Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Forwardhandle on November 08, 2018, 03:50:30 PM
-
I have used acetone to clean up my last two bow lams & glass but having a delam on one that I suspect was a form pressure problem but you really never know so it has me second guessing my procedure & I would like to skip the acetone on the bow I'm doing this week end ,I know some guys just blow there's off with air but my compressor is a small portable and don't trust it not to spit oil , any suggestions ? or how do you guys do it ? These lams have been setting for a couple weeks so was going to give them a quick wisk with a 320 grit sanding sponge ,would a stiff clean brush work to clean them ?
-
I use denatured alcohol.
-
I have built 3 bows by just brushing them off with a somewhat stiff bristled brush. This is how they suggest prepping the lams in the Bingham’s instructional videos. My bows have all turned out fine.
-
I wipe the glass down with acetone and just brush the lams off. I never put acetone on the wood lams.
-
Thanks guys the only acetone I have is the big box kind that I read is not pure type so I'm Leary of using it , maybe I'm over thinking it a bit but never hurts to ask , I was almost thinking of using the leaf blower to blow them off no oil in it but I will pick up a stiff brush tomorrow maybe hit one of the higher end paint stores and see if the have pure acidtone !
-
I just use a shop vac with bristle attachment. I'm not a big fan of blowing off dust as the smaller dust particles will then be in the air and take a while to settle back down.
-
For me no chemicals on the wood. Blow off or a stiff brush. Never thought of using a vac to. Wipe the glass with acetone.
-
Wipe the glass with acetone.
WHAT?
Glass?
Geeze oh man...
-
Got a lot of good ideas here glad I posted I called the auto parts store the have some duplicate color pure acetone for paint I will pick up tomorrow to clean the glass & carbon thanks guys!
-
This has me thinking..
I use unibond800 glue, which is water soluble..
I probably should be using a damp water cloth to wipe down the wood lams instead of denatured alcohol..
And that would make the lams slightly damp which could increase the glue adhesion?
Not that I have any problems with glue joints now..
-
This is the first time using carbon lams for me but was setting every thing up and noticed this carbon is a real dust magnet it seems to attract fuzz maybe static elec. the vac is a good Idea , plus would help pick up the sanding dust from freshening up the lams
-
What kind of wood did you use??? They say that some oily woods are difficult to glue and some believe that acetone only brings more oil to the surface... I personally try to stay away from oily woods... Otherwise acetone or alcohol on fiberglass is ok... Be aware of what you touch and how clean your hands are... I always wash my hands before glue-up and organizing lams and riser...
I also use a brush for applying ea-40... I am more comfortable with it and a brush will not scrape the glue dry like a squeegee... If I was to use a squeegee I would definitely slot the middle of it to make sure there is enough adhesive on your work... They only have to be very small slots... Just enough to leave a little extra glue... And of course I don't like going over 40psi... :laugh:
-
In my experience solvents draw more oils to the surface. I don't build glass bows but for wood a freshly sanded surface that has had the sanding dust brushed off is the best glue surface. On the glass I'd use a solvent like acetone or alcohol to remove any hand oil or manufacturing debris that might be on it.
-
Thanks Fellas after a lot of investigating my issue ,here is my conclusion the number one issue that was the root cause is I glued up with a experimental topless form & after being in the oven for a while with increasing pressure popped some of the wood pegs unfortunately didn't catch it for about 45 min but retied it and it seemed fine ,I'm guessing at about 150 arrows the bow let lose , but possible other culprits I use big box acetone on every thing and the riser was a particularly resignie future wood , the limbs where my favorite maple ,this one I'm only using 100% pure acetone & only doing the glass and carbon with it ,like I said you have a delam and every thing becomes suspect...lol
-
I've been following this with interest since I have been having a problem that I'm wanting to solicit opinions on. After going through this topic so far I may have confirmed a suspicion I've had lately regarding acetone. I have been trying to trace the source of this problem for a long time now. Three of my clear glass layups have come off with these odd looking "things" for lack of a better word.
They have shown up in both bear paw and gordon glass layups. None have had a problem with pressure during curing. At first I thought it was not enough glue but the next two were done with way more glue than needed plus previous layups with my usual amount of glue have not shown any of these "things". The thing they all had in common was wiping down with acetone and it raised suspicions. Now when you all talk about this water component of acetone it is suddenly an "aha moment" (to borrow from Oprah :biglaugh: ). I have always waited to the last minute to wipe the lams down and that is the case with the two examples you will see below. Acetone being as aromatic as it is and evaporating so fast I've always been under the impression that it simply dissapears almost immediately. Consequently, I have been applying glue within about five or ten minutes of the wipe down. Maybe even sooner! :scared:
So, all, please tell me if you think what you see in the two photos below might be residual moisture or even residual acetone that has settled between the lams and the glass after layup?
It so far does not seem to influence the integrity of the bows. Two are shooting regularly and one is just coming out of the finishing stage. But, they are just not acceptable and the solution must be found!
So, here are the two pictures. Please tell me what you think.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
-
Mike I don't know if this will help but the acetone I bought today duplicate-color brand says it's 100% pure but says on the instructions to wait 30 min. for evaporation ,I like you thought acetone evaporates in minutes but the kind I used before was the big box kind probably had other impurities in it , I'm going to try it out in the morning , you can get it at Orilys auto parts stores it's only 2 bucks more then the big box kind !
-
Looks a little resin starved or air bubbles... I would try putting a little extra resin under your glass lams and when you air up I would only go to ten psi... Wait about fifteen to thirty minutes and then air it up to 20psi for three minutes then air it up to 30 for three minutes and so on...
What this does is gives the resin a chance to soak into the wood and thicken a bit and by giving it time between air-ups you are giving it some time for trapped air to escape...
-
Air bubbles. Dont care who you are its gonna happen sometimes for no reason. Even if you done everything right. NOOO acetone on your wood parts. and plenty dry time on the glass.
-
Next lay up will be done without acetone.
-
A lot of good info here I'm learning a lot from this thread , I really didn't know you where not supposed to use the acetone on the wood lams to , but I'm pretty much learning this craft from reading & what I learn hear and a few guys on the side , Thanks to the experienced guys for posting helps more then you know at least save me another lesson in hard knocks...lol ,got to try out the new pure acetone it evaporates faster & doesent smell as bad as the cheaper kind it will be my go to for all future bows !
-
I've always used denatured alcohol and never had a problem. I've heard that acetone can draw out the oils in wood, not sure about glass or carbon.
-
I used the denatured stuff and add color to stain Aboo so it wont bother adhesion. Never tried it on an oily wood. My guess is that if you remove surface oil more will come up.
-
I used denatured alcohol too for a long time with no problems. I used acetone because it seemed to evaporate faster but if it leaves H20 behind that might take hours to clear out.
I'm going back to alcohol AND will let them dry over night.
-
We use acetone at work on a regular basis. We use it to evaporate water as it mixes readily with water and evaporates much quicker than alcohol.
I’m not sure how the oils in woods are effected by either one.
-
I've always used denatured alcohol and never had a problem. I've heard that acetone can draw out the oils in wood, not sure about glass or carbon.
I have read online that acetone is the way to go. Interesting post.
-
I just use a stiff brush to clean off any dust and never had any problems.
-
I use acetone on all surfaces wood and glass ...always . Use a clean cotton cloth and look what comes off the glass and wood . Acetone does not bring out the oils it washes them off . Bringing up the oil was what OL said on one of these sites once and everybody repeated it . You need to clean everything and keep things clean as you glue every part should be laid out on clean white paper and washed before gluing .
I think you are having another problem with the delam other than acetone.
-
If oily woods delam on you it most likely the MC is too high. Still not using chemicals on wood parts.