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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ChiefStingingArrow on August 17, 2019, 09:03:48 PM

Title: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: ChiefStingingArrow on August 17, 2019, 09:03:48 PM
Is there a species of wood that is more "unbreakable" than others? And by more I mean there is clear evidence that one species of wood holds up better (read makes good stumping arrow) than other types of species...If so what species have you experienced that to be? I am looking for the toughest wood arrow that I can find.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Caddo on August 17, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
Not exactly wood but, bamboo is the toughest you'll find. I've found it to be "tougher " and more durable than wood shaft.

LD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: darin putman on August 17, 2019, 09:47:06 PM
About all I've shot is fir, cedar and bamboo. As far as breaking it seems to me that the less grain runout I have on my shafts the tougher they are. I personally favor surewood shafts for this reason and that they seem easier to keep straight. Don't know that my reasoning is right but makes since to me.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Fletcher on August 17, 2019, 09:55:50 PM
Hickory, ash and maple shafts are really tough, but I would much rather shoot fir.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Orion on August 17, 2019, 10:01:36 PM
As Fletcher notes, the hardwoods -- hickory, ash, maple -- are tougher than the soft woods -- POC, Doug Fir, Sitka Spruce. The hardwoods are also a lot heavier.  Agree that bamboo is as tough as the hardwoods, and lighter.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Pat B on August 17, 2019, 10:20:49 PM
Poplar is a very tough shafting. It weighs about the same as POC but way more durable.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Tradarchery on August 17, 2019, 11:12:29 PM
Another vote for Doug fir. I have made some "wonderful" shots aiming big, missing bigger. Hitting all sorts of hard things.

Most of the time I just straighten the arrow and keep shooting it.
Picture below is the results from a hit with a broadhead on a cement block around a fire ring.  The arrow was stuck in the block. I straightened it and it is still in my quiver.

~Brian(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190818/cea1f6521521dcc98f4acb342297f22b.jpg)
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Sam McMichael on August 18, 2019, 08:50:22 AM
Hickory is heavy, but it is tough as nails.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Jim Wright on August 18, 2019, 09:37:30 AM
 I.M.P.O. the really tough, breakage resistant hardwoods are quite heavy and hard to straighten and not surprisingly often hard to come by. Some of the more recently popular exotic "hardwoods" are a bit more durable but still break. The often touted "footed" shafts are a bit tougher, pretty and add f.o.c. but simply transfer the point of breakage to the back of the footing rather than behind the field point. Wood shafts will break!!! (and I've heard rumors that even carbon ones sometimes do). A large majority of mine have occurred on angular, glancing shots rather than direct hits. To me it's something to live with and I thoroughly enjoy making my own. I shoot Surewood Douglas Fir Premiums and have never gotten a single bad shaft from them. They always come straight, require practically no effort to keep them that way and are a bit tougher than the other available "soft wood" shafting.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: SuperK on August 18, 2019, 02:54:05 PM
I have shot cedar, poplar, chundoo, Sitka spruce and Douglas fir.  The Douglas fir has been the most durable, by far.  I would even rank it above some carbon shafts esp. on direct, straight on hits.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: ChiefStingingArrow on August 20, 2019, 10:24:00 PM
Thanks for the replies!
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Red Beastmaster on August 21, 2019, 08:42:22 PM
My stumpers are oak dowels from Lowes. I can't say they are unbreakable but they can take a pounding.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Wudstix on September 11, 2019, 09:48:43 PM
I'm fan of tapered Ash and Maple.  Tapering seems to let you get away with a little more spine and weight, that may help with durability.

-- Michael
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: KentuckyWolf on September 11, 2019, 10:32:04 PM
For wood arrows....hickory. I have tired and used several different types of wood shafts over the years, but hickory was hands down the toughest. They are also the hardest to find commercially available.....marched to weight and spine. They are also needy...if you will than some for maintaining straightness.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: A Lex on September 11, 2019, 11:50:36 PM
Toughest I've used are Red Balau shafts from Kevin Forrester, strong and heavy.

I've used a fair number of them, and they come close to indestructible for wooden shafts for me. I shoot them out of a 75lb longbow and sure I've broken a few on hard glancing shots, but they are seriously tough.

Worst breakage is when big critters fall on them, but then I suppose that's a good problem to have.

Best
Lex
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Petrichor on September 12, 2019, 12:43:28 AM
Spruce. Slightly lighter than cedar and seems to be much tougher.  Have a batch of arrows that has lasted 2 years in changed on my primary bow. 9 or original 12 left this far.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Wild Bill MCP 808 on September 12, 2019, 08:30:06 AM
Hickory and Ash but that ups the weight.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Russ Clagett on September 12, 2019, 04:03:49 PM
For the price, I'm not sure you can beat Surewoods, which are doug fir....I've hit rocks which wrecked the tips, but still reused the shafts...

Just my 2.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: zwickey2bl on September 12, 2019, 11:07:28 PM
I bought three dozen ash shafts last year, planning to use them on my elk hunt and also thought they'd be durable stump shooting arrows. I promptly broke three of them the first camping/stumpshooting weekend, usung the hex blunts. Just bad luck maybe, but I hadn't broken that many POC shafts in the previous year.  :dunno:
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: A Lex on September 12, 2019, 11:51:55 PM
Yup, those Surewood Douglas Fir are excellent. I only use wood arrows and 90%+ have been Surewoods. Only other shafts I use are the Red Balau mentioned above. I reckon they are a bit tougher than the Douglas Fir.

Please note though, I've no complaints about the Surewoods what-so-ever, except they are sometimes a bit hard to get in the higher spine that I need. If I could get them, I'd use them. Till then, I'll have to wait till they can find some more of the necessary logs to make them.

Best
Lex
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Russ Clagett on September 13, 2019, 09:16:50 AM
Sometimes when I need a particular spine or weight I just contact Surewoods directly and they have been able to sort me out so far.

Great guys.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: OkKeith on September 13, 2019, 10:40:55 AM
Aaron-

In making POC and DF wood shafts, I have found that what you use to seal the shaft can have some effect on durability as well. I have several sets that I dipped in inexpensive water based poly. I have several other sets that I used good (not inexpensive) spar varnish on. The water based poly gives a good coat and seals the arrow well but doesn't seem to provide much protection or added durability whereas the spar makes the shafts pretty tough.

I use a piece of PVC pipe (about an inch or two longer than my arrows, glued cap on one end, tight fitting cap for the other) to soak the arrows. I have a piece of PVC I can get three, straightened, nock and point tapered arrow shafts into. I drop them in and then pour in the spar. You could use a bigger piece of PVC and do more arrows but that takes a correspondingly larger amount of the finish to fill up. I cap it off (smear some Vaseline around the inside of the cap or it will be hard to get off and you might spill the whole thing trying... lesson learned) and let it sit for 30 minutes or so. I have a rack I banged together out of scrap wood with a row of finishing nails spaced across the top. I use cheap wood clothes pins to reach in to the tube and pull out the arrow shaft, let it drip for a moment and then hang it on the rack to dry.

I can do a dozen in a couple of hours and they are usually ready to fletch the next day. Just as a note based on experience, I put them in the tube nock end down and grip the point end with the clothes pin. As the arrow shaft dries where the pin is it makes a slightly less than perfect finish. Since I re-sand the point taper to get a good glue bond for whatever point I use the finish is removed in this area.

You can vary the soak time. Really dry, warm arrow shafts need less time (soaking on a warm day or in a warm workshop makes it go faster as well) to vary the coat. Using a heavy finish adds some weight to the arrow shaft but I have not seen a big change in spine. I have some spar varnished POC shafts that I have been shooting for ten years that look as good the day I made them and I am hard on my arrows.

Hope this helps.

OkKeith
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on September 13, 2019, 01:33:41 PM
I started making and shooting wood arrows about two years I broke some and repaired them as well. Once I break a wood arrow I get out my Arrow Fix and repair it great tool. 
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: zwickey2bl on September 17, 2019, 08:45:21 AM
OkKeith, I use a similar method but instead of the spar varnish, I've been using Watco Danish Oil. I have a PVC tube made up that will hold a dozen arrows, and went on and bought a gallon of the Danish Oil. It is way cheaper by the gallon, anyway. I leave the shafts submersed in the oil for 24 hours or longer, allowing them to soak up as much as they will. It adds a little weight to the shaft and the finish is in, not on, the wood. When I take them out I let them drip back into the tube for a minute then just wipe off the excess. After they dry thoroughly, I top off with a little spray or wipe-on poly, makes them pull out of the target butt more easily. 
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: fujimo on September 18, 2019, 12:39:30 PM
Doug fir makes for excellent shafting, too me its only downside is that its a bit heavy, Sitka spruce on the other hand( not the "german spruce " mind you- its a completely different specie) is incredibly tough, and its quite a bit lighter.
I find that this allows for a higher FOC arrow, without getting an overly heavy arrow.

from what i have used, and measured: using lighter weight shafts for my #50 RD bow

with a 125gr point i get an FOC of 13% with an overall  mass of about 530 gr- still 10gr + per #
however if I
taper back 8" to 5/16, it will give an FOC of 14.3% and a mass of about 500 gr ( lighter than the parallel shaft setup)
Taper back and add 200 gr pt =FOC of 20 % and a total mass of around 580 gr.
20% to 30% FOC is considered an  EFOC!
And for heavier hunting arrows, For when I go hunting back in africa regularly- i just use heavier Sitka shafts to get my overall weights up.


Sitka has an exceptionally long fiber, longer than other woods,  and thats what really hold it together well- Sitka is considered to be the strongest wood for its weight in the world ( but of course they can still break on a glancing shot).
I guess thats why it was the preferred wood for airplane frames and for masts and spars on traditional sailing vessels!

I get many thousands of stumping shots from sitka shafting, but like mentioned above, premium shafting is the key. Nice clean shafts , minimal runout!
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: slowbowjoe on September 18, 2019, 03:42:18 PM
I do a lot of stumping, all with wood arrows. Doug Fir is my first choice, though even  the lightest sets of shafts are just a bit heavier than my ideal preference. I don't doubt the hardwoods are tougher, but I know I just wouldn't like the trajectory, due to their weight.
The firs are tougher than cedar or sitka spruce, both of which I've used on occasion. I also find I break less arrows shooting Judo's than blunts.
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Petrichor on September 19, 2019, 12:36:20 PM
Bear paw spruce shafts. 28 bucks a dozen weight matched from kustom king. Toughest wood I have used..
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Captain*Kirk on September 19, 2019, 01:28:19 PM
I normally use cedar. Had a buddy gift me some Douglas Fir shafts and those things are tough as nails! Many hard stump hits while roving and like a Timex, they keep on ticking!
Title: Re: ? for wood arrow shooters
Post by: Wheels2 on September 19, 2019, 02:38:04 PM
    I would go back to woods except I don't like the 23/64" diameter.  I need 79# spine so no other option for me.
    I am afraid that the good old days for wood are gone.  Unless someone starts compressing shafts again .