On the weekend I watched "Traditional Harvest I-IV.
It was very interesting and amazing to me as I'm living in a country where bow hunting is illegal.
I was quite astonished that in the U.S. bow hunters use dogs for trailing a mountain lion but do obviously not use dogs for trailing wounded animals, whether wounded by shots or car accidents.
I always saw the hunter in the video following the blood trail without the help of the good nose of his especially trained four-legged companion.
In Germany we have a long tradition to trian hunting dogs like the German Shorthair or Longhair as well as the Weimaraner and other dogs not only to point hare and pheasant to the hunter but also following a blood trail.
Some German hunters even have special purpose dogs only used for trailing wounded animals on their blood trail after being wounded by a shot or car accident. These are the "Bracken" and the "Hannoveraner Schweißhund" and the "Bayrische Gebirgsschweißhund".
To those who are a littel bit familar with the German langauge, German hunters call the blood after leaving the body of the game animal "Schweiß", not "Blut", which would be compared to your "Sweat" and "Blood".
As far as I know you use dogs for retrieving killed waterfowl. So why not for finding larger game?
Because we too often cheat; and would use the dogs to chase the game for a shot.
Some states I believe do allow dogs for blood trailing; but most do not.
You can use a dog for bears as well as lion; so if you wound either; you can trail it with dogs.
My state; Idaho; requires a hound hunter permit to do so.
I have used my german wirehair; also known as Drathaars on a lead- a leash- for bear.
We now have such a wolf problem; you take a huge chance of losing a dog of any kind to the wolves.
If people here could be trusted to use dogs only for tracking wounded game; and not for the hunt; it might have a chance of being legalized.
But frankly speaking; there are too many people that think other people would cheat.
I heard that bloodtrailing with dogs was getting more popular in America...pretty sure a reputeable Moose outfitter uses them in Canada.
I think David Quidort (sp?) hunted with him.
Good to see that tradgang gets more and more attention internationally.
Legalize it!! :readit:
Most guys I know have no problem using a dog to help track if they are having a little trouble with the recovery of arrowed big game. But there is no need for it on every shot and following a blood trail yourself to your reward is a big part of the fun.
I used to hunt with a guy that had a couple of labs that would track wounded deer. Both have since passed away. But in their time they probably had recovered 30+ deer. Never trained, they just did learned it themselves and were darn good at it. Like killinstuff said, there was no need for them all of the time. Sometimes we would let them track a deer because they enjoyed it, a few times their were very instrumental in finding a deer. They were very handy to have. dino
My yellow lab has been trained for ducks and bloodtrailing just in case the trail is bad.When ever I cooked some deer meat I save the blood as it was defrosting, while he was growing up I made a drag line with a weiner at the end for the reward.He loves to blood trail and I will have no problem in the piney woods and especially the very heavy palmettos I also hunt using him if needed.Kip
Elmer, utilizing dogs for blood trailing is gaining favor in the United States, with many states now allowing the use of leashed (and in some cases off-leash) tracking dogs. Here are a couple of sites that support that:
www.unitedbloodtrackers.org (http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org)
www.born-to-track.com (http://www.born-to-track.com)
A popular breed for trailing wounded deer is the European Wirehaired Dachshund. I think this is due to thier smaller size in using on the leash. My dog Fred came from Darmstadt, Hessen Germany:
www.bismarck-eiche.de (http://www.bismarck-eiche.de)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/cdkruse/fredoct07.jpg)
CKruse
Here in ND the reg reads as follows "It is unlawful to use any animal except horses or mules as an aid in the hunting or taking of big game". Notice it doesn't mention "recovering a wounded animal". I believe this law was left purposely vague.
It's been my experience that our CO's (Conservation Officers) are OK with using a leashed dog to try to recover a wounded deer, if you have first tried and failed on your own.
I'm an amateur gundog trainer (I work with Labs) and when my dogs are in the "polish" phase of their roughly 18-24 month program, I train them to blood trail. It's really just an extension of the phase where I teach the dog to scent trail birds that are down but still able to cover ground, not unusual with a tough bird like a pheasant.
Most Labs just love this work. My 5 year old lab Josie (Jacie's Dakota Gold), working on lead, has found a number of deer for myself & others after other methods have been exhausted.
BTW, I also teach them to find & retrieve lost arrows. Saves me a bunch of work!. Here's my younger Lab Sunny (Gabbriella's Dakota Sunrise)
retrieving arrows. Josie is honoring pretty and waiting her turn...
(http://ndtc3500.stellarnet.com/~jontoni/Arrow2.jpg)
(http://ndtc3500.stellarnet.com/~jontoni/Sending1.jpg)
(http://ndtc3500.stellarnet.com/~jontoni/Retrieve1.jpg)
Using hounds to hunt is an older traditional activity than archery. It continues to be legal across much of the southeast and is a time honored tradition that unfortunately is frequently bad-mouthed by people that have no experience with it whatsoever.
Like most people I know, I prefer tracking and recovering game using my own skills. However if the trail goes cold for me, I will not hesitate to get a dog when one is available. My friend has a beagle that he puts on every recovery just to keep it trained up. It is pretty amazing to watch a dog turn a trail that took me an hour to unravel into a five minute walk in the park.
There is some blood trailing work done in the US. It is mostly through German registered breeds and testing system - tested here through breed clubs like VDD. New York State has passed a blood tracking regulation similar to the German system with certified dogs allowed to track on lead. Other states have a relaxed attitude about the use of dogs for tracking but no official regulation.
You must remember that we in the US are still primative. We did not even have game harvest regulations until the early part of the last century. Hunting is much less controlled here than in Germany.
Blood trailing dogs are allowed here by permit and several game wardens I know here have such dogs themselves. Rather have someone recover a kill with a trailing dog than the animal feed the coyotes. The dogs of course may only be used for recovery of animals not hunting.
There are hound permits for bear hunting here, but I only know of two folks that have them.
Hi from Spain,
I´m agree with you, Gregg, using dogs for all kind of hunting situations is something as old as hunting is.
Personally, I enjoy trainning my dogs for hunting as much as I do while hunting with them.
It is not so easy to have a well trained dog, does not matter if it is for bird hunting, tracking wounded animals, or just as a retriever.
There is a great book written specially for trainning dogs on tracking wounded deer by bow, and it is written by a US writer. The name of that book is "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer", and it is a great book.
I believe that the use of tracking dogs is permitted by the Pope and Young rules, and it should be allowed in some of your states.
Using a tracking dog at your Country, where coyote and other predators live, takes much sense for me.... Of course I undestand that some of you prefer to recover his wounded deer by themselves, but in some cases using a dog is a great and powerfull tool to recover some of those wounded deer that will finally be eaten by a Coyote or other animal.
Trainning a dog, becomes itself a part of my hunting trainning skills, as shooting my bows is.
Best Regards and nice hunt for all.
Emilio.
I have been told, by a game warden. That you cannot use a dog to recover a deer in Iowa. Too bad. Seems like a waste. I also have German Wirehairs. Their good at tracking. (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t150/TRB53/Picture006.jpg)
I know if you sit and read the wisconsin regs most of the laws are written from the perspective that assume the public is going to cheat and poach at every given chance. Backtags, baiting regs, scent use, etc. I have even written an article on our regs about this, published years back in our WTA.
I personally am against the use of dogs as when do you draw the line between recovering a mortally wounded animal and a messed up shot, push the animal with a dog until??? And with Wisconsins attitude of, How do you enforce that, because people will be hunting them that way?
Legal with permit in NY - leashed.
http://www.deersearch.org/
Steve
I believe it is all based upon tradition. period. Sometimes it makes no sense at all.
I imagine that we are currently starting a new tradition, that is, the tendency to use a trained, controlled dog, especially a small dog, to blood trail a wounded animal, but this will take time.
ChuckC
It is legal in Michigan (since 1998) to use a leashed dog to recover a mortally wounded or dead deer. You can not have a firearm or archery equipment in your possession during the tracking.
I have several weimaraners that are trained as bird dogs and a couple have been successfully used on blood trails.
A few years ago Illinois passed a law allowing the use of dogs to track wounded game so long as the dog remains on a leash. I'm sure it may have happened, but I have yet to hear of anyone abusing that privledge.
It seems, at time, our opposition to certain things is based more on emotion than facts.
Jason,
Hunting itself is based more on emotions than in facts, the "fact" is that, for some of us, (obviously my traditions are in some cases different than yours), hunting without dogs (with the exception of stalking), is uncommon.
As I posted before, trainning a good blood tracker is something that takes some years, and in most of the cases, the handler plays a role as important as the one that the dogs plays. It is not a magic tool that you buy in Cabelas....
Of course there are some rules that must be applied to track a wounded deer using a dog, and one of them is that the dog must be leashed (not necessary in Spain but absolutely recommended), and some others.
It is some of the most beautiful things to see how a well trained dog works!!
Regards,
Emilio.
Wirehaired dashounds are a very good trailing dog used for trailing wounded deer in this country. I've seen several work their magic. If they are on a leash you should not have a problem in Texas. I will do whatever it takes to find a wounded deer with a dog or without. :thumbsup:
Bill,
Agree with you, Wirehaired Dashounds are excellent trailing dogs, Bavieras are also excellent, and in some cases I have seen German Pointers and other very good dogs doing this work. However the dog by ltself does not warranteed the final success..... and YES, I am again agree with you, we have to do whatever it takes to find a wounded animal, to recover the meat or to finish his agony.... that is also our responsability as hunters. Of course, this does not mean that if you avoid using a dog to find the wounded animal you are a non responsible hunter, please I am not telling you this.
Regards and nice hunt for all.
Just checked Louisiana regs. you can use a leashed dog to recover wounded game and carry gun or bow during hunting hours.If you use a dog at nite no firearm or bow can be carried after hunting hours.Kip
I have a deutsch drahthaar that I have done some blood trailing training with,however in Iowa you can not use a dog to help recover deer.I would like to see this changed but the wheels turn slow here and I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
Legal in Michigan without permit.
Dog(s) must be leashed at all times.
Must not possess a weapon while using dogs to trail wounded deer.
Back before we hunted "game" for sport, back when a buck was a deer and not also another word for currency, we used dogs. That is why they became man's best companion. When lives were on the line, the hunters brought in the dogs. And something tells me that dogs, like people, were a helluva lot tougher then than they are now. A wolf would've thought twice before trying to steal meat from a hunter's dog. When hunting is for feeding hungry mouths at home, the semantics about how and why go right down the tube. That being said, most people will agree that hunting regulations are a good thing. Hunting deer with a dog is pretty common place here in the south, so its not a far stretch to envision a hunter using a dog to trail wounded game. I don't see what the big deal is. That's what game wardens get paid for, right? If a state has a law that allows dogs to recover deer but not hunt deer, just write tickets to folks who are hunting instead of recoving. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who was doing which.
In Missouri to use a dog to track game.
1. Make a very good effort to recover game by yourself.
2. Call local game warden to tell him you plan on useing a dog, and get permission.
3. Dog must be leashed.
Being from WI I just follow the rules the DNR put down. My yellow Lab (he's white) Bridger will be looking at his 3rd season. To date he has found 8 deer and 2 bear. At least two this year were 24 plus hours after the shot and would not have been found without him.
He's put a new aspect to my deer hunting. I can't tell you what it feels like to have the shooter hugging him after he found their deer.
Bowmania
There is a flip side to the dog coin. I have seen and experienced dogs messing up a blood trail. Every track that goes on top of the game's track obscures part of the puzzle. When blood is found by the drop instead of by drops it is essential to preserve that blood trail. Just playing devil's advocate, not really suggesting that dogs can't help but I try to work out every detail I can before employing a dog.
Where I live/hunt most people own or have access to "blood trailers" which are nothing more than mediocre scent hounds that scatter about searching for any fresh sign including other non-wounded game. When you have a real shore-nuff blood dog though, it's a whole other story. You don't see many of the real thing around here.
The advancement of wounded game trailing dogs in the U.S. owes a lot to the efforts of John Jeanneney from New York. His website was mentioned earlier in this thread: born-to-track.com (http://www.born-to-track.com/john.htm) . His book, Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer (http://www.born-to-track.com/book/order-info.htm) is one of the finest pieces of writing on tracking wounded game and on dog training generally. He has been instrumental in efforts to enact legislation on this subject in several states, beginning with New York more than thirty years ago. And he's a helluva nice guy.
Thank you for your answers.
In some parts of Germany it is not only legal but almost impossible to push the game out of its cover to place a clean shot.
Stalking is very seldom in Germany because of our very small hunting areas. There are to much people, to many towns and roads in this small country. Hunting is normally done from the stand.
These are not removable tree stands but stands fixed to the ground.
There are many areas in Germany where only a driven hunt on big game makes it possible to get a chance for a clean kill. The game, especially European wild boar as well as roe deer, fallow deer and red deer is "pushed" out of its cover. But this should done very calm with short-legged dogs so that the game will not pass the hunters with high speed.
It is intented to just get the game on their legs and move form one cover to another so that it can be identified as shootable or not.
When hunting wild boars we normally do not shoot the biggest one but start with the smallest and youngest. To kill the adult femals may cause that the leading female boar is killed which is responsible to start and even control the mating time within the small group/herd of pics.
It is the old grandma who avoids an explosion by overpopulating the area with young pics.
In some areas we have real problems with overpopulation of wild boar. They are destroying the fields and meadows which is very expensive to the hunter who has (I do not now the exact word for "hiring" or "renting" land") rented the right to hunt in a certain area.
Interesting for me is also your rising affinity to European hunting dogs like our Drahthaar and the Dachshund.
Even our Weimaraner seems to be very popular to some hunters in the U.S.
Love the pics of the dogs getting the arrow! That's great. Don't know if it's legal or not here in Oklahoma, but I know they do it in Texas. My buddy is a guide on the Santa Cruz ranch (which is part of the King). He has dogs specifically for trailing wounded deer and they find 'em about every time. I have used my little mut to blood trail a wounded coyote that a friend shot. He wasn't trained to do it, but natuarally went right to the animal and found spots of blood that we couldn't even see w/out getting on our hands and knees.