Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Crittergetter on December 29, 2018, 11:27:35 PM
-
As a bowyer I’m always interested in people’s feed back and am curious as to what motivates people that buy a custom bow vs a production bow. I understand both sides but am curious to what y’all s thoughts are.
Ready, set, go!!
-
I generally shoot production bows these days. Right now I shoot a Hoyt Tiburon and if a limb breaks I can get a Hoyt replacement in days. When my A&H limb broke I couldn't wait months for a replacement.
-
I really don’t care if it’s production or custom. Made all by hand or with a CNC machine. I just want a bow that I like the way it shoots. Also the grip is very important to me. If I don’t like the grip I’ll sell it right away.
-
more options in handle shape & material, limb length & material, veneers, finish options also all the special touches they can add to the performance and beauty.
-
I have owned and shot many many custom bows , some fit me great others not so much. Now days I just want a solid bow with good performance and reasonable price. The bows I’m shooting now do that for me , I can buy 10 of them for the price of one high end custom bow. And my tournament scores haven’t changed shooting a production bow and neither has my hunting success.
Now that being said I would love to have a wall full of custom bows but my wallet says no...
,,,Sam,,,
-
My sole motivation in choosing a bow is hunting performance. When I say that realize that I don’t mean chronograph numbers. I’ve owned and shot hundreds of bows over the years and to be honest I really don’t have a strong preference in general for production vs custom. I try to buy used bows if possible to try out a makers work before committing to a custom bow because I’m picky about the grip and how the bow feels during the draw and shot cycle. Buying used is more cost effective for those that might only be shot 10-12 times before moving on. That said, I’ve got a custom on order now that should be done within a week or so and as I was ordering it cost wasn’t a consideration at all. The cost of admission is what it is on custom handmade products and I truly don’t think most craftsmen supporting this industry charge enough for their skilled labor. What I am looking for in a bow is:
[[/li]
- a grip that fits my hand perfectly and naturally that is consistent and repeatable over time without me having to think about hand placement or wrist angle
- a bow that shoots to the point of aim naturally and intuitively and is also fairly forgiving of form when hunting...the kind that seems to shoot itself so to speak
- a bow that is fairly quiet but most importantly can be tuned for a deeper pitch with a more natural sound quality. Soft thuds spook animals less than high pitched thwacks or snaps or cracks. Sound quality is more important to me than the volume of the sound but ideally I can have both quiet AND natural sounding.
- comfortable to shoot. This means not a lot of vibration after the shot, a good grip,no finger pinch, a smooth and even draw, no stacking, and a bow that feels lighter and springier at a given draw weight than a bow that has the subjective feel of being heavier at a given draw weight
- fast flight capable, even if I don’t wind up using fast flight I want the option because it gives me more options in string build for tuning the sound quality of the bow
- acceptable fit/finish. The more expensive the bow the more critically this will be judged. I don’t expect a Samick Sage to look like a $1000 hand built bow. Minor streaking in the glass or similar flaws from the build don’t bother me at all but sloppy craftsmanship and poor tolerances do bother me. I don’t need perfection on a hunting bow but I do expect it to look like the craftsman who built it took his time and has pride in his work
- build specs that are what I’m looking for in design, size, poundage, and tiller
For what it’s worth, I currently only own custom bows. I have thought about adding an ILF rig sometime too though. Production bows have the advantages of cost, availability, and often longer product support because large companies (like Hoyt, Black Widdow, etc) tend to last longer than one man shops who eventually close when the owner retires. The custom world offers customers different designs, niche products, levels of fit/finish not able to be bought from production shops (silver/gold inlays, relief carvings, checkered grips, exotic leather grips, wood inlays, etc), a wider selection of materials and looks, the ability to customize the features and appearance, a wider range of draw weights, the ability to send in sentimental materials to be incorporated into the bow (Bob Sarrels is putting antler overlays from one of my bow kills on my custom being built now), and in my opinion a better and more personal experience.
-
I only have a couple of custom bows, and they are not really different from stock bows. I got a Wesley Special as a custom order so I could get the color glass, type of grip, draw weight, etc. at the time I wanted it. I got a Northern Mist Shelton on custom order to get the color and the yew limbs that I wanted, Granted, there's not much here that I couldn't get in a stock bow if I shopped around, but I didn't want to make the search, so I talked to the bowyers and they made it happen.
-
I don't buy many bows, but quiet, then the grip and clear glass are the big requirements. Good performance without being too radical to where it unstrings itself are also nice!
-
I had a popular model of bow for a short time that I loved the grip and I could shoot it but the noise was intolerable. A friend had bought a Primaltech and really liked it. Did a bit of checking and nothing but positive feedback on them.
The quiet was what intrigued me. Randy had been very helpful as well working out tuning and stuff on other bows as I got back into traditional archery the last couple years.
I know so little about the availability of what's out there but did know what I wanted as far as center cut, draw weight at my draw length and I like a bit faster bow as well. Finding that in the used market was tough and after a few buy ad sell attempts I just decided to give his bow a shot.
It was worth the time and money for me.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
-
I personally don’t believe a production bow should have a custom bow price. If I can choose my grips, my own matireal and look for a bow with a price close to some of these production bows why would I buy one of them.
When I’m in the market I generally don’t have a huge budget so price tends to a bigger factor than some of you guys :biglaugh: and If I can get what I want I’ll go custom.
-
Idk bout everyone else but I have zero production bows except one kids bow. As a kid myself I had a few and on all of em the shelf was cut too high for my liking. I shoot off the shelf so it matters.
Now add all the cool wood, overlays, sheep horn, pearl, etc etc that can be added or subtracted and you won’t most likely have the same bow as your neighbor.
Than there’s performance. If the bow didn’t perform better than a factory bow I’d wanna weigh that too I’d guess. Truthfully though the second I pick up a production and the shelf is way up high I’m disinterested in even trying it.
-
For me, choosing any bow is a matter of trying different features - overall design, length, grip. There are generally more options, and combination of options, with a custom bow. Cost and wait time are important factors for me, so I have gone the production route, as well as custom. I like them both for different reasons, but if I could afford it, I would go custom so I could incorporate the features I like most with chosen woods for the look I like, too.
-
It doesn't really matter to me as long as the bow fits. I've had quite a few custom bows over the last 40-45 years and might do one more. I'm talking to a bowyer now and we'll see how it works out but if it doesn't I have a plan "B" for a production model. I'm more into function than fancy, my stuff gets used hard.
-
It's how a bow fits, then how a bow performs. I have own numerous custom bows over the years, some great, some "not" so great. The most expensive bow I ever owned was a custom bow by a bowyer with a great name. The bow was the most unforgiving bow that I ever shot. If one little detail of my form, my grip, or my release was different or off in some minor way, my arrow flight was truly erratic to say the least. It was so bad, that I didn't have enough confidence to even take it hunting. I spoke to the bowyer numerous times, even sent the bow back to him twice, once so he can inspect the tillering and the second time for a set of limbs that cracked. After a year and a half of frustration, I simply just gave the bow away, (free of charge),. It seemed the more money that I paid for a bow, the more frustration it gave me.
For me, nothing fits me better than one of my one piece Martins. I like how quiet I can get them, how accurate I am with a Martin and I have never been to much on speed, but all my Martins are pretty zippy.
Some like Fords, some like Chevys. It's all a personal choice and what fits the individuals needs the best.
-
For me, trying the different designs and styles made by trad bowhunters themselves is half the fun. Ive owned 20-25 different custom bows and have had one bad experience. It was a bowyer that used to be on here. He has long been gone. i like the idea of my bow being made in some guys shop.
-
For me, the most important thing is the direct connection to our past. Throughout recorded history, maybe 5,000 years, bowyers have been making bows in small shops for others to use. If we go back further than that, maybe there were bowyers, maybe not, but people were making bows either for other people or for themselves as far back as 50,000 years ago. Bows were the most advanced technology on the planet for 10’s of thousands of years until the advent of agriculture about 15,000 years ago. Other than gathering nuts, berries, and insects, bows were the main way we fed ourselves for countless generations. You could take a traditional bow made by any bowyer today and hand it to a caveman of 20,000 years ago and he would know exactly what to do with it. He probably wouldn't notice the fiberglass backing, but he would sure think it shot well.
Of course, after the industrial revolution, many things that had been made in small shops were taken over by factories. It's interesting that it's taken so long for that to happen with traditional bows. Compound bows, on the other hand, seem like a natural product for a factory to make. But as long as I can, I will continue to support the efforts of the bowyers who make bows from start to finish, as a continuation of the tradition started who knows how many years ago by our ancestors.
-
Some pretty interesting points made going both ways.
I personally have never bought a custom bow for myself. I have owned a few top name bows and have shot more than I can remember.
The main reason I never purchased a custom was because I simply couldn’t afford it. So I completely understand the draw to production bows and the convenience they offer.
I’ve always been good with my hands and had a intuitive understanding of how things worked so I knew right off I could make my own bow and set out to do it.
Little did I know the course I was setting myself on. Nor did I know the depth of time and effort involved in making a one of a kind bow.
During conversations with a close friend and somewhat of a business advisor of mine he has mentioned that I should considered starting a line of “production” bows. Utilizing quality but cheaper than fancy or exotic woods and colored glass.
Also providing limbs sets that could be ordered without a long wait.
This is something I will have to take into deeper consideration as I do see there may be a market for it.
Thank you all for the feedback
-
Crittergetter, I think your idea of offering bows with a slightly lower price with less exotic woods but of good quality is a good idea. I have had a lot of custom bows over the years. I have and ILF Apex riser coming in 10 days from South at Stalker and I did do some very slight upgrades on the wood choices but other than that the last two customs I purchased I just ordered the base bow with no upgrades and black glass. One of those bows was from Bryan at Tall Tines and to me that bow with the base grey diamond wood and black glass is to me an outstanding looking bow. Amazing what he can do with no upgrades. I'm getting where I'm not so interested in how good a bow looks with the fancy woods, but how it shoots. I am also getting to where I hate to take a fancy bow hunting as I'm usually in rocky terrain and hate to beat up a fancy bow. I'm just glad there are so many choices out there to chose from.
-
For me if I can't just pick a bow up and have it hit where I'm aiming it's out the door regardless of if it cost $100 or $2000. The grip is what my main focus is when picking out a bow. So that rules out a lot of production bows. When buying a custom unless you live near the bowyer it is hard to get the exact grip you like on a bow that is custom for you. I do agree with your thoughts on having low priced extra limbs on hand to get someone out of a bind. If I were a bowyer, I likely would focus most of my time on stock bows so you don't have the issue of hitting customer weight and possibly charge a bit more for "Custom" work. I like to go to trad events and try all the vendors bows to see what grip works for me, that way I know their standard grip is good for me. I do not buy the over seas made bows as some do. I know they are cheap and function really well for their cost point and don't begrudge anyone who shoots them. I personally want something made in USA or Canada.
-
IMO,all things being considered production bows offer a better value in terms of performance, durability, availability, tunability and warranty.
-
Personally, I like them all. I've got some self bows, made for me by others, that I got through the annual bow swap that I like to shoot. I have some old recurves I like to as well, and those that I've made. I can honestly say I've shot thousands of custom bows, since I made them for others, and like to I try them out before I ship them, but they shoot just like anything else available on the market. My favorites are the old Ben Pearson recurves (colts, cougars, palominos, mustangs etc.) when I see one at a yard sale or something I always grab it. I've been a professional bowyer since 2006, and I still haven't made myself a nice bow yet, I've started, but it seems I always end up selling it to somebody. Maybe this year I'll do that, make a nice bow for myself.
-
I have owned 6 production bows 3 of which I still own one custom and made one self bow.. In the past I typically purchased one bow and just learned to shoot it year after year. Never changed I just figured I had a bow why do I need another. Then as I got older and a little better off financially I started trying different style bows and different grips. And I still tend to hold on the bows I purchase. Now I have my preferences on grip and style. I shot recurves most of my life and was always happy. Recently had a custom longbow made. I will say it is a work of art and shoots well also. I am now trying ilf bows. I like the ability to change limbs if something's happens to them. Or you can change draw weight if wanted or needed. I typically shoot 55- 65 lb range bows am not young anymore so the production ilf bows are really starting to appeal to me. Can try different grips and limb weights without the expense of buying a complete new bow. And with ilf bows getting new limbs is easy. I really admire the custom bows they are works of art. I am a hunter and tend to be rough on equipment so a high end custom would just get beat up. As far as shooting I think all the bows out there will shoot better than I am capable of so I tend to buy bows that don't break the bank.
-
I am fairly new to traditional archery. This is my 5th year. When searching for my first “real” bow after my Samick Sage, price and durability was the motivating factor. I looked at dozens of different manufacturers, both production and individual bowyers. Since my bow would be used for hunting it did not have to be pretty, just functional.
A custom bow made more sense to me because I had the choice of grip, length, draw weight, color, add-ons while still in the same price range of a basic production bow. I could not justify spending hundreds of more dollars on a bow to look pretty when it’s primarily meant to be drug through the swamps.
It’s just like having a beautiful wood grain over/under with gold inlays when a synthetic Remington 870 works just as good. Some people like that kind of thing but I would find it so hard to damage a work of art that some of the custom bows have become. All that to say: yes Randy a cheaper, production priced model with detachable limbs sounds like a winner. Less time for you to produce, less worry on the hunter about getting scratches/dings, and less damage to the customer’s pocketbook seems like it would lead to more sales.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
When I owned many customs it was usually about getting exactly what I wanted in terms of the woods and glass used, the draw weight and length I wanted. I never really believed that the performance was all that different. I only have two custom bows left excluding the 2 I built from Bingham kits. Right now I'm shooting a Bear Montana more often than not and I'm really enjoying it.
Like most guys in the Gang...I have waaaaay too many bows lol. Eventually I'll get down to just a few..because I think when I can focus on just a couple I tend to shoot better and as a hunter that's the most important thing
-
So what is "custom"?
I'm not being sarcastic....I have 32 bows hanging in my office. Shrews, Black Widows, Northern Mist's, Bears (my Bear bows are all from the 70's) Great Northern's, a few others that I'm not thinking of right now.
Some of those bows were already finished by the bowyer, I liked them, so I bought them. That sure as heck isn't custom. It might be unique, but it ain't custom.
Others, were made for me specifically. I ordered the grip I like, the veneers I like, and the bowyer made it to spec's he already has proven out. To me that's not custom. That's just picking out a few options. If thats custom, so is my pickup truck. :biglaugh:
My bow buying process goes like this:
I get bored with what I'm shooting
I start looking around
I shoot a few bows, and find a grip I like
I either buy something off the shelf or have a bowyer or bow company make one.
I have bought a true custom rifle. I collaborated with a gunsmith to create something "never been done before". But not a bow.
-
Very interesting points....
Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect.... I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.
I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol
-
Very interesting points....
Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect.... I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.
I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol
Randy will work with you. I think I drove him nearly insane with different woods and laminations. In the end he did a basic bow with the camo dip I requested. It was a good experience working with him on it.
Now if I can just persuade him to build two piece recurves . . .
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
-
Very interesting points....
Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect.... I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.
I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol
Randy will work with you. I think I drove him nearly insane with different woods and laminations. In the end he did a basic bow with the camo dip I requested. It was a good experience working with him on it.
Now if I can just persuade him to build two piece recurves . . .
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
See I am the exact opposite. I couldn't care less about what the bowyer uses for core and lamination. I figure he's the pro, tell me. The bowyer that I have interacted the most with is Steve Turay. Our conversations go like this:
Me: Hey, I like that new Ramer, how long do you want to build it for my draw length?
Steve: Probably 66"
Me: Ok...make it dull enough and I won't spray paint it
Steve: Ok, I'll call you when it's ready.
Then however many months later....I get a box and an invoice.
Crittergetter, I think your "production" idea has merit. If I were buying one of your bows, that is where I would start.
All of that said....guys that love pretty wood, lamination's, inlays, whatever....I get it, and more power to you. It just isn't for me.
-
Pretty much everything GDPolk said, we are like minded on this topic.
A few other things to add though.
Soul and functional art. Production bows lack either. I can kill and cover miles with a production bow, but a piece of handmade art is like a trusted friend and reflects the talent of the artist, their hunting ethos, the sacred nature of the kill, blah blah blah. I'm an art aficionado and don't mind spending money on talent and a piece of functional artwork that will keep me inspired looking beautiful in my mancave on days I cant make into the field.
Another interesting tidbit on top of what GDPolk mentioned-- nothing will make me put a newly delivered bow up for sale faster than if the workmanship and performance doesnt match the price I paid in my mind upon unboxing and initial tune and/or if the bowyers customer service or personality rub me the wrong way or I hear later that they treated a customer/patron poorly. Now mind you Ive sold A LOT of bows, and 90%+ were more than up to snuff, I just love bows. I just thought Id mention that. We are lucky that nearly all of our bowyers in this community are super folks.
-
9er I'm the same way with a bow or bowyer. If it don't fit it ships. If something a bowyer does pisses me off it ships. I know the only one losing out is me but I 'm hard headed and I don't want to help someone sell bows that I don't care for. Luckily I've only had one so far.
-
I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.
-
I'd suggest making a couple of in stock bows with less expensive materials but not compromising performance and I'd bet you'll have a hard time keeping any stock bows around.
-
A Volkswagon Beetle will get you from point A to point B but a Mercedes is sure a lot more fun to drive.
-
Well, I have been around a long time, owned a truck load of bows (over 100 at last count)--many "customs" by some of the top makers over the years. I have had the pretty wood, fancy this and that, and recently due to a need to drop some bow weight, I picked up a Galaxy Ember longbow from Lancaster and am happy as a dead pig in the sunshine. It has the best grip, for me, of any custom I ever owned. Didn't put a big dent in the budget, and bamboo cored limbs can be had for $89 a pair and they can be either recurve or longbow (or hybrid to be exact--I'm a bit fussy about what I call a "longbow"). That makes it hard to want to plunk down 4-5 times the money for something else that may not please me any better. I like colored glass a bunch these days and have bows with caramel, brown, black, green, and white glass, as it brings back fond memories of older times. I started shooting bows way back in 1955 with a lemonwood self longbow made by Indian Archery in Evansville, Indiana which my dad bought for me at Beard's Sporting Goods in Evansville. I guess maybe I'm just coming around full circle to a place close to where I started when archery had such a special aura of excitement for me. Plain works well for me now at less expense.
-
I have owned about 2 dozen longbows and recurves over the past 30 yrs and shot several dozen more. That said I have only 4 Ive kept as they just feel perfect when I shoot them. All are custom but only 2 were made for me and 2 picked up used. I could shoot most production bows well enough but just none were just right. My last new custom was in 2007 and is my newest bow with nice cocobolo and at 65#. I still really like that bow. I did feel the urge in sept and ordered a new custom but this one will be a little plainer and a little lighter at 55#. Both are 64" recurves and one piece production bows that long are hard to find. ………..YMMV
-
I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.
Fred Bear and Bear bows are part of the tradition of traditional archery, yes?
-
I have owned a bunch of custom recurves....the only curves still on my rack all say Bear on them. Bear bows have some of Fred's mojo in them. :archer:
-
I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.
Fred Bear and Bear bows are part of the tradition of traditional archery, yes?
Yes, I guess by production I’m thinking more metal risers and more made by machines and non-bowyers. Bear bows require all the same nuances of custom, assuming they are built right. I am a bigger fan of the older bear bows, however these recent couple years they are looking really good in fit and finish...also I noticed they do have variances, but I think that’s cool because it shows they have some craftsperson working on them. Technically production I guess, but not in spirit. There were a number of Bear bows a few years back I saw that I would classify as production, terrible finish and detail work. Seems like this has changed. It’s best made by a bowyer in my opinion.
-
Maybe I’m crazy but when I have fellow craftsmen build me anything I use, especially for hunting, I get attached to the sentiment, relationship, pride, etc in using it. The art, craftsmanship, talent, experience, knowledge, you get this from custom. Whether you ordered every aspect or bought a stock “custom”. I have bows from many bowyers, my own creations, clothing fellow craftsmen made, knives, etc and I guess I get a warm friendly feeling when I use them. It’s like mojo, a connection, whatever you want to call it. I shot a giant buck one year and on the way to cabin I remember calling a steve Turay to tell him what I did with one of his bows, he was my first call, and I felt excited as a kid at Christmas. I’ve killed a ton of deer, but still I love relaying the success with the creators. My first two deer of my life were with a Great Northern bow 30 years ago and it changed my life, so I love telling the guys of that..it’s not easy to put into words the why behind custom, but I know I’m all in.
-
Well put Over. I sent Randy a message with each kill the last few weeks. I've only met him once a couple years ago and even though I bought the bow I feel like I've gotten a special gift in it. My first custom but who know what's in the future . . .
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
-
custom to me is how I want it exactly,,,, I think many if not most bowyers today offer a platform and you just decide what color you want. so grips,, okay high,low,med right? what if I want my grip to be skinny or fat what if I want my grip checkered or maybe I want the shelf ground closer to the strike plate or I want a fletching trough cut in,,,,,,,,,, what if I want arrow holder added into the riser? many will only do what you see on the website and I do understand that there is a fine line because they have to make sure your happy and if your not after all that work?
one thing that was new to me recently was tillering, why is it bowyers ask if you want your bow tillered for 3 under or split only to tiller it the same so the bow can be shot either way?? even though you will never shoot it the other way? I really wanted to get a new bow recently and wanted an instock bow only to find out they are all tillered the same..... had to go with one of the old school bowyers to have it tillered for how I shoot and now I have to wait a year so I have to wait till the spring to put my order in so I can have it for deer season (Shafer) which is fine.
production I guess if you want it fast and you don't mind getting it to work for how you shoot sometimes that's not a bad option.. if your fussy like me finding a bowyer who understands you is worth its weight in gold.
-
Overspined....you said "I can't imagine shooting a production bow". With that you are disregarding most of the bows that built our sport....Bear, Ben Pearson, etc....
The "mojo", magic, or whatever attachment you feel is in your mind, not the bow.
I have several of Steve Turays bows myself, and have killed a bunch of deer with them. My favorite one,my Ramer, happens to be covered in Krylon paint. Yes, my good friend built it, and I take pride in the quality of that bow, but it is a hunting tool.
You say "mojo"...I say "sentiment". And the most sentimental bow in my rack is my Dad's old magnesium riser Bear takedown. production bow if there ever was one.
-
I mostly agree with Roger's analysis. I've had some 'custom bows' made by some of the highly regarded bowyers on this sight and they are excellent bows. But if I'm honest with myself, I've only had one custom bow made for me in 50 years of traditional archery and that's my Northern Mist Shelton. The reason I say that is I met with Steve Turay when he was up in Michigan's upper peninsula for 2 hours one winter day. He showed me his workshop (my family was with me), how he built bows on the forms, etc. The real key was that I shot all of his different models up in his upstairs shooting range for 20-30 minutes, trying each bow back and forth. Really getting the feel of each bow and how it shot. Once we had the model, we discussed the grip size and style (still part of the custom) and then woods and glass color (cosmetic to some degree). When we were discussing woods, I was thinking he'd say bamboo or yew or one of the other 'notable' longbow woods of days gone by would be his recommendation. Instead, he said American Elm was his preference for a core wood, so I went with that and green glass and of course he picked out a piece of Bolivian Rosewood to match the one in the picture of another bow he built that I liked the looks of. When it came to length, I said what length do you recommend for my 28 inch draw. He said any length you want in the 66-70 inch range and he'd adjust the tapers to fit my draw. The bow came exactly as I wanted and expected and it's an incredible shooter. I also have a 'stock' Ramer model he made, same bowyer, purchased without trying or seeing in person. This is a bow made by what I consider as someone that can produce a custom bow, but I wouldn't call it a custom bow.
Personally, I think if you're buying a bow off the standard form and you're just choosing woods and grip low, medium or high, then you're getting a standard Ford truck with options. If you're having the shelf customized or unique length and adjusted limb tapers for your longer or shorter draw, meeting with the bowyer in person to pick exact grip, tillering for three fingers under, etc. then I believe you've got a 'custom' bow.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
-
There seems to be a question of what “custom” really means. I'm not sure if I can clarify this, or just add to the fog, but I’ll try. Very few cars, for example, start out as custom cars: they start out as ‘54 Fords, or whatever. If a person buys one and chops it, repaints it, changes the engine and exhaust system, etc., then it becomes a custom car. Some people might go the other way and try to keep a ‘54 Ford as close to the way it came out of the factory as possible, and while that might require as much money as customizing it would, it's done for a different purpose and doesn’t result in a custom car.
I could do the same thing with a bow. I could buy a ‘59 Bear Kodiak, not a custom bow, and change the grip and limbtips and make it into a custom bow. I don't know why anybody would want to do that, as it would ruin the value of a classic, but they could if they wanted to. OTOH, you could buy an already made bow from any bowyer who happens to have one for sale, and if he just ships it to you without changing it to suit your preferences, then it's not a custom bow. If you call a bowyer and agree on the poundage, the grip, the length, the tiller, the wood, and the finish, then it's a custom bow, even though he uses the same forms he uses to make all of his bows. Some ILF bows made with metal risers in factories may cost more and shoot better than some custom bows made by some individual bowyers, but they aren't custom bows unless you have enough clout to get the factory to change things to suit your individual preferences.
Another definition of custom would be a bow that is unique because of the material it is constructed from or other factors that make it one of a kind. An example of this would be a yew self bow. Every piece of yew is different, so every bow is going to be different even if the bowyer constructs each one as close to the same way as he can. The same could be said of some more modern traditional bows, but the differences are not as obvious to me as self bows. For example, I wouldn't consider a wood bow constructed in a factory custom, even though no two pieces of wood are going to be exactly the same.
The original question is a valid question, as long as we understand what the question means.
-
You may be right in the analogy of the Ford with options added to a point.
However most people buy a Ford with a given package off the lot not order one with only what they want and wait for the factory to deliver.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
-
There seems to be a question of what “custom” really means. I'm not sure if I can clarify this, or just add to the fog, but I’ll try. Very few cars, for example, start out as custom cars: they start out as ‘54 Fords, or whatever. If a person buys one and chops it, repaints it, changes the engine and exhaust system, etc., then it becomes a custom car.
Some ILF bows made with metal risers in factories may cost more and shoot better than some custom bows made by some individual bowyers, but they aren't custom bows unless you have enough clout to get the factory to change things to suit your individual preferences.
The original question is a valid question, as long as we understand what the question means.
I'd argue that you are contradicting yourself there. Any ILF bow that doesn't come as a complete is probably a custom. What is more custom than picking out a riser, limbs, string, rest, and plunger/sideplate and having them come together into a complete bow?
To answer the original question...I would consider a custom except I don't like wood. I appreciate things made out of metal much more. I haven't seen custom bowyers crafting bespoke metal or carbon risers but I would like it if they did, even though I probably don't have the money to afford one.
I get that connection/sentiment/whatever with my bow because I have assembled it and put it together myself to be what I want. I'm not sure a bow crafted by someone else however perfectly for me could equal the connection I have with a warf where I saved the riser from the trash, and gathered all the parts myself, and put together a unique thing myself.
-
I won't argue with you, because you have as much right to your opinion as to what custom means as I do. For me, assembling components of an ILF bow, where none of the components were custom made, does not make it a custom bow. Maybe if you made or customized some of the components yourself, then it would. I think we can agree that it is not a clear black and white distinction. For example, if I machine my own grip and put it on an ILF bow, does that make it a custom ILF bow, or just a custom grip?
-
I wasn't going to get into this one,but changed my mind.
I think anything that would come out of his shop would be custom. All of the bows I have were built out of small one man shops.
To answer your question, I think it would be a great option to offer something that would appeal to a bigger market,and still have the quality of a small one man shop.
-
adjectiveNORTH AMERICAN
adjective: custom
1.
made or done to order for a particular customer.
-
At the heart of it, custom would be made for YOU, as Ray points out. I’ve made forms to satisfy customer needs and always take hand measurements, draw length, etc to build a custom bow for someone. They shoot, pick, and decide. It’s as custom as I can get...
All in all, it’s preference in all ways and yeah, sentiment has a lot to due with traditional archery, to me anyways...there’s only been a couple bows I actually did not enjoy shooting of the many, many, many I’ve shot.
-
I've owned a variety of bows. Most were from 1 or 2 person operations. Most of those were used or stock. I recall only "ordering" only 3-4. For one of those bows I had clear glass hand-selected from a friend at Gordon Composites and carbon was provided from stock that Earl Hoyt used to own. I even provided a grip profile that I liked. It is the bow B/W ebony in my profile picture.
I love beautiful wood, especially exotic burls or Macassar Ebony. However, my current shooter is any thing but and very much a production ILF - the carbon riser Lobo by TT. It is simple, light weight, well made, has a terrific (jaeger) grip, and quick shooting at my 26" draw.
By the way, out of 30-40 bows, I've only owned two that I thought I'd never get rid of. One of those two I sold the day after receiving it. The other lasted a bit longer. But, in the end all of them buy 6 have gone on to other owners.
-
As long as it is made in USA I would buy it. A real custom bow that is your grip tillered for you and built for best performance at your draw dont come cheap. also need to be quite and stable.
-
Custom for me. Drawlength is the biggest thing I guess. (31”) Then maybe grip. I wanted a shorter bow for pop up blind use. I also wanted a T/D. So I called Greg Coffey. Getting closer.