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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: dixiearcher on November 29, 2018, 09:34:18 PM

Title: Short osage stave
Post by: dixiearcher on November 29, 2018, 09:34:18 PM

This may be a blasphemous question, but I am on a quest to build a short bow for blinds/treestands (52-56" and 40-45# @26.5"). I have been researching various laminated options and had a wild idea. I have a seasoned osage stave and was wondering if I could turn that into a bow the length I want by backing it with fiberglass or something else? I am not a professional and don't have a large budget, I just want a bow that is functional and fun. Anybody have any experience or ideas? Would it be better do leave the stave for another day and invest in the parts to do a laminated bow?

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: KenH on November 29, 2018, 10:07:47 PM

With an Osage stave, why would you want/need to back it with anything?  That long of bow can certainly get you that draw length and weight without backing.  And I don't consider 52"-56" a short bow.  Most of my bows are 48" in that draw range, others even shorter.  The tribes of the Pacific Northwest built wide, short  "paddle bows" from 32" to 42" with draw weights up to 50# at 20-26".  They were designed for close range hunting in the seriously thick undergrowth of the Temperate Rainforest in the PNW. 

Have you ever carved a bow from a stave before? 

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: dixiearcher on November 29, 2018, 10:09:48 PM

No I have never worked a stave before. I love the idea of a 48" or shorter bow though. Would you happen to have some pictures or plans I could see?

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: dixiearcher on November 29, 2018, 10:10:41 PM

I know it doesn't have to be backed, I just want to increase my chances of success on my first build

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: fujimo on November 29, 2018, 10:13:32 PM

as a bend thru the handle bow , you should quite comfortably be able to get a 52-54" bow to suit your 26" draw.
flipping the tips will help a bunch too.
sinew-ing the bow might be a great option.
i have seen it reported by many sinew experts, that in order to gain the max from sinew, anything over 55 to 60" is  not advantageous. sure it provides security and strength, but with the extra mass, and the sinew not being stretched to its max potential- a lot is lost- just quoting here! :)
but your bow would fall in that short category very nicely- i would refrain from the glass.
sinew can be very cheap or free- and there are folk on here that do a lot of it, and can guide you.

glass, with polyester resin is not a good deal- resin to glass ratio is too high, polyester wont stick to wood well, (epoxy would be the right thing, but its expensive.) and a lot of extra weight will be induced with transverse fibers sucking up resin, but not working, unless of course if you use uni directional glass.
glass should be laid up under tension, for optimal performance- which will be hard to do on an undulating bow back.
it will give you some security but i would rather use rawhide for back protection, or sinew and hide glue for optimal performance and security.

a bend thru the handle with flipped tips and some sinew would be an awesome bow- at your drawlength!!

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: fujimo on November 29, 2018, 10:14:29 PM

there Ken has some good info!! :thumbsup:

also remember that backing wont cover up bad design or bad tillering.
i would consider building a board bow or two- to get a handle on tillering, then work up to a stave.
i bet you could get a hickory board bow to do what you need as a start!!

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: Pat B on November 29, 2018, 10:29:52 PM

Adding a glass backing would probably decrease the durability of an osage bow. Like was said above, a 56" osage bow doesn't need a backing but you could recurve the tips and add a sinew backing.

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: neuse on November 30, 2018, 07:58:05 AM

Dixiearcher, I am there with you.

I have two short Osage staves I am working on now, I have hitting a stopping point because I am not sure how to proceed.
I need to learn how to post pictures so that I could ask for advice.

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 30, 2018, 08:05:39 AM

Link below, Rob's second post explains posting pictures.


http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=160865.0

Also on you tube, there are many videos on making self bows.

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 30, 2018, 08:44:38 AM

An experienced bowyer could probably get 26" out of a 54-56" osage stave.
A first timer would do well to double his draw and add 10" ntn.
Jawge

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: dixiearcher on November 30, 2018, 08:51:40 AM

May be a dumb question, but what do you mean by "double his draw?"

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 30, 2018, 09:10:43 AM

Im sending this 44 in. stave to a friend in New Mexico this morning he will get 2 44 in bendys out of it and sinew back them he typicly gets 22-26 in. draw out of that size but even non backed with quality osage probably could safely go 23 in. or more but wouldnt be as fast as the sinew counter part !

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 30, 2018, 09:15:14 AM

I  moved back to Pa:)

 :laughing:

Double your draw and add 10 inches means double the length of your draw and add 10 inches to that and that is the length bow you should make.

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: KenH on November 30, 2018, 09:28:12 AM

Paddle bow Specs:

Often they were made with Yew, Maple, Juniper, Ash -- woods common in the Pacific Northwest.  Often they were sinew backed which helps 'save' less than stellar quality woods.  Working with sinew and hide or fish glues is a smelly, nasty business, but raw flax (not linen) and Titebond in this type of bow will work just as well, cost considerably less and not get you thrown out of the house!

Here are the dimensions for a Hupa style paddle bow:
Width ------- at handle 1-11/16" -- at mid-limb 2-1/4" -- at pin nock 11/16"
Thickness --- at handle 3/8"       -- at mid-limb 5/16" -- at pin nock 5/16"  (virtually the same thickness tip-to-tip

Here's a site that specializes in making them, for some shape ideas.
primitive-bows.com/tag/paddle-bow

There is a fair amount of info on the 'net if you search on "Modoc Bow"

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: BMorv on November 30, 2018, 09:46:02 AM

Yeah check out some of the other bows Simon has built on that link that Ken posted.  He has done some amazing things with short pieces of osage.  I wouldn't call them beginner bows though. 

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: dixiearcher on November 30, 2018, 10:05:02 AM

Quote from: Roy from Pa on November 30, 2018, 09:15:14 AM

I  moved back to Pa:)

 :laughing:

Double your draw and add 10 inches means double the length of your draw and add 10 inches to that and that is the length bow you should make.

Haha ok gotcha!

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: Eric Krewson on November 30, 2018, 10:19:31 AM

I lot of folk transition from glass bows to selfbows and want to bring the glass bow mentality along with the change, I did but got over it.

I have shot up to a 68" bow out of a treestand and except for straight down I didn't have a problem with the longer limbs.

Like has been said you can make a bendy handle bow with flipped tips but this is not a beginners journey to embark on.

Learn bow making on a bunch of boards then tackle your hopped up treestand bow.

Title: Re: Short osage stave
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 30, 2018, 05:05:06 PM

dixie, 26" (2) + 10= 62"
Jawge