Post by: Crooked Stic on December 29, 2018, 10:00:52 AM
Re: Bear Paw glass changing spine?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 05:26:03 AM »
Quote
I had a long conversation with Toby at Black Widow the other day. Seems I’m not alone with the hitting weight challenge with the Bear Paw glass. He said they have more stock bows than they have ever had because of missing weight. Later that same day, Tim from Kustom King called me and talked to me about the issues I was having. He’d already spoken with Toby and was going to be in touch with BP in Germany later that same day. They seem committed to resolving/figuring out what is creating the problem. Even being aware of the problem, I’m still going to continue to use it. I’d rather have a pair of limbs that I missed weight on than a pair of limbs that is covered by streaky glass. I’d urge guys when switching from one roll to another to have glue up a test set of limbs with the same species of veneer, same thickness and same core to compare to an older glue up so you can adjust the stack if needed before you go gluing up any once in a lifetime veneers. On this latest roll I opened up a couple of weeks ago, I had to add .015” to my stack to bring the weight up. They came in 7 pounds light. Frustrating, but I love how clear their product is.
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 29, 2018, 06:17:48 PM
Post by: T Folts on December 31, 2018, 09:01:11 AM
I ended up making a second set of takedown limbs and hit weight a little high but workable. I made up a jig similar to what mike posted and started comparing glass. I see a 7/8" deflection from Gordons to Bearpaw. BP glass has a bigger deflection. (weaker). I also compared black glass to clear (Gordons) with the exact same number. I have more BP coming so I will compare that to what I have.
With this new info I am wondering if there has been a difference with the Gordons all along but less and a contributing factor in missed weights.
Terry
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 31, 2018, 10:03:40 AM
Post by: Crittergetter on December 31, 2018, 11:44:23 AM
Clarity is great but even after adjusting the stack To compensate for it I still came in a few pounds under where I wanted to be before trapping and rounding edges. I could only do a minimal amount of rounding to stay within target weight.
Post by: kennym on January 01, 2019, 11:51:00 AM
Did a little mod on my arrow spine tester. Getting some results ...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: kennym on January 01, 2019, 12:54:45 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 01, 2019, 05:05:50 PM
Post by: Bow man on January 09, 2019, 12:17:24 PM
Post by: kennym on January 09, 2019, 12:33:58 PM
Post by: fujimo on January 09, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
In any Fiberglass layup, the actual strength comes from the saturated glass in the layup, and the more glass, the stiffer and stronger it will be.
in the Gordons glass, those dry streaks are not fully saturated glass.
and not fully saturated glass is not a good thing either.
i may be splitting hairs here, and maybe the glass( my guess) is so over engineered on both of the products anyway, and that these issues are pretty minor in the bigger scope of things.
Post by: Tim Finley on January 09, 2019, 02:34:32 PM
Post by: Holm-Made on January 09, 2019, 10:41:42 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 10, 2019, 06:30:05 AM
Did you get this from a reliable source.
i do know for a fact, speaking to quite a few of my friends in Europe, that just because BP guarantee their bows , does not mean they dont break- and i have heard quite a bit of mumbling lately about folks' warranties not being honored.
i build my own bows , so this does not effect me- but just an observation.
Post by: trasher on January 10, 2019, 09:17:30 AM
Guys, I'm not a friend of bearpaw products, this has nothing to do with their quality,
but I don't know any bowyer who's that accommodating.
I know a lot of guys who got their bows replaced in a short time without any problem.
Including a friend which bought a 4 Year old secondhand bow without any invoice. The bow broke, he called Bearpaw and 2 Weeks later he got a new one!
Henry's service is realy great!
I did not hear this from someone, I experienced it first hand.
Another Bearpaw story.
I ordered 12 Goldtip-traditional shafts years ago.
The delivered nocks where horrible, 60% of those nocks broke after hitting hard.
I called Bearpaw.
They told me that a charge of nocks had a wrong mixing ratio, so they send me 50 pieces for free.
I know nocks are not expensive but I realy appreciate it.
But there are also a lot of people who want to take advantage of this.
If bearpaw get aware of this, you will get what you begging for......
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 10, 2019, 10:46:30 AM
Post by: fujimo on January 10, 2019, 05:36:23 PM
i will most certainly refrain from getting into a mud slinging match with good folk on this site.
its probably the oldest unspoken rule on these public forums; that if one has an issue, take it up with the right folk first, dont drag things to an open and public forum.
i was wrong in doing what i did.
once again sincere apologies.
Post by: Mike Mecredy on January 10, 2019, 07:28:24 PM
Post by: Bvas on January 10, 2019, 08:21:53 PM
I know a lot of guys say that changing core wood doesn’t effect much, but could the softer limba cause the difference?
Post by: Mike Mecredy on January 10, 2019, 09:07:51 PM
It sure is nice and clear though, I've just written all th results down in my notes to make sure I make the limbs a bit thicker (I guess around .005" thicker to make up the difference.
Tomorrow when I test the three out, I'll mention if the clear glass performs any different than the two with black glass.
Post by: Buemaker on January 11, 2019, 04:32:15 AM
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 11, 2019, 09:09:37 AM
Post by: Mike Mecredy on January 11, 2019, 10:36:36 AM
In the future, I think I'll use the bb glass if I'm making something that doesn't need to be at a draw weight somebody ordered. I got too much going on to have to make additional calculations. It is more clear, but most of the guys I deal with would rather have the draw weight right, and the length right.
Post by: Crittergetter on January 11, 2019, 05:32:29 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 11, 2019, 07:24:55 PM
Post by: Bow man on January 12, 2019, 06:35:40 AM
Henry is at the ATA in louieville KY. this weekend. If anyone is going there you might ask him some ???s
I was there talked with them. Not sure what will happen they say they are aware of the issue. He said they are working on it. I have always found Henry a bit arrogant, But that just may be him having a trouble with the language difference so not sure if he even believes there is a problem or not
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 12, 2019, 08:02:32 AM
Post by: kennym on January 12, 2019, 08:17:59 AM
Post by: skeaterbait on January 12, 2019, 08:33:06 AM
It is def clear!! :thumbsup: And if it stays constant, I don't mind adding 4# to stack. From what I can tell it doesn't make much diff on performance.
I am completely in agreement with you Kenny (cuz I build soooo many bows per year :laughing: ) but I have to say I am concerned about consistency. I think it's been mentioned earlier but are we sure that it will always be a 4# addition the stack for say a 45# bow? Or will the next one have to add 6#.
Post by: kennym on January 12, 2019, 08:50:19 AM
Post by: skeaterbait on January 12, 2019, 09:18:16 AM
Hence the comment: "And if it stays constant, I don't mind adding 4# to stack." :o :biglaugh:
Oh sure if you read it that way :goldtooth:. I took it to mean if the clarity stays constant. :banghead:
Post by: Bow man on January 12, 2019, 10:34:12 AM
Post by: kennym on January 12, 2019, 10:36:38 AM
Tim Cosgrove said some bowyers Black widow for intance say it has also been inconsistant with in a roll. Some bows have been light some have came out heavy. But it is very clear that we love. Just wish Gordons would up there game but I don't see that happening. Would rather buy a US product
YUP !!
Post by: Flem on January 12, 2019, 11:23:19 AM
Tim Cosgrove said some bowyers Black widow for intance say it has also been inconsistant with in a roll. Some bows have been light some have came out heavy. But it is very clear that we love. Just wish Gordons would up there game but I don't see that happening. Would rather buy a US product
Don't hold your breath on this one. Gordon composites was bought by PolyOne corporation in 2016. It's quite a large corp. with manufacturing locations throughout the World! Like any large corp. they will be looking to increase profits at some point and that means moving the manufacturing out of this country.
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 12, 2019, 11:33:35 AM