Two bows equal weight, one is a Pronghorn one is a Hill, both are tuned to what I would call perfect or near perfect by paper and bare shaft. I'm extraordinarily more consistent with the Pronghorn and I can't figure out why, I'd say grip but the Pronghorn is a fairly straight grip as is the Hill. I know Hills have a style of shooting but is it all that different to account for inconsistency?
Could be that, could be the arrow.
Have to agree, if the Hill is not center shot then arrow spine is more critical. Same arrows may or may not shoot well from both bows. :coffee: :thumbsup: :campfire:
Different arrows for each, both bows tuned separately to
their respective arrows....it's making me mental sometimes
I had the same issue. Realized it was the grip. Some guys can shoot that straight grip very well, I an'it one of them. God knows I tried, just didn't work out.
Interesting read as I too struggle with consistency with my Hill style Winterhawk Archery bow. I sure do enjoy shooting it though, so it keeps me practicing. I do shoot my bows without straight grips better, so maybe for me its a comfort thing.
I hate to think it's the grip since the Pronghorn is somewhat close but definitely has a better locator point and is more rounded so feels better and more consistent in my hand overall. I enjoy shooting the Hill a bunch, especially with cedars but man it's like some days it's there and other days it's more of a struggle.
I can't shoot a Hill style for squat, as much as I wanted to and tried several times. The locator type grip of most R/D's suits me a lot better.
Didnt read anything but the title... could be the grip of the RD and/or the higher brace hight
In addition to differences in the grip, it's likely that the Hill is physically lighter than the Pronghorn. A bow that's very light in the hand, can be harder to hold on target. Too, the Pronghorn is probably faster than the Hill bow (at the same draw weight). So that might cause differences in in accuracy. The draw force curve is also a little different. The Hill likely builds weight a little faster toward the end of the draw I.e., stacks a bit more. Any one of these things can account for differences in accuracy. Put them all together and it can be substantial.
It could be your hand placement on the grip, A Hill style bow likes to have the grip pressure equally across the palm. if you lift the heel, the bow can react differently. The Howard Hill grip, like little bird that you don't want to injure, but you don't want it to get away either, let the bow sink in and find its spot. Although I find if the bow is settled properly, baring down on the grip,, a bit of white knuckling does not change much, if anything, in the arrow flight. As when shooting a marauding bunny rabbit escaping to the Nederlands. If it is gripped properly the bow will not torque. Total arm rigidity. I use to have a shooting machine, my target bows would blow nocks at twenty yards with the bow vertical, I could then and still can shoot tighter groups by hand than the shooting machine could, shooting with about a 2 o'clock cant. I find that shooting wood arrows that are no longer than they need to be come out of my non-center shot longbows the cleanest. I am always pleased with how nice net arrow length cedars fly out of my duo shooters. Of courses, a broad head cannot be net length, but getting as close as possible helps. My favorite longbows for hunting are 3/8" out from center.left and right. I think the bent bow arm and Hill bird grip allows the bow to get out of the way of the arrow when the release is made. It is simple physics, The string drives at the center of the bow, the resistance to motion creates a bend into the bow with non-center shot bows. That force pushes the bow away from the arrow just a little bit. I have had videos taken of me shooting, that show that bend into the longbow, whether it is a finger release or a center caliper mechanical release. Allowing that action to take place gives a quicker arrow recovery and thus, more consistent accuracy. If in doubt go to the John Schulz videos and do exactly as he says and demonstrates. What he says is every bit, if not more, important than what he shows. Don't change anything and do not add anything.
Excellent thoughts and suggestions guys, gotta love it :campfire:
My Pronghorn is very easy to shoot as well and I am very pleased with the way it shoots.
I've had several Pronghorns. They didn't stick around mostly cause specs were not just right. But I always thought they were consistent, well mannered shooting bows.....
Some bows just fit your hand and shooting style better.... After many bows and many years I can shoot about anything. The first 10 years was a struggle and a lot of bow chasing....
That's for sure. I tried to shoot my recurve yesterday after a layoff. I wrestled with it until I gave up and took out my Morningstar. Every bow has a way that it likes to be shot, when one finds a bow that matches his shooting tendencies that is one to keep.
It's probably the grip. I've found that I shoot a certain grip type better more so than a bow type.
I shoot a recurve much better, or at least consistently, than anything but for some reason I just reallllly want to stick with a longbow.
It seems that my r/d bows within a given range of poundage seem to shoot flatter than my Hill bows of the same draw.
As general rule a good R/D has had about a 5 pound advantage over my ASLs. A 50 pound R/D will shoot the same arrow as fast as my 55 pound ASL. My R/Ds have all been Robertsons, in some cases it was more than that. However, when shoot at fluid speed, like when being attacked by a charging cottontail from hell, I miss more often with the R/Ds. Ask yourself this, when under attack and the only things you have is the pocket knife in pants and the stave in your hand to defend yourself from a marauding beast, do you want a tinker toy R/D or a manly 68" thick cored bamboo stave? Just the other evening a deadly possum was feeding on a split butternut squash that I threw out. I thought the friendly squirrels would like the seeds, I never thought about a possum. Lucky for him i was only armed with fear and running shoes.
:biglaugh:
Never, EVER, interrupt a feeding opossum. Especially when eating any type of squash plant. Those things are killers!
:help:
Sorry Went off on feeding dangerous animals, but stating that you shoot recurves more consistent explains a lot. There is absolutely no reason to not like mild R/d bows, but bows like Robertsons do have the typical low grip dish available. They can be shot just like an ASL for the most part. I find that I shoot them better if I have more of a stall at anchor in my draw and release tempo from my normal form. It is not much but it is there. it could be that my one remaining Robertson is only 62" long and I may need to do the same with a shorter ASL. If you went to full blown John Schulz stile form, you may find that the recurve will not be as comfortable as it was. When shooting with low wrist grip, think little bird like Hill spoke of, you do not want to hurt it, but you don't want it to get away either. If you are accustomed to wedging a pistol grip in the web off of your thumb base joint, dropping the bow into full palm contact will seem quite different for a time. High recurve grips tend to require a straighter bow arm. With a straighter grip it helps to allow the bow arm elbow to drop a bit down and away. Care should be taken that the bow arm is not jammed straight and the bow shoulder is not jammed up into the neck. Most of the loss in draw length when going from a recurve to a straighter low wrist grip is in the bow and the slight opening of the stance. I see it stated over and over that one can shoot a longbow and a recurve with the same form. Those that make that claim without fail shoot recurves better and never get to the level of free and fluid shooting with a straight gripped low wrist bow. A stiff and static shooting method always works better with a higher wrist bow, like most recurves.
Pavan I think your last post pretty much nails it for me, especially the last sentence or two. To take it one further when I switched from a compound I said a recurve can be shot the same way a compound can, as in an upright rigid stance, loose grip, and a dwell at anchor. A lot of that holds true since I shoot a recurve quite well but it doesn't translate as well to an ASL. I think the hand position feels unnatural to me so I struggle with inconsistency, if I had to guess from reading these posts. I guess ultimately it is about the grip. Good info, and as a bonus I won't be feeding any angry 'possum :biglaugh:
When I saw the black and white pamphlet from Howard Hill archery, it set something off in me. The pictures brought me back to when a man came to look at the chunk of ash that lightening blew off the tall ash tree. He made a calfskin backed longbow from it. I killed lots of rabbits and my first pheasants with that bow. I make it sound like it was years apart, it seemed like it. I out grew 60" ash longbow when I was 14 or 15, it broke, and got a recurve then I got a target recurve and then another bow etc. When I went from a target recurve to that first straight grip, the feeling of tens years prior came back, but the bow seemed extremely awkward. Over time, it probably was a bit here and there that I shifted away from trying to shoot the longbow with pure target form to a point where could say I shoot the target recurves that way and the longbow this way. Then i got a bunch of Hill real to real tapes from Jerry Hill. The pheasant killer that I was with my first longbow came roaring back to life. I liked shooting target style with target bows and hunting recurves with bow sights, the problem was that method does not match the way I hunt and what i hunt.
I to have a slight issue with this. What I noticed most is my elbow hurting when I shoot the ASL's due to me not "bending my elbow" with the ASL vs my hybrids. Not sure what I am going to do right now, I'm lost to say the least. I've be accustomed to shooting my "style" a couple decades now. I tried bending my elbow, I can't hit ANYTHING, and it feels so awkward, especially in my back.
I have difficulties with recurves, they make me feel like I must keep my arm straight. Straight arm shooters would maybe be better off with bows that have more shape to grip and should stay with what works for them.