I can grab a file and a flip flop and get my snuffers stupid sharp. Hair popping just like the videos. These woodsmans though. I can get the back 1/2 inch sharp but cant get the rest. I have hitem hard with the file but I cant get them to do what they are supposed to do? I am going bonkers and really just wandering how much file work these things take? I have a 12 inch file and I am pushing these the way an arrow would go. I am about to trade these for anything else if I can figure them out. They fly perfect and if I could getem sharp would love for them to be my go to this year.
I have been pushing them along the file till i get a fold then less strokes and pressure. Then I putem on my tri stone and repeat. Back ends are sharp as i need but I just cant get the rest. Any Advice?
You are holding the head to far back shift more toward the point. About the middle.
yea that makes sense. I will hitem again in the am.
You can level out the bevels faster if you have access to a belt sander.
But, Charlie is correct if you are not applying equal pressure.
I use a sharpie to mark out the edge then go to work using even strokes on each side using the file. Holding in the middle of the broadhead with moderate pressure letting the file do the work. As the edges become even I then move to a diamond stone again with the same number of strokes per side, as they get sharp the pressure gets less, at the end I am just hold the head enough to slide it across the stone, then I move to a ceramic rod.
Dave
I was just sharpening some yesterday but I do not sharpen them with a file. The reason the take so long to sharpen is that the do not come with a flat edge out of the pack. Color the edge with a permantent marker so that you can check the progress. Then take your bench stone and start hogging off some material. Using the weight of your hand grab the blade in the center and do 10 strokes per side until you have done all three sides, by that I mean 10 continuous strokes then roll to the next edge. After the first set turn the head 180 degrees and do it again to guarantee you are getting even pressure. When all of the marker is gone you will have a flat sharp edge and you can hone it however you want.
From midway file flat against two blades sideways slightly forward to tip - 5 strokes flip 5 strokes flip 5 strokes flip - then leave it front half is done.
Now sharpen the back half on files mounted on an angle - pushing forward - files cuttingtowards the tail end. 5 strokes flip 5 strokes flip 5 strokes flip.
I have some and was never satisfied with how they sharpen. To me if a head comes to me butter knife dull and I have to use a file to get a basic edge on it then it is a poor product. Too many good heads out there that come sharp and are easy to get scary sharp.
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Cook.,....luckily some of us know how to sharpen. Back before the instant gratification days all heads needed sharpening.....a skill that seems to be getting lost to the throw away generation. Sorry to be blunt, but the guys that came up with this hear have killed more animals than you will ever dream of.
Again I'm sorry, but I got speak my mind, I really grow tired of the laziness, lack of effort mentality. To trash a head made by men that truly worked for their rewards just busts my chops.
TRADITIONALLY WE SHARPENED HEADS!!!!
The Wensel Woodsman ROCKS!!!
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I ain't trashing the head. I thinks it's good and I'm close to having the edge I need. Before these i mainly use razor heads and snuffers. Some how I think your aggression is not at me?
Any how taking the head off and getting more pressure on the middle helped a lot. I have half the head sharpish and doubt a hog would know the difference. A better stone is in order as mine is old and warped which is playing havoc with the three blade.
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No....I didn't say cookie....I answered you earlier....any other help you need from me I'll be glad to pass along. The fact that you ask shows you are trying to learn a skill instead of having something handed to you. And its not aggression...its disdain.
I've killed from bunnies to buffys with the WW....plenty of hogs in between....I also pyramid the tip. If you need help with that...just hollar.
Be glad you have Charlie and Cory posting on this thread....that speaks volumes. Not sure many know the depth of their words.
Cookie... sounds like you are on track. One thing I like to do is when I think I'm done I reverse the direction I'm pulling/pushing the head for just a couple of light strokes. IE... if pushing the head into the file or stone do a couple of finishing strokes pulling the head.
I'm glad to hear you are making good progress. And no, I don't think Terry was thinking of you with what he wrote. You show exactly the determination to get it right that a lot of us old guys admire.
One thing I do is I do a countdown. I start with 10 stokes per side then 9, then8, 7, ect... then change grits/stones or whatever and start again. When I complete the process to my final grit I'll do a single stroke on each side for multiple passes. I also gradually get lighter and lighter with each stage. Most people don't have the patience to get a good sharp head and give up after a couple strokes or attempts. I haven't found a head yet that can't be sharpened, you just gotta figure out the best process for you!
Hope this helps.
Keep going, you got this!
So I gave up completely on my worn out stone as it seemed to do me no good. It made the last .5 inch great but nothing else. I think it's time for a new stone. Not wanting to quit i filed with 12, 10, 8 etc from y'alls suggestion. Then single swiped its several sets with very little to no pressure. Grabbed my arm guard and rubbed the heads down. Result is over half the head will shave. That's good enough for now as due to its design I feel it will cut very clean on game. I plan to get a new stone and see if I can get more edge that way.
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Cookie you can send them to me and I'll level the bevels on my belt sander and ship them back to you asap.
I've done this before for people and I'll be glad to do it again..... Just let me know.
,.. And I will Pyramid the tips for you as well.
Cook.... You best put down the shovel.... Accusing me and multitudes of others for using what you can't sharpen you declare inferior products that have decades of a reputation they stand on won't be tolerated here. Wensels, Jack Zwickey, Fred Bear, Howard Hill....all shipped heads that needed to be sharpened to a hunting level.
I noticed you re-directed your comment away from sharpening to something else.. ...
Nice try at deflection but it wont-work. You've already let it be known that anything that does that come hunting sharp to you is inferior. So I stand by my previous comments as accurate.
Sounds like just what they said. Uneven pressure. I swear there used to be a video of Charlie sharpening one? Or maybe it was snuffers? That's where I first learned how to sharpen them. Used a sharpie to check the edge. Pyramided the tips like suggested, too. First heads I used when I started in '05. Had those and Zwickey Eskimos. The woodsmans worked great on the deer I took. I haven't used them since I last used wood arrows though.
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I don't post much, but I read.
Thanks for keeping it Traditional at Tradgang. I think I'll just leave it at that. :campfire:
Sharpening a broadhead is an important skill to have. Period.
But just like skinning a hog, there are several ways to to do it. While there are good ways and bad ways... there are lazy ways for sure (paying somebody else to do it every time.)
At the end of the day, sharpening techniques and processes differ and some heads are good for some methods and not so good for others. In alot of cases, the tools and process are head dependant... and if you are not good at a particular method, you could try a different way, and maybe with a different head.
But I agree... just because one approach doesnt work on a specific head, that doesnt make that head junk. It just means you lack the skill to sharpen it... and there isnt anything wrong with that.
There are several heads I stink at sharpening and several I am good at. None of them come to me razor sharp that didnt need at least a touch up. The only heads that have come out of a box sharp are those flimsy razor blade heads that you resharpen with your credit card.
For awhile I really couldn't figure out why so many people have a problem sharpening an edged tool. I own a single medium/ fine AG Russell bench stone and I use this on my axe, knives, German Kinetics Silver Flames Zwickeys, Woodsmans, Simmons, etc and it matters not. No special methods and no guides. There are only two tips you need. One is you must only use the the weight of your blade or hand for pressure, bearing down will not make the work any faster. Second you must buy a quality stone. That is a quarried natural stone, dmt diamond, or KME ceramic. Nothing else will do and it will cost you some doughage. A $5 reconstuted stone is more valuable for removing lime stains of a toilet.
Wensel heads are my favorite BH. They are devastating ,and fly great. Txcookie the only way i can get them razor sharp is to mark the edges with a sharpie and use a 12" file to remove all the marker from front till back. This will take a little elbow grease on a new head, but i swear i enjoy it. then count down ad critter getter said. An awesome offer from Terry , by the way!
I'm no expert but Terrys belt sander offer is outstanding
I've used a hand held belt sander upside doen with very very light pressure it really sets the bevel then light strokes on flat stones.
Very easy to sharpen in my opinion
This thread is reminding me of a Zwicky review I saw a few years ago.
The author was complaining about the burr that was on the blades and the weight difference was something like 3 grains.
He also said they seemed to work good after he fixed them.
Terry is right, we have become a lazy instant ready to use society.
Cook
I've just started shooting 3 blade heads this year. I was challenged in sharpening 3 bladed broadheads. I watched Charlie's videos, even spoke with him on the phone about his technique, and just like that, I got them sharp.
Sharpening broadheads has always been part of the traditional journey for me, it's part of the hunt. I don't think it's fair of you to call reputable broadheads with years of proven track records "inferior " because of the lack of knowledge you currently have in sharpening them.
If your still having difficulties, i would take Terry up on his generous offer.
I don't think tx cookie said that.
I had some old stones that weren't flat. I bought some kme stones a corse and a fine.
I started using WWs last season and was very impressed. Couple questions, on a belt sander what grit belt are you using and tell me a bit more about the pyramid point and how to accomplish that, if you don't mind. Not that I had any issue with the factory point at all.
thanks
ALDO
I just tried an alternate method that worked well. I used a 150 grit piece of sand paper on the counter top. It took 2 strips to level the factory edge and it will stick in my nail afterward. This method will eventually surpass the cost of quality sharpening stones but it is effective and faster. It took about 30 minutes.
X2 on the sandpaper. Finish with 600 grit.
Cookie:
Feel free to PM me and I will walk you through the EASY & INEXPENSIVE process I use to get all three-blades, including the Woodsman, razor sharp in just a few minutes.
It's pretty easy, but just not all that obvious.
Joe
200 grit...
I'll get back on the pyramiding later....
BigJohns idea might work well...rougher grit with less speed should equal out.
Once those bevels get level, it a cinch to put a quality hunting edge and touch up.
Well a higher grit will definitely go faster, I just had 150 on my work bench. Working with a lower grit will give you some room for error though. The power sander would be the best, I was operating on the assumption he had to sharpen them manually.
So I have an edge fred bear would love. Tj I love the offer but kinda takes the fun out of it when someone does the hard part for you but again thanks for the offer.
I'm low on hair on my thigh and have always been a fan of a rougher edge. I'm excited that I can get what I want with just a file and arm guard. I'm gonna work these just like snuffer it just seems to take a little more time.
I can get them sharper I just need a better stone which I will fix next pay day. As for now they cut, sharp is sharp so I'm gtg for a pig or two next weekend.
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I started shooting woodsmans last year once I learned the right way to sharpen them its very easy to get them very sharp I probably wont hunt with another head after using woodsmans last year they are deadly and they leave a lot of blood on the ground
Quote from: bigbadjon on September 01, 2019, 04:11:46 PM
Well a higher grit will definitely go faster, I just had 150 on my work bench. Working with a lower grit will give you some room for error though. The power sander would be the best, I was operating on the assumption he had to sharpen them manually.
Yes me as well. Used a file. A lot. Then a diamond and Arkansas stones.
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From the guys who made some well known 3 blades :
Black the cutting edges, put the head on a shaft, grind 2 blades at a time on a fine 6" grinding wheel,
[ LIGHTLY] , keep turning and equal number of strokes on each pair of blades til the black is gone.
I like to go from back of blade to point to keep the point even, just pull the arrow in a straight line.
Then a fine file to the now hollow ground edge, again 2 blades at a time. Light strokes, all you need to do is clean up the edge slightly.
I can sharpen my VPA 200s or Woodsman blades in about 3 minutes start to finish.
May not be for everyone but I won't sharpen any other way now....:)
Around here years back, we put three blade heads in a bench vice and used two hands on a 12" file to get even pressure. the back blade in the vice and sharpen the two up facing sides at a time. The guys here that use the Woodsmans still do it that way to get an initial edge.
Just had a brainstorm (or maybe a brain fart, I'm not sure). When I go to archery shoots it is common to see somebody giving a shooting clinic, bow build or some other skill development. It would be nice to attend a seminar that deals with various ways to sharpen broadheads. This might include file sharpening, stones with their related systems, power tools etc. It would be helpful as well as fun. I got to get better - I'm tired of taking new heads and grinding them into needles. That lack of skill is one of the reasons I have never tried the three sided heads.
Sam,
I can talk you through file sharpening. 3-blade broad heads are especially easy to get shaving sharp if you know the tricks of using the right file in the right way. Let me know if I can be of help.
Joe
For those interested here's a link to the tutorial I did a while back. It's in the "How To's"
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=108924.0
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Many have mentioned it, but using a sharpie is what got me where I needed to be. Once I could literally see what was happening (because of the sharpie), I gained a better understanding of what was needed. Since then I've never had an issue getting the WW wicked sharp with files, crock stick, and some leather. I too pyramid the tips and they become VERY durable. I love the profile and the look!
My handle is J. Cook.... Not to be confused with any other "Cook" in this thread. :biglaugh:
Quote from: bigbadjon on September 01, 2019, 04:11:46 PM
Well a higher grit will definitely go faster, I just had 150 on my work bench. Working with a lower grit will give you some room for error though. The power sander would be the best, I was operating on the assumption he had to sharpen them manually.
John...I think you miss understood me....
You said 150 grit on counter....which I assume is by hand.....
200 grit is just higher in number but light grit....
So....that's why I said 'moving faster' cause I'm using a belt sander.
Rougher slower - Lighter faster = same result :thumbsup:
Pyramid....
Lay the head flat on your sharpening surface ....now grab the head by the up blade in the middle and lift up 1/4 inch and drag backwards....rotate the blade an repeat.
Depending on the surface this may take 10 to 20 times. Once you get it like you want it....check the tip for a bur on one side. ....lay that side down and do the same as above but VERY LIGHT.
Now you should be done.
This method is the most consistent for me....henceforth the easiest.
Terry, I have started using VPA 3 blade. I can get them sharp ,but have not made a pyramid on the point. I will start doing that. Thanks for the info on how to do it.
Yes Sir....the VPAs come with the bevels level. I just use a diamond hone on them.
Thank You
Quote from: Terry Green on September 04, 2019, 12:09:05 PM
Pyramid....
Lay the head flat on your sharpening surface ....now grab the head by the up blade in the middle and lift up 1/4 inch and drag backwards....rotate the blade an repeat.
Depending on the surface this may take 10 to 20 times. Once you get it like you want it....check the tip for a bur on one side. ....lay that side down and do the same as above but VERY LIGHT.
Now you should be done.
This method is the most consistent for me....henceforth the easiest.
This is how ray Hammond showed me about 10 years ago. Works like a charm.
And, Am I the only person on the planet that can get ANY double bevel 2 or 3 blade head to pop hair but put a 2 blade single bevel in my hand and I just make it worse? :biglaugh:
HA! I showed Ray how to do it in 06. ....on the porch on a picnic table at Ray's Hog Heaven. :biglaugh:
txcookie...sent you a message
This helped me more than I can say.
The way Mr. Swartz explains the "why" you're doing it made everything make sense. (SEE ATTACHMENT) [attachment=1,msg2883058]
Using a 14" babbit file at 1st will do wonders for edge setting.
...in all honesty, with a really light touch on the babbit the heads could be good enough in a pinch.
Quote from: Terry Green on September 05, 2019, 07:34:51 AM
HA! I showed Ray how to do it in 06. ....on the porch on a picnic table at Ray's Hog Heaven. :biglaugh:
That's funny! He showed me with a big bastard file on his back porch a few years after you showed him. Wish I would of been able to make it out to hog Heaven before it closed down
I just got back from my yearly deer hunt. On the opening morning I got a 25 yard shot at a nice doe, for some reason I shot low and she was gone. I went and found my arrow check the WW broad head and it needed some sharping so I used the method I posted except all I needed was the diamond stone, 60 storks later it was ready to go. Two days later I got another shot at 25.5 yards, the deer was slightly quartered toward me my arrow entered just in front of the shoulder and exited the center of the off shoulder then went another 10 yards.
The WW's are great broad heads and I can reuse the same head again for Elk in 2 days.
Dave
So after all yalls advice a new file a new stone i can get these things good and sharp. I prefer a little tooth to my edge but still good and shaving. This has been achieved and i got one honed and stroped just to see if i could.
All ya need is a sharpie, a wide file, and a decent stone. These things sharpen easily with the right tools. Thanks to all(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/9d791f44f65ff8239274553331bd5314.jpg)
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Good deal TX! Now run one through something tasty. :biglaugh:
Quote from: caleb7mm on September 04, 2019, 09:23:14 PM
Quote from: Terry Green on September 04, 2019, 12:09:05 PM
Pyramid....
Lay the head flat on your sharpening surface ....now grab the head by the up blade in the middle and lift up 1/4 inch and drag backwards....rotate the blade an repeat.
Depending on the surface this may take 10 to 20 times. Once you get it like you want it....check the tip for a bur on one side. ....lay that side down and do the same as above but VERY LIGHT.
Now you should be done.
This method is the most consistent for me....henceforth the easiest.
This is how ray Hammond showed me about 10 years ago. Works like a charm.
And, Am I the only person on the planet that can get ANY double bevel 2 or 3 blade head to pop hair but put a 2 blade single bevel in my hand and I just make it worse? :biglaugh:
So yea, i hate single bevels fornthat reason. Never had any luck with them and never will as i just dont need something so hard to sharpen. I was and am still not sold on any advantage the offer.
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I'm with you TX.