy arrow at a greater speed has the same affect if you can place that arrow where it needs to go.

I do pride myself on accuracy, both with a bow and with a gun, it just something I take very seriously.  I have tinkered with bullets, powder, primers and seating depths of bullets to .001".  

With that said hunting situations don't always happen like you want and last year I passed on situations that I wouldn't have with a compound...slightly quartering too me was a definite no.  I was looking for a perfect broadside or quartering away shot and even with a heavier longbow the above would be the same, just not worth the risk.  

I guess my original question was asked to see if it was too soon to jump up in weight, kind of like when a new rifle shooter wants to buy a 300 Win Mag and I explain a 308 Winchester would be a better choice.  Why they always ask...the Mag is faster, I always say go to the range and shot them both 100 times and come back to tell me what they liked/shot better.

I may not like the higher weight but then again I might.  I'll never win a strongman contest but I can hold my own in most situations.  

It's sad the several people have PM'd me to get the heavier bow because they didn't want to post it on the thread and get flamed; I thought this site was above that.  Thanks to all that did.

In the end people will do what they want and I may get the bow, but I wanted to know if the weight would be too much.  I haven't found that elusive money tree so people knowledge is priceless and I respect not only yours but all.

I guess I'll have to go try several and see it I can handle one for 50 shots and see how it goes.  

Thanks for all the help...everyone!!

Josh

I think as we get older and wiser, we also get physically weaker. The old bull, young bull senario. It's sometimes hard to accept the fact that we are not the speciman of manhood we use to be. Encouraging someone to go up in weight might make that hit home.
Personaly, I have dropped my bow weights over the years also. Partly because  being older and wiser, I understand that with the equipment available today it's not absolutely necesary to shoot haevy bows. Partly because of my real life hunting experience, and partly because my shoulders aren't what they used to be.
But it easier to accept and pass on the ,"less is more" idea than the fact that we're getting older, and weaker, but wiser.
For some of us, we shoot heavy bows for the same reason men climb mountains. Because they're there, and because we want to while we still can.

I agree with BUFF about never too many bows but the #age thing can be come an issue. I shot 70-90# bows for quite a few years. I am now shooting 50-55#s, why? My shoulders are shot from a fall and this is comfortable for me. I think a 10# jump is a lot all at once but just like your 50#er ya can work your way into it. Shawn

Like Shawn, I think a 10# jump is very dramatic.  It will affect your accuracy, you should work up in smaller increments.  Also, your initial post was that you were comfortable shooting 15 to 18 yards.  Now, everyone's hunting range is different in the distance at which they feel comfortable shooting an animal.  I would suggest that you decide that range and when you can accurately put 90% of your arrows in the kill at 10 yds.   beyond  your comfort range, you are ready to step up the poundage. The reason for this is that under hunting conditions that 15 yd. shot in the backyard is very different from the hunting shot when you are cold, fatigued, excited, etc. If you can make that shot in the backyard at 25 yards, then the 15 yard shot is that much easier under hunting conditions.

If you do decide to purchase the bow and go up in weight just work into it at a rate you're comfortable with. When I started shooting I went from 45# to 50# to 65#. I would warm up with the 50# bow and then shoot the 65# until I felt like I wasn't in complete control of the shot. At first it was 10-15 shots. After a few weeks double that and within a month I was only shooting the 65#. The important thing when training into a heavier bow is to go slow and keep the focus on form. Once you get conditioned to handle an increase in draw weight the accuracy will be there.

Personally, I feel if an archer can handle an increase in weight without a degredation in accuracy there is no downside. Many guys will argue that a lighter bow can be shot more accurately and the heavier bow is not needed. But with hunting you may direct the arrow exactly to the spot you were aiming at but unforseen circumstances can affect the hit (animal moves, wind, hit a twig, etc). Thats where a little extra energy may give you a better result.
Chris