Post by: huntryx on May 01, 2019, 09:53:26 AM
I have been listening to some podcasts lately, and two of them stood in stark contrast, and were a bit troubling. The first was on I believe TradQuest, a great, rare interview with Dr. Don Thomas, one of the most articulate members of our cohort. Among other things he expressed his pleasure with all the new bowhunters joining our ranks. A good sign for the future of traditional archery, and I heartily agree. At ETAR last summer, the numbers of young and younger archers were truly impressive, as was their evident enthusiasm. They have new heroes, too, most of whom I have never heard of but maybe will as time passes.
Now for the troubling part. I downloaded and started to listen to a new podcaster (young fellow in his early 20s I think), his podcast is called "Bowhunting Soul". Only 4 episodes so far, but the latest featured this young man, proudly stating that he was drinking beer at the time of the recording and this apparently gave him the courage to talk about something "that needs to be talked about". He went off on a rant about older traditional bowhunters ("curmudgeons" he called them "from the 80s") who have said that the newer, more technical approach to shooting the longbow or recurve is not really "traditional". He put it this way, and I quote "they act like the arrows get there with Fred Bear's breath and unicorn piss". REALLY? He liked the idea of that so much he repeated it a few times.
I struggled to remember my own lack of wisdom, patience and thoughtfulness at that age...... were it not for those of us who have persisted with traditional equipment for so many years, supported traditional organizations and vendors, fought for extended seasons, guarded the history which formed us and continues to INform us, where would we be, where would the newcomers be?
I would advocate for respect for our history and elders, and also for differences of opinion without nasty commentary. Or maybe we should start a new group, "Hybrid Archery". In this new group any new technical advantage would be applauded, no history valued, taught or learned and......oh, we already went though that didn't we, a time or two?
My two cents: "Dance with the one that brung ya".
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 10:11:58 AM
such diatribe is a sign of our times, both as trad bowhunters and the direction too many want this country to end up. there is a solid link between our actions as Americans and what will be the future of tradtional bowhunting, or any hunting for that matter.
we should maintain our composure and do our best to present traditional bowhunting in as positive a manner as possible. that and avoiding the "bowhunting souls" of the media.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 10:24:43 AM
Is there some reason you didn't name the other guy's name or the name of the Podcast?.... Please provide.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 10:30:38 AM
his latest podcast is titled "beware the trad police" is just a rant over things he imagines, doesn't understand real trad bowhunters, nor anything about the origins of "modern archery". someone must have yanked his chain for the attitude he portrays, but his lack of knowledge about trad archery/bowhunting is legion.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 10:53:10 AM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 10:59:54 AM
i posted this to his facebook page ...
having been involved in all phases and types of archery since the early 1950's, from longbow hunting to olympic recurve to the first allen and pse compounds that were offered in the mid 60's, your last podcast about "beware the trad police" is just chock full of nonsense. unfortunately, you don't fully understand the sport and as a result you do trad archery and bowhunting in general nothing but a disservice, particularly to the newbies or those coming over from the wheelbow side. if you wish to really learn about traditional bowhunting and support, and promote it's future, join www.TradGang.com and get an education.
i'm sure that'll piss him off, but that's both his fault and problem.
Post by: mnolletti on May 01, 2019, 11:19:22 AM
The Push, and other guys now are doing great things centered around aiming methods, psychotriggers, this and that, but I know you would never find them disrespectful in their presentation of new ways of thinking about traditional archery. In fact the opposite, as they have had Barry Wensel and other so-called "old timers" on their podcast, right along with the guys doing exceptional things in the newer generation and in the target archery world.
Post by: GCook on May 01, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
Also I not advocate having to be intoxicated to speak my mind. As a matter of fact I prefer to be in control of my brain at those points and anger or frustration can taint you words and intent as based as alcohol.
I also believe in following the rules and try to do that even if I dont agree with them.
But in all honesty the "trad police" is a real downer. The whole attitude and attacks from too many trad shooters is negatively impacting new shooters.
I've seen it on other forums and this one as well.
Demeaning and belittling comments are made to people all the time on here who disagree with the old timers. If one tries to explain or defend their position they are either brow beaten into submission, have their posts deleted and get a chastising or they get banned. I know some well capable single string shooters who gave up on this sight because of the attitude of a very few here. Of course those my way or the highway folks on on other sights as well but the vast majority of them aren't the owners and dont have the power to ban someone because their point of view doesn't perfectly align.
Most guys here are welcoming, helpful and knowledgeable however and over the years I've learned the wheat and the chaff grow together and you have to learn to glean the good from the not so good.
If you can let things go and not look to be offended most times you wont be.
I'm pretty sure this post will get deleted and next time I go to log in it wont work but I just thought maybe I could speak my mind soberly without offending anyone too much.
Keep shooting and have a great day folks.
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Post by: GCook on May 01, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
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Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 11:46:47 AM
Post by: Pine on May 01, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Our hobby is like many other hobbies, there are many different degrees of just how deep you want to go.
If you want to shoot a bow with a metal riser with carbon core limbs with the latest string material pushing a carbon arrow tipped with a solid one piece machined arrow head, that's fine.
Or maybe you shoot only a self bow strung with natural fibers you have harvested yourself, self nocked arrows with tied on fletching tipped with a flint arrowhead, that's great too.
But shair what you do with fellow archers your passion but don't tell them they are doing it wrong.
Now if someone is struggling and asking questions, help them along and point out that there's many diffrent ways to enjoy traditional archery.
Shoot often and have fun......
Graps
Post by: GCook on May 01, 2019, 12:28:45 PM
Like some will dispar a single string shooter who uses a mechanical release or a fixed sight on the bow. It's all relative to what makes it possible for you to be successful in and enjoy the experience. But just because it is different from me doesn't make me more or less trad than you.
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Post by: styksnstryngs on May 01, 2019, 12:36:18 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 12:42:24 PM
TradGang.com is 100% totally devoted to traditional bowhunting. The 3 goals of Tradgang.com are as follows ...
1. To offer a free public access website for those that love the sport of hunting with traditional archery equipment - i.e., selfbows, longbows, and recurves.
2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting.
3. To offer methods of sharing contact information and site links for traditional archery manufacturers, vendors, services and organizations - good folks that have their hearts and souls poured into the sport.
if you feel there is a thread or post that's not in the spirit of traditional bowhunting, or violates our rules, let any admin know so that we can review and possibly take action.
the bottom line as i see it is that we can be so good at shooting ourselves in the foot and harm our sport rather than bolster it. case in point is mr. oruc's podcast.
Post by: YosemiteSam on May 01, 2019, 12:50:40 PM
Older folks have often already hammered out some of this nonsense and have settled on what works best for them. Young folks can save themselves a lot of effort by just following the advice of the older guys every now and then. Older guys, thankfully, can usually disregard whatever the younger guys are saying because they already have something that works.
Talk is cheap. Young guys with a beer are the very definition of loud-mouthed behavior that most older guys quit doing in their 30s. For some people, it takes longer to realize that wisdom.
Of course, if they're out trying to get noticed, then they can sometimes have an incentive to piss people off (shock-jocks, talk show hosts, popular artists, etc.). In that case, the cruelest thing you can do to them is to simply dismiss them & carry about your day.
Post by: Trenton G. on May 01, 2019, 01:41:03 PM
Just seeing the division between compound shooters and trad shooters is worrying enough. If we start to have a division within the trad shooters, then that will only make things worse.
Post by: GCook on May 01, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
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Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 02:56:47 PM
Guy pods bashing old timers...and Tradgang takes a beating. :biglaugh:
I'm sure this has to do with the latest post about irresponsible practices and referring to compound bows. :readit:
I'm not sure that you new people realize... For 16 years we haven't allowed compound talk..... No we do not bash compounds..... We just dont allow them or guns, spears, crossbows, throwing knives, etc....
So you new people don't go sticking that dagger in our back :nono:
You don't know a fifth of the trash we pull or have to put up with. :readit:
Post by: Steve Clandinin on May 01, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
Post by: ron w on May 01, 2019, 03:40:15 PM
Post by: Todd Cook on May 01, 2019, 03:57:03 PM
I'm the president of the Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia. We're fortunate to not see too much of this sort of thing, but we definately have our share of opinions. I shoot a longbow with wood arrows, but I don't personally have a problem with the metal risers and foam limbs, etc. What I really believe in is the SPIRIT of traditional bowhunting. Keep it simple. Don't try to take such long shots at game; try to become a better hunter and get closer.
Infighting won't solve anything. This past weekend we had 11 guys hunting in the river swamps of south GA together. Mostly instinctive longbow guys, but a couple of gap shooters and one guy that uses a release with a Black Widow recurve.( He had several fingers cut off in an industrial accident and has no choice). Couple of us like Michelob and a couple Busch. :campfire: But heck, we all get along just fine.
If you are drawn to traditional bowhunting, you probably are opinionated by default. Seems to go with the territory. Embrace it. Rugged individualists forged this great nation of ours. But don't beat up others because they think differently. Go hunting with them. If they use a stick and string without wheels, it's all good.
I may be partial because they're my friends, but I hunt with some of the best to ever pull a string back. RC and Chris Spikes are just as nice in person as they seem on here. Dendy Cromer, Crispin Henry, I could go on and on. Truly good at what they do. But they don't bash folks. They're too busy helping them.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 04:01:04 PM
Everyone that bashes Tradgang should start their own forum and see how long they put up with the trash it generates :readit:
It's a lot easier to point fingers than take out the garbage.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 01, 2019, 04:08:17 PM
Post by: Grouse01 on May 01, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 05:02:30 PM
Can tell you what head to use, what string, what arrow, what feathers....
After years of proclamation....admitted when asked....he'd never killed a deer or anything but ONE rabbit.
Nick Name Initials....AFC
Same as above but was giving advice on what head for GRIZZLY BEARS.....Never killed anything and was 17 years old.
Initials OA....
Claimed broadheads didn't need to be sharpened.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 05:09:22 PM
JJ...
Claimed you didn't need a nock point
JM...
Claimed you only needed to take one arrow with you...funny he'd only killed one deer.
NN..
Claimed you didn't need to worry about if you couldn't sharpen broadhead....Could not provide a hero pic
Post by: Pine on May 01, 2019, 06:24:16 PM
Post by: BAK on May 01, 2019, 06:55:17 PM
At least being the moderator you can tell them to go pound sand if need be. And good for you when you do.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2019, 08:00:23 PM
Although he has zero experience decided he's going to kill something with an arrow with no fletching just to prove it can be done and 'report back'.
BB....bashes multiple well known and truly experienced bowhunters.
The late Dean Toges use to post here. Glenn St Charles use to have someone read Tradgang to him, Ron LaClair, Gene and Barry, Biggie Hoffman, Denny Sturgis and Denny Jr, Ryan Rothar, Charlie Lamb, Mike Mitten, Don Thomas, Ted Fry, Matt Schuster, Fred Asbel, The late Jack Howard all are .
members here...
I don't think you will ever again find a platform with this many greats and this amount of 'wealth of information' about trad bowhunting.
Rob, Terry and Company will take the beating on behalf of the sport....pile it in us.
Post by: Sam McMichael on May 01, 2019, 08:15:11 PM
Post by: stik&string on May 01, 2019, 08:24:30 PM
Rob, Terry and Company will take the beating on behalf of the sport....pile it in us.
You guys are awesome and do not get enough credit for what you do! :notworthy:
Post by: huntryx on May 02, 2019, 07:04:30 AM
The other thing is..... Terry I am worried about you....don't you have anything better to do than keep track of these people? :biglaugh:
Post by: monterey on May 02, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
Post by: Aaron Proffitt 2 on May 02, 2019, 11:28:40 AM
Post by: bigbadjon on May 02, 2019, 12:10:19 PM
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on May 02, 2019, 02:41:22 PM
Post by: huntryx on May 02, 2019, 02:49:30 PM
Post by: 1Arrow1Kill on May 02, 2019, 04:38:59 PM
I LOVE to learn, so I force myself to listen. I try to not filter out the words of those having different views as listening reinforces that I don't agree with their position and I need not change mine.
I LOVE to teach, but only to those who want to learn. My few pearls don't get cast before swine.
I try to save my opinion for only those who ask my opinion. I've learned that opinions are like butts . . . everyone has one, most of 'em stink. Bottom Line - I've found that trying to use my 2 ears twice as much as my 1 mouth has served me well.
I also believe in the '5% RULE' - 5% of any grouping of people are fools. I try to avoid the 5%. Think about it, 5% of those at work, 5% of those in church, 5% of those drinking at any watering hole, 5% of those posting here, even 5% of extended family are people you just don't care to be around. You might be better off trying to avoid them, if you aren't already. The young blogger is most likely part of the 5%. ( The dilemma: Trying to not be a part of anyone else's 5% )
OK, time for me to shut up and listen. Think I'll grab the Blacktail and fling-a-few.
Post by: BAK on May 02, 2019, 06:27:20 PM
Post by: mj seratt on May 03, 2019, 01:29:58 AM
I tried a.compound one year. Didn't like it, and went straight back to my recurves. At the same time, I hunt with a couple of compound hunters who are as ethical as anyone you can come up with. It's not the bow, it's the hunter. At the same time, I don't think crossbows belong in any Archery season.
Murray
Post by: 96ssportsp on May 03, 2019, 10:18:06 AM
Being new to archery, Trad at that, only been shooting 6 years and 53 years old. I was approached by James at Tradquest a couple of years ago at the Western States Traditional rondevous, He was just launching Tradquest. I did not even know what a podcast was, like a lot of folks stated here. I do drive a bunch for work, and podcasts have become my media of choice.
Instead of focusing on this new guy, never heard of him before, take a chance and listen to James and Bob at Tradquest, Steve Angell at Traditional Outdoors, the guys at The Push, etc. The gentlemen they are pulling out of the Trad community and visiting with are true diamonds in the rough!! Most are honoring to the previous generation that paved the way before us. This new guy will hopefully get educated, or fail. The market has a way of eating up people. Just my .02 cents. Scott.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 03, 2019, 10:35:46 AM
all that matters are "two sticks and a string".
how those components are put together, what accessories are employed, and how to make them all work together, is all subjectively up to the user.
we are concerned about how they're used, from both ethical and legal standpoints.
Post by: 96ssportsp on May 03, 2019, 10:59:55 AM
When I talk I teach - When I listen I learn.
I LOVE to learn, so I force myself to listen. I try to not filter out the words of those having different views as listening reinforces that I don't agree with their position and I need not change mine.
I LOVE to teach, but only to those who want to learn. My few pearls don't get cast before swine.
I try to save my opinion for only those who ask my opinion. I've learned that opinions are like butts . . . everyone has one, most of 'em stink. Bottom Line - I've found that trying to use my 2 ears twice as much as my 1 mouth has served me well.
I also believe in the '5% RULE' - 5% of any grouping of people are fools. I try to avoid the 5%. Think about it, 5% of those at work, 5% of those in church, 5% of those drinking at any watering hole, 5% of those posting here, even 5% of extended family are people you just don't care to be around. You might be better off trying to avoid them, if you aren't already. The young blogger is most likely part of the 5%. ( The dilemma: Trying to not be a part of anyone else's 5% )
OK, time for me to shut up and listen. Think I'll grab the Blacktail and fling-a-few.
Oh how I wish I had your wisdom and self control!!
Post by: GCook on May 03, 2019, 12:03:05 PM
What we chose to shoot is just that. Our choice. It doesn't make us right or wrong. Those who choose to demean other to make themselves and their choice seem superior are the "trad police" and bullies.
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Post by: Rob DiStefano on May 03, 2019, 12:13:58 PM
Rob I have to respectfully disagree. When people make unapologetic comments like "traditional bowhunters are the only real hunters" or "your not a real traditional archer unless you shoot wood arrows" etc then those folks are trying to define what is right for everyone. It's all archery. Yes we want to be legal and ethical. But being a jack wagon to someone and putting them down because the choose to shoot a different way or equipment than you is wrong.
What we chose to shoot is just that. Our choice. It doesn't make us right or wrong. Those who choose to demean other to make themselves and their choice seem superior are the "trad police" and bullies.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
yer actually agreeing with me, that kinda talk is exactly what that character's podcast was espousing and what trad gang will not tolerate.
show me trad gang "trad police" posts so i can fix 'em.
Post by: wingnut on May 03, 2019, 12:21:55 PM
I don't happen to agree with a lot of subjects on podcasts and as a result they don't get listened too. Others I like and learn a bunch.
Mike
Post by: blacktailbob on May 03, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
One of my favorite buttons on the tv remote is "mute". Very handy on the pc, pod cast etc. along with delete.
Seems like for the most part everyone here is like family. We don't always agree but we do stick together.
Post by: GCook on May 03, 2019, 02:19:23 PM
It's just a state of mind. Be oj ng short and ugly with a smart mouth I've learned to take a punch anyhow.
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Post by: 1Arrow1Kill on May 03, 2019, 02:34:33 PM
Post by: OkKeith on May 03, 2019, 03:32:42 PM
“There's no such thing as bad publicity.” P. T. Barnum
That's the thing about podcasts, any dude or gal with some recording equipment can put together a "show" and send it to the masses. I think its the equivalent of slinging an entire pot full of noodles at the wall to see what might stick. I would be interested to see how many listeners he might have... half a dozen before the rant? How many now? Sensationalist Journalism. Cry loud the most ridiculous and people will always listen, even just so they can argue with it.
I guess it depends on how you define "young" but I know lots of stickbow archers in their early development. Some are old in age but young in experience. Some are young in age but have many years of experience. I have the attitude that poor behavior should be shunned and good behavior rewarded.
OkKeith
Post by: Jim Wright on May 05, 2019, 01:10:05 PM
Post by: Ken Taylor on May 05, 2019, 01:59:09 PM
Along with traditional bowhunting, you usually find traditional values... or at least you used to.
I have a hard time fitting into and accepting this "new" society we find ourselves surrounded by. Change is inevitable, but we know not all change is good.
Reading what that proudly ignorant podcast host had to say reminds me of the late George Jones's song "Who's Gonna Fill These Shoes?".
Post by: pavan on May 05, 2019, 02:40:50 PM