Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: anchorman on November 21, 2019, 09:51:43 PM
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I've been shooting carbon shafts for awhile now but have got the urge to shoot woods. I know nothing about getting the right spine or anything. Right now I'm shooting 48lb recurve at my draw length. With my 27 inch draw length and 48 lbs cut past center using 135 grn points where do I start..looking at charts I get kinda confused...thanks
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Hi Anchorman,
This kind of question is dealt with in PowWow. Probably the moderators will transfer your post over there, so look in PowWow for your answers.
Good luck!
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Give Terry at The Footed Shaft (Or any of the other sponsors) a call, he will walk you through the process and get you set up.
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I'm far from an 'expert', but I've built my share of woodies regardless.
Start HERE:
https://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdf
Use the wood shaft chart at the bottom.
Cut past center, with 27" DL, 135gr points and 48#, I would say 55-60 should be a good place to start. (I'm assuming you would be shooting a 29" arrow) You might try calling 3Rivers and talking to one of the pros there.
Feel free to PM if you have more questions.
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X2 on taking to terry. And I wouldn't consider myself an expert but For a 48 pound bow with 27 inch draw and 135 up front I would start with a 50/55 shaft. That said depends on arrow material and shelf which you say is past center so 55/60 may work fine also. In all reality a lot of things come into play. Additionally you may consider because every bow is different getting a test pack. Usually you can get them for cedars and for the surewood shafts. I'd get a test pack of 50/55 and 55/60 and 60/65 (would probably allow you to play with heavier points) for your current point weight. Good news is wood arrows I find to be forgiving and based on arrow length and point weight have been able to get multiple spine groups to shoot well out of the same bow. I just got a new bow also and what I did was took the draw weight which was 52lbs at 26 inches and went one weight group up 55/60 and they are perfect. I am using a 160 grain head. Experiment and have fun. Best things about woods are that you can customize them how you like fancy or simple, much cheaper so you wont feel too bad about breaking them, dont usually have to worry about weight issues with the shafts, and my favorite the way they feel and sound when shooting. That thump is unlike anything in the carbon world. Absolutely love it.
Best of luck!
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Kirk is being modest. His wood arrows are a thing of beauty.
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The test "kit" is a great way to get started, and remember if the arrow is a bit weak you can always build out the strike plate. Not so if it's too stiff.
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I like the test kit idea. It will save you a couple hundred bucks in the long run.
I mean ball park for you though would be 45-50 since you're basically shooting a 45 pound bow with that draw length. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for you to be able to shoot 40-45's too since you're right on the line at 45 pounds. But with it being center shot, it should run a little heavy if it differs from the recommended spine at all, so you have to account for that: I would say you should test 40-45, 45-50, 50-55, and 55-60. One of those should do it.
Are you using a fast flight string? I'd replace the 40-45's with 60-65's in the test kit, if so.
I'm also assuming you'll leave your arrows at 28" bop.
Man, you really want to be sure of your draw length though...could lead to a lot of frustration otherwise. I can attest.
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Another vote for the test kit. Well worth it in the long run.
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Personally, I use a general rule of 10 lbs over bow weight for 28-29" arrows. It works for me up to 160 grain broadheads.
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Personally, I use a general rule of 10 lbs over bow weight for 28-29" arrows. It works for me up to 160 grain broadheads.
Works for me too. In my experience with wood arrows a little stiff shoots a lot better than too weak of shafts.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
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I am not and wood arrow expert you will learn a lot here on Trad gang.
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I also shoot tapered which I think allows a bit stiffer arrow. Next batch is tapered Maple. (800+ grains)
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Give Steve at Surewood Shafts a call, they offer a test kit also, super great guys to deal with.
Jason
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No expert here either, but shooting and assembling wood arrows exclusively for several years, and into it; and shooting comparable weight bows.... I'll 2nd 55/60's, as Captain Kirk suggested. That's taking into account your draw length, cut past center, and a 28" BOP arrow length. With FF string, and the 135 points. This also agrees with the 10# over bow weight suggestions... in your case. For a bow less center cut, maybe not.
Test kit is,no doubt, a good idea. I also think that with enough feedback here, you'd do OK with a set of what is determined to be closest, and fine tune bow and/or arrow as necessary (arrow length, point weight, strike plate thickness, brace height...).
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I appreciate all the info and I'm not surprised that everyone came.thru...it gives me a starting point .do you all shoot tapered shafts or parrallel or is there much difference...thanks again
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Parallel for me. 11/32 bear paw spruce shafts from kustom king
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I am by no stretch an expert, but what works for me after a few years of "experimenting". Tapered here, and I think it allows a stiffer arrow, plus flight smooths out quicker out of the bow. Tapered @8-10" to 5/16.
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Parallel for me most of the time. Tried tapered, and I couldn't see the difference in flight, though the theories make sense. What I do like is the fact that tapering wood shafts, I can end up with a lighter arrow (lighter by 20-25 grains or so)... closer to the 10-10.5GPP which I prefer. Woodies are hard to get to that weight for me, with 125-135p up front.
You can run a stiffer spine because the tapering lightens dynamic spine by a couple pounds.Increased spine also means a heavier shaft-usually- up to you if that's a good thing or not.
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What I do like is the fact that tapering wood shafts, I can end up with a lighter arrow (lighter by 20-25 grains or so)... You can run a stiffer spine because the tapering lightens dynamic spine by a couple pounds. Increased spine also means a heavier shaft-usually- up to you if that's a good thing or not.
My tapered shafts are spined were I want them and I run 160-190 grains up front. Guess I figured out the high FOC with woodies. Plus, with Maple I need to trim a few grains of weight. Run @12.5 gpp from 64-66# bows. Fly straight and hit with a thump!
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I run parallel shafts, 11/32 cedar. Cedar is not the toughest out there, but it's probably the easiest to work (tapers, etc), easiest to straighten, and most importantly, it smells the best.
If you're just getting started I would recommend at least your first batch be cedar. It's probably the most forgiving.
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I would recommend that you contact one of the arrow makers listed here that support the site. They need your bow spec. Draw length, draw weight, bow length, string info, centershot, tip weight, etc
The newest Stu Miller calculator does a good job as it takes into account a lot of info that the 3Rivers formula does not.
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Ok a update..I found 3 55/60 cedars I cut them 29 1/4 up to 29 3/4 145 grain points on them. They all shot horribly nock left and hitting somewhere between 8 - 10" right. I'm shooting a black widow with d97 string bows are 48lbs at 27" draw. My draw is 26 3/4 to 27. With carbons I shoot a 500 spine arrow with 175 point and have no issues fly great and hit same as fletched arrows. I would like to use woods but as bad as they flew I'm not sure which way to go in getting some tuned right. Any help would be appreciated..thanks
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Again, not an expert. Contact the arrow builders on this site. Personally, I would use 60-65# spine with your set-up. :archer2: :campfire:
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Reason those 55-60’s flew so bad is because at the length you shot them at you were drastically under spined.
You need to figure spine based on finished arrow length, which a wood shaft is actually one inch longer than the bop arrow length to allow for installation of point. So effectively your 29.25” to 29.75” bop arrows were actually 30.25” and 30.75” long shaftwise. So those 55-60’s were now 40-45’s. Plus using a Black Widow and fastflite string you needed to add 15# spine just for that, a high performance recurve.
48# plus 15# for high performance recurve, plus 5# per inch over 28”(personally don’t know why you want arrows 3-4” longer than your draw) so add another 15-20# spine. That brings you to 75 or 80# spine.
If I would have been building you arrows I would have suggested 28” bop length, maybe 28.5” if you had a good reason for it and I would have used 70-74# spined shafting, which is about the same as those 500 carbons. And I have built lots of wood arrows for Black Widow shooters when I owned Arrows by Kelly.
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At least you only got 3 shafts their and not a dozen.
If you could shorten those with a taper tool to just above your 27 inch draw which would make them still usable.You would see better results.A taper tool is something handy to have if you shoot woodies.Reducing them by 2 inches is gonna stiffen them up a bit.If you mount a 2 blade head horizontal you can shoot a shorter shaft than mounted vertical.
If their still too weak go up in spine.
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Kelly;
I forgot about FF string so my guestimate is probably 5# low.
:coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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I shoot 47#@28” with 160 g up front and it shoots 60# spine great. I would say your setup should be 55-60.
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Kelly your info is good it runs true with where ive gotten with trial and error. is there a printed or web based formula I could use to make the learnining curve better? a few years ago on here o.l addock and dr Ashby did the perfect arrow it was a lot of info on carbons the interesting thing was they mentioned they had wood arrow suggestions and if theyre wood arrow info is out there WOW! anyone remember this?
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A good chart will give you a good starting point but when you actually start shooting, it will be a might different. You may still need to shorten the shaft or fiddle with point weight. I like to err on the stiff side and add a bigger point to get it to straighten out. :thumbsup:
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I was thinking cut 55/60's to 28" BOP; at 29"+ go up at lest 1 spine group (or cut the arrow 1"shorter) and/or try a slightly lighter point. Kelly has multitudes more experience; I'd consider his feedback in the equation.
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Kelly's website - arrowskp.com - has some simple and solid descriptions and charts.
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thank you
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I've tried cutting 60/65 down to 28 still showing little weak so I have some 70/75 and 65/70 test shafts coming just didn't realize that it would take that heavy if a spine..but took Kelly's advice along with others and going to give these a whirl pretty sure this is going to take care of it..thanks
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Call me crazy but I like my wood arrows a tad weak. Let us know how it goes.
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If your bow has a Fast Flight string go with 55-60 spine if not go with 50-55 spine
I would suspect both will fly just fine. A side note a smooth release means a lot when testing different spines FYI Good Luck!