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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 11:50:52 AM

Title: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 11:50:52 AM
After a little more clean up getting ready to low brace this bow but I pin knocked this bow to gain maximum length so while tillering I tested push/pulling manualy & there is no way with this much reflex I have the steam to get any where near brace with it but after tiller it would be a non issue , so my dilema is do I cut my pins long enough to accept a stringer and lose length or any body got any ideas ?

Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2019, 12:31:01 PM
My opinion is..

    If it's too heavy to brace up now, you don't wanna brace it up yet.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Pat B on December 14, 2019, 12:35:49 PM
I agree with Roy.
 How long is the bow?
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 12:44:29 PM
This one is 65" ntn but Im going to tiller to 30 1/2 " well Im going to guess Im only 50-55 lb but cant get the leverage to get to brace if I lighten it up to where I can brace it by hand now Im guaranteed to miss my wait but if I can get it braced & tillered to 24"  or so then it will be easy to get braced just intial brace is the issue ! My other option is to build a bracing board but kinda a lot of work to make right now !
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2019, 12:49:19 PM
I don't buy that.

Tall long draw guy can't string a 55 pound bow?

I'm betting it's way more than 55 pounds.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 01:00:04 PM
You would lose that one Roy I took a bad fall about 2 weeks ago so I havent got my back ,back  up and running yet  I lock out when I try to brace it probably the easiest thing would be to lengthen my pins , next time I think I will title my thread , do you think my bow is to heavy to brace & might get some bracing options  :laughing:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2019, 01:26:43 PM
Ya didn't say ya was hurt.

Set it aside till ya mend up.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Pat B on December 14, 2019, 02:43:18 PM
Again I agree with Roy. Who woulda thunk!  :o
If you're hurting nothing good will come from trying to brace the bow. One of you will break or get badly bent.   :nono: Go to the corner of shame and recover one of those oldies you put away and give it another try while you heal.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 03:56:43 PM
Thanks fellas Im ok just still sore some times better to work threw it I got a double exspreso & got it to brace in fact tillered out to 27" one limb is still a bit stiff but might be the bottom not taking much set using the no set tiller method Im suprised usauly start geting some at 24"' Im babing it the rest of the way and holding off on the fades tell closer to full draw !

Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2019, 04:26:31 PM
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

So what's the no set tiller method?
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Pat B on December 14, 2019, 04:50:05 PM
I think you could take a few scrapes off the mid limb area of the right limb but it's looking pretty good otherwise.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 14, 2019, 06:03:57 PM
Yep pat I'm going to bring it around tomorrow that's the bottom limb ,Roy the no set method is nothing more then say you tiller to 20" at 36 lb and then you stretch the bow out to 25" at 45lb and come back to 20" and say the weight drop to 34lb then you would know your taking set & correct it, and so on and so forth at different lengths all the way out to full draw , I know I suck at explaining it there is a thread floating around the net on it but it's a good way to baby the bow to tiller !
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 15, 2019, 07:29:23 AM
Just a follow up note now that some of the reflex has tillered out , its a lot easier to brace even with my sore back , but these reflexed Molly type bows are really stiff for the first brace with the short working limb 20 1/2" , I really hate using the word Molly because it implys limb leaver percentages & I dont use static tip because they do bend some , Im also paying attention to over all mass on this bow key to getting good performance , glad to see Roy learning new stuff  :laughing:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 15, 2019, 07:58:40 AM
Static tip. A lot of the last sentence here to  :bigsmyl: So if its bending it aint static.   :dunno:
stat·ic
/ˈstadik/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
lacking in movement, action, or change, especially in a way viewed as undesirable or unintended
crackling or hissing noises on a telephone, radio, or other telecommunications system.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 15, 2019, 08:37:27 AM
Mike a very comon term for wood bows like this that are termed by some as static tiped bows in my post I was not going to refrence this as a static tip as I plan to have them flex some thats why I just call them leaver bows so it doesn't infer confusion I guess it didnt work :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 15, 2019, 02:42:12 PM
We need a pot stirring emoji not that I would ever use  :bigsmyl: it.
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 15, 2019, 02:52:59 PM
Roy would burn it out if we had it  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Well got this one to 31"@50lb sorry for the reflective light poor pics but hard to pull and take pics brought it in 5 lb heavy for side tiller clean up its holding 2" reflex after immediately un stringing it took some minor set about about 6" out of  the fades which is typical for 31" draw on my bows ,I was going to retreat the profile but its pretty smooth so Im leaving as is also should be able to get this one close to center shot ! I will get the wife to take a FD with out the reflective light when she gets home from work. The left limb is the top with positive tiller

Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Mad Max on December 21, 2019, 09:11:12 AM
It really looks awesome :thumbsup: :bigsmyl: :archer2:
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 09:28:24 AM
Thanks Maxi Im happy as heck holding 2" on this short of bow at my draw Im marrying the string for a couple hours and finessing the tiller yet !
Title: Re: Any body ready to brace this question ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2019, 10:35:07 AM
Looks very nice, Ritchie...
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Buemaker on December 21, 2019, 12:25:30 PM
Looking good. 31 inch, that Osage is some tough wood. :)
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2019, 01:43:14 PM
I've built two bows for fujimo out of osage with a 31.5 inch draw. Pulled them to 32 inches on the tree. Talk about being puckerd.... LOL
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 02:29:40 PM
Im almost to 32" now calling it quits for the day , eyes are shot ! Right is top limb

Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
Still holding 2" of reflex at 31.5 "

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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 04:43:41 PM
I did a bit more, still side tillering I think I'm close ,tillered out to 32" What do yo guys think ?? Right limb is top ,positive tillered !

Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: silent sniper on December 21, 2019, 05:27:24 PM
Looks great to me! Awesome work!
-Taylor
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 05:31:09 PM
Thanks for the help more eye's the better after tillering all day !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on December 21, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
Mid limb on the right limb looks a bit stiff. Also if the right limb is the top the fulcrum should be either centered on the handle or slightly to the right of center.
Other than that it looks good. Well done.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 07:49:27 PM
Thanks Pat the center of the bow is actualy at the fulcrum the handle was made that way with a short handle off center & the limb is 3/16" positive tiller so I would have enought room for the arrow shelf to not be in the fades I squeezed all the length I could out of this one, I will take a look at the right limb tomorrow gave up for the night and I'm getting close to draw weight ! Thanks !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2019, 08:33:13 PM
Right limb has flat spot.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 08:39:45 PM
Oh oh it's the season for flat spots going on around here lately  :laugh:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 21, 2019, 08:59:56 PM
Here is a closer look I see that little flat spot just about dead mid limb I will take a couple scrapes tomorrow thanks !

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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on December 21, 2019, 10:38:44 PM
Have someone take a pic of you drawing the bow to full draw. A tiller tree is static but your hand isn't. There could be a completely different pic with you drawing the bow.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 22, 2019, 05:04:06 AM
I agree I just have to catch up with my wife we pass in the night most weeks work schedules, I guess I could start a thread on this subject (bow tiller pics) but for my self taking pictures with a phone alone can be deceptive shadows ,lens angles, undulations in the limbs , shacky hand while pulling one handed all give false reads in the pic ,I'm not making excuses for my mediocre tiller skills...lol but I have found video some what more reliable to observe that and the unbraced profile tells better , also I move the handle towards the arrow side some too like you said & I have a sadle for the string that simulates 3 fingers & to complicate matters with bows that have heavy early draw change one limb and it's expotentinialy effects the other , also if I'm not showing any abnormalitys in the unbraced profile I shoot the bow in with 300 arrows before final final tiller , If any body's interested PM me your email & I can send only about 8 second clip of the tiller but you see much more with a video !

Here is a close up of the limb in question



Ok got the wife to take one before work



Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 22, 2019, 06:10:54 AM
Looks to be bending really good. And you must like it with your little Pinky sticking out there .  :laughing: :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 22, 2019, 06:29:40 AM
Thanks Thats a coaded message for Roy He knows what it means  :laughing:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 22, 2019, 06:35:19 AM
Ok got the wife to take one before work:)

Good job big dog..
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 22, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Hmmm not the finger I would have used for Roy  :laughing:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Mad Max on December 22, 2019, 09:40:47 PM
looks really good ritchie :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on December 22, 2019, 11:42:06 PM
Looks good but I think you could do a few scrapes mid limb on the top limb.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 23, 2019, 05:06:05 AM
Thanks fellas I appreciate it Im verry happy with the reflex this one is holding I had friends that told me why waste the wood trying to get a 65" to hold a lot of reflex on a strait long bow  at my draw & now 1 owes me a Red lobster dinner on a bet  :cheesy:  Pat If you look close on the mid/outers on the top limb the area was left taper flat so when I size the leavers & side tiller that area & losing the mass  I will get more flex ,its critical on this type bow in that area not to over do it as you will lose a lot of performance do to string angle the botom one is just about there but will change sesaw when I do the top hence being heavy on target draw weight ! I shoot it in and tiller it as I go maintainig the positive tiller the outer third does little work on this design and takes no set as in the unstrung profile doing it that way  Pat I think you will like the profile when I post when done ! I did another one of these a 68" in the same way at the (pic)at the  same point in tiller & its still holding tiller & really one of the best performing self bows I have made 3k arrows latter !

Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 23, 2019, 06:32:04 AM
Nice job, Ritchie.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 23, 2019, 08:37:52 AM
I does look good. explain the fat tip.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 23, 2019, 09:11:24 AM
I will try Mike but not reall good a exsplaining but with this type design in wood bows its claim to fame is lighter mass outers & superior string angle on the current one its only 20 1/2 working limb the rest being handle/fades & leavers complicated by my long draw with wood its easy to take set in the wrong areas , but by keeping the outers thick in taper I can side tiller the front veiew lowering mass in that area & get proper bend with out whip tillering as I narrow the leavers  & destroying the string angle keeping the outer mass as light as possible lighterr mass outers is expotential gains with wood bows vs glass
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on December 23, 2019, 10:36:56 AM
Mike, like with an I beam the thicker, narrower outer limbs are stronger but with less physical weight.
 Richie, I'd say it's time to shoot the heck out of it them look at it again.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 23, 2019, 11:02:33 AM
Yep Ibeam & Eiffel tower shape too but also the limb fade transition I need to carve the handle & make a string yet & get 300 arrows break in and recheck tiller but this hedge is stuburn bet it stays put also need to heat treat the leavers before shooting just bent with steam I think I will end up pretty close to center shot to ,I never cut shelfs on self bows just knuckle shooting !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Buemaker on December 23, 2019, 11:19:54 AM
You did a great job on this one. :)
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 23, 2019, 05:13:00 PM
Thanks Bue means a lot to me Bro !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 24, 2019, 09:37:03 PM
Just as a side note this peace osage was really solid dense osage took a lot of scrapes &  exsersise to get any change ,I looked back threw my records & this one was one I got from Clint ,Scrub buster out of Ind a few years back !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Mad Max on December 24, 2019, 10:08:21 PM
Clint has some good ones
I have about 5 of them :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 24, 2019, 10:18:13 PM
Yep I have a bunch here too I think both of those bows in this thread where made from his staves , some of the osage I cut here in Il is good dense wood nice red color to it too ,but some off the osage I have gotten out of Mo. isn't as dense , but even poor osage is good wood , we could start another thread on osage quality & seasoning  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on December 25, 2019, 03:07:39 PM
I've been getting wood from Clint for years. Unfortunately he's getting out of wood cutting...at least that is what he says now.  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 30, 2019, 11:26:12 AM
I have been laying out my handle with all the lateral adjustments Im still off a bit to the arrow side it looks like I should end up about 3/16 past center it will be interesting to see how it shoots like that , thats the farthest of center on a self bow that I have done ! Trying to get this one shooting new years day !

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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Buemaker on December 30, 2019, 12:07:59 PM
Pip Bickerstaffe of Bickerstaffe Bows, one of England’s top bowyers, makes mostly laminated ELB’s. He usually adjusts his bows so the string is a bit offset, he say they are more centershot. He is the author of several books.
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 30, 2019, 12:15:38 PM
Well the good thing about this off set its mostly off in the center the limbs and tips are fairly centered ,I have a friend that looks for staves off like that for the same purpose ,Im hoping it will help with arrow spine its tuff with long draws & wood arrows to get the spine right and still be 10 gpp !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 01, 2020, 11:04:07 AM
Well I guess this is the first bow of the year for me sense I shot it for the firs time today ,I think this one is going to be my most peppy self bow to date feels like your shooting a glass bow , I started tapering the tips still going to eiffel tower & lighteen the tips but boosted them out for a bit more reflex ,Im ending up center shot on this one & I can  really tell the differense using diferent spined arrows !

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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 01, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
Tell me you do not shoot that arrow................
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 01, 2020, 11:37:13 AM
I only want to shoot that arrow that way when I pay my taxes every year  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on February 01, 2020, 12:47:43 PM
I never maid it as a late season hunt or much work on this one, do to work but got a chance to do a bit more today & shoot about 80 arrows ,I got the tips almost to thin as the started to flex as in the first FD pic 1 & a trip to the caul & heat solved the problem FD pic 2 , sure like the way this one shoots so far mass is 20.21 Oz hoping to get closer to 19 Oz still a lot of sanding and clean up
Yet !

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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on February 01, 2020, 12:48:38 PM
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Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Flem on February 01, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
Nice profile Ritchie :thumbsup: (the bow)
I'll bet it's pretty zippy
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Forwardhandle on February 01, 2020, 01:43:31 PM
Glad you clarified that Flem thought you where commenting on my girlish figure....lol  yes its zippy for sure I want to get another 200 arrows threw it before chrony instead of cheat fresh numbers !
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Pat B on February 01, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
Very nice bend. Well done!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Exsperment on a short Osage leaver bow !
Post by: Buemaker on February 01, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Bending nicely, very good.