Post by: Petrichor on November 18, 2019, 02:02:25 PM
Post by: Mad Max on November 18, 2019, 02:07:52 PM
Quote-------Get it to low brace and see how it looks. The twist will not hurt the bow in that stave. Once you get it to brace, under tension, you will be able to better see the twist and where it is.
Like I said before you can tiller out twist too. It is at full draw where you see good tiller, not in a relaxed stave. By removing wood from the strong side of each limb as the bow is drawn when you hit full draw the twist can be eliminated even though it is still there when relaxed.
Post by: Petrichor on November 18, 2019, 02:16:59 PM
Pat knows what he's saying.good deal I am planning on doing that for the twist. What about the lateral bend should this wait till after low brace to fix?
Quote-------Get it to low brace and see how it looks. The twist will not hurt the bow in that stave. Once you get it to brace, under tension, you will be able to better see the twist and where it is.
Like I said before you can tiller out twist too. It is at full draw where you see good tiller, not in a relaxed stave. By removing wood from the strong side of each limb as the bow is drawn when you hit full draw the twist can be eliminated even though it is still there when relaxed.
Post by: Pat B on November 18, 2019, 04:55:56 PM
Once the bow is braced you will be able to see better where you'll need to make any heat adjustments.
Post by: Petrichor on November 18, 2019, 05:00:43 PM
If the string tracks along the handle the bow will shoot. You can also line up the string by removing wood from one side or the other at the handle and at the tips. That's why I leave the handle area and the tips untouched until the tiller is at brace at least. You don't need finished handle or limb tips to tiller a bow. Leave them both wide for adjustment sake.
Once the bow is braced you will be able to see better where you'll need to make any heat adjustments.
Sounds good. I think I have a bit more wood to take off belly before i can get to low brace. Right now i do not even have temp nocks in. Do you use some sort of tillering string or stringer that does not require these?
Post by: Mad Max on November 18, 2019, 05:57:58 PM
Just down the sides, not on the belly
Post by: Pat B on November 18, 2019, 10:35:38 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 19, 2019, 09:15:40 AM
You can heat the fade and one end of the handle, put the limb out from the fade in your vise and give it a sideways tweak, pull it out of your vise and check your progress, heat and repeat as necessary. When you have it where it needs to be let it cool and you are good to go. You can do the same maneuver anywhere up and down the limb as well.
Post by: Petrichor on November 19, 2019, 11:47:42 AM
When I encounter a slight problem like yours I bend the handle 100% of the time and don't do wood removal. A 1/16" bend in the handle will move the tips an inch or so, I use dry heat.Interesting
You can heat the fade and one end of the handle, put the limb out from the fade in your vise and give it a sideways tweak, pull it out of your vise and check your progress, heat and repeat as necessary. When you have it where it needs to be let it cool and you are good to go. You can do the same maneuver anywhere up and down the limb as well.
Post by: Mad Max on November 19, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XyJ14yeEnI&list=PLppaQNRtgb4u14fpFHoVl1ZKtBVZF3nJs&index=2
Post by: Petrichor on November 19, 2019, 04:07:59 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 19, 2019, 04:12:01 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 19, 2019, 04:57:18 PM
Post by: Mad Max on November 19, 2019, 05:15:28 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 19, 2019, 05:29:39 PM
Post by: Mad Max on November 19, 2019, 05:58:15 PM
good stuff
Post by: Petrichor on November 19, 2019, 06:00:10 PM
petrichor watch those youtubes, I think there are four of them on that bow.
good stuff
Yes sir. I have watched them. Though I did talk to clay through messages and he uses dry heat exclusively now.
Post by: Captain*Kirk on November 19, 2019, 08:19:28 PM
Post by: Possum Head on November 19, 2019, 08:52:06 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 20, 2019, 10:18:21 AM
You need to make a tillering gizmo and straighten out the flat places in your limbs.
I had a how to make one and use it tutorial to here but got banned one time and it was deleted. I have another over at the primitive archer site in the how to section that is still up.
Pretty simple, a 6" block of wood with a 5/16 hole drilled in the middle and a 1/2" hole drilled halfway through the block on top of the 5/16" hole. Knock a 5/16 nut down in the bottom of the 1/2" hole and screw a pencil in the nut.
Lets see if this works for a copy and paste the pictures probably won't be there.
USING THE TILLERING GIZMO
After floor tillering your bow, bend the bow slightly on your tillering tree or tillering stick, I start at about 3” of bend using the long string. Retract the pencil in the Gizmo and run the wood block up the bow’s belly and find the widest gap. Screw the pencil in the block to a point it is almost touching the bow’s belly at the point where you found the widest gap. It is best to start with a little wider gap between the pencil and limb than what is shown in the picture or you may mark the whole limb instead of just the highest spots. I change the angle the pencil has been sharpened to a very short angle and sand the tip of the pencil flat for the best results in marking the limb. This lets you work very slight bends.
Run the Gizmo up the belly making sure it is centered on the limb. The
pencil will mark non bending areas that need wood removed. Start on the long string; continue at brace and up to about 20” of draw. You do need to have a way to hold your bow string while you mark the limbs with the Gizmo.
(https://i.imgur.com/VwmLabC.jpg)
I have holes in my tillering tree and insert a 3” piece of dowel in one of the holes to hold the string with the limbs slightly bent while I mark the limbs with the gizmo.
(https://i.imgur.com/WvMREMM.jpg)
Go slow, no more than ten scrapes on the marked areas of the limb, flex the limb 30 times and recheck. My bow limbs tend to be slightly round belly so the Gizmo only marks the top of the crown on the limbs belly. I scrape the marked area as well as the rest of the limb side to side to keep things even. You can get the limb bending perfectly this way. You will still have to eyeball bending in the fades but the rest of the limb will be perfectly tillered, hinges will be a thing of the past.
I adjust the gizmo one time on the long string and set it to the deepest bend on the weakest limb. I use this setting for both limbs. If you continually adjust the gizmo you will chase weak spots up and down your limb. One adjustment and hold this adjustment until you have removed enough wood to the point that can run the gizmo up both limbs without making a mark. As you increase draw length readjust the gizmo.
Make a few passes with the gizmo on your limb and the areas that need attention will be perfectly obvious. You can fine tune the tillering by closing the gap between the pencil and limb to almost nothing. At this point I like to use a cheap orbital sander to remove both wood and any tool marks that are left. With course sand paper, the sander will leave tiny swirls in the wood so I like 220 grit for my final tillering work and follow with a light hand sanding.
The gizmo doesn’t work in the fade out area of the riser so you will have to eyeball the bend in this area or put a flat board across the back of the bow in your tillering tree and watch the gap between the back of the bow and the board to see where the limb is bending.
Tillering that once took me hours to get close takes me about 45 minutes with the Gizmo and the end result is close to perfect.
Remember the key thing to proper tillering is using a scraper or sand paper for SLOW wood removal, no rasps or belt sanders.
Here is Roy's;
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 20, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 01:11:08 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 20, 2019, 02:46:45 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 02:58:53 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 20, 2019, 03:09:23 PM
Post by: bucknut on November 20, 2019, 06:44:33 PM
John
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 06:56:50 PM
Post by: Pat B on November 20, 2019, 07:53:44 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 20, 2019, 08:09:48 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 09:35:45 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 09:38:52 PM
Post by: Mad Max on November 20, 2019, 10:23:56 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 20, 2019, 10:28:28 PM
Go to the Tennessee classic first weekend in may, just above Nashville and get 3 of 4 staves at a good price
Nice I was actually just looking at there site. 9ish hour drive for me so definitely not bad.
Post by: Mad Max on November 21, 2019, 07:49:06 AM
I would say 100 staves for sale.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 22, 2019, 08:23:53 AM
But you can try this method but have the stave on edge and a hook a wire around the tips.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/fixtwist.html
I usually leave nocks wide and handles full width until at least the final stringing so I can track the string better.
Staves with the string tracking way off like that are tough to tune for silent shooting because of string slap.
I usually turn bows like that around but you cannot because the handle is shaped.
Have fun.
Jawge
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 22, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
Post by: Petrichor on November 22, 2019, 12:12:59 PM
Petrichor, you have a gizmo headed your way, I mailed it yesterday. If you have any questions let me know.
Thank you sir! I will have to read your previous post a few more times but I will pm if I have any questions. Thanks again!!
Post by: Buemaker on November 22, 2019, 02:06:41 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 22, 2019, 03:07:01 PM
Post by: Petrichor on November 26, 2019, 11:01:15 PM
Talked to a bunch of self bow builders about my current stave and not only do they think I go ripped off they suggested that I set it aside (hard as I feel so close) until I am more experienced. One of them is sending me a stave for free to help me get going and I also might try the board bow move. Anyway hard to set something down once you get going but I find that "a man that heeds a life giving rebuke is at home among the wise" so I will set the crooked stave aside for a bit and anticipate the new stave a f will post progress.
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 26, 2019, 11:25:17 PM
Your stave is not that bad, it just needs heat correction. I have made bows out of much worse. Don't believe everything you're told here, lots of armchair quarterbacks.
Post by: Petrichor on November 26, 2019, 11:27:10 PM
Thanks.
Your stave is not that bad, it just needs heat correction. I have made bows out of much worse. Don't believe everything you're told here, lots of armchair quarterbacks.
Yeah! And what's the worse that can happen it breaks? When I have another stave enroute? Part of learning at least I'm having a good time.
Post by: Petrichor on November 27, 2019, 12:44:50 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 27, 2019, 04:25:32 AM
Post by: Mad Max on November 27, 2019, 08:37:32 AM
The tiller Gizmo works great.
Is there a good floor tiller youtube?
I think floor tiller is very important
Post by: Petrichor on November 27, 2019, 08:39:01 AM
I started out making Selfbows (Osage) and really struggled with it.
The tiller Gizmo works great.
Is there a good floor tiller youtube?
I think floor tiller is very important
Yep clay hayes has one
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 28, 2019, 08:11:04 AM
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Post by: Petrichor on November 28, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
Here is a way to adjust lateral bends with caul & clamps after steam straitening and well resting the stave you can use a caul shims & clamps, dry heat to do the last of the straiting , if your not adding reflex a simple 2 x 4 can be used !
So funny I was thinking about 2x4 last night!
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 28, 2019, 08:30:33 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 28, 2019, 10:19:56 AM
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Post by: Petrichor on November 28, 2019, 10:25:05 AM
Here is before and after steam & dry heat caul etc , in my case the bow will be highly reflexed so I need to be fairly centered but if your not adding reflex you could do like Eric sugested with the handle alignment there is a good chapter on that in TBB !
Havent decided on reflex yet. I guess that will depend on how straight I can get it.
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 28, 2019, 10:40:05 AM
Post by: Petrichor on November 28, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
Reflex can be touchy to tiller , do what ever you think is right but if it was me and it was my first bow I would just be happy to get a shooter , Im not saying that in a negetive way ,Im just saying the more performance oriented you make a bow glass or wood the higher chances of failure , ask me how I know that :biglaugh:
Exactly my thoughts. I am definitely gonna try and take the lateral bend out, twist out and then maybe the set out of one of the limbs. After that leaning towards just tillering. However I have also thought of doing nothing. Right now the bottom limb is going to the left and the top line is going to the right and the string crosses the center the handle kinda like some asymmetrical miracle. Though I don't know how long the bow would live with that left in there.
Post by: Pat B on November 28, 2019, 12:28:07 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 28, 2019, 02:18:18 PM