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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Forwardhandle on January 13, 2019, 10:28:59 AM
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I don't know if there is any interest here in this type bow but this is a project that's been in the works for 2 yrs for me my core air dried wood has been inside at 50% RH or below for that time ,I have prepped the horn for a shorter version and decided to redo the design and ended up with 60" NTN design with 50% maple core 25% horn & 25% sinew ,I'm hoping for at least 8 " resting reflex @50 lb. making one of these is 90% hand work and can be intimidating with the time involved probably could make 4 glass bows in the same time & then another 6 months cure time I'm hoping to have the sinew on by spring & finish 2 other bows on my list !
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Always interested in all sorts of bows, especially with natural materials.
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Interesting project, keep us posted. Are you using hide glue or fish bladder glue?
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Im using a combo yellow croaker & hide glue for the sinew and using non groved belly with smooth on to apply the belly slats on with 8" of reverse strung in reflex , the core is non slats in other words hand carving the core taper about 1/32 every 6" except the last 6" where it increases 1/32 to allow tunning the bend before the statics via side tiller the core will be tillered just to brace before the horn is applied the sinew should pull this bow to about 12" of starting reflex !
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I don't know if there is any interest here in this type bow...
ARE YOU CRAZY.. !!!! :o Of course we are interested... At least I am... :laugh: Keep posting...
Good Luck on your project Brudder...
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Ok thanks guys I will keep posting then ,the first step with these bows usually is to process horn first to make sure you have enough length & width but I'm pretty confident that I can get the length & width I need out of these so I'm starting the core first by cutting out the front view profile and take the thickness of the limbs down to 5/8 " out of the fades and narrowing the 8" static tips 5/8 x 9/16 in order to bend the hooks I'm trying to get a 45 Deg angle on the hooks but on this bow it's not critical 35-45 Deg will work I need to build a longer caul as to keep every thing centered !
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Get er done, Ritchie.
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This is beyond my skills, but will definitely be following along.
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This is beyound my comfort zone to but I will try to bumble threw it ,here is the would be glue you asked about Bue first step wait for wife to have a long shift...lol and cook these Yellow croaker air bladders low temp all day then blend them in the blender and lay the mix on dehydrator sheets & dehydrate about 18 hrs or so then put them in the coffee grinder or food processor and turn it in to granules, Im using this in conjunction with high grade hide glue it slows the gelling processe particularly in the colder weather also eatable if you get hungry :cheesy:
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first step wait for wife to have a long shift...
I'm gonna call and tell her..
:laughing:
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I like it, where did you buy these bladders? I bought sturgeon bladders from East Europe and they cost the shirt.
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I dont remeber exactly where I got them Bue ,I will look it up if I can find it ,I do remember they where pricy hard to come buy but the guys that make a lot of these bows tell me its as good as sturgeon bladders just not the historical type but nether is Ea-40 for horn all though Adam Korpowicz recomends it , Im lucky enough to have friends that make these so if I get in trouble I can make a phone call but a lot of prep before you even start building !
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Man, you got some cojones! I'm scared just watching from here.
Can't wait to see how this turns out, thanks for taking us with you.
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I do not mean to hijack your post, but this a «build along» I made on another forum a few years ago. It is about how I made glue from sturgeon bladders. I was surprised how easy they melted. I hope it is okay to post here.
http://atarn.net/phpBB2/forum5/topic2604.html?sid=940eab744fe5d9c73b38b2bb5b69067b
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Glad you did post that any help is appreciated maybe we can drag in more builders , I dont know if I call it a build along just posting as I go time wise Im still finishing up the 60" carbon but should get this under full steam in Feb ,weather providing Im on call 24/7 so I never no what my life is in winter , any body can chim in with what ever they want I dont have any ego in any bow I build I just like building bows and sharing ! Also if any body is interested in these bows here is a great book I have read it 5 times and still need to read it again a wealth of knowledge in it !
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5/8" thick core plus 1/4" horn and 1/4" sinew on 60" ntn????? That's gonna be much heavier draw than 50# I'm betting!
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How much total reflex are you expecting after the sinew dries? And yes im very interested in this bow build.
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Lol yes it would ,I was referring to the ruff dimensions to make it easer and have leverage to bend the hooks the final thickness out of the fades for this core will be 10/32 I'm leaving the whole limb 5/8 tell the hooks are bent and first alignment ,5/8 would be a good self bow starting point if I wanted a 70lb plus bow at my draw :cheesy:
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I posted at the same time as you Sribenn but I'm making this as a replica of my friends bow he ended up some where between 11-12 in total and still is maintaing 8-9" of reflex after tiller ,this is not a Turk bow its a composite long bow the pic is one of his earlier bows a couple bows back , he used hickory as a core so not sure if the maple is going to take more reflex ,in the past from sinew bows I have made with hickory & maple the maples tend to have more standing reflex so I said all that to say I realy don't know just guessing the horn will be glued up with 8" reflex the rest will come from sinew cure !
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This is cool, I'll be watching.
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I'm watchin but I don't think I can build one that takes that long... :biglaugh:
I like to shoot them before that kinda time elapses...
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Yep every thing about these is time consuming & intimadating there is a lot of prep work to just get to the build but just doing a little here and there the core being really the most critical no taper sled just rasp and sanding sticks ,I have preped horn before and it can be fun wathing it transition from bent horn to a smooth lam but this horn smells just like burnt hair when you work it makes me gag some times :cheesy:
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Yep I'm with Kenny. Very cool build and I'll be watching, but I don't have the patience or the shop time to devote to something like this right now.
So this will be modeled after Ed's bows? I really admire his horn/wood bows. They are awesome.
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Yep after his but with the different core wood and length where still swag not a lot of room for error on draw weight Im trying for just bellow 50 lb but these bows typically like a lot of my sinew bows pic up draw weight a year or two down the line , Im just rolling with it see where I end up the tiller is a slow process to but ones the sinew is on plenty of time for other bows !
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Horn bow is on my bucket list.
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This is a cool build. I’m looking forward to seeing it become a shooter.
Can a horn bellied bow be built using bamboo backing instead of sinew?
Dave.
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Wow I'm surprised at all the interest in these bows the pressure is on me now...lol wood carve I have a friend that actually built one like that and ended up being a real dog the key to getting good performance out of these is to stress the material to the max the material has a fair amount of mass to it, I don't think Boo would allow you to get the reflex you need with out blowing up !
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James Parker(huntworthyproductions) has built all boo Asiatic bows with heavily tempered boo belly, boo back and multi-lam maple(I think) core.
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James makes some nice horn composite bows to I think he was asking about horn belly , Dave Mead makes a real neat heat treated short boo bow to & material plans to make it ! I have one !
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I misread that, Ritchie. Sorry. But yes, James does build beautiful horn composite bows of all styles.
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When I found out my friend was making these bows I looked for historic info not much avalible there was tons about other asiatic bows but the only referance other then some native American bows was a reference to a bow made by tribes in the mountain region bordering Russia in eastern Europe !
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Made a limb templet at 58" ntn Im going to remake it and increase the length to 60" ntn the original was designed at 58" ntn 52lb @ 28" im incresing the length by 1 " and droping my horn from 3/16 to 1/8 that should give me a swag 52lb @31" you can get a good concept how short of working limb is on these bows also sinew can be adjusted , at my dimensions should give me a little more stability slightly thicker core ratio there is a lot to think about with these in the design phase the last thing I want to do is sand horn for weight adjustment !
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Wood Carver 2 -- bamboo will NOT substitute for sinew. It won't dry and pull the bow into more reflex, it won't stretch like sinew, it won't add draw weight. Just... no. In some designs, raw flax (not linen) can be used. It doesn't add reflex, only adds about 10% to the draw weight, and doesn't flex nearly as well as sinew, though.
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I never Flaxed backed a bow I have used the raw flax to make tapered patches on lifted splinters or knots prior to raw hide the stuff is like working with cat hair...lol but WC sinew is not very difficult to do when I get to processing it I will show you some easy tricks with it that I picked up over the years , but with these bows its a ballacing act with the mass/vs/stress , the horn can take exstrem compresion its amazing stuff , these bows are capable of the 190s 10 gpp if built right !
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I made this ruff templet for lay out but decided to modify the design again so Im remaking a longer limb templet in lexan when it gets here so I can see the centers after the hooks are bent ,the bow should end up 19" working limb 8" static ! The devil is in the details with this bow just like any other lam bow !
I really wish I could figure out a way to machine grind the taper in the stave but just cant come up with a feasible plain to stop the grind before the handle & static fades so back to rasp and sanding sticks,calipers !
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"I really wish I could figure out a way to machine grind the taper in the stave but just cant come up with a feasible plain to stop the grind before the handle & static fades so back to rasp and sanding sticks,calipers !"
Could you use a spindle sander to hog down the stave?
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Yep thats my plan and get it close or I thought I could make a templet and use the robo sander to get it with in a 1/32 , I have done the by hand method before scrape & rasp , sand , calipers its accurate but time consuming !