Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: insttech1 on June 14, 2019, 09:26:38 PM
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I've been away for a while. Used to shoot Border, Robertson, Widows, Morrison etc... I've been looking at those, especially Border, and others like Fox High Sierra, Foley, Wes Wallace, Stalker, Dryad, Blacktail and more.
Other than a full ILF setup, I'm wondering if any of those listed, or others, have a good solid reputation for stability, higher brace heights, and minimal stacking at longer draws?
Thanks much!
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To the ones you listed, I would add Bob Lee, Schafer Silvertip, Toelke, Dakota, and Hoyt. The Robertson Wolfer and LaClare Shrew are particularly known for minimal stacking at longer draws. There are probably many others, but these are the ones I’m personally familiar with.
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I’ve owned a bunch also and the one that fits your description best of all I’ve owned or shot is a 62” silvertip it is just plain smooth as silk and doesn’t stack. Whisper quiet too. Another one to add to the list is Tall Tines.
John
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Thanks much for the info. The Lee I'm familiar with but not the others. Appreciate it.
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I’ve got both a Wes Wallace and a Pronghorn three pc. Both are 64”, an at 31” draw very smooth, no stack. They aren’t for sale, lol. Good luck.
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Thanks for the info gents!
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Tough to beat a Black Widow, Stalker makes a real nice 3 pc. also.
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Oops, my Pronghorn is a longbow. Sorry.
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I would recommend Black Widow but you asked for smooth, accurate, and stable.
Now, if you want smooth, stable, accurate, fast, and tough as nails...I’d recommend Black Widow.
(PSA or PCH....not a fan of the PMA...but that’s just me)
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Ahhh so some of you like widows lol! Well I did too. That's why I'm still considering one. It wasn't as smooth as my Border but it was a great bow.
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I wish BW would put a recurve grip on the PSR. Or make a short riser version of the PTF. Or a KB without the horns.
Tedd
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Aren't those all 1 piece?
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PTF and KB are one piece. PSR is one or two (sleeve system)
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X models with boo cores are smoother. Biggest difference is between PL and PLX. Not a major difference in the recurves....at least to me.
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Have either owned or have run arrows thru most every bow mentioned.
Many great options available.
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Part of the game is the waiting time : and inside that you have the estimated time before shipping and the real time. Border, Black widow, Toelke are the best. Reasonable to short wait and very rarely behind schedule. Others will have a sub 12 monthes wait but you get the bow as stated and for some other bowyer (some have been listed in the topic) you can add a few monthes and a bunch of emails to the expected time
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From what you stated I would recommend TallTines, Schafer Silvertips, and Zipper. These are my personal 3 favorite bowyers, but there a lot of good ones out there!
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The Bear Kodiak TD meets all the requirements. If you haven’t shot one try to.
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Tall Tines very smooth and accurate.
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I'm only privy to Robertson & Stalker 3pc'ers personally. My hunting partner has had a Chastain Wapiti 3pc since '95/96 that i've both shot and hunted with occasionally over the yrs.
For reference I have a 29-1/2" draw.
The Robertson I have is an older Prairie Falcon. A simple 62" Cocobolo riser w/Red Elm veneers #[email protected]". For a bow made back in '92-'94 range, It's smooth throughout it's draw range, not overly finicky on arrow grain range and a muffled thunk once released. Anyone who has tried it, says the same thing.. it just points and shoots well.
Stalker Stickbow - Coyote FXT 62" 45@28" marked, scales #50 at my 29.5" draw. It is a Myrtle/Claro Walnut combination with the newer G10 I-Beam inserted into the riser. Brace is around 7-1/2". Another whisper quiet Bow that has a very repeatable grip. A quiet thwack is all that's heard once released. Limbs are Static tip design.
Wapiti - 60" #55@28" i believe my friends model is an early variation of Chastains' current TD Recurve. He had the grip shaped a little smaller and more like a pistol grip to suit his small hands, i struggle to find grip consistancy with it personally and thus my vertical portion of grouping is usually off. What it does do, is send arrows downrange with some audible authority. I'm guessing it's due to the tip design. We have managed to quiet it down considerably with Yarn silencers, but its still noticeable. Also it does start to stack as you hit that 28-my 29+ DL.
Don't think you could go wrong with either the Robertson or Stalker really.
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Big Jim makes a 3pc takedown too, and does he ever have good wood! :o :laughing:
I’ve only ever shot Blacktails and Bob Lees. The Bob Lee was a great bow; I got it while waiting 14 months for my Blacktail (15 years ago; wait times are now 6-8months). I think we are in the Golden Era of bowyers. So many craftsmen making beautiful performing bows!
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Wes Wallace Mentor 3 piece bows are great shooters! I HIGHLY recommend getting one.
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I would add Cari-Bow to that list as well. Abe makes a very nice, smooth recurve (as well as his longbows)!
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I can't believe no one has mentioned Palmer yet.
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I would put Abe Penner's EX model recurves up against any of the above. Abe makes a great bow that is a top of the line performer with good looks and fine craftmanship. :deadhorse:
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Excellent info everyone and thanks! A couple names popped up that I hadn't considered, and one or two that I don't remember being around much maybe 12 years ago.
I appreciate all the info!!
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Another Wes Wallace Mentor fan here.
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I would recommend Black Widow but you asked for smooth, accurate, and stable.
Now, if you want smooth, stable, accurate, fast, and tough as nails...I’d recommend Black Widow.
(PSA or PCH....not a fan of the PMA...but that’s just me)
Black widows are not fast.
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Ok buddy, what ever you say.
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Ok buddy, what ever you say.
I dont mean any offense, they are great bows: well crafted, good looking, quiet and definitely money well spent. But they are not fast bows. If you want a fast bow get a morrison, border, or blacktail and you will see 200+ fps at 9gpp.
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Ok buddy, what ever you say.
I dont mean any offense, they are great bows: well crafted, good looking, quiet and definitely money well spent. But they are not fast bows. If you want a fast bow get a morrison, border, or blacktail and you will see 200+ fps at 9gpp.
I didn't know speed was everything?? :saywhat:
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Ok buddy, what ever you say.
I dont mean any offense, they are great bows: well crafted, good looking, quiet and definitely money well spent. But they are not fast bows. If you want a fast bow get a morrison, border, or blacktail and you will see 200+ fps at 9gpp.
I didn't know speed was everything?? :saywhat:
Its not. They were just talking about speed.
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Just FYI, with 9gpp arrows, you’ll void the Blacktail warranty. Plus they’re harder to quiet down. Heavier arrows are quieter (in my experience).
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Widows are fast! if you are going to make a comment like "Black Widows are not fast" lets hear some experience big shooter. I currently don't shoot one but have owned 2 of them and will probably have another one day. In my experience as compared to the other bows you mentioned they are just as fast.
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another great option not listed is a Wengerd right at the top of the heap with all the big boys.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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My next bow will be a Predator. My son has one in 62" that I love to shoot. It is smooth, accurate, and fast!
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9 gpp, which has or had been AMO standard for years is going to void someones warranty?
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9 gpp, which has or had been AMO standard for years is going to void someones warranty?
I had the same question. In my experience 9 gpp is a conservative weight to shoot out of any bow I’ve ever had.
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Blacktailbow warranty is ok with 9 gpp arrows. At least it is what they advocate on their website.
BW 3 pièces recurve are good reliable bows. Very average speed wise though.
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Just FYI, with 9gpp arrows, you’ll void the Blacktail warranty. Plus they’re harder to quiet down. Heavier arrows are quieter (in my experience).
This, from the Blacktail website: The Blacktail Warranty requires that you use arrows of at least 8 grains per pound of draw weight.
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My next bow will be a Predator. My son has one in 62" that I love to shoot. It is smooth, accurate, and fast!
I have one in bocote with the carbon foam limbs. Took awhile to tune properly but i enjoy shooting at a lot. The handle is super high, to the point where the fletching sometimes cut into your bow hand, thats good for instinctive though as it shoots where you point it. Only thing i dont like about it is the limb system, you need tools to take down the limb bolts which makes absolutely no sense. Luckily there are replacement bolts on 3rivers that are antler burr on the head, so it can be taken down by hand. Otherwise its quiet and has some zip. Im shooting #55 @ 29 with 450 spine victory carbon trads (with the outserts and 100g tip total arrow weight is around 500 grains), ill have to chrono it next time i head to the shop.
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I have 13 Bear T/Ds hanging on my wall. I feel that is an unlucky number, so there is another on the way. :bigsmyl:
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Just FYI, with 9gpp arrows, you’ll void the Blacktail warranty. Plus they’re harder to quiet down. Heavier arrows are quieter (in my experience).
This, from the Blacktail website: The Blacktail Warranty requires that you use arrows of at least 8 grains per pound of draw weight.
I guess I’m remembering what I interpreted is the minimum. The rest of the statement creekwood quoted is “A minimum of 9-10 grains per pound of draw weight (at your draw length) is recommended for arrow selection.” That makes two different specified minimums, so ye pays yer money and ye takes yer chances. I choose to err on the side of caution.
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I have 13 Bear T/Ds hanging on my wall. I feel that is an unlucky number, so there is another on the way. :bigsmyl:
13s are lucky! So are multiples especially 26. Lots of family birthdays on both dates.
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I don't believe anybody mentioned the new Bear TD bow yet. After reading Charlie Lamb's post about this bow, I managed to acquire one and it is every bit of what Charlie has found it to be. See posting at here: http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=167143.0
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While not as popular as some mentioned I’d take a look at Bob Sarrels bows. His designs are truly top notch.
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I am currently shooting Border Covert Hunter with Hex 8 limbs and a Morrison ILF with Max 6 limbs.
The Hex 8 limbs have very little weight increase through the last two inches of draw. The Max 6 has more and reminds me of the Border Hex 7 or 7.5
Both being "super" curves and carbon construction, they are fast and consistent.
Right now I am trying to decide if I should sell one rig. I don't know that I can justify that much high end equipment.
Send me an email and we can talk.
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I am currently shooting Border Covert Hunter with Hex 8 limbs and a Morrison ILF with Max 6 limbs.
The Hex 8 limbs have very little weight increase through the last two inches of draw. The Max 6 has more and reminds me of the Border Hex 7 or 7.5
Both being "super" curves and carbon construction, they are fast and consistent. Both run over 200 fps with 9 gpp. Border is a tad faster. Where they really shine is with real heavy arrows. Last year I hunted with a 53# Covert Hunter and 585 grain arrows. I still got 188 fps
Right now I am trying to decide if I should sell one rig. I don't know that I can justify that much high end equipment.
Send me an email and we can talk.
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Everytime I buy the latest and greatest, I find myself going back to my Bear T/D, it does everything you mentioned!
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My old Blacktail Elite VL was a fine shooter and bit tricky to quiet down.
However my new 62" Sitka is the nicest thing I've ever shot. The balance and feel when drawing and shooting is way better than I can shoot it. Speed, on my chrono shooting 9.7 gpp I'm averaging 180 fps. with acceptable noise.
On top of that it's by far the prettiest bow I've ever held
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Ahhh so some of you like widows lol! Well I did too. That's why I'm still considering one. It wasn't as smooth as my Border but it was a great bow.
I’ve had a few widows. Newer ones but not real new as of today. (2004-2011) They’re heavy, slow and stacked like hell at 27-1/2”. Not everyone likes em and imo you’d do much better elsewhere
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Striker bows have short risers and can be had with longer limbs making them very smooth....my experience is that they’re enviably quick and very quiet, I’ve just started using a win & win black wolf ilf and I’ve got to say for a reasonably priced hugely adjustable take down its both fast and incredibly quiet with a solid carbon riser that leaves almost no hand shock ...... a lot of the issues my friends and I seem to have had in the past are surrounding good matching arrows - I find a couple of hours shooting different makes of carbon shafts when you’re buying the bow really gives you a good impression of how forgiving the bow is....on the other theme here I have a really old widow that is incredibly slow but so beautiful that it’s a joy to shoot (and always causes massive interest at shoots in england where you just don’t see them that often)
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To answer your original question. Blacktails have a great reputation. They are a work of art, and very stable.
My personal favorite is a 66" Elite VL. I can shoot it with a 30" draw, with zero stacking.
I would also not rule out Silvertips. Great reputation and customer service. Hard to beat a Schafer.
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I would also say Blacktail Bows! I have owned several and used and shot almost all of the other great bows out there... Never shot or liked one better. They are smooth, fast, stable and have amazing craftsmanship... Check them out...
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Here's one of best shooting bows I have shot... Blacktail 66 in recurve...