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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Hoosierarcher88 on August 09, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
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Was doing some research and trying to find some info on hex wood shafts. It appears that they havent been made for a while but after emailing trueshafts i found that they are almost ready to go into full production of them. For those who have tried the hex shafts of the past what were your thoughts on them?
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In the past, the ones I tried changed spine depending on which way they were turned and if they weren't straight when they were glued up, getting them straight was pretty much impossible...fighting too many different grains.
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I have used them in the past. They were a tough shaft with good weight. It had these problems for me. First to straighten them I had to resort to friction, but they could be straightened. Next you could not aquire them in bulk so it was difficult to make a matched set. Truth be told though this is the issue you will have with all poc alternatives.
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My experience was the same as LBRs, and most weren't straight when I bought them. Maybe QC is will be better now.
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I had a doz back when. I bought mine from a well know arrowsmith. They were pretty straight from him. I just didn’t care for the heavier physical weight. Same complaint I had with Forgewoods back in the day.
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some literature from True shaft archery.
The original Hex shafts are now available again, albeit with many improvements.
The HEX shafts are an extremely innovative product with many inherent advantages.
However, they have been viewed skeptically by some. With many archers loving them, and some disliking them due to problems within the shafts. These were issues that were in fact created during the manufacturing process, and not a fault of the chosen species. Incidences of delamination, crooked and the inability to straighten easily, brittleness in the wood fiber, and being a bit short for the average shooter, (at an overall length of only 31 ½”) were points of contention!
Frank and Doreen, the previous owners, although not archers, were doing their level best to create a good product- but not having a background in archery, their understanding of the intricacies of wood and its foibles- created a few problems with the shafts!
We managed to purchase the original Hex shaft machines and the business after Frank passed away unexpectantly. The machines had not been run in 5 years, and sadly were gathering dust in a garage.
o The original process and the machinery were orientated around using Lodgepole pine (chundoo) as the material, but unfortunately utilizing commercially available, kiln dried 2x4’s for the process. Kiln drying wood (especially on the commercial level) does irreversible damage to the cell structure of the wood, making the wood extremely brittle and prone to early failure.
o Utilising a commercially sawn piece of construction grade lumber does not ensure true grain orientation- issues of excessive grain runout on the shafts created further problems.
o The shafts were laminated with a cheap water soluble PVA glue- and once laminated, they were placed next to a hot wood stove to dry! One can only imagine the torture that the wood endured.
o Placing of the freshly laminated shafts next to a very hot wood stove would have caused all kinds of flexion and distortion in the shafts as the glue dried and cured, effectively laminating a bend into the shafts. Once cured- these shafts became very difficult to straighten. Not unlike a laminated glass bow- with the bow returning to its original, curved laminated shape, shot after shot!
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i agree Bigbadjon, if a manufacturer or dealer is not selling matched shafts in todays day and age, its not a good deal.
even in dozens , and not in bulk, they should be matched in spine and mass.
to be honest , i am not sure what you mean by the alternatives to poc - i must be misreading something :knothead:
but if one gets surewwod shafts, or other species from other suppliers they seem for the most part to be matched.
cheers :)
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When I shot wood I bought 100 shafts at the time and matched them into batches of exact spine readings. POC is generally the only shaft available in large quantities... or was when I shot wood. If you are shooting standard 6# groupings it doesn't quite hack it.
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i hear you, spine, IMO is the most critical factor.
some of the good manufacturers will match the shafts in dozens in tighter spine groups than #5.
i know of some that will match to a pound or two, then no need to land up with all the odds and sods left over.
i know of some manufacturers that still sell in hundred lots though!
i think Surewood does.
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I dunno. I've been at this more than 60 years now. Have participated in hundreds, perhaps thousands of shoots. Have seen very few people who can detect 5# of spine or even 50 grains of arrow weight in their shooting. Or, let me put it another way, if they do detect it, it's not reflected in the accuracy of their shooting.
Grouping arrows in 5# increments has worked for a lot of people for a long time. Time is money to a vendor, and it takes a lot more time to group to a pound or two in spine and less than 10 grains of physical weight. A lot of carbon shafts are spined no closer, though most tend to be quite close in physical weight for a given size. Sometimes, I think we get a bit to anal with this stuff. It's just a stick and a string. Shoot it. :bigsmyl:
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Most guys don't shoot very far. The further you go the more you detect it.
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I ordered a dozen shafts many years ago(about 1989). All were crooked and I wasn't able to straighten them. Was able to return them. I assume they are much better now but not willing to try them again.
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I hated them, in fact I don’t even remember how I got them. It was pre-internet. I enjoyed nothing about them.
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I ordered a dozen completed hexshaft arrows from a arrow smith years ago and they were terrible. 9 out of the dozen were crooked and would not stay straight. The nocks were put on crooked as well.
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I've got a dozen Whispering Winds Arrows Split Pine-Hex Shafts, 11/32", 60-64 Spine, 448-452 grs. that I'm going to unload. PM me with questions.
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I have never used them, and see no usefulness. They seem to require more work to make than a standard round shaft, and unless there is some advantage in this design, why bother?
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Having done business with True Shaft I can attest to the quality of their shafts and to their great customer service as well. I would be willing to bet that the new Hex shafts from Wayne and company will be an outstanding product just as their other shafts are. That said, I for one am waiting for them to finally start production so that I can try some out. I too have had the older version of these shafts and had the same issues as everyone else.
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The originals stunk
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There are no curly-Q or excessively bent ones in the only dozen I've had -Circa mid 1980s - (60-64 Spine, 11/32", 448-452 grs). They look as good as any of the raw cedar shafts (mostly Rose City - late 1980's) I've used, where some of them need minor truing; but nothing excessive by my eye....... They are certainly "well aged" at this point.
I was always going to Foot them in Cocobolo, but just never got around to it. I have the jigs and equipment to foot, barrel taper, dip/crest & fletch and always intended to finish-out and sell the couple of hundred cedar shafts I have; but just haven't been building and finishing wood shafts for years. .... too many other priorities during our short MT summers (no heated shop).
I finally decided to start reducing my shafts inventory; so, I've got the Whispering Winds Hex raw shafts , plus a bunch of other commercially - mostly vintage - finished arrows on ebay. We'll see how that goes.......
..... Appreciate your input and experience. Thanks.
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Use heat to straighten, leave standing vertical to cool. Not my favorite shaft but were pretty durable.
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I used hex shafts from Bob Burton at Whispering Winds for several years in the late 90’s thru around 2006, give or take a few years. Never had any issues with them. But they were mostly built by Bob. Used them on my mountain lion, bison, and over twenty deer. Switched to Surewood shafts ( because they are a sponsor and have an excellent product) when Bob sold Whispering Winds and I started building my own arrows again. I just looked at 3 footed hex shafts that are at least 12 years old and two of the three are perfectly straight. The third straightened right up when I ran a hook over it several times.