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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: EwokArcher on July 29, 2018, 02:27:26 PM
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How does it look so far? I am basing this mostly on plans I picked up from bjansen except I am gonna lay the handle out a little different. I am thinking I'll have a continuous piece of glass going through the belly of the handle then do overlays for thickness in the palm. I've seen the guys build the upper part of their forms to accommodate ramping the belly glass up the lower limb handle and I think maybe I'm taking out some complexity doing it this way. Next question is a basic one. How much space do you think I should cut out for my 2 inch air hose? This is a 1.75 form wide. I was thinking I'd cut about 1 extra inch off the whole top part of the form.
Thanks for looking! I've been thinking about doing this build since I made my first glass bow a few years ago I'm pumped.
Ty
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If you cut an inch , be sure to put the forms in place and then scribe the inch. The curves don't match when you spread them.
If the inch is too tight, you could drill the bigger bolt hole a little bigger to give some slack. That may not help as much on a recurve a the limb ends.
I love the look of those short bows, but I shoot longer ones much better!
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Cool an inch it is. Hope someone can help me come up with a string length/brace height also. This is the 46 in.
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That's a radical little bow. Can't wait to see how it comes out. String and brace height will probably be all about experimenting.
Only suggestion I have is get some stabilcore from Kenny. Those limbs are gonna have a mind of their own.
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Yes, definitely needs stabil core or uni-weft. I have a short recurve design like that with deep hooks. It will help.
Out of curiosity, what is your riser length?
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Get with Truxturning he did several of those little shorties a few years back. He never used uniweft or stabil core in his the originals only had glass as well. My buddy had one of those back in late 1960's it was a fun little bow.
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The riser length is 12 inches. One huge perk I'm seeing is how little material is requiredin these. I think bjansen did not use stabile core. However I ordered enough glass from kenny to do a few of these while I work out the kinks.
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I always liked the looks of those old Herters bows you still see one around every now and again in antique shops around here !
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Got some work done this morning. Made a template for my router bearing to follow. Cut out my 1 inch gap for my air hose on the band saw, I think smarter man would make 1 rough cut to split the form then 2 more cuts a little cleaner to get close to the lines with less muscle involved.
Ps: just got my supply package in from kennym and Amazon could take notes from our buddies packing job, everything looks great, and I got it way sooner than I expected.
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Looking good!
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👍🏻👍🏻
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Too late now but I like to drill the strap holes before cutting the form apart. It is looking good for sure.
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Looks like a fun project... Wish you Good Luck with it...
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Those are wise words crooked stick! I have a fresh set of straps ill just put these pieces back together and that will keep the guess and measure work out of lining everything up to drill holes later.
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Yes sir that would work also.
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It's a little bit of a sloppy way to get there,... but about 30 minutes of router work later I have a 1.75 form. ( I was using up left over plywood)
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Got some more work done last night. Used my template and flush trim router bit to finish shaping the form. Drilled the holes for brackets and sliced up a thin piece of maple to go along the edge of the form as a pressure strip to give a clean smooth surface for the glass to rest against. My fire hose is way too long I dont know if I'll be able to put this form in the hot box. Also I need to add a couple pieces of wood to widen out the straps cause the fire hose is pinching up on them. Making forms is a pain but do it right and I guess you only have to do it once.
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Looking good! :thumbsup:
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Great... Almost ready for Take-Off...
Don't worry about the hotbox... Just cure at room temp. and stick it in the box the next day for a couple of hours... If it's gonna move it will move then and not when it is out in the hot sun or in the back of a car... At least that's my theory...
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Minor update. Added some width at the bolting sites of the form with a quarter inch piece of oak on each side with a hole drilled through to give my fire hose more clearance. The hose I am using originally was included with the binghams 2 inch wide recurve kit.
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Cut my lams down to length this morning
24 inch lams for the belly and a 48 for the back. These are cut a couple inches longer than necessary so I have some wiggle room working on my tips and can trim later. A little material goes a long way with this little bow. 16 inch power lam. Now to the drum sander.
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Looking good out of curiosity what taper are you using ? Looking foward to seeing this one !
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The original uses a .002 taper on the belly lams that will be .08. The long back strap is .044. 16 inch power lam extends 2 inches past the riser and is. 03 to 0. This comes out to about a 45# bow
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That power lam really helps with these- they want to come apart at the fades. They are a fun little bow to make and shoot.
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YESS! Seeing this build made my day. Man I have not been on the Bowyers bench in a long time.
Great job thus far - great plan for the lams and through the riser glass on the belly too..I made 2 46" Herter's bows that way and I think it is the way to go.
Regarding the use of uniweft, I made one once with uniweft in the stack and it made the outer limbs way too stiff. The bow would not open up as it should, so I would not suggest using uniweft without modifying the taper rate.
Cant wait to see this baby in full draw.
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Stable core is only .015 and is woven.
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I really like the stable core product given how thin and light is it. I have never tried piece of stable core in in a Herters 46 but I do believe it would probably work well without much, if any, changes in the lam stack taper rate.
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Trux bjansen I'm excited yall came around. Specifically bows from each of you are my inspiration for this. Trux your wenge riser with elkhorn thumb rest is one of my all time favorite bows. And bjansen your black and white themed one with black glass is the look I'm going for on my bow here
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I think I saw 9 inches was the recommended brace height on one of yalls old posts is that accurate? What about string length? Thanks guys
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Finished grinding all of my maple lams this morning on my homebrew drum sander. Its more of an art than a science on this rig but it gets the job done eventually. Next riser lay out. I'm gonna be trying to get 2 risers out of 1 20x3x1.75 block.
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Did a dry run this evening. Need to work on my fades more of course. I may need to reshape the whole thing to get em right. I'm not used to working with such a short stocky riser.
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That thing looks tricky to get in the form with glue on it!! Looking good!
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That is wild...
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I have already phoned a friend to help me with the glue up. That should save me half on the amount of tape I'm gonna need to get everything finagled into place. I got in the shop this morning and worked on those riser fades got them down a little thinner.
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Big Bob 2 drills holes in his forms & uses zip ties to hold every thing in place & airs up to 20lb & cuts them and pulls them out & airs up to full pressure he says it works great ! Just a thought.
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Ritchie, does Bob use wire ties or zip Ty’s?
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Bow ties, ya silly wabbit..
:laughing:
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I think I have heard of the zip ties before mentioned. I can see that working. But the strapping tape should do the job pretty well and I can get sloppy with it to hit all the random angles and layers I will need. I'll do the bow layers then a second set of tape to hold on the hose and pressure strip. My buddy will be available to help with the glue up Thursday.
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It is zip ties or as we call them over here cable ties.Works very well.
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Yep I meant zip ties :knothead:
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Kinda late now but I think you would be better off with the belly side on the form. Harder to get the form perfect on the humps. Where as the hose would kinda form around them. But you fades do need thinning out.
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I did the bow ti... I mean zip ties on my last layup and it worked great. I'll be doing it regularly from here on out. (I'm thinking to beat Roy to the punch(line) but that would deprive him.) :)
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Crooked I agree I think it would be easier and I could have used a pin to line up the riser and everything. This is how I saw all of the other forms made and I didn't even think to switch it up. But I am definitely learning why the other method is favored. On the dry run I noticed it was more difficult to get the glass conformed to the curves and is definitely gonna take extra care.
Learning experience :knothead:
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Got er glued up and popped off the far. So far so good. The fades dont look bad I'll know for sure when I sand the boogers off.
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Very cool can't wait tell a string goes on ! :archer2:
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Looking good! Getting them glued up is a challenge.
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Trux what do you know about string length for this thing? It's a 46 inch.
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The strings on mine are 41"- that gives me a brace height of 9.25". I'd probably start with a 42" string.
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Thanks trux you da man.
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Man I was shooting for the .200-.210 total stack and I'm not sure what happened but I cant even get a string on this thing. I've never used a recurve stringer before but it feels like I must have ended up with a hundred pound monster instead of my 45 pounds I was hoping for. I reviewed the original plans and text instruction I received. The original plans had .18 thickness =49 pounds. My written instructions said .210 = 49 pounds. I realize now the written instructions. 210 included a .5 thickness power lam. I didn't figure that in when I made my parallel and taper. So essentially I made my bow for a .210 then added a power lam on top instead of .210 including all 3. It probably is a hundred pound now no wonder my back is sore from trying to string it.
Better luck next time lol
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If you can tell realization was setting in as I was writing that last post. Dang always disappointing to lose one but that's part of the fun I guess.
Here is a more concise version of what happened.
.210 for a 48 pound bow. But for some reason I didn't think that included the power lam. So my limbs ended up .210 instead of the .18 they needed to be.
Noob move. On to the next one
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Yup... It happens to the best of us... Make a crossbow out of it...
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It does not take much to change the poundage in a short bow pretty quick. My 50 in TD takes .187 to get 47 lbs. with no where close to your drastic limb design. what taper in your limb?
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My taper is .002. I did some grinding some cutting and some rounding. But it was still nearly too heavy to get strung and very unstable. I'm gonna start from scratch I had some tip alignment issues that were gonna plague me every step of the way anyways due to a measuring error.
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Bjansen has been giving me some tips on the side about this now design and I asked permission to share a post for everyone. This is great info for anyone who wants to attempt this build.
"I rechecked my notes - here is what I had recorded. These are all exclusive of the P lam - meaning what you did was correct.
36# - .200 stack thickness (I used actionwood and clear .040 glass)
49# - .191 stack thickness (I used maple lams and clear .040 glass)
55# - .210 stack thickness (I used .040 clear glass and included a strip of uniweft in the stack)...this bow did not open up correctly due to the uniweft and it has a hard time keeping the string on it.
You may look at this data (especially comparing the stack for the 36# bow and the 49# bow) and say that makes no sense. Well, this is how finicky these bows are...if you change anything...lam material, glass, taper rates, how much you round the sides, etc...it makes a huge difference. "- bjansen
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Attempting this one with a .190 total stack thickness. Just came off the form
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My form is straight. I use washers so to get my tips and handle straight I am dumping the laser level which has caused me more headaches than anything. I am just gonna mark center of the glass at tips and center of handle and work from there. That's big change number one on this now from the last attempt. I got fresh batch of glue for this go, used alchohol wipes and a stiff brush in an airconditioned space for my prep work last night. Also using bearpaw glass with the grey lams I dyed in a previous post. Fingers crossed.
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Something wasn't perfectly straight obviously. Anyways I had to adjust the tips about 1/8 to the right in this picture. The original had both tips center to the left of the handle. With the redraw the string from tip to tip falls very close to dead center on the handle. Any tips on this part of the process are welcome. I'm gonna try to post more of my as top by step on this build so yall can slap my hand.
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I lengthened the power lam about 2 inches this go around I think its 18 inches. The last one extended so little past the handle I don't think it would have reinforced that weak area much. And I made it paduke for some pop. Brittle brittle I had a hard time getting it to take the curve... I actually had to pre shape it with heat gun and some weights over night. You can see my grey Lams here also. Mr. Bjansen said this bow is supposed to be about 44in amo. I need to figure out what amo is, but what I did do was mark this at 46, 47, then cut it off at 48 inches in total length. At 48 inches the tips are even with the handle. Those measurements are as measured from the back center of the bow.
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Did you put the layout marks on prior to glue up?
If so, did you recheck them after cleaning up the blank?
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I drew the marks on after glue up, before the clean up measuring from the edges of the glass. I can see drawing before being a good call. I drew them in, checked alignment with a string, then redrew to get the line up I have now
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I don’t do the marks before glue up. I was just curious.
I wait til after cleanup(or mostly cleaned up) to put any marks. I guess I’m not confident enough in all the lams and glass staying perfect thru glue up.
I pull a string thru same as you, but only use a single strand of B50. If everything lines up, then I move forward. If something is off, then I put more marks at fades and midlimb to determine which tip I need to move to make everything align.
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Mr Jansen says this bow is actually 44 amo. I don't know exactly what that means despite him trying to explain to me it is the string length plus 3 inches. Well I'm making my own string so does that mean I'll have a 41 inch string? And should I measure the length of this bow from the belly or the back to get my total length. The drastic curve on the back could add some length. I'm thinking about just starting with the bow 47 inches ttt. And doing 46 ntn to see how the poundage is that way I have some wiggle room. I've heard these have some stability issues if the tips aren't a ways behind the handle. Do tall have feedback on my length issue?
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Do you still have my plans where I drew out the location of the nocks? That should give you a good idea of the location of the nocks in relation to the riser/limbs regardless of how you measure it. If you no longer have the plans send me your email address and I will send them to you.
Yes the string is approximately 41”. If you were to measure (belly side) from one nock, around the curve of the limb straight down to the other limb and then around be the curve of the other limb to the other nock, that would be about 44”. In other words, imagine if you put a string on that bow without flexing the limbs at all - that string would measure 44”.
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Do you still have my plans where I drew out the location of the nocks? That should give you a good idea of the location of the nocks in relation to the riser/limbs regardless of how you measure it. If you no longer have the plans send me your email address and I will send them to you.
Yes the string is approximately 41”. If you were to measure (belly side) from one nock, around the curve of the limb straight down to the other limb and then around be the curve of the other limb to the other nock, that would be about 44”. In other words, imagine if you put a string on that bow without flexing the limbs at all - that string would measure 44”.
I will measure one of mine and post a picture when I get home tonight.
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I looked on the computer and found the file. I feel goofy for overlooking it had a spot marked for string groove. Guess I can print that and overlay the bow on top to get the measurement. Thanks buddy for backing me up through this deal. You da man.
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Here are a few pics just in case
(https://i.imgur.com/JfGabaQl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VQtaLJRl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q8yRxmAl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BImSOt4l.jpg)
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44 ntn measured that way. That looks good. Any chance you could measure the distance along the back of the bow ntn? I will be able to more accurately work off of that number I really appreciate your help sir. That bow is a beauty! I didn't see a post of it when i was doing my searches, I like it at least as much as your black and white one. Beautiful handle.
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45 pounds at 19 inches right now. Already going much better than the last one but still way heavy.
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Looking great !!!
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If the weight increases 3pounds per inch that puts this at 73# at 27 in. I'm thinking I'll try to reduce the width about 1/16 on each side and trap the back 1/8th of an inch. See what that does then do some sanding on back of bow.
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Here is a question for you guys. I believe it a hard rule that shortening a bow will increase your draw weight. I currently have a ntn distance that is about 2 inches longer than the original bow. That also puts each tip almost 1 inch closer to being even with the handle. The original unstrung bow has the tips like 2 inches behind the handle for stability reasons. I wonder if there is any world where the set back tips on the shorter limbs would actually decrease poundage due to preload? Or would it only decrease early draw weight and increase the end draw weight. The deal is these tips are almost perpendicular to the back of the bow unstrung wo it makes me wonder.
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This bow will 100% be named mosquito. This unfortunate guy must have landed on the glue before I put it all in the form. I'm a little disappointed I styled this bow planning on snaking the back so he will be covered.
Also glued up handle layers.
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Forgot to attach.
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I can't for the life of me get these unstable tips under control. First of all I think figured out why my draw weights were all jacked up. I didn't uncheck the "fit to page" box before doing the original plan print so everything is all jacked up and this now is a little bit more aggressively curved than the original.
I have this top limb flippin and floppin back and forth during my draw. It now is consistently pulling to the left I have tried filing the groove crazy deep on that side I've taken off enough material on the other side that the tip is offset towards the side it is pulling to. It's crazy. Any tips?
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Looks like something is out of line. is your form square?
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As square as I can get it. I lined everything up with string before continuing. I'll go take a second look at my form.