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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Bully on September 23, 2019, 03:28:18 PM
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Sorry folks, but I'm obsessed with the stuff.
I want to back my convoluted self-style bow with it. More for appearance than anything. I'm wondering if anyone has done anything similar and if so, what glue you used and how did it all work out.
I'm not going to use any of the resins specifically for CF as they will most likely be too brittle and wind up cracking on me.
My thought is to use either EA-40 or Titebond III on the back of the bow and lay the CF over it. Let it dry and then trim it. Almost like a modern skin.
Anyone have any thoughts?
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"my convoluted self-style bow" Are you talking Self bow, in that case I would not do it, and if so use EA-40.
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Bully-
Are you wanting real CF or just the CF "look"?
OkKeith
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I have a ribbon of CF on the way. My plan is to, when the blank is ready, glue it on similar to the way a skin or sinew is glued on. I realize it will be mostly for show. It WILL keep the bow from blowing up incase there is a failure, so that's good. It'll just be a fancy backing.
I have both EA40 and Titebond III floating around.
Bow will be a Hickory backed Ipe bow. In the style of a self-bow... kind of. :saywhat:
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Your Trippin'... :laughing:
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Sounds interesting, can't wait to see how it turns out. You might want to make sure the carbon is completely
encased in epoxy.
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Limbsations has a carbon look product.
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Faux Vinyl Carbon fiber tape is what you need (for looks).
Real carbon fiber is not going to work, but I would like to SEE what would happen the first time you draw it back.
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If you want something cool go to the fabric store and pick out a cotton print and do it with that... There is a lot that you are not taking into account...
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There is a lot that you are not taking into account...
Like...?
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Rich, do you put that over or under the glass? If it's over, what glue do you use?
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A hickory backed bow(not a selfbow) shouldn't need any other backing. Hickory makes a very strong backing and pairs up well with ipe. If a hickory backing blows up it is bad hickory. The only thing adding carbon fiber to the back will add is excess physical weight to the bow. If you want to pretty it up use snake skins, printed thin cloth(like Shedd suggests) or rawhide with artwork on it.
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Fuggers ole Shreddy would use a purty posey print..
:saywhat:
:wavey:
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If you want the black look, use black silk, or just electrical tape (!!!!). That carbon fiber won't work like you think it will..
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If you want the black look, use black silk, or just electrical tape (!!!!). That carbon fiber won't work like you think it will..
What does that mean?
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Bully-
I haven't messed with any of the woven carbon fiber material but does it stretch? Anything you put on the back of a bow needs to be able to stretch and then return in order for it to work. Correspondingly anything on the belly must compress and then return. There is a layer ("somewhere") in the middle of the bow stack that is neutral and neither stretches or compresses. The types of backing and belly materials determine where the neutral spot is and it is sometimes not right in the middle.
I think what the guys are eluding to is that a backing material that will not stretch will hamper the performance of the bow or might damage it because it moves the neutral layer too far away from center. Also, if it doesn't stretch when you draw the bow it might just pop off or be wrinkly.
If you are wanting the woven carbon look, take a look at this stuff: https://vvividshop.com/collections/carbon-fiber
I ordered and just received some adhesive backed VViVid vinyl in a desert camo that I will be applying to some limbs. I think it will work well.
OkKeith
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If you want the black look, use black silk, or just electrical tape (!!!!). That carbon fiber won't work like you think it will..
What does that mean?
Basically what Keith said... The carbon will more than likely crush the belly wood... Plus a few other things like some resins are good for wetting out fibers and some are better at adhesion... EA-40 is more an adhesive... When you use the wrong materials or wrong methods to achieve a certain goal you will be in for a surprise and more than likely it will not be good... Thats why no one is too supportive of your idea and giving you other options... They are just too nice to say that you are Trippin'... ;) Don't take my humor to heart... I blew up my first few bows using the wrong materials... We all been there... Good Luck to you...
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Fuggers ole Shreddy would use a purty posey print..
:saywhat:
:wavey:
Thats called Camo... :saywhat: Your just jealous... :)
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If you want the black look, use black silk, or just electrical tape (!!!!). That carbon fiber won't work like you think it will..
What does that mean?
Basically what Keith said... The carbon will more than likely crush the belly wood... Plus a few other things like some resins are good for wetting out fibers and some are better at adhesion... EA-40 is more an adhesive... When you use the wrong materials or wrong methods to achieve a certain goal you will be in for a surprise and more than likely it will not be good... Thats why no one is too supportive of your idea and giving you other options... They are just too nice to say that you are Trippin'... ;) Don't take my humor to heart... I blew up my first few bows using the wrong materials... We all been there... Good Luck to you...
I don't take it to heart. It's the internet. It's not all that.
However, I do thank you for your advice. I guess I gotta ask, if it won't work, then how do other guys make it work? Some of the bigger names are able to make CF work just fine. Real-deal woven stuff. Not pretend vinyl. I'm happy to figure out a way to put it under glass if necessary.
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I sent you a PM...
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I've never used or wanted to use carbon fiber in a bow because I've never needed it to build a bow. What is carbon fiber used for in a glass bow? I'd imagine limb stability but that's just a guess.
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As far as I know, carbon fiber is used between layers of wood laminate, not on an exterior surface.
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As far as I know, carbon fiber is used between layers of wood laminate, not on an exterior surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_eCzhrRvdQ
https://www.3riversarchery.com/tomahawk-bows-ss-supreme-longbow.html
http://www.tenbrookarchery.com/phenoliccarbon-fiber.html
A quick google search turned these up.
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So I think you should glue the tri-lam up with the carbon fiber ribbon backing and post some pictures along the way.
I think it's a good idea.
All talk is not going to solve this thread. :thumbsup:
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In general glass bow building what is carbon used for? What is it's purpose? I'm curious so that's why I'm asking.
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In general glass bow building what is carbon used for? What is it's purpose? I'm curious so that's why I'm asking.
CF has a lot of inherent features that make it an awesome material to use in many applications. It’s extremely lightweight and is rigid in multiple directions. In bow building it would potentially be used to reduce weight. Increase torsional stiffness, and decrease bulk.
In reality the benefits are probably too small to justify the expense of messing with it on any scale.
I simply like how it looks and it will be mostly window dressing. Because...? Why not? It’s an experiment and a “toy” for me.
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Like Fiber-glass, Carbon fiber is used as a back or interior lam. Typically it's under clear fiberglass, but not always. It's not as elastic as glass-fiber and like Kevlar fiber, it's more for rigid applications. For a linear application, like a bow back, unidirectional fibers are more efficient than the woven fabric, but don't look nearly as cool. I know unidirectional carbon fiber laminates are made, don't know if anybody makes one with a finished side that would be suitable for the back of a bow. The whole idea behind using carbon is that it's has a better strength to weight ratio than glass, so you can make a lighter bow. Although if you look at advertising, nobody is bragging about the weight of their carbon bows. Like Bully said, it's bling.
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Thanks for the info, guys. :thumbsup:
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If a hickory backing blows up it is bad hickory.
Yaaabuttt if the belly is compromised, like bad grain etc.... the backing will blow.
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The carbon fiber showed up last night. I've decided that I will put it under a layer of clear glass. I'll order that today or Monday.
I'm going to grab the hickory this morning. I will also look to build the form this weekend but no promises. I'm still not 100% on how I want my form to be; IE: do I want to do a rubber band wrap or a bondage wrap (rope and wedges). Once I figure that out, I'll get her going.
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Here is another option for pressing. Very efficient, not very popular.
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Guess it's ok...
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Here is another option for pressing. Very efficient, not very popular.
Are you able to put any R/D into the bow if you bag it?
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"This pic is from a thread back in March. Thats 4-3/16" Maple slats(3/4" total) pulled with 12Hg vacuum, pumps will pull 29Hg at sea level. I didn't get the full bend at the tips because I let the bag pinch together before it could suck onto the form. This was using cheap 4mil LDPE plastic."
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