Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: KentuckyWolf on July 29, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
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A small rant
Just got the “archery” catalog from Cabelas/Bass Pro. It contains zero traditional archery equipment. No longbows or recurves, no gloves or tabs, and not even feathers to fletch with. Not one single page. Not one single item. There was not even a single article of wool....not even wool socks. There was however, 10 pages of compounds and 10 pages of crossbows.
‘Worlds foremost outfitters”....what a joke.
I know Cabelas/Bass Pro is not a go to source for traditional equipment for many but what the heck. I can remember in the 80s and 90s...multiple pages of traditional archery equipment....drooling over Bear, Martin, and other Recurves....while planning on how to save up for one.
Is traditional archery so small as to not warrant inclusion.....or are we that far out from mainstream.
Oh ....and Bear now makes crossbows? Don’t think Papa Bear would have liked that.
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I got the same archery catalog today, went straight to the trash
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Wife burnt it in the fire pit. Trash for sure, but at least it started a fire.
Also.....with all the pre set up combo packages...ready to shoot/kill. I am was surprised they even bothered to include targets in the thing.
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Actually single string archery is a small percentage. Single string hunters even less. Lots of Olympic style, field archery and non hunting type of archers anymore.
Most pro shops have a token or minimal offering of single string equipment and accessories.
That instant success, minimal work and effort to be accurate enough to hunt and minimal time needed to practice drives the compound industry. Many guys I know hardly shoot their compounds outside of hunting season yet they fill tags. Folks with three and four kids at different activities each evening, working 60 to 70 hours a week and no easy place to get to for practice aren't going to do it the hard way.
Look at the average age of the members here. I promise it isn't in the early 30s.
I went to Canada for bear with three friends who hunted with their compounds. Out back of camp practice quickly was a revelation for them and myself. I shot as tight and tighter groups at 20 yards as they did. I even almost Robin hooded an arrow blowing out the nock and splitting the rear of the arrow with my Primaltech longbow. One of the group who had given me grief about not carrying my compound quit that talk after that first shooting session.
Btw he shot his bear with the guide's rifle.
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No Olympic or field archery was in there.
Traditional market has to be as large or larger than it was in the nineties. Might be more fragmented... more competition.
Won’t get stated on the instant reward/gratification.....lowest common denominator...make it easy crowd.
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I personally don’t feel the need to get upset if a major sporting goods store doesn’t stock or sell any traditional equipment. There are a lot of sponsors right here on Tradgang that has everything I may ever need...
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I personally don’t feel the need to get upset if a major sporting goods store doesn’t stock or sell any traditional equipment. There are a lot of sponsors right here on Tradgang that has everything I may ever need...
I agree but it would be nice to be able to go to BP or another shop and test ride a bow before buying. I've bought several modern bows over the years and can tell you it's nice to go to the pro shop, shoot five or six bows of different brands and models then walk away with one you feel good shooting. Not as easy with a traditional set up.
I've bought, sold and traded a few trad bows on the internet and it's kind of a crap shoot. Love the looks of the bow, the bowyer is well respected and some love that model, but it just didn't shoot for me or have that feel. If I'm not gonna hunt it it goes on the trade block. It can be a frustrating process.
However the compound market is driven by a limited number of brands. Yes there are a few mass production bows like Bear and now that the Chinese market is in it that opportunity is expanding as well but when 95% or better of the customers going into a store are looking for modern style equipment it's hard for a store to invest too much money for inventory and space for the 5% or less of the market.
It's just a business fact.
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I used to hit my local pro shop on a regular basis just to peruse the latest in accessories and scope out the latest and greatest bows. (Of course I used to shoot pigs like they were going out of style and had to buy broadheads and arrows frequently as well.) Now I seldom go there. Sometimes when I do it is a nostalgic drop by and I realize there's little there for me any more.
I still can shoot my "other" bow. But it no longer holds my interest, drives my desire to shoot or fills me with satisfaction for that one perfect arrow or a really tight group. The satisfaction of knowing I built my own deadly arrows and can tune my own set up without a special bow press and a micrometer feeds me in a way that makes the extra effort worth it.
And honestly as a compound shooter I never had to ask for help or advice on a forum. I never really socialized much with shooters other than my hunting friends. The last four years have been a journey not only into traditional equipment but seeing a whole other community out here and enjoying most of the folks I've met through it.
Heck I see a bunch of folks buying their groceries online so they don't have to go to the store.
The world is changing rapidly.
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The problem is Bass Pro etc would first have to market to human beings. They aren't. They are marketing to consumers.
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Our segment of the population is so small, it's just not profitable for most of these large companies to carry our kind of gear. I order from our sponsors or other hobbyists for what I need. I get good stuff and better customer service without the frustration. About the only thing I buy from the large companies is footwear, but as soon as Theresa Asbell figures out how to make waterproof wool boots, I'll go that route.
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X's 2 Sam.
Trad Gang sponsors are all I need.
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Yep it's a different planet alright I was bored last night watch a hunting show one that watched before a this was the third time I seen them make a bad shot on a hog and turned to the camera and say it's alright I am feeding other critter :tongue: :tongue:.
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I was in Texas in June and went to the Dallas Cabela's. I am new to Trad hunting and went to the archery section and was surprized at the limited stuff on hand. They had some Bear recurves and a few takedown bows in their racks. Also had a few arrows. The gentleman that was over the area told me that they have been receiving more requests for the Traditional equipment and expected that they may receive more equipment in the future. I asked him about some Zwickey broadheads and he said that was the first time he had heard that brand requested in years. I told him I would keep checking on-line to see what they have available.
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It is what it is. Can't blame a business for selling what makes the most money for them. IBM practically invented the personal computer, but now they don't even sell them. When I started serious outdoor activities 50 years ago, North Face was the epitome of serious outdoor apparel, tents, and sleeping bags, even for Everest expeditions. Now they seem mainly interested in making things that look good in a ski lodge. But they're still around after 50 years, and so is IBM, while many other companies that weren’t willing to change with the times aren't .
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The problem is Bass Pro etc would first have to market to human beings. They aren't. They are marketing to consumers.
This is spot on. Archery and bowhunting is at a pivotal point in history. Just like the 1970's when the mechanical release aid and compound hit the scene. The crossbow is here and is influencing the future of our sport. Not a good thing...
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The more self sufficient we are with our archery needs the less retailers moving away from trad will bother you. I only buy string material and points and nocks, I make everything else. I don't get excited looking through any of the big traditional suppliers catalogs anymore like I once did, I don't need any of their stuff.
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Well this is just me...
Personally I view Bass Pro, Cabela's Field & Stream, Dick's....the same way I do Walmart or Meijer. Large. Highly impersonal. Investor focused. Market share. It pains me nothing that they appeal to the masses and carry little or nothing of what I want in archery/bowhunting gear. I much prefer dealing with small to intermediate vendors and feeling like I'm supporting those with their roots in the sport I love.
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Well this is just me...
Personally I view Bass Pro, Cabela's Field & Stream, Dick's....the same way I do Walmart or Meijer. Large. Highly impersonal. Investor focused. Market share. It pains me nothing that they appeal to the masses and carry little or nothing of what I want in archery/bowhunting gear. I much prefer dealing with small to intermediate vendors and feeling like I'm supporting those with their roots in the sport I love.
SPOT ON SIR!!! :thumbsup:
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Granted I haven’t bought much from either in years....except the occasional pair of boots, fly line or tippet. I get all my traditional archery gear from traditional archery vendors/suppliers (all of whom are also sponsors here).
However, I ordered my first trad bows from cabelas....all the local archery shops were in the possess of dying...the few recurves on hand were half delaminated or looked like they were used for boat anchors before being traded/pawned.
Just a sad state of affairs. I mean their catalogs reach more hands than 3Rivers, Kustim King, etc combined.
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Kevin X2 !
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While I agree that I don't feel I need them anymore than they need me it is a low point for anyone that might have an interest in moving towards traditional gear when they don't know where to find it.
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Kevin Dill accurately described the marketing strategy of many of the big producers. From an economic perspective, that is probably a wise business decision. What bothers me, though, is that they want to give the consumer what they decide the consumer needs rather than what the consumer wants. Somewhere along the way these business models must accommodate the customer, or the business will decline. Like others, I used to really look forward to getting the big store catalogs, but now, not so much. I still go there for camping gear but not for my archery supplies.
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After reading these posts that lament how difficult it is to find a merchant dealing in traditional equipment, I think it is time to think about the connectivity we all enjoy today that is provided by the internet and try to imagine what our sport would be like without it. Thanks Terry and Trad Gang for what you all have done. It makes me feel fortunate indeed.
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Lots of trad materials inside that little window box:)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190731/439cbb5dda8d169516f197b19e341105.jpg)
And there is a ton of trad stuff for sale or trade in the classifieds.
http://tradgang.com/sponsors/cm.html
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So ironic that technology allows us to connect with the traditional community. Where would traditional archery be without the internet for supplies and the flow of knowledge... :dunno:
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Very true.
There is very little traditional archery in mainstream media. A reboot of Robinhood every few years....a few trick shots from Byron Ferguson ...and one show with Fred Eichler on one of the outhouse channels, a few token articles in major hunting magazines (TBM is great, subscriber since way back but it’s not widely or readily available to most...unless you are already looking for it) and now with zero coverage in the most widely distributed outdoor/hunting/fishing catalog. Without the connectivity that the internet provides the future of traditional archery would be very small and bleak.
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I guess I didn't miss anything when I directed mine straight to the recycle bin. Never opened a page don't have time to look at the dumb thing anyway. I still have 2 magazines I want to read but haven't found the time.
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I'm ok with the no trad stuff . like said before I'd rather support trad gang sponsors but BP/cabelas is sure nice when I need to run in for an elk bugle or a spinner bait..
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Without most people realizing it.....
Consumers used to create the demand for products, and businesses responded.
Today, businesses create products and a demand for them. Consumers respond.
The big box sporting goods stores have flipped the script on us.
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Also, the point is not about supporting Cabelas/Bass-pro or not. It’s about it being an “archery “ catalog with zero traditional archery equipment in it but 10 full pages of crossbows. By the way, you can bet if there is zero traditional archery options in there “archery” catalog .....there will be zero in the Spring Turkey, Fall Deer and probably not in their Master catalog either. That lack of inclusion will be a big loss in exposure. Think about some kid picking up and thumbing through those. Kid looks through their “archery” catalog and would think archery means compounds.... or worse (God help us) crossbows.
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Don't know why any of the big box hoys even print catalogs anymore.
It's ALL on line somewhere and they all show up on the search engines.
Including ebay
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What Kevin said x3
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Yep, mine went straight to the trash. No need to even look in it. Probably the most disheartening about them not carrying any kind of trad equipment is that some young guys may miss out on the opportunity to start out with trad. Since they cater to the masses, that is going to be the most visible thing when getting started. I guess a guy can always become a convert though.
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That's a good point.
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Jake
That was my way of thinking too. We may have some people that never start down the traditional path....and that would be unfortunate.
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11 yards,12 yards vs 100 yds and 100 plus yards; the difference between my my kill distance and a best friend's kill distance, last two harvests-me with homemade bows vs a Matthews-you know the deal. I want to see the dern "white of their eyes" distance. Close and real.
I spend time on Primitive Archer because I make my own stuff. Yet, you guys are also the best. Your galleries of photos of harvest motivate me.
I will not ever shoot a crossbow (anyone with construction injuries, I get it, btw), nor shoot a "string rifle." wood, feathers, and the Struggle!
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Not every compound shooter is that way. There is a lot of negative rhetoric about that and even though most of the animals I've killed with a bow were with modern equipment, all but a few under 25 yards. A large percentage under 20 yards. You can wanna get close regardless of how far your equipment is effective.
I'm not for the long range archery kills at all. Or long range rifle kills for that matter. I think it shows a lack of respect for the game and for the challenge archery should be. Hoping like heck you can get drawn and release without being seen or them hearing the quivering breathing from the adrenaline rush. Bowhunting should be up close and personal. Unfortunately with sights and release aides it has become too easy of a process to take game close. The challenge becomes how far can I push it.
But that's why many of us go to the single string later in our bowhunting career. For that renewal of the challenge. The chance to be just as deadly the hard way.
But because of the fact that the industry, corporate neglect of our discipline, it is our responsibility not to alienate and belittle them. Because when they tire of the heavily traveled road, they only have folks like you to guide them. They will be lost, not have the sales and glitter of the corporate machine, and you are the only guides and mentors that can lead them down the road less traveled. The only ones who can help them make the transition.
Guys from the Texasbowhunter traditional forum did that for me. Without them I wouldn't have had any clue not only how to get through the tough parts but also other places to find folks who share this obsession.
Like y'all. If not you then our discipline will be destined to a slow diminish until it disappears.
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True. We would do well to be the ambassadors of our sport to all that we can.
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I went to a local archery range last month and encountered a girl with her dad, shooting bows that looked like they came off the set of a Star Wars movie. She had never seen a recurve bow and cedar arrows. She told me about all the features of each little gizmo that festooned her bow, how each made the act of shooting/hitting easier. When she was done she asked me what I thought. I simply replied, "Since when is easier better?"
JMC
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Kevin Dill is right on ....I live between a Cabelas and a Bass Pro, probably 1/2 hr to either. I have a Cabela's gift card so went Sunday to get a box of .30 180gr RN bullets. This is New England which equals woods hunting for most so you'd think they would stock such a common component. Not one RN in any caliber in their selection. And nothing for a 30-30 either. And here in MA we can't get reloading components by mail order so you would expect to have more of a selection since we're forced to buy these locally. Obviously don't know or care about the customers' needs. I walked out with nothing and my wife will use the card to buy clothes for someone for Christmas.
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My 2 cents. These folks at Cabelas and BPS are on the same side of the aisle as me- hunting and fishing wise. They are not the enemy.
We will never be the majority anymore, but we can hold our own. If we each sacrifice a little of our time at the check in station or meat processor, if that's how we do it, talking up our trad life. Window and bumper stickers along with t-shirts that promote Trad Gang, trad archery and organizations like PBS can at least provide an opening to a conversation.
Given the ease of wheel bows and crossguns, we're already at a disadvantage in curb appeal. But if a potential trad shooter isn't mentored, how will he/she start?
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Our segment of the population is so small, it's just not profitable for most of these large companies to carry our kind of gear. I order from our sponsors or other hobbyists for what I need. I get good stuff and better customer service without the frustration. About the only thing I buy from the large companies is footwear, but as soon as Theresa Asbell figures out how to make waterproof wool boots, I'll go that route.
Yep...
:archer2:
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I was inside the OKC BP store just a couple days ago and can say that yes, the vast majority of their racks were filled with training wheel bows. However, the guy behind the counter had a Bear long bow in his hand ever time I saw him.