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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Bully on September 15, 2019, 05:19:23 PM

Title: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 15, 2019, 05:19:23 PM: Howdy all.
I'm thinking I want to tackle building a bow. I started down this path a few years ago and got distracted. I have a little more focus and time now so am starting to do the research now.
My thinking is a modern take on a self/board bow. Something along these lines: sandwich a layer of Core-Tuff between some hickory board and back it with bamboo. I have access to power tools which should make this a relatively simple endeavor but I also know that simple does not equate to easy.
I'm currently trying to figure out the wood dimensions. I'd like the bow to be a little on the shorter side, 58-60 inches and draw around #45. I'm thinking that a layer of Core-Tuff between 2 layers of 3/16" hickory with a bamboo back should put me in the right neighborhood.
I'm also looking for advice to make sure my riser won't pop off and how I should dimension my jig. I will be using something similar to what Clay H. used in his bamboo backed bow build on YouTube.
Does anyone have any advice that they would like to share?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 16, 2019, 03:01:13 PM: Well I dont know about the core tuff usauly mixing natural backing with unatural material doesent work well most times, in your case it would probably add a lot of mass with no return , hickory is one tuff wood on its own , I have built a few self bows & sinew bows out of it , I built this bamboo backed hickory bow a while back it is a great shooter & good performer its really durable bow , if you dont have much exsperience building bows keeping it simple is usauly better there is a bit of a learning curve doing it , I hoped that helped !
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 16, 2019, 03:06:37 PM: That certainly does help. I appreciate it.
I've been poking around a bit and have come to a similar conclusion. I'll probably just do a "tri-lam" type of build with a power lam to help disperse some of the forces the handle can come under.
If I may, what are the dimensions of your bow? Weight?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 16, 2019, 03:32:49 PM: I never had a handle pop I think popping handles are over stressed the ones that poped where probably to short of risers or not long enough fades or not glued right ,smooth on epoxy is tuff stuff if used with the right clamp pressure, I don't remember if the the riser was 12" or 14" I will measure it for you when I get back in town over the week end if I remember right my hickory core was started at 3/8" there is a real good vid made by Dean Torges on making these type bows that is real informative and would probably answer all you questions and then some ,I think it's called hunting the bamboo backed bow or some thing similar my bow was 68" @31" 47 lb
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 08:44:34 AM: @forwardhandle , thank you. Again. I really appreciate it.

I have made the executive decision to go with Ipe. I simply like the contrast of wood color between the lighter bamboo and darker Ipe. I'm heading to a shop that will have it in stock. I'm hoping for a 6' board, but I'm limited to buying what ever length they have on hand. I'm sure I can find something to do with the leftovers.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Pat B on September 17, 2019, 09:15:38 AM: This is a boo backed lemonwood bow I built recently that fretted in the belly. I ground down the lemonwood and added an osage belly. The bow is about 67" t/t, 1 3/3" at the fades(I think) out a few inches then tapering to 3/8" tips. My handle is 4" with 2" fades. I started out with a 3/4" lemonwood board and tapered that from full thickness at the handle and began the taper at the fades with less taper for the limbs. Having the full thickness at the handle and wellinto the fades helps prevent handle pop off. The power lam will do the same thing. Generally, in y experience, handles pop off due to bending and not necessarily the glue. I've used many types of glue and only had handles pop off when the handle area bends, even just the slightest.
I did a build along here on TG. Look it up and you'll see how I did it. All the info is in my build along.
(https://i.imgur.com/2zXwmAr.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WAcYHnp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/swp5mz7.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/swp5mz7.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FCP65X4.jpg)
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 03:18:07 PM: That’s beautiful. Thank you for the info.

If anyone is willing to share their jig/dimensions (pics) I’d really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Wolftrail on September 17, 2019, 03:38:34 PM: This website has no lack of information and primitive archer is a good one as well.
I would get all the basic fundamentals of building a basic bow like a selfie or board bow and go for it. You will learn a lot from your mistakes and later asking questions.

In trade school you normally go for about 8 months, then its all field work. I rarely run into a tradesman that has any great deal of experience under 10 years. A seasoned tradesperson will make hundreds of mistakes along the way and learn a great deal in 30 years. I have been doing this hobby for over 8 years and still make mistakes, but its fun and very interesting when it comes down to the woodworking aspect of it...……………..and PatB pretty well explained the handle pop off issue in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 17, 2019, 03:40:21 PM: Tri Lam form...

(http://i.imgur.com/iOv1X5j.jpg) (https://imgur.com/iOv1X5j)

(http://i.imgur.com/BGAAApR.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BGAAApR)

(http://i.imgur.com/yELXCA8.jpg) (https://imgur.com/yELXCA8)

(http://i.imgur.com/75oWPg8.jpg) (https://imgur.com/75oWPg8)
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 03:47:23 PM: Roy from PA, thank you. That’s awesome.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 03:50:01 PM: Wolf trail, I agree. I’ve been doing what I do for a living for 20+ years and still make mistakes and still learn. I have no belief that I won’t screw the pooch several times on this build. But to minimize time lost, I’m here seeking direction. It’s also just fun to see projects and discuss with like minded folks.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Pat B on September 17, 2019, 04:48:26 PM: This pic only shows half of it but you can imagine the full pic. A length of 2x4 with a 2x4 block at each tip.

(https://i.imgur.com/nxRyGsa.jpg)

This pic shows the whole set up from above.
(https://i.imgur.com/yCWvLyy.jpg)

This shows the whole glue up in the hot box.
(https://i.imgur.com/8lzwJVT.jpg)

I used Weldwood Plastic Resin for the glue. It is a urea type glue like Urac or Unibond.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 05:08:37 PM: Pat B
Thank you!
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 05:42:14 PM: Side note, I went to one of the specialty lumber yards that are by me and grabbed a nice Ipe board, 6ft long. It’s a 1 x 4. I could probably get 4 staves from it but will realistically get 2. For a $16 investment, that’s not awful.
They don’t have bamboo but they do have hickory. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Mad Max on September 17, 2019, 06:30:52 PM: 3Rivers Archery
for bamboo and Hickory
You can't just buy any hickory board for backing.
The grain has to be good
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 17, 2019, 06:47:55 PM: IPE is a great bow wood.

But be sure to wear a good respirator and other protective clothing and use good ventilation.

It has been known to give some folks severe reactions.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 17, 2019, 07:53:59 PM: Mad Max and Roy, thank you for the tips. I will be wearing a respirator even though I'll be outside.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 18, 2019, 06:57:49 AM: The reason I mention the glue and clamp pressure there was a fella at the Desplains river shoot in May that had his first BBO and during the match his handle popped off ,I asked him about it and found out that he used PVA glue that Im sure would be fine, but he used squeeze clamps to glue it when I looked at his handle it had gaps in it I invited him back to the shop and reground his handle and cleaned every thing up & reglued it with epoxy , his delam had no wood with it ,it was just a thin glue line I saw him last month and all is fine with the bow !
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 07:21:20 AM: Quote from: Forwardhandle on September 18, 2019, 06:57:49 AM
The reason I mention the glue and clamp pressure there was a fella at the Desplains river shoot in May that had his first BBO and during the match his handle popped off ,I asked him about it and found out that he used PVA glue that Im sure would be fine, but he used squeeze clamps to glue it when I looked at his handle it had gaps in it I invited him back to the shop and reground his handle and cleaned every thing up & reglued it with epoxy , his delam had no wood with it ,it was just a thin glue line I saw him last month and all is fine with the bow !
Thank you. I have some C clamps and some quick release clamps with access to more. If it goes awry, you may have a visitor tho! :saywhat:
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 07:22:56 AM: On a bow like this, is a shelf not advisable? I don't see many with a shelf. If not, do you shoot off your hand or a flipper type rest?
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Pat B on September 18, 2019, 08:03:53 AM: Ipe and hickory makes a great combo. I prefer hickory to boo because it is easier to do and I've had splinters lift with boo but very few failures from hickory.
PVA glue will work fine with this set up but like all glues, instructions must be followed.
I don't care for cut in shelves. They leave a weak point where they are cut in. You can use a Floppy Rest like I did above or add a shelf at the arrow pass. A small wedge of wood, leather, antler or bone will work for the shelf.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 18, 2019, 03:33:40 PM: I got a chance to measure the BBH its 1 3/8" at the fades with a 14" riser it was a very easy bow to make basicly had it made in a long week end I used Dean Torges's jointer method for the taper sense I used a single peace core the tiller came out real close out of the box took about 15 minutes of clean up I started with 2 1/2"of reflex on the form and the bow ended up slightly positive I think if I did it again I would go 4" of reflex !

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Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 03:57:38 PM: Thank you @forwardhandle.
That’s a beaut!
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 18, 2019, 04:23:52 PM: Your welcome I had to dig in the archives but found some pics of the form used to make these bows the form is really easy just 2" by ,material I sandwiched mine between metal strips and rubber with c clamps but any method that gives you even solid presure will work ,the clamps need to be tight but not overly so as to cause to much squeeze out ,more of a feel thing some guys use ruber band wraps or air house system there is a lot of different ways to do it !

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Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 04:29:29 PM: https://youtu.be/XSwx80xjTUE
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 04:30:17 PM: https://youtu.be/-bRYE1hPYy0
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Mad Max on September 18, 2019, 06:31:36 PM: So you get other people to build your bows Roy
:tongue:
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 06:37:10 PM: Yup
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 06:52:49 PM: @Roy from PA
Any chance you would share the dims of the blocks on your form?
Do you add the handle afterward?

I'm thinking that I'll do an innertube wrap on this one. I've got a bicycle shop around the corner and I'll see if he has any punctured inner tubes floating around.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 07:09:11 PM: Center block is 4" high, both mid limb blocks are 2.5" high and the end posts are 5.25" high.
Yes the riser is glued on after the lams are glued up and dried for 24 hours.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 07:43:37 PM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 07:09:11 PM
Center block is 4" high, both mid limb blocks are 2.5" high and the end posts are 5.25" high.
Yes the riser is glued on after the lams are glued up and dried for 24 hours.
Thank you sir!

Another note, I ordered a "U-Finish" bow from Charles Deshler at Two Tracks. It showed up today. It's gorgeous. I just hope I don't screw it up.
It's Orange Osage with Curly Maple lams dyed green. I love it. I'm hoping to start work on it this weekend a bit. It needs shaping on the handle, the string nock grooves cut in, finish sanding and clear sprayed. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 08:07:06 PM: Chris, I sent you a pm.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Mad Max on September 18, 2019, 08:11:13 PM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 07:09:11 PM
Center block is 4" high, both mid limb blocks are 2.5" high and the end posts are 5.25" high.
Yes the riser is glued on after the lams are glued up and dried for 24 hours.

How long are your bows at glue up?
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 18, 2019, 08:34:10 PM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on September 18, 2019, 08:07:06 PM
Chris, I sent you a pm.
Received and replied.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 19, 2019, 06:52:35 AM: How long are your bows at glue up?

62 to 66
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 27, 2019, 07:29:29 AM: So...
Ipe in house.
I switched from Hickory to Bamboo. Why? Because they had nice Bamboo staves for super cheap and the Hickory wan't straight grained.
I'm hoping to come up with a form for the bow this weekend. I have a 2x4 I can use. I'm going to do a longbow so I'll probably turn it sideways and build it that way. I may have to run to my buddy's house to use his table saw. We'll see how it all goes.

I do have to finish my patio, too...
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 27, 2019, 08:53:43 AM: Bamboo staves?

Explain staves?

How about a picture?
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 27, 2019, 09:21:01 AM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on September 27, 2019, 08:53:43 AM
Bamboo staves?

Explain staves?

How about a picture?
A lumber yard by me that carries a lot of exotics has both complete bamboo shafts (1"-6" diameter x 19 1/2' long) and they have some staves or splits (2"-2 1/2" wide x 7' long). I grabbed a couple of them and will prep them as backing.
If my jargon is off, please feel free to correct me. Words matter.
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 27, 2019, 09:31:58 AM: 2"-2 1/2" wide x 7' long

Ok that's a bamboo backing...

Just checking on ya:)

Watch the DVD:)
Title: Re: Gathering Information to Build a Bow
Post by: Bully on September 28, 2019, 08:14:34 AM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on September 27, 2019, 09:31:58 AM
2"-2 1/2" wide x 7' long

Ok that's a bamboo backing...

Just checking on ya:)

Watch the DVD:)

Thanks bud.
I watched last night (I always get a kick out of my wife's face when she sees what I'm watching on the 'puter. She really doesn't get it). Great vid. Thank you for it. I'll take another gander at it tomorrow evening and get it packed up and sent back to you.