Post by: klr650Teach on October 06, 2018, 12:08:03 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 06, 2018, 12:16:05 PM
Post by: Pat B on October 06, 2018, 03:34:19 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 06, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
Using these types of materials.......how many layers is recommended? As a first build I'll be more concerned with security than performance. I'd like to have success on the first build. I have lots of woodworking experience including years of carving experience.
I would use Titebond III also, plus it dries up slower giving more working time if a person needs it. But I've not found it here in Mexico.
The brown grocery bags you mentioned - were those plastic or the old style brown paper bag type? You did not specify. Thanks
Post by: Pat B on October 06, 2018, 10:11:07 PM
We can buy silk neck ties here for a dollar or 2 at used clothes shops. Not only do you get the protection but also a cool design for your bow. :shaka:
You should be able to find goat rawhide there in Mexico. Goat rawhide is thin and very strong. Maybe at a saddle shop.
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 07, 2018, 07:06:23 AM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 07, 2018, 03:34:47 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 07, 2018, 03:44:46 PM
Brown paper bags. It is amazingly strong when saturated with the glue. Any good carpenters glue will work. Only one layer is needed. More than that can detract from the bow's cast.
We can buy silk neck ties here for a dollar or 2 at used clothes shops. Not only do you get the protection but also a cool design for your bow. :shaka:
You should be able to find goat rawhide there in Mexico. Goat rawhide is thin and very strong. Maybe at a saddle shop.
I like the silk tie idea. I've seen some pretty weird and wacked out ties in the past. Some others that could suffice a pretty decent cammo pattern. The brown paper and other materials, could they be cut up and glued on in a patchwork sort of pattern just to break up a pattern or perhaps create a pattern or would this too affect the bow's cast?
Also, once glue is applied to the wood of the bow and the backing laid down is another layer of glue needed for the top side of the backing to have it saturated with glue from both under and above?
Post by: Pat B on October 07, 2018, 04:23:31 PM
The paper should be saturated. Size the bows back with the glue, lay the paper(silk, linen) on the limb and add glue over that. Work out air bubbles and glue pockets and remove any excess glue. Let it cure for 24 hours.
Post by: Wolftrail on October 07, 2018, 04:55:26 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 07, 2018, 10:13:06 PM
Seriously why does Backing have to be Natural...? We are using man made glues, strings etc.....who cares. I have good success using polyester backing, its stronger than a thin silk tie or paper bag. Polyester is very strong and you can find thin material if you shop around. They use poly in tires why not a bow..!
Don't go away.........I'm all ears. Polyester in what form? What materials are easily had in this stuff? Do tell and please be thorough........I want to learn here. I have no objection to any material except those that are toxic. As long as they work..............why fix it right? I'd prefer natural, but I'm open to anything that works.
Post by: inksoup on October 08, 2018, 03:02:36 AM
best.
Post by: fujimo on October 08, 2018, 11:42:09 AM
however i have seen many folk build bows with that polyester tape thats used for drywalling.
i agree with wolf, we use so many synthetic glues, and electricity to power our tools etc, but i guess we just have to do what we feel comfortable with.
anyway, i thought i had better do some very quick research, and found this.
however my first choice of backing would be thin rawhide, and Roy's suggestion is excellent
(http://i.imgur.com/fxZ0m52.png) (https://imgur.com/fxZ0m52)
Post by: Wolftrail on October 08, 2018, 12:45:33 PM
Seriously why does Backing have to be Natural...? We are using man made glues, strings etc.....who cares. I have good success using polyester backing, its stronger than a thin silk tie or paper bag. Polyester is very strong and you can find thin material if you shop around. They use poly in tires why not a bow..!
Don't go away.........I'm all ears. Polyester in what form? What materials are easily had in this stuff? Do tell and please be thorough........I want to learn here. I have no objection to any material except those that are toxic. As long as they work..............why fix it right? I'd prefer natural, but I'm open to anything that works.
I have used silk, paper and linen. Linen seemed ok. I noticed that silk breaks easy. Raw hide is hard to find in our parts or I would use it no problem. :archer2:
Check your local fabric shop or Walmart for polyester.
Post by: fujimo on October 08, 2018, 01:49:39 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 08, 2018, 02:29:02 PM
however my first choice of backing would be thin rawhide, and Roy's suggestion is excellent
(http://i.imgur.com/fxZ0m52.png) (https://imgur.com/fxZ0m52)
I saw Roy's link, but not a comment or suggestion. What was it?
Post by: klr650Teach on October 08, 2018, 02:33:59 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 08, 2018, 02:46:38 PM
Can you get tung oil there?
Post by: Pat B on October 08, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
Post by: fujimo on October 08, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
maybe access to a saddle shop/ saddler would procure some.
also, rawhide is very easy to "make" if you can find someone who is butchering a goat.
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 08, 2018, 05:00:56 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 08, 2018, 09:04:33 PM
Linseed oil from that list.
Can you get tung oil there?
I'm not sure Roy, I've not seen it. I'll look up what the name is in Spanish and keep an eye out in the hardware store next visit. Is it superior to linseed oil?
I have purified raw linseed oil here that has all the fats that go rancid over time removed and then washed 4-5 more times. It is a very light golden color when finished and dries much faster than regular linseed oil.
Post by: klr650Teach on October 08, 2018, 09:08:52 PM
Be sure to use boiled linseed oil. Raw takes a long time to dry. Can you get poly varnish? Water based or oil base will work.
Hi Pat, as stated in my reply to Roy you will know the linseed oil I use. Poly Varnish? Varnish I can get. What is "Poly"? polyester, polyvynle , polyeurothane? Poly"what"? Sorry to be a pain. As I'll have to translate this into Spanish for the store owner I must know exactly what it is. Thanks
Post by: klr650Teach on October 08, 2018, 09:16:08 PM
roy,s suggestion of using goat rawhide, as its so thin and very tough.
maybe access to a saddle shop/ saddler would procure some.
also, rawhide is very easy to "make" if you can find someone who is butchering a goat.
I had explained to Roy in a PM that I have lots of tanning experience mostly with Brain and Bark tanning methods. Making rawhide I can do with my eyes closed. My Mexican neighbor just told me he had thrown out several goat skins because he had too many of them but assured me he would let me know when he had more. Eventually I will be able to get some goat skin. At this rate it could be months before I gather all the materials. I will be keeping my eyes open for silk ties. I think they will be much easier to source this time around. But you never know.
Just thought of something else. Can a silk tie be dyed a different color? Any idea what a person would use?
Post by: Pat B on October 08, 2018, 11:15:57 PM
Post by: inksoup on October 11, 2018, 07:14:29 AM
Seriously why does Backing have to be Natural...? We are using man made glues, strings etc.....who cares. I have good success using polyester backing, its stronger than a thin silk tie or paper bag. Polyester is very strong and you can find thin material if you shop around. They use poly in tires why not a bow..!
when you say polyester do you mean this?
(http://www.erguvanambalaj.com/images/page/polyester-cember-1.jpg)
does this act like fiberglass?
it is strong as fiberglass? i mean, in fiberglass bow, nearly 70-80% of bow weight comes from fiberglass.
best.
Post by: klr650Teach on October 11, 2018, 11:10:51 AM
Post by: KenH on October 11, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
Post by: Pat B on October 11, 2018, 01:16:22 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 11, 2018, 03:35:21 PM
"Tung" has no translation. Tung oil is "aceite de tung"
tung oil is "aceite de lengua" if using the the spelling of tongue in English which I guess is different again.
Post by: klr650Teach on October 11, 2018, 03:39:47 PM
Any material that can be saturated with glue will work, some better than others. George Tsoukalas uses burlap with good results. I've only used rawhide, linen or silk
Pat, today I bought two silk ties and each are of similar color patterns and also found proper white wood glue (not water resistant). I thought that if one tie was not enough that I could use part of the second tie or the whole tie for the second limb. If I made a pyramid bow I might have enough to back the whole bow with one tie. And the finish I put on the bow will seal it.
Would there be any problem with overlapping the material if say I had to use two shorter pieces on one limb? Rather than butting two edges against one another??
Post by: Pat B on October 11, 2018, 04:34:47 PM
Post by: Flem on October 11, 2018, 05:30:12 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 17, 2018, 04:12:56 PM
It strikes me like the hide in a rawhide chew bone would be thicker than what might be ideal, this led me to wonder about the bark tanned deer hide I have which is less than 1/8 inch thick with the grain not removed.
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 17, 2018, 04:23:43 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 17, 2018, 04:26:23 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 17, 2018, 04:28:03 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 17, 2018, 05:01:30 PM
Top photo is of the hair/grain side
Bottom photo is the flesh side
Unlike brain tanned deer hide that has a lot of stretch, bark tanned deer hide has very little stretch and is more suitable for making pouches, purses, possibles bags etc. Not so great for clothing as there isn't much give for movement.
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 17, 2018, 05:27:52 PM
Post by: klr650Teach on October 17, 2018, 05:43:44 PM
Put the bottom picture against the bow is my guess.
Smoother surface = better adhesion?
And should I size both the wood and the leather letting them go tacky before marrying the two and final backing?
Post by: Pat B on October 17, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
Deer or goat rawhide are both excellent for backing because they are thin and strong.
Post by: klr650Teach on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM