Post by: PrimitivePete on January 30, 2019, 09:32:30 PM
Thanks in Advance
Pete
Post by: Hummer3T on January 30, 2019, 09:56:02 PM
combo lead to a pass through at twenty yards.
in saskatchewan you have to draw 40lbs @28 to hunt big game.
My broadhead is german kinetics which I find makes a very effective cutter.
Post by: Terry Lightle on January 31, 2019, 06:33:11 AM
Terry
Post by: The Whittler on January 31, 2019, 10:00:13 AM
Post by: The Whittler on January 31, 2019, 10:02:29 AM
Post by: wingnut on January 31, 2019, 10:18:25 AM
Mike
Post by: David Mitchell on January 31, 2019, 10:46:13 AM
Post by: Orion on January 31, 2019, 10:52:20 AM
I recommend as much weight as you can handle. I've only killed one moose, a quite large Alaskan Yukon bull. My 725 grain birch arrow tipped with a Zwickey Delta broad-head just barely broke the skin on the offside on an 18-yard broadside shot from my 66# r/d longbow. I'm shooting 45-50# now for most of what I hunt, but if I were to hunt moose again, I'd sure try to get my weight up to 55-60#, or even more if I could do it.
Post by: Bowguy67 on January 31, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Post by: GCook on January 31, 2019, 12:41:39 PM
If you have an outfitter he may have a minimum as well.
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Post by: longbowman on January 31, 2019, 02:07:38 PM
Post by: wood carver 2 on January 31, 2019, 04:56:13 PM
Dave.
Post by: skookuminak on January 31, 2019, 09:22:06 PM
PS as others have said, be sure to check local regulations. AK now requires 50# draw weight for moose.
Post by: bucknut on February 01, 2019, 06:02:23 AM
Post by: Stickbow on February 01, 2019, 08:49:10 AM
Hi all, longtime reader, seldom poster but hoping to help. I killed my first moose (although not a big bull) in AK 26 years ago at age 13 with an old (even at that time) 42# @28" recurve but probably only drew 25" and a heavy arrow with 2 blade zwickey. arrow hit heart and didn't quite make it out the far side. as I grew up I increased bow weight and am in the 60# range now but I shot several moose, including some good bulls, with light bows when I was younger, all well under 50# at my draw, all using heavy arrows, mostly with single bevel grizzly's and had several pass-throughs. the best arrows I used as a teenager were the old compressed yellow cedar forgewood with grizzly heads. I'm not sure how heavy they were but I'm guessing 700+. These days I'm all in on the extreme FOC and will likely moose hunt this coming season with Valkyrie system and 350gr up front, around 700gr total, likely Tuffhead but maybe the Valkyrie head. I think arrow design/broadhead do a lot more for penetration on moose than adding poundage. For what it's worth, I have had way more issues with penetration on Mtn goats than moose. the only moose shots that have given me trouble have been very high lung hits. as a result I always try to keep the hit mid mass or below if possible. best of luck and safe hunting to you!
PS as others have said, be sure to check local regulations. AK now requires 50# draw weight for moose.
Real experience........thought it was worth a repost :goldtooth:
Post by: Jason W on February 01, 2019, 12:18:17 PM
Big and small.
Dr. Ed has done many, many tests with a 650g arrow out of a 40# recurve and had many pass through on big buffalo.
Good FOC and the proper head will do a lot more than you think.
Post by: Garman on February 01, 2019, 03:16:15 PM
I am biased, but an arrow tipped with a single bevel head and a heavy weight that you are comfortable with and with the obvious good shot placement, a well tuned bow and arrow and confidence in your set up will take a lot of animals.
Big and small.
Dr. Ed has done many, many tests with a 650g arrow out of a 40# recurve and had many pass through on big buffalo.
Good FOC and the proper head will do a lot more than you think.
I do not have near the experience with trad bows, but I can tell you the difference I have seen switching to the heavier arrow with proper FOC with my wheel bow has been significant. All this with proper tuning makes a tool that is unstoppable. Maybe this will help in this thread somewhat. This year I shot an adult bull elk (373 gross score) with my older wheel bow. 70 lbs 28.5" draw, 650 grain arrow system, excellent single bevel broad head razor sharp. 38 yds or so, quartering away, took at one of the last ribs and exited his front opposite shoulder (pass through).
Upon return from that trip I used the same system on deer, I shot doe whitetail 20+yds, hard quartering away, I was 20+ feet up, severed spinal cord, exited through shoulder blade into ground.
End of October shot an adult 3+ year old buck my guess, somplete pass through at 18yds or so. Buried deep in ground. I understand this is a wheel bow with heavy poundage. My buddy shoots a longbow, 50lb with same type of results. I have complete confidence with a 45lbs bow on a moose with a proper set up. I would guess I would try to get up to 50-55 though if it was me. Get a hold of grizzly stik and they can give you a excellent recommendation.
Post by: stagetek on February 01, 2019, 04:40:15 PM
Post by: hunting badger on February 01, 2019, 11:57:53 PM
Post by: Kevin Dill on February 02, 2019, 03:13:21 PM
I've seen and known of more than one moose not recovered due to poor penetration and less than optimal shot placement. Moose are surprisingly quick and things often happen suddenly at close range. That perfect broadside shot at a standing bull is like a slow pitch down the middle....you're happy to see it but you can't depend on it. I like a bow with power.
The advantage of an exit wound is hard to overstate. Moose terrain is often very poor for blood trailing, and all possible blood on the ground is desirable. The farther a moose runs after the hit, the worse things tend to get in terms of recovery. Think "farther away, into a swamp or water, into nasty cover" and you've got it.
The best blood trail is the one you don't need. I've watched every bull I've killed go to earth, and I'll take that every time over the best blood trail. Those shots were all accurate, and they got total penetration. I used enough bow to feel certain of it happening.
My favorite bows for moose and caribou are around 64 pounds at my draw length of 29". I would say 55# is my personal low limit, considering my experiences and seeing the results I've seen over the years. I'm sure I could kill with less poundage, but I like a fairly heavy arrow and head while trying to minimize trajectory out to 30 yards.
My average shot distance on moose is just under ten yards. I prefer a semi-wide 2-blade head in a single-bevel configuration. I shoot the Abowyer Wapiti and have used them exclusively for many years. Carbon shafts will almost always exceed wood for penetration, but I DO shoot really good woodies I make myself. I've killed moose and caribou with both arrow types.
Accuracy beats everything else, but I can't count on being accurate 100% of the time. I'm just not that good of a shot....and that's probably why I work really hard at getting extremely close shots.
(https://i.imgur.com/2Y2qAn6l.jpg)
Post by: Jason W on February 02, 2019, 05:03:28 PM
Nice bull!
Post by: Chad Orde on February 02, 2019, 05:47:18 PM
Post by: Hermon on February 02, 2019, 08:45:03 PM
Post by: Sawpilot 75 on February 03, 2019, 09:07:24 AM
This isn't meant to convince anyone of anything, and I'm only relating my thoughts...not advising.
I've seen and known of more than one moose not recovered due to poor penetration and less than optimal shot placement. Moose are surprisingly quick and things often happen suddenly at close range. That perfect broadside shot at a standing bull is like a slow pitch down the middle....you're happy to see it but you can't depend on it. I like a bow with power.
The advantage of an exit wound is hard to overstate. Moose terrain is often very poor for blood trailing, and all possible blood on the ground is desirable. The farther a moose runs after the hit, the worse things tend to get in terms of recovery. Think "farther away, into a swamp or water, into nasty cover" and you've got it.
The best blood trail is the one you don't need. I've watched every bull I've killed go to earth, and I'll take that every time over the best blood trail. Those shots were all accurate, and they got total penetration. I used enough bow to feel certain of it happening.
My favorite bows for moose and caribou are around 64 pounds at my draw length of 29". I would say 55# is my personal low limit, considering my experiences and seeing the results I've seen over the years. I'm sure I could kill with less poundage, but I like a fairly heavy arrow and head while trying to minimize trajectory out to 30 yards.
My average shot distance on moose is just under ten yards. I prefer a semi-wide 2-blade head in a single-bevel configuration. I shoot the Abowyer Wapiti and have used them exclusively for many years. Carbon shafts will almost always exceed wood for penetration, but I DO shoot really good woodies I make myself. I've killed moose and caribou with both arrow types.
Accuracy beats everything else, but I can't count on being accurate 100% of the time. I'm just not that good of a shot....and that's probably why I work really hard at getting extremely close shots.
(https://i.imgur.com/2Y2qAn6l.jpg)
Spoken from experience guys. Well said Kevin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: RedRidge on February 03, 2019, 09:08:15 AM
Here we go again. I think anything less than 50# is cutting it very close. Moose are not only big critters, their hides are nearly a half-inch thick, covered by a lot of thick, heavy hair, their ribs are a lot bigger than a deer's ribs, and they're three-four times wider than a deer. Sure, they can be killed with less than that if everything goes perfect -- perfect broadside shot, perfect arrow placement, perfectly flying arrow, etc. But things don't always go perfectly.
I recommend as much weight as you can handle. I've only killed one moose, a quite large Alaskan Yukon bull. My 725 grain birch arrow tipped with a Zwickey Delta broad-head just barely broke the skin on the offside on an 18-yard broadside shot from my 66# r/d longbow. I'm shooting 45-50# now for most of what I hunt, but if I were to hunt moose again, I'd sure try to get my weight up to 55-60#, or even more if I could do it.
Just for reference as mentioned above. I haven't been with the bow yet, but these animals are HUGE!
(https://i.imgur.com/jFMtClPl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jyn4mRVl.jpg)
Post by: Tucker on February 03, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
Practically any legal weight bow with 10+gr/# arrows and sharp 2 blade broadheads shot from less than 20 yds will do that, including chopping through near side ribs. I’ve shot several broadside with a 44#@28” longbow, 500gr arrows, and 2 blade head. The arrows have all been poking out the far side or complete pass threws. A couple centered ribs going in and still made it to the other side.
Your “mileage “ may vary.
As always, follow the rules by using a legal weight bow and...
Bigger is always better! This isn’t catch and release that we are playing!
Post by: Birdbow on February 03, 2019, 02:43:48 PM
Post by: pavan on February 03, 2019, 03:34:21 PM
Post by: PrimitivePete on February 04, 2019, 04:53:59 AM
Post by: Kevin Dill on February 04, 2019, 08:32:36 AM
Thank you all, lots of great tips and I'm happy to have received such sage advice. If I can take the conversation to those who have been successful, how close were your shots.
My longest shot was 18 yards. The bull was down in about 10 seconds. Closest shot was 4 feet and the arrow was still in paradox when it entered the body. I've turned down plenty of 30+ yard opportunities. I only take shots which feel like slam dunks and give me very high assurance of being quickly lethal.
Post by: Tucker on February 04, 2019, 01:04:00 PM
Similar results for all.
Post by: Hummer3T on February 04, 2019, 02:39:02 PM
I think for all animals the key things are to set your perimeters (everyone's may be different dependent on skill, bow and arrow set up, etc.) for shot distance and placement, etc. and stick to it no matter what. I see to many people set their parameters and then get "game hungry" and try to take an animal outside of that. Not always but usually this is when things go amiss. I will only make broadside or slight quartering away shots all have to be under 20 yards for most big game sometimes due to the toughness of the animal and sometimes around the jumpiness of the animal. If that doesn't happen the animal walks. I have been criticized many times for not shooting a animal. Believe me it takes more of a hunter to pass on animals you may be able to get than to shoot and/or get an animal down.
Broadhead is the best I can find and afford.
Post by: skookuminak on February 06, 2019, 07:50:34 PM
I work super hard to get close to everything I kill and the vast majority of my shots are under 10 yards but things happen and it's best to have an arrow (and bow) that will give the best chance of a kill even if something crazy happens and you don't hit where you want. I've hunted 25 years up here (Alaska) it seems to me that every species I've killed with trad bow (multiples of deer, goat, sheep, moose, caribou) all live in places and environments where blood tracking can be pretty difficult. I've seen things get pretty challenging on the few animals I've been around that didn't go down within sight. that's one of the reasons I try to do everything I can to make sure that arrow goes all the way through the animal even if I get a weird deflection or something else happens.
the only moose I've ever hit and lost was a big bull at under 5 yards and I deflected off a tiny alder branch that I hadn't noticed. I spotted that bull alive and well appearing, feeding a few weeks later very near to where I hit him. In the chaos and fairly dense vegetation, I don't know where I hit him exactly but I had very minimal penetration based on how much arrow was broken off on the ground. at that time I was using a pretty light Doug fir shaft with only 160gr grizzly up front out of a 53# longbow. I'll never know but I think if I was using a better arrow I might have killed that bull despite the deflection.
I can't overemphasize how important the arrow and broadhead design have been for me and I think that's even more the case if you're going to be using a lighter bow. I've used lots of different setups but I'm sold on extreme FOC (I'm working toward >30% this year), high mass (over 650 per the ashby stuff, more is probably better), and a great broadhead. I'm pretty confident that I would take a great arrow over a 5# draw weight increase for any situation.
and like someone said above, some of the newer bow designs can significantly increase the momentum per pound of bow weight. for example I have a set of ILF Sky recurve limbs that are about 73# at my draw length and they shoot the same 700gr arrow about 8 FPS slower than a set of the new 57# Morrison Max 6's at my draw (30") on the same riser!