Hi there
I have a couple of questions
Is actionboo always light colored and amberboo always darker or can they look alike ?
Is amberboo heattreated - and actionboo not ?
Does the heattreatment only provide the color to the boo or are there other benefits to heattreatment too ?
there is a big colordifference between theese two bamboolaminations as you can see on the pic.
In your experience, is the light one regular boo and the darker one amberboo ?
Or could they both be amberboo ?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/jcjccjcj/HPIM0617.jpg)
Bw tells me that both should be amberboo, I am just wondering about the huge colordifference ?
Thanks
Jacob
I think it is only a color difference.
The actionboo/amberboo is just a fancy name for the vertical laminated bamboo flooring :) Though I've seen it in regular board form now, the last set of lams I bought had the offcuts of the flooring used as stiffeners for packaging.
The amber boo has been heat treated to give it the color. The degree of the caramel color is determined by the temperature and time the manufacturer used, and varies between manufacturer (and batches). That's likely to be where the color difference you're seeing is from.
In a glass lam bow there is no advantage to the heat treatment other than to get a different color w/o having to stain it.
For all wood (ok grass) lam bows there is a distinct DISadvantage to using the amberboo. The amberboo doesn't hold as much of the glued-in reflex as the natural actionboo does. It fatigues in compression much more. Neither of them are better in compression than even red oak and are poor choices for a belly for that reason, but they don't seem to crysal and fracture like real wood does so they're tolerant of really screwed up tiller.
This is my last all boo bow:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/fliksr/rd%20All%20Boo%20Bow/SweetGrass.jpg)
All the flooring in my house is bamboo... I made sure there was an extra case of boards :D
Thanks so far guys
anybody else has opinions on this ?
have anybody else then me noticed such a huge colordifference in amberboo ?
I did some research on bambooflooring company websites.
In short :
#I have no doubt that the two limbs on my pic does not both have amberboo.
One is amberboo ( carbonized actionboo )
other is naturel actionboo
Amberboo is 20-30 softer then naturel actionboo because of the boiling process called "carbonizing"
Lets just hope that the slight disadvantage of amberboo as Jeremy refers too in allwood bows doesnt play a role in glass laminated bows.
And in my case it still doesnt match with a riser with actionboo and a limb with amberboo
:(
Jacob
Trouble we had with amberboo, was it came apart like it was rotten. We don't use it at all any more. I did like the color.
Not too comforting :( :eek:
I purchased a Traditionalist with boo limbs. Are you all advising me to get rid of it now? Kinda reminds me of the market that hasn't treated me so good lately.
we tested carbonized bamboo and discarded it immediately. never even glued a bow with it.
the color would be nice, but it doesn't have any of the attributes of natural bamboo.
Larry, did you test it in an allwood bow or in a glasslaminated bow ?
How did you test it ?
When you say it didnt have the qualities of natural bamboo, do you mean natural colored actionboo or natural nonlaminated bamboo ?
Was the carbonized bamboo the laminated stuff or the nonlaminated stuff ?
J
Seems I read about some failures years ago with certain bamboo lams. Now that everyone is using 'boo in high-end laminated bows, I wondered when this question would come up again.
Perhaps a bowyer with a lot of experience (like Bob or Larry) in using this stuff can come out and break it down for us. Differences between types of bamboo and all that.
-Charlie
there is no continuity in the fiber of carbonized bamboo. it's sort of like fiberglass made of random chopped fiber versus the linear tow like gordons uses.
we tested the laminated material.
we test the strengfth of the edge glued bond and bending strength. also like bob said, it "shreds", for want of a better word. even 50 grit sandpaper will ruin it in a lam sander.
we got samples to test from our supplier and never ordered any of that product.
Larry, when you compare it to natural bamboo are you talking about natural actionboo or natural bamboo ?
I have sanded it with 36, 60 and 120 grit and have never had a problem with it at all, I have at least a couple hundred bows out there that are still going as strong as the day they were built. Maybe there was just a bad batch going around or the new stuff is junk? I havent bought any for over a year but I am starting to run low, hmmm.
I have one longbow with action'boo limb cores and four with bamboo and IME, action'boo just isn't as smooth drawing as the real deal bamboo. YMMV.
I've sanded it in a lam sander, rough reduced it in a regular thickness planer, worked it with rasps, files and scrapers all with no problems.
The vertical laminated stuff (natural and amber) is made the same way as the maple actionwood. It's thin strips of boo laminated together. Looking at two adjacent strips in the 6' board beneath my feet now they run the full length of the board, so I don't really understand the 'random chopped fiber' statement.
If you go through your local Target or Walmart you'll see cutting boards, bowls, platters and cooking utensils made out of the stuff. It holds up. I don't see a problem with it being in glass lam bows. Come to think of it, my "new" Hummingbird has the amberboo :D
Thanks guys, all interesting stuff here.
Some important points to keep this simple :
Amberboo = laminated bamboo that have been carbonized which gives it a light brown color
Actionboo = laminated bamboo in the light natural color
Natural bamboo = natural nonlaminated bamboo
Strand plyboo = shredded and then glued together bamboo wich is ofcourse not a good material for bows.
#1 There is no doubt that natural nonlaminated bamboo has different qualities then both actionboo and amberboo and that is NOT what is interesting here
The question is this :
Is there truly a difference between actionboo and amberboo ?
Larry, could it be strand plyboo you tested ?
And Larry again, did you compare the tested material to natural bamboo or to actionboo ?
Bob, Is it correct that you had good results with actionboo but not with amberboo - or did you only try the amberboo ?
Thanks guys, we got to figure this out because something is not adding up correctly here.
Brandon, Amazing looking bows you make there !
Brandon, when you order amberboo, do you get only the brown stuff ? or is actionboo and amberboo in between each other in the same bunch ?
Jacob
Yes they are both dyed on the "flat" side but not on the egde.
The amberboo on your pic looks like a lighter color and more warm amber then the almost grey/brown color on my limb. ( on the e egde of my limb, not the dyed color )
Does the amberboo that you have vary into the grey/brown colors too ? or does it all look like on your pic ?
I have been following this thread with extreme interest. I have a pronghorn bow with amberloo limbs, I thought I was doing my self a favor with the amberloo account its bamboo. but now I am very confused and nervous. I guess I'm not sure what to do, Is Amberloo worthless or isn't it. how dose it rank with red elm or maple,
http://www.bambwood.com/SP_SolidBambooFlooring.htm
http://plyboo.com/flooring.html#
Links to flooring companies.
the last one is the one Brandon uses and they use a heattreating process to give the amberboo its color. I think its the same process as all the other flooring companies uses. Its called carbonization.
Howler I dont think you have to worry.
I know from my own limbs that the speed is excatly the same !
The only concern I have is regarding what Bob has experienced.
But there is many bows made with amberboo without problems though.
Brandon, as I said, your amberboo looks lighter colored then the amberboo on my bow.
Is that correct, or does the pics just make your amberboo look lightercolored ?
( I am ofcourse interested in finding out if its the same kind of product or not )
J, I see there are two different limbs there. One is a PSA(or PMA) with the phenolic and the other is an SA(or MA) without. Did you order both of these new from BW. The reason I ask is that I believe the lighter colored one is like all of the Widows I've had with bamboo in the core. Possibly the other one was ordered darker and stained by BW to accomodate the person. Just a thought, I guess if you bought it new though that goes out the window...Mike
Oh and I did read on BW website someone's comment about the new limbs being darker than the older limbs. They thought the lighter limbs looked nicer. I could probably find that for you if interested in reading it...Mike
Moose
They are both pma, I just ordered the one of them without the phenolic.
I ordered/bought them both from widow and the darker ones are not stained differently then normal, the boo simply is darker.
My main problem is actually that all my other widows are with the light colored bamboo like you have also noticed on your bows and it really bugs me that my newest limbs ( the ones ordered with phenolic ) are way darker in the boo and it doesnt match the bamboo in my risers when I put the new limbs on there.
Widow tells me that they have always used the same amberboo !?! Well, it certainly doesnt look the same to me !
That was me on widowwall by the way !
Guess you don't need me to find it for you then, lol. That was my only idea, so I guess I'm no help, sorry...Mike
I buy the stuff 6 sheets at a time, 12 inches wide and 6 foot long, every sheet varies a little like the bows you have pictured. Some sheets are a lot darker than others.
Mike, thanks for trying
Jason, I guess that must be the answer. the sheets just vary between colors even though you order the same product.
Roger from BW told me that they have different colorvariations in the same shipments so I guess a guy just have to order the color he wants when ordering a new bow !
Jason, I have just checked out your bows. the amberboo you use looks like the same color as the boo in my latest bw limb.
Nice to hear that you havnt had any problems !
Where do you get yours ?
can you see any difference between the qualities of the darker and the lighter sheets ?
Thanks
J
I cant tell any diff between the color shades, they all seem to work well. Every once in a while I will have a lamination crack after grinding it but a lot of natural woods do too, I flex check them all before glue up to make sure they are all strong and not splitting. I have only had a few laminations split at the seem. Never a problem with a glued up bow. I get mine from a local flooring distributor. He gets it from All-Tile.
SHeesh,I just bought a Kanati and some of these comments about amberboo had me worried a bit.Thanks Jason for clearing that up.