Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Crooked Stic on August 30, 2018, 04:10:45 PM
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I got this one well under way. quite a few pics to post when closer to a glueup.
(https://i.imgur.com/nvu8QXO.jpg)
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Is this a new design stic?
What length?
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That looks like Kenny's FHLB to me what length are you going ? I like how you exstended your top form, I didn't do it on the R/D form and wish I had looking forward to seeing what comes out of yours !
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One of those wacky moments. I saw the title FHLBow by Crooked Stick; and immediately thought
"Bow made from a Florida Hockey League stick??????".
We now return you to your personal alternate reality....
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Florida has a hockey league?????
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Florida has a hockey league?????
Yeah, but the locals call it swimming.
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No sir glass in this hockey sticks too stiff. Yes Kennys template. I did not extend the top. That is how it was after cutting apart. going for 60 in. Working on the riser fit. I made two profiling jigs> one for the front and one for the fades. Will post pics later.
(https://i.imgur.com/J0kWkDV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8gARewi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6CV29Ah.jpg)
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Very nice you will love the 60'' it's my fastets long bow I have & surprisingly shoots heavy arrows well for a short bow looking forward to your build !
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The riser fade jig. I do one end and flip the riser so both ends turn out the same.
(https://i.imgur.com/TnRsfJL.jpg)
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Looks good Mike!! :thumbsup:
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Looking good, nice riser jig.
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Thanks. I got this one well under way. Going for 45 lbs. and it came in at 44.44 so the stacks are really close. I went ahead and put the Kenny M superlam in this one. I am pretty impressed with how this limb profile looks. And the fade tiller was dead on right out of the form. Have not got a chrono but this thing seems to smoke an arrow at my 26 in. draw. Feels a few lbs than it is also. I left the grip small. May add a little more on the belly side of the sight window area on the next one. Sleek and sexy.
(https://i.imgur.com/7MayLM6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QENG1Wy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/r8mTbWz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CBg1iI5.jpg)
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That is looking really nice. I am anticipating some full draw pics soon :thumbsup:
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Looking good looks like your riser wood choice :thumbsup:
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Very nice, Mike.
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Thanks guys. Do the tips today and final sanding. Hmmmm 70 today :scared:
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70?
58 here and we have had 6 inches of rain in 2 days and still coming down...
I need plans to build an ark:)
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Mike, do you use a router to make your jigs? I like the looks of them.
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The more you guys post stuff on these FH bows the more anxious I get for mine to show up. Can’t wait until I get my shop more setup and start in on the mad scientist side of these.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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beachbowhunter I usally make the initial shape with 1/2 plywood. When I get it perfect or near so I wiil build the bottom of the jig and use that for a template and route the base. Then add .220 plexiglass to the bottom side and route it. The plexi is for the guide wheel to run on. Getting a good fit on the jigs can be frustrating. Gonna try to put up a video shooting this one when it is done.
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70 years old 9 10 48 :goldtooth:
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Yer just a pup:)
I hit 70 back in June...
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I sometimes feel like a beat dog.
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Crooked stic, looks great! Happy birthday. I am awaiting materials to start one of these as well! Looks great! I'm a September birthday as well... but a few years behind. Thanks for sharing your project!
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Happy birthday Monday Mike and Friday Jake!! :thumbsup:
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Happy Birth day guys Im glad to see more of these bows coming around I cant put my finger on it but there about the most fun building these I have had in a while maybe the sexy curves 😃
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Got this one done yesterday. these things are shooters for sure. Going to try and do a video with it today. Not sure how to post that here though??
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Load the video to youtube, then copy and paste the url for it here.
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Okay lets see if this is gonna work.
https://youtu.be/-5NuSqJF9wA
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Worked well!! Looks great!!
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Looks great sounds great peppy little stick ! :thumbsup:
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Thought you had an endless arrow supply tho!! :biglaugh:
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Any pics of that riser with the finish on you can share? Looks great!
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:thumbsup:
Good job, Mike..
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Riser
(https://i.imgur.com/72G75ti.jpg)
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Very sharp, Mike.
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Thanks.
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Mike Thanks for posting the vid I watched about 20 times frizzing it to compare tiller on my bows , but the bigest impression I get is your having fun shooting that little stick :goldtooth:
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:clapper: :clapper: :thumbsup:
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Yellowwod I am only pulling about 26 in. so there is a lot left in that bow.
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Yep for sure Mike Im pulling 31 in. on my 60 in. in the mid 190s fps they are fun bows to shoot couldnt put mine down tell I got 800 arrows....lol
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SWEET!!
As you said Mike there's a lot more in that bow for a longer draw...
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When I did the dfc on it , it went to 32" at a steady 3 ppi and I ran out of arrow and no assistant to go any farther!!
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Very nice Mike.
I heard the bells ringing in your video and thought that you had added a sound track.
-Tim Y
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Mike, Happy belated seventieth Birthday.
I'm intrigued with your riser jig. After clamping the riser into the jig do you use a router-table with a straight bit to shape it? And does the guide bearing follow the lower 3/4" plywood form?
I've been trying to make the riser for my (KennyM) D/R longbow...screwed up some nice pieces of wood trying to even out the fades.
-Tim Y
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Nope router will get you in trouble.Dont ask. I have a profile sander and the guide wheel runs on plexiglass on the bottom of the jig. You just have to free hand the first riser and jig together. Do one end and flip it to get them the same. The tip overlay jig still has MDF on the bottom instead of plexi.
(https://i.imgur.com/K6pNXkt.jpg?1)
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The blue form above may be up for grabs less hardware. I redid another with the belly against the form. I will know in a few days.
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Ok the blue form is available no cost you pay shipping. I would rather someone use than me pitch it.
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Pm sent
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sounds like the FHLB bug bit you preety good there Mike :goldtooth:
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Mike, you making one long enough to do a 64" ?
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I think I can get a 62 out of it. I am liking the 60 pretty good though. The light weight one came off the new form yesterday. Going to do a 60 for a buddy next.
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Mike if you do a 62 in. please post it Im working on one now , what weight is light weight ?
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Well between me and Kenny we come up with a stack for 30 lbs. and it came out 27.5. So I cut it down to 58 in. and got three more lbs. so .275 will get you a bit over 30 with 58 in. bow. I will probably try a 62 later on. I have a couple others to do right now. The OD green form. You can see the top part in the background in one pic and the bow in the overlay form in the other. Need to do major shop cleaning :scared:
(https://i.imgur.com/zJZiKYH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B2nVkqB.jpg)
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Hey Mike you got any more Pics off the new form ? I know you been cranking out :o
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Yeah I got one with top coats on it and another I am working on. I will get pics today. I am in a walnut and cherry mode right now.
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Here you go A few pics of a couple off the OD form. The shiny one I was going for 30@28 and got 27.5. So I piked it two ins and got a finished weight of 29.5@28. these seem pretty peppy. A shot of the second one with grip overlays curing.
(https://i.imgur.com/TReKehs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nmu6Pgl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eo1Zydt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/F3iVcRE.jpg)
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Looks awsome Mike :thumbsup:
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Very nice Mike.
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Lookin good Mike!
Couple Questions tho…
What is an OD form?
And why do yo like the belly up on form?
Just curious....
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Kenny OD green------ To be honest I was having a heck of a time getting a glue line I liked around that serious hump. When the hump is up the hose will do the work there.
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Ahh thanks
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Annnnd retired guys need something to do :bigsmyl:
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Mike what stack order did you use I put 2 parallels & glass under the riser then superlam up the ramps followed by another parallel & glass and had no issue for a tight fit ?
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The last one from belly up
glass
veneer
superlam
stable core
riser
parallel
veneer
glass
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Good deal I got stable core for this 62 in. I have never used it but I thought it needed to be directly under the glass but it sounds like you can put it any where in the stack ?
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I have done a couple with it under clear glass. looks kinda like carbon.
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I got a chance to do a little more research found it was fairly popular to put it up the ramps like you did , but was said it's a neutral core material that can be used where you want, I'm doing it like yours, I'm curious what width you left that bow ? I'm planing to narrow this 62 in. up as much as I can , I would bet that light weight of yours is a light rocket wish you had a chrono, I would let you use mine but your about 300 miles from here...lol
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They most times clean up at 1 7/16s. I have went to 1 3/8s before and the weight did not suffer.
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Here is another FH Kenny bow! Just got her finished up this weekend and up in a whitetail stand already, shoots great and is fun to shoot!
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Looks great Mike whats the specs on that one trying to keep up to speed as fast as your cranking them out :biglaugh:
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Good looking bow Jacob. What wood is that slab?
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Thanks! The slab is cherry from my family orchard. I've started chainsaw milling some, it is what the veneers are on this bow!
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Very nice, Jake..
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Yeah I though it was cherry.
I had a bit of a set back this morning. I got this next bow ready to string up to check the weight and crack. Had another recently to do the same but I blamed it on the blue form thinking I did not have the riser a perfect enough fit. The light weight was walnut and cherry but different walnut for veneers. Both the bad ones have the same veneers and failed the same way. Looks like the walnut did not hold well. Posted this on FB Bowyers corner and find that a few people have had problems with walnut to glass bonding. Dont think its a moisture problem as I have had that piece for years on the top shelf. Funny thing is I had the tillering blocks on this one checking for the strong limb and nothing cracked then. :scared:
(https://i.imgur.com/raLSp2H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vHWCwpd.jpg)
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Damn, Mike.
That sucks...
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Dang it, that is so frustrating.
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Wow sorry to here Mike !
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Dang it!! I've used walnut quite a bit for cores and next to glass too, but haven't had any probs with it.
Had a red elm blow up but I was using the thinner glue that Binghams used to (maybe still do) sell and they told me the red elm was thirsty and prob had a dry spot. It did have one about dime size so the bow never went anywhere and never even loaned it out. When it went off it was fairly spectacular.... Used EA 40 ever since...
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Was the walnut edge or flat grain?
I’ve used walnut in several bows, a couple against the glass. I haven’t had any problems. All of mine were edge grain.
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It was flat. .027 veneers. I have used walnut before to including the bow right before this one. I feel it was something about this particular piece being another bow with it failed also.
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Could have been, I know some big bowyers use Jatoba in a lot of their bows, but my experience with it made me uneasy about using it again.
Like you , I think it wat just that piece, but I haven't used it since....
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It seems the lighter colored walnut is usually lighter in weight. So I would assume more porous. This would make it weaker and soak up more glue.
I would assume that flat grain would open up even more of the pores and allow more glue to soak in. No proof, just thoughts. :dunno:
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Gonna glue another tomorrow walnut and cherry again. not the same veneer piece though. :cheesy:
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Bet this one comes out great. Sometimes things go south for no good reason.
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There is always a reason things go south, just some times it's hard to figure out ,in my case I usaly start by looking in the mirror :biglaugh:
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Ok got the next one out of the form and squared up. Put on the tillering blocks and pulled it several time no cracking :shaka:
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Glad to here that ! :o
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So far.
(https://i.imgur.com/1dakhZG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C7hEA86.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IO15ayk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qARXqPL.jpg)
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:thumbsup:
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Question Mike...
When you put the tiller blocks on , are the limbs full width? And if so, could that put undue pressure at fades since the outer limbs aren't working much (too stiff)?
Just thinkin....
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I never thought about it Kenny. My guess is maybe if you had a real heavy weight may be. I dont really pull them to full draw with the blocks. Just finding the strong limb and exercising it 15 in. or so. They are not any benefit for longbow tillering anyway.
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It probably doesn’t bother anything if not pulled any. Just thinkin....
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Just my 2 cents on this design , I dont think going to brace at full width would over stress it , but I think the majority of the work load is done by the inner limbs on this bow so any minor inperfection in the riser/inners/fades is going to show up ,qualified comment from the university school of hard knocks :biglaugh: Mike you using stable kore on that one to ?
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No stable core in this one. I had the lams ground out before I remembered I had a piece to put in it. I do think this design can benefit from it though.
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Mike, where do you place the strong limb and why?
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Mike if you rember how does the SK figure in your stack draw weight wise ? Im making some mods to my stack ? also my 60 in. has no SK and its a great bow !
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SK ?? Roy strong limb will be the bottom for split finger 1/8th at the fades. even for three under. Not sure it even matters. can be fixed with nocking point adjustment.
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Stable Kore !
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Mike let me say it this way my core was designed 48 lb @31 including 1 peace of stabil kore .042 glass, I'm changing the stack .030 ul clear over stabil kore so that will be addition of another peace of stabil kore the stack will change about .004 thicker I realize I should pick up a little weight but going to narrow front view 1 1/4 so my question is , is this stabil kore really neutral as claimed or did you pick up aditional weight ?
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Are you using the stabil core to increase speed? My understanding it helped with torsional stability. I haven't used it so far.
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Yes sorta of every sense Mike mentioned it I like the idea and when I saw the cool weave in it I wanted to use it for looks and the ability to narrow up the limbs and still be stable hoping to increase speed by lowering the mass !
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I would think it helps in a longbow with a lot of reflex. And really good in a curve. And it may help speed if you get a more narrow limb. but you gonna need a chrono to see it.
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Thanks Mike I'm finishing out the 62 in. with the single peace of SK & building another 64 in. with 2 peaces under clear glass , just have to rebuild my topless form with metal pegs tomorrow got a rain day !
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(https://i.imgur.com/Tm5RSN9.jpg)
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I like it to bad they don't make different colors to, Mike is this stuff pre sanded just use as is ?
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Clean it and it is ready.
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Thank you sir 👍🏻
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Here are some pics of the latest one.
(https://i.imgur.com/iMGQPjB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hBD7Kdd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Olzrgof.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GdHhxXy.jpg)
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Looks Great!! :thumbsup:
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I like that wood combo, looks fantastic.
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SWEET !! :thumbsup:
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Hey Mike you been playing with this design for a while now let me ask you this if you dont mind , what do you think on a ruff guess my increase in draw weight would be for incressing my stack .004 on a 62 in. one ? The stack was originaly designed for .042 glass & one peace of stabil-kore ,Im dropping the glass to .030 & adding another peace of stabil-kore ? I wont hold you to it...lol just ruffly ?
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I have no idea. Have not built a 62 yet. My guess is you will loose or gain 6-7 lbs. for 2 in. difference with a bow in the 50lb. range. The stacks Kenny gave me .001 gained or lose a pound. I have not built enough different stacks to know for sure yet.
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There is also a thread on another forum talking about different rolls of Bear Paw glass same thickness having weaker spine and the stacks being off.
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Ok then thanks I will stick to the original plan ,I read the same thing about stabil-kore coming in lighter also , I have not made a 62 only 60,64 the 62 is just about ready to go !
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I don't think those will break on you :thumbsup:
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Ritchie, are those steel rods made from allthread? Can't really see it very well but it seems like that would be the only way you got those nuts on both sides. What is the spacing on them?
Always looking for a better idea on these topless forms.
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Mike I just cut the wood ones off flush & drilled out the centers like a wood bushing & inserted round 3/8 thread stock & put 3/8 tubing over them to dampen the threads from the mule tape I think there 2 in. centers 36 of them in all ,these curvy forms put a lot of compound presures on the wood had 6 of the wood ones break & ruin my bow☹️
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Thanks, that's a bummer to lose a lay up like that! :(
I just set my flat ASL form up with hardwood dowels (mahogoney, I thought they were oak when I bought em :) ). They held up great in my last build at 75# but I think I'm going to follow your lead when converting my RD form.
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Yep better safe then sorry, Mike I also made rods longer in the riser section for the purpose of extra wraps up the ramps should be able to do a dry run tomorrow !
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Looking forward to the run. I'm wondering if the rods might not bend!! What pressure will you use?
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I seriously doubt they'll bend but you never know ,I will run 70 psi , I will post the test over on the Kennym build thread, I dont want to tie up Mr Crooked stics FH thread with form related stuff, sorry Mike (CS) we never go off topic around here 😃
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Not a problem. I guess its OK :deadhorse:
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:goldtooth:
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Mike I have a question for you if you don't mind , on my last 64 in. started my front view taper profile a little over 3 in. Out of the fades figuring I'm right on the edge of the power lam , I'm rethinking that a bit where have you been starting yours ? I'm popping this one out of the form this morning.
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The template I mark with starts the taper about 2 in. past the fade. And by the time it is all cleaned up probably 1 in. past the fade. With the bow milled down to 1 7/16s. starting out.
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All right cool Mike thanks I will try that on this one , just poped it out of the form looks great so far , the metal pegs works awsome and no marks or dimples leaving the zip ties in play over the presure strip !
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The recurve is at a slow pace right now. I have some other stuff going on to. Gonna use some zip ties on this. Gonna rig a flat steel hold down for the riser. Iwill post pics when I get it going.
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Cool look forward to seeing your rig , I'm hoping to get mine stung next week ! If things don't get in my way mainly a 5 ft blonde with honey do list...lol
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Cool look forward to seeing your rig , I'm hoping to get mine stung next week ! If things don't get in my way mainly a 5 ft blonde with honey do list...lol
BE A MAN RITCHIE !!
Tell her OK hon... :biglaugh:
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I usaly do 🤢
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Mike I got this one off the new modified topless form cleaned up looks great very tight joints but I think Im going to like you figure out how to get a tad more pressure in the center its not bad but just want the non working part tighter hoping to get this strung tomorrow snowing here !
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See my opinion on the other forum.
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Damn Rich... Looks like the spittin' image of a bow that a guy made on another forum...
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That guy is a better bowyer then me :biglaugh:
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:biglaugh: Lmao.... Good One...
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Mike what are you figuring your stack FHLB at for the 60 in in terms of thousands in other words what kind of weight drop are you getting per each .001 ? Im doing some recalculating for the next bow it maybe a 60 '' ? Im thinking for figuring the stack with .041 glass I need 38 lb at 28 lb that should ruffly give me 43 lb at my draw then trading .020 of the stack for uni carbon should give me 48-51 lb swag ?
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Never mind I talked to the designer...lol so for every .002 ,1 lb gain/loss so Im figuring 0.285 total with .040 glass should ring me in at 40 lb switching out to .048 4 ply back carbon that who ever you talk to gives you a definitive answer between 5 & 10 lb....lol so my thinking is I'm good ether way 45-50 lb. Keeping the same 0.285 total
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Just redoing my calculations forgot to figure in the extra 2 1/2 in. on the draw oops !
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Ok here is the redo ,60 in 50 lb @28 ,57 lb @30 1/2
Minus .034 .271 40lb@30 1/2 and adding the carbon 5 to 7 lb so Im ether ending up 45 lb or 50 lb I hope ?? Any thoughts ? I will be using the carbon that goes on the back !
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I am confused---you are taking out .034 and adding the carbon. How thick is it? What little carbon I used several years back I think added 15% on the same stack. But all carbon is not created equal.
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No the .040 belly glass & the .048 carbon for the back is figured into the stack at .271 I just don't know how much it adds weight wise probably no more then 10 lb but all swag it's the same carbon backing brush wolf uses I'm just bringing the stack down to 40 lb figuring the carbon is adding 5 to 10'lb.
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So if you go to 40 lb and Mike said what he used added 15% you will have 46# ? Right where you wanna be! :thumbsup:
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Like I said all carbon is not created equal. I may have a couple of pieces of that carbon left over, I will check if you are interested.
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Well forget the backing carbon I thought it was $52 for 2 peaces but that price is for 1 ,36 in. peace forget that Im using the .020 Gordons carbon I have here ! Im putting it in the .271 stack and taking it from there, I could build another bow for the price of that backing carbon !
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I got about 200 arrows threw this one now seems to like the heavy arrows better at least they fly nicer no shock on release light or heavy , been half baked working on the 60 in. between house stuff !
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Who's this Forwardhandle guy???
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Ole yellowwood changed his name:)
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Yep thats my out of the closet gewas name :biglaugh:
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LOL. Change your name on PA if you are truly out....HAHA. You would be banned.
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:laughing:
:o
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Maybe I will , I have been banned from better places ! :laughing:
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I don’t get this English language. As I understand it handle can be a kind of fictive name on a forum, like mine is Buemaker. Now one guy uses the handle Forewardhandle, is this then both a bow handle and a forum handle and how can this be handled without being mishandled? :knothead: Bue got the winter blues.
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Lol. You meant the winter bues?? Right?
Sorry, I guess the corny joke gene passed from my Dad to me
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I will have to process & handle all these thoughts...lol !
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We will have to contemplate and see if we can handle you moving forward with this change.
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:biglaugh:
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Im trying to lay out my riser for the 60 in. this morning but the dark lines on dark wood are playing havoc with my progresive lenses in my glasses, hard to see any lines any body got any ideas for marking thin lines on dark wood , I guess I could cut out a replicate of the templet and glue it on or wait tell the art store opens ?
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I use a silver very thin point marker on dark woods.
Or ya could cover it with blue painters tape and do the line?
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Yep great thought, I will do the tape but green..lol Thanks now I won't say any thing bad about you for a day ! :goldtooth:
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Watch it or I'll change your screen name to "Dainty Little Flower.".
:laughing: :laughing:
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:biglaugh:
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:laughing: :laughing:
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White spray paint? :bigsmyl:
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Awesome that way I can see the actual cut :thumbsup: don't know why I hit the mental block on this one to much honey do jobs :laughing:
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If honey ain't happy..... :o
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I have been doing a lot of thunking on this design & after making a couple of 64" I see the design is barley breathing hard at my 30 1/2 draw so I think after the 60" I'm going to redesign the form with 3/4-1" less deflex for 62-64" bows ,that way I will get additional reflex & lower brace height I think ,but using the same limb profile, I will have to swag the stack but with the additional reflex start with in .020 of the original stack, I will see how it plays out but border line recurve from the drawings ! I here happy Wife happy life daily :knothead:
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I find the Happy Wife / Life statement to be very true... I am happy as hell... Maybe one day I will get to meet her... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Hey Forward... Let's see some drawings... :) :)
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If you want to stay happy dont meet her :laughing: when I get this 60 in. done & still have to throw the 64 in the beauty shop , I will make a mock up & drawing and post , and one thing Im learning about unicarbon is every little bit of mass taking off makes a better return on fps then just glass & wood , Im also thinking 1 1/4 width on the new design with the shorter limbs I will be able to do it I think ! Im thinking 62 in. to start !