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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: arachnid on August 23, 2018, 11:48:15 AM
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Hi Guys.
It takes my quite some time to get the riser to fit the form. I'm thinking a template sander will help speed things up and give me better results. I can't seem to find any plans that doesn't require a drill press (which I don't have).
If anyone built a template sander and willing to share the plans- I'd be grateful.
Thanks
Dor
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With the right bit you could use the same template on a router table. However, be aware that not all woods like routers. Figured woods, for instance, will tear out something awful.
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That's why I don't want to use a router.
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I bought this templet sanding spindle, I use it with my drill press but you could probably chuck it with a motor and make a ply wood table for it , but I don't like it you still have to fine tune the riser after using it any way ,so I just went back to using the spindle sander to the lines and hand lapping to get a good fit [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Dont use a router----dont ask. Never had much luck getting a good Robo Sander. Have you got any sanders to use?
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I built an attachment for my spindle sander and a bunch of templates with cantilever clamps to hold the risers down to a jig for sanding. Works OK at best. I haven't used them in months.
Truthfully, it's less work to just sand to the line manually. I have enough practice now that it doesn't save me any time or improve my accuracy to use the pattern sander.
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Dont use a router----dont ask.
Sounds like you learned the hard way. Just like me. ;)
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I this is about as simple and easy as you can go... Make your drum about 5-6" long by about 5-6" wide with laminated plywood and a 1/2" rod through it.... Wrap the drum with 1" wide sand paper and a little spray adhesive... Then just attach a rub collar under the drum on a plywood table... Make sure you put the rod through a 1/2" hole in the table and grease the hole or through a bearing on the table because if you don't the drum will move on you...
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Rich, It seems your drum is attached to a drill press
I don't have one. That's why I'm looking for other options.
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i have a spindle sander i modified- i had a mate turn up the rub collar, i shortened the rubber roller a bit to accommodate the collar, i removed the oscillating feature- and i made templates.
i find it extremely accurate and fast, but maybe i am just a bad "hand sander"
i cut with my small bandsaw- then clamp to the template sand- flip it over and clamp to the second template- done in minutes- with paper thin fades
the sander was a 100$ unit from canadian tire.
mine is exactly like this one
https://www.amazon.ca/WEN-6510-Oscillating-Spindle-Sander/dp/B00LPFIPPQ?th=1&psc=1&source=googleshopping&locale=en-CA&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_8tnjlwp1wv_e
but cost me less a few years ago- and has the mastercraft label
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I have a very similar spindle sander (mine made by Triton).
Can you post some pics of your setup?
And, do you use the 80 grit sleeves? I can find any less....
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i think i was using 50's
sure i will get some pics
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big thing was to remove the oscillating feature- i made a bushing from some old waterpipe to replace the discs that caused the oscillation.
i built my templates on the cheap too- i didnt use the clamps, i made my own.
just gotta go find my camera- i think its in the sock drawer :laughing:
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but i think 80's would work just fine
just take a wee bit longer and leave a slightly smoother surface, i wanted the rough surface for glueing
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How did you remove the oscillation?
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you have to open the bottom, and remove the guts- the oscillation ( in mine) is comprised of two discs with bumps on them, and when these two disc turning at different speeds( one is belt driven with speed reduction on it, the other is on the main shaft) every second or two the bumps coincide and they push each other apart from each other and the sanding sleeve/shaft is raised and lowered.
its super simple once you figure it out, just had to look at it and figure it out.
i took the belt driven disc off the shaft and replaced it with a metal pipe bush and a fender washer on either side of the pipe. so the remaining disc turns, but it isnt raised and lowered anymore.
the sander has those plastic inserts, to go around the chosen rubber sleeve, well i made the rub collar to replace the insert- and drilled holes in it, and the collar is part of that.
so the collar doesnt rotate- at doesnt damage the templates.
the templates i built with a bolt tightening sytem with flat bar- i need to weld some tabs on the bolts so i can tighten them by hand. i epoxied the nuts in place on the underside.
i
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here are some pics,
found the camera in the sock draw- but the battery was dead :biglaugh:
you can see the collar and insert combo- and i drilled the holes in it for the dust extraction
so if i want to use a different size sleeve i can- but it just wont oscillate- no big deal
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thats the oscillating ring- that i removed.
the template is really simple- i used some 1/4" plexi glass (the rub collar is only a little over 1/4" thick)
as the template base- so it rubs against the rub collar- doesnt wear out easily, but i can sand it to get it perfectly tuned to the shape that i want-
then i have a door skin spacer between the plexi and the block to raise my workpiece a smidge to get it against the sanding sleeve, and away from the rub collar.
then i have the block/ spacer that matches my riser- so 1.5" thick- and the two clamps on the top. the flat bar clamps have a little piece of bicycle innertube glued on as grippers,
the back of the flat metal tab needs to be longer and the spacer block bigger- so that the clamps actually jambs against the spacer block- and in turn grips the workpiece better.
my templates improved with each new edition :)
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so if you can figure it out from those sparse instructions you will be doing well :biglaugh:
but it should get you going in a direction, and if you get stuck, just holler and i will talk you through the details at each pinch point.
like how tall to make the pipe bushing etc, as that effects how much sleeve is exposed above the table.
alternatively- send me the sander, i will do the conversion for you, but you would just need to pay for the collar being turned- i think it cost me $70 canadian, which is about $12.39 USD right now :laughing: :laughing:
and the return shipping.
but for the most part, i think you could easily do the conversion, i must have taken mine apart and back together 5 or six times getting it all just right, but i am a tad OCD about stuff- like most of us are ;)
just holler dont be shy- and i can send you a phone no. if you want to talk over the phone and make it easier
good luck :thumbsup:
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oops Dor,
just saw you are in Israel, so geuss we wont be doing any shipping back and forth, nor talking on the phone :biglaugh:
but we can figure it out via the forum here :thumbsup:
i actually prefer the spindle sander modifications, as i dont think the drills spin fast enough to get it done efficiently, and pushing against one side of the drill arbor wont be doing it any favours.
i found with the sander just take it slow- and make multiple passes- it worked great for me.
i also discovered that i needed to drill those dust extraction holes a bit bigger, the dust was clogging in those holes
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WOW thanks for the detaild explanation Fujimo. That's really great of you.
I'll try to make the modification, just need to find the time.
I'll keep you posted once it's done.
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Can you explain a bit about the insert/collar combo you made? Seems to be made of metal
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yes it is, i had a friend turn it on his lathe- its simply made from normal mild steel.
i will take some extra pics of it for you.
thats the only part that cost anything- $70 canadian.
I drilled the dust extraction holes in it.
it needs to fit in the recess quite snugly- but not so tight that you cant remove it-
it needs to be snug so that it doesnt move when you are pressing against it- otherwise the grind will not be accurate
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heres a trick- mine was slightly, very slightly loose- so i took a sharp center punch and marked 6 evenly spaced points- and i went around the side and just popped a centerpunch at each mark.
that made it fit perfectly.
just a trick my dad taught me - he is a millwright.
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so i took the sleeve off this morning,
then i remembered there was also a spacer sleeve/ bushing i put in there- its to fill the gap from the shoulder on the shaft where the sleeve used to sit on, to the sleeves new height- basically the thickness of the collar piece.
like i said before - i had to shorten the rubber sleeve about maybe 10mm or sop- so that i still had thread to put the top nut on.
you can see the insert is pretty thick under the surface.
note.
the extra collar/ bushing i put on the shaft is just what we call a tap fit, its not a press fit- so you can tap it on with just a piece of pipe, i also set it in place with some thread locker, not really needed, as when you tighten the top nut on the sleeve it all holds it together tightly.
the bush needs to be just proud of the insert, so that the rubber sleeve can turn without binding against the non turning rub collar insert.
and the slip on bushing needs to be clear of the insert - so it too doesnt bind when its rotating.
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here are the pics
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insert
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insert side view
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i must say, shredds idea is quite a good one, if one had a drill press.
i like the idea of the bottom bearing in the plywood table- that will save the drills arbor, which is not designed for side thrust.
a very good and simple solution. the only other issue i might see is the spindle speed being a bit low, but at least you would be less likely to burn the wood, and just take a little more time doing it.
after all this is for fun, and not a race i guess :thumbsup:
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Fujimo,
Your modified spindle sander is truly impressive. If mine had been that sophisticated, I'm sure I'd still be using it.
If you don't mind, I'm going to show this thread to my friendly neighborhood gunsmith and see if he can machine a bump stop like yours. Is that a bearing in the center of it?
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you are absolutely welcome to use it as much as you would like mate.
yea- that center bit does look like a bearing :)
but its not, its a solid bushing that is snugly fitted to the shaft, its not what is called a press fit, ie would need a hydraulic press to install, but its what they call an "interference fit", so it can be simply just tapped lightly into place- i used a piece of pipe that slipped over the spindle- and i just tapped it lightly , and it moved the bush down the spindle shaft till it was seated on the shoulder that is on the shaft. that shoulder is what the rubber spindle would have pressed against, in the old mode.
this bushing is to give the rubber spindle something to sit on and press against- otherwise it would just bind up against the rub collar insert.
Remember, that little press on bush is actually proud of the insert by a fraction, so that the washer on the underside of the rubber spindle- spins freely of the insert- and there is clearance between the bushing and the rub collar isert, so that when the spindle rotates it doent rub on the rub collar insert.........clear as mud???? :goldtooth:
if someone wanted a spindle sander set up like this, and they paid for the sander- and the bit of machining that i have to get someone else to do, and the shipping of the completed unit to them, i could do a detailed buildalong for everyone on here, and then send them the finished unit.
it sure would be a cheap , convenient way for a person to get a template sander.
i would also show a detailed explanation of how to build the templates
bearing in mind of course, that as soon as we fiddle with a new machine, we void the warranty, but the parts are all interchangeable- and could be transferred to the next unit, if need be.
these spindle sanders seem to be pretty generic.
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the big trick with this template sander, is that the rub collar is not spinning with the spindle- as that spinning can wear the template down in a heartbeat, kinda like a faulty bearing on a router bit- now, thats something i learnt the hard way :bigsmyl:
with nothing turning, and the plexiglass being the template- it slides around nice and smoothly, doesnt hang up, its hard wearing enough, but yet is still easy enough to sand and get to perfect shape
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I found this link
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/07/18/make-duplicate-curves-with-a-spindle-sander
Seem very simple, I wonder if it`ll work
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I found this link
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/07/18/make-duplicate-curves-with-a-spindle-sander
Seem very simple, I wonder if it`ll work
This is basically what I did. It doesn't work all that well.
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I found this link
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/07/18/make-duplicate-curves-with-a-spindle-sander
Seem very simple, I wonder if it`ll work
This is basically what I did. It doesn't work all that well.
Why not?
What where the problems?
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I found this link
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/07/18/make-duplicate-curves-with-a-spindle-sander
Seem very simple, I wonder if it`ll work
This is basically what I did. It doesn't work all that well.
Why not?
What where the problems?
The challenges were keeping the board to which the rub collar is mounted at 90 degrees to the spindle and keeping the rub collar from being pushed into the spindle.
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hey Craig<
did you get a chance to get your gunny to look at the part- i can get some more specific measurements if it would help him
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Wayne,
I may get with you on those rub collars. I’m torn between doing that, or just having someone machine me something similar to the robo sander for my drill press.
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hey Craig<
did you get a chance to get your gunny to look at the part- i can get some more specific measurements if it would help him
I'll be seeing him this weekend. Fortunately for me, my friendly neighborhood gunsmith is also my dad. ;)
He's semi retired now, but doesn't seem to building archery related jigs, devices, and contraptions for me. I'll just have to see what he wants to build it out of (5051 aluminum probably) and then order the necessary material. Unless he has something in his vast scrap pile. We'll see.
Don't worry, it isn't one sided. I'll be plumbing a new bathroom in their basement soon. ;)
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yup craig, she all goes around!! :thumbsup:
bvas- just holler if there is anything i can do to help :wavey:
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Fujimo, can this jig made out of wood?
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i geuss it could, but it would not be very durable, and then your finished product accuracy would suffer.
it would have to be some really dense hardwood i would imagine, by the time one has got hold of the wood, and had it turned up- i think one might as well have made it from steel.
unless you have your own wood lathe and some good chunks of wood floating around.
but i say go for it, it may be an improvement, my way is never the only way- besides what i tell my kids :laughing: :laughing: