So I was practising yesterday and got the courage to shoot out to 40 yards. Didn't go the best but I guess it was ok. As I am getting closer to the season my standard that I am going to hold myself to is that I have to be able to shoot all the arrows in a pie plate, and when that starts to get out of that grouping that will be the maximum distance to try and take an animal from. So far I feel it is only 20 yards right now.
I was wondering what everyone else uses to determine their maximum range they feel comfortable with and perhaps what distance that is? Just figure it might be an interesting topic, sorry if it has already been covered.
Are you meaning for targets or hunting? For targets, I'll shoot out to 30 feeling pretty good about it, but my confidence level really drops after that.
For hunting, I won't shoot past 25yds and don't really like over 20. It's not really about what I can hit, it's more about what can happen with the animal. At a compound speed, not much but at recurve speed, that deer or whatever can jump and turn a heart shot into a gut shot pretty easily. I don't mind missing, but I won't take a chance of just wounding an animal.
I practice out to 30, and could probably kill a deer at 20. But I keep my shots for deer hunting under 15 and 10-12 is even better. I want the odds in my favor as much as possible.
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Shooing targets , I'll shoot out to 50-60 yards just to see any flaws I have because they will really show up at that range, but hunting I really prefer 10-15 yards and pretty much consider 20 pretty close to max. That's hunting in pretty thick cover where a 20 yard shot would be long. I have a hard time focusing on a small spot at anything over about 15-20
Even though I practice longer range shots, I wouldn't chance past 18 yards hunting.
Deno
You know different forums I've read this exact discussion many times. The answers I just read were refreshing. It's what bowhunting is about. Getting close and making a great shot.
No one would fault you for pushing it on a target. I think we need to shoot at a bit longer than we plan to take shots hunting just to make the close shots seem easy.
We should never try n prove our prowess at making long shots on game. If things go wrong the animal shouldn't suffer.
Effective range can be determined by many things. Let's say you effective range was 35 yards. Would you be comfortable shooting an arrow from a relatively slow stykbow at an animal when a simple reach for another acorn can ruin a perfect shot? The arrow has too much air time imo.
I practice fairly far. I just love watching an arrow fly but at a game animal I'd like em close, 20 yards is doable but I'd prefer 15 or closer.
I've been at this since 1970. As a kid I always said, a long needed shot means you stink as a hunter. (Don't matter how big the animal is or how time is short, etc either)A close shot means you did your job.
3D out to 40 yards.
Hunting I want 15 and under.
Guys out West may have a different opinion than guys who hunt whitetails in the East and Midwest.
I hunt in MO and I set stands to have shots at 15 +/- a couple . Too far and your groups widen(not that you get to shoot a group when hunting) , too close from a stand and shot angle gets too great to suit me.
Too close from the ground and your liable to get busted drawing. Found that out on a 3 yard turkey a long time ago! :biglaugh:
For hunting, closer the better, 10-20 yards. Targets, 3D, whatever I feel like. We have a shot that's 103 yards on one of the ranges we shoot. I have to shoot at least one arrow whenever we go by. If I shot only for hunting practice I would have been bored years ago with archery.
Since I'm assuming we're talking hunting shots I'll say my philosophy is a very solid "depends".
I've made successful shots at 40 yards because everything felt "right" . I've passed up shots at 12 yards because everything didn't feel "right" . Depends on lots of factors.
I shoot when I think I can make a good kill shot , I don't shoot if I don't think I can make a good kill shot. I don't put much thought on how far it is at the time. I would say most of my hunting shots are at extremely close range but I have made some pretty far shots at times also. All depends on the situation...
,,Sam,,
If pushed, I will tell you a max range based on how I'm shooting. On elk (who don't tend to duck the string as much) that might reach 25 or 30 yards when I'm practiced well. For deer it might reach 20.
But I have had numerous deer at 20 yards and I felt like they were too far away. Animals get rated as "too far" or "in" the kill zone by my subconscious mind. I know that "too far" isn't usually as far as my standard 20 yard practice range. That's all instinctive. I don't tend to think about it while hunting. Clear as mud? :biglaugh:
For whitetails, my max comfortable range is about 17 yards. 15 is even better.
I would love to say 20 yards (I practice at 20 and beyond), but for me that is just too far on an animal.
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Everyone has their own comfort distance and that will change in every hunting situation. I had deer at 20 and under and would not shoot because of angle, the approach of the animal. How stressed is the animal, is the animal aware that something is wrong. Everything must be calculated in seconds sometimes.
The best way to think about that question to me is, well we will just see when the time comes. I've killed a lot of whitails with my recurve over the past 12 years. Shot them at 10 yards and at 35 yards. But one thing is for certain I didn't know the distance until after I stepped it off.
For hunting my sweet spot is 15-18 yards, so I set up for that shot. Doesn't always happen so I'm a situational shooter. For 20 yards and in I'm purely instinctive. For beyond that I gap. My set up is point on at 30 yards and I'm pretty good at that range. If I have a relaxed animal standing still I have no problems taking the shot but I do everything in my power to get in close.
I shoot out to forty pretty regularly. When I am somewhere with the space 50-60. For hunting it all just depends.
Agree with others that I might pass a 8 yd shot if things aren't right
Interesting to hear all the responses. And thank you everyone for chiming in. I agree with everyone and how "feel" has a great deal to do with it. And as a hunter the last thing I want to do is to injure an animal and not make a clean humane kill. I find out to 20 the arrow fly's pretty consistent, but then drops pretty quick after that.
I have a feeling my main targets this year will be stumps! But if an opportunity presents it's self and I feel good and confident, there just might be something down this year!
Also interesting to hear about how for some people practice out to also!
I will occasionally shoot out to 30/40yds if available but, primarily practice at 20yds. Like others have stated, I will not take a shot if it doesn't feel right regardless of distance! Here's a group recently shot at 30yds with a Border Khan.
(https://i.imgur.com/HuoEejq.jpg)
15yds and under.
80 yards on stumps and target butts.
25 yards on live whitetail.
Prefer 20 yards. That's the distance I practice at mostly every day.
I'll shoot at a 3D target as far as they want to set it!!!!
About 95% of the critters I shoot are 15yds or less. If everything feels just right I occasionally take a shot a bit longer.
Bisch
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Yea if everything is right sometimes I will do that longer also Bish , I'm sure you will edit that and no one will know what I'm talking about.
,,Sam,,
I'm with ya Bisch :biglaugh:
This afternoon, shooting at a new Mac deer target and shooting left handed, I was pretty sure of myself out to about 34 yards. About 30 yards right handed. My form and tempo work earlier in the week seems to be paying off. My goal every year is to get to point on without any excess holding.
50 yrds on one running 200yrds with a standing side shot :saywhat:. As close as possible.
One's accuracy limits often do not match what is practical on a live deer. I never shoot at running deer or deer that are staring at me at any range. I usually hold off until they are occupied and not likely to bolt. I am a still hunter, so flexibility on my part is key to making good shots. every one has their own limits and should not gauge themselves by others, I prefer 20 and under, but my last two bucks were both about 40 yards and both busy making rubs at the shot. At the moment that would be too far for me, but i will work on that as deer season gets closer.
Quote from: Maddog20/20 on July 22, 2018, 09:26:49 AM
Are you meaning for targets or hunting? For targets, I'll shoot out to 30 feeling pretty good about it, but my confidence level really drops after that.
For hunting, I won't shoot past 25yds and don't really like over 20. It's not really about what I can hit, it's more about what can happen with the animal. At a compound speed, not much but at recurve speed, that deer or whatever can jump and turn a heart shot into a gut shot pretty easily. I don't mind missing, but I won't take a chance of just wounding an animal.
i echo alot of what Steve posted....20 yds max...15 yds max for whitetails
Shooting at targets is a lot different than shooting at critters. From teaching bowhunter education courses, I can tell you this, most folks effective range is a lot less than they think it is.
Quote from: Orion on July 23, 2018, 09:56:57 AM
Shooting at targets is a lot different than shooting at critters. From teaching bowhunter education courses, I can tell you this, most folks effective range is a lot less than they think it is.
Ditto. . .
At Bear camp this Spring, 4 trad guys- who are all excellent shots at the range - made bad shots on 4 different bears (even completely missing the entire animal in 1 case!). Those shots were in warm weather, at a target bigger than a volleyball, standing still at 10-12 yds (no jumping the string), and in 3 cases they were off the ground (no angles etc). And they missed the intended target by 10-16"!! There is a HUGE difference from a target to a live animal!
Trad equipment has limits, but far more needed consideration/factor is the "head/pressure game." I would hope a police officer or a jet pilot would rely on their prior training and rational decisions accomplished BEFORE the moment of pressure. I realize that decisions are made in the moment- but "feelings" under pressure are probably not the best gauge for an outcome.
After 35 years of this trad thing, I really think FOR THE VAST MAJORITY of trad guys (includes me); 20 is the high end and 15 yd or less is reality. There are the exceptions, but consistent reality and success when no one is looking is often quite different from what gets portrayed in the public discussion.
My 2C
Dan in KS
"There are the exceptions, but consistent reality and success when no one is looking is often quite different from what gets portrayed in the public discussion. "
I couldn't agree with this more! :thumbsup:
I practice out to about 22 or 23 yards, but when hunting, a bit beyond about 15 yards or so and the shot starts looking too far.
So, my hunting shots are at 15 yards and under. And 10 to 13 is just about perfect. If I can see their eyelashes, I know I'm good.
A big part of the fun and challenge is getting the drop on critters at very close range, and I don't mind passing on any shot that looks too far.
Max 20, which means I'm actually aiming for solidly 18 or less (margin of error). I feel a lot more confident at 15 or less. 10 would be better. 5 is golden. I've only had one quasi-shot opportunity on a buck. He was around 20 but the hill was steep so it looked more like 25. I let him walk. Took a nice turkey last spring at 4 yards. There was no hesitation about that shot.
I find it interesting that so many people have a definitive max distance. For me it changes constantly according to my practice (which translates to my confidence). This time last year that distance was about 40 yards, but I was gearing up for a big hunt and practicing daily or even a couple times a day. This year I've had less time to practice and my distance might be half of what it was last year. Whatever the case, my max distance will continue to change all the way up to the day of the hunt.
Why set a limit of 15yrds, be proficient at 40, and then let a deer pass at 25? With my recurve and sight I am pretty confident out to 40 yards. If other factors do not interfere I will take that shot.
I really enjoy these replies, particularly when other forms of hunting seem obsessed about maximizing distance.
Back in the day, before taking an 9 yr hiatus, I practiced out to 40 yards most days, and could consistently pass the 'pie plate' test at that range with my longbows. That said, the longest shot I've taken at a deer was at 30 yards, and it was perfect arrow placement, pass through, and a 30 yard trail. Like others, I've also passed up shots inside of 10 yards.
Now that my shoulders are as repaired as they're going to be, I'm rebuilding my shooting, and changing my form. My effective hunting range will be shorter, and I'm OK with that.
My own test of hunting distance starts with how far can I put my arrows on target in a tight group (6" or less) with no warm up. As I get closer to hunting season, I'll do that after a hard hike or short jog, so I'm a bit winded and my heart rate is up. That's the distance I consider myself competent on targets. For hunting, I'll reduce that distance by 5-10 yards for deer and elk under ideal circumstances (calm game, shot feels right, I have zero doubts,...). Today my hunting limit would be about 18 yards, and that will get me into the woods with a smile. Hoping to extend that to ~25 by the end of August.
Bisch - 15 yards would be a long one!! Must be a Tx thing!! :o
I would have to agree with most people in that "it depends". I've taken some longer shots successfully and I've passed some closer ones that didn't feel right. And I've missed some close ones :biglaugh:
When there's not too much snow or when the bugs aren't too bad and I practice outside I shoot 30 and 40 yards a lot, and sometimes to 50.
However, that's to work on my form, and also just for the fun of it.
I haven't killed anything further than 20 yards in a very, very long time... and I keep us fed, LOL!
The bear I killed this spring was a long shot at 14 yards, LOL, and my last moose was at about 5 yards.
Right now I would not feel comfortable shooting at an animal at any distance. Come hunting season, if I still feel this way, I will sit and watch. 2 years ago 25 yards.
If I'm being honest, if I can't get closer than 25yds, I failed at the "hunting" part.
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I am still working on 25 yards, but hunting shots need to be 20 yards or in, preferably 15 or so.
Practice Im pretty good at longer distances.
But in hunting situations I miss at 8 yds
:biglaugh:
I have missed deer at <15 yards and have cleanly killed a deer at 41 yards. I don't know the exact range until after the shot. Freeing myself from a laser rangefinder is one of the best parts of hunting with a recurve and shooting an "instinctive" style. The best shots I've made on game were a turkey at the base of the neck and a doe deer, both 31 yards, but I didn't know any of these distances until after I shot. I don't think I could shoot 6" groups at that range all day, but I guess that doesn't matter. There is no thought of "that shot is X yards" going through my head. Maybe I'm doing this wrong?
I generally do most of my practice at either 22 yards or 34 yards (even with my shed for 22 yards, standing on my porch for 34 yards) but hunting i want as absolute close as possible. I think i would have a hard time bringing myself to shoot at a deer beyond 20 yards. Flight time of that arrow just leaves a lot to go wrong.
No matter how on or off I am for the season, it can change from day to day. Some nights I cannot get to sleep, sometimes i forget to drink enough water, sometimes I have no appetite in the morning, and sometimes the morning arthritis is almost more than can deal with and still trust myself. i don't know about anyone else, but the first thing that happens to me when I smell morning woods, I can tell that i got a poop coming on. i can't shoot worth a s### when I got a poop coming on, so I don't.
Quote from: pavan on July 24, 2018, 01:32:31 AM
No matter how on or off I am for the season, it can change from day to day. Some nights I cannot get to sleep, sometimes i forget to drink enough water, sometimes I have no appetite in the morning, and sometimes the morning arthritis is almost more than can deal with and still trust myself. i don't know about anyone else, but the first thing that happens to me when I smell morning woods, I can tell that i got a poop coming on. i can't shoot worth a s### when I got a poop coming on, so I don't.
Im tellin ya they need to rename Imodium as the hunters friend
I practice at 10 yards each day, form. Once a week, I shoot at home out to 25 yards, at club out to 50 (form). I am a hunter so the closer the animal the better, on average shoot them at 18 yards. Closes animal was a doe at 10 yards, came in browsing on other side of shrub I was behind. Furthest was 42 yards after stepped it off, didn't think that far. Close is best.
Quote from: toddster on July 24, 2018, 08:44:53 AM
I practice at 10 yards each day, form. Once a week, I shoot at home out to 25 yards, at club out to 50 (form). I am a hunter so the closer the animal the better, on average shoot them at 18 yards. Closes animal was a doe at 10 yards, came in browsing on other side of shrub I was behind. Furthest was 42 yards after stepped it off, didn't think that far. Close is best.
I always suggest "practice far, hunt close." You be surprised at how close 15 yds really is when you practice at 30. It's almost TOO close.
What I do is shoot 30yds as practice and then I'll jump up to 15yd and paper cup tune. It really helps my accuracy and precision at those hunting distances.
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Well I'm a 20 yard or less kinda guy, but things have to be pretty well perfect for me to shoot at 20 yards, I prefer they be at 10-12, to me the game is to get them as close as possible, if I want to kill them at long range, I'd just hunt with a rifle
I agree with Dan in KS. 100% if we are mostly talking about whitetails. I hear guys say all the time they are good to 30 yards on whitetails. I'm not saying it's not true for some guys but I don't think it's realistic for the vast majority of us. It's not necessarily an issue of shooting ability as much as an issue of the reaction time of a whitetail. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of 20 yard shots on whitetails. I'll take them sometimes but seems like I pass on them more often than not. I'm a really big fan of over 15 yards but under 16. Lol.
I've been hitting tennis balls,and a little stuffed toy about the size of a piglet at 27 yards. I hit a jack rabbit at 36 yards once. I get nervous on pigs and deer,and 20 yards looks like it's 40. If the shot looks good at 20 I'll take if not I'll pass.
Quote from: Ark.Buck on July 24, 2018, 11:12:36 AM
Well I'm a 20 yard or less kinda guy, but things have to be pretty well perfect for me to shoot at 20 yards, I prefer they be at 10-12, to me the game is to get them as close as possible, if I want to kill them at long range, I'd just hunt with a rifle
Not disagreeing with the premise , just what's considered " long range".
It seems that acceptable distances may have something to do with where and how people do most of their hunting in combination with most of their practice. I sometimes put up a ladder stand in my backyard for folks to use. It never fails, they have their 15 yard shot on the flat down, then go up the ladder stand and can hardly keep their arrows in my back yard. Perhaps those that only shoot at deer out of tree stands should do a lot more of their practice from tree stands. I like still hunting out away from the woods, I like small game hunting. There is no limit to how far I will shoot at a grounded pheasant or sitting rabbit, this is open country. Many people shoot under the arrow and gun barrel the arrow to get their point on to around 20 yards. Out in an open field that shot is 52 to 58 yards for me, shooting blunts and judo points in the fields is more fun than back yard target pounding. After a while 20 yards feels like spitting distance. Shooting short range one does not get penalized much for short draws and weak releases. Go out and shoot some 40 yard plus shots, those weak shots will show up big time.
I'll shoot at a target as far out as I think I can hit it. Some days that may be 20 yards if the shot is a hard one, sometimes that may be 60-80 yards if its wide open with little to no wind and a large target.
In the woods, I want to be as close as I can be. Each shot is different. While I can't recall killing anything beyond 25 yards or so with my longbow, I'm not going to say that I would never take a shot farther out than that if everything felt right. I can say though that I have passed on A LOT of shot opportunities between 15-25 yards because of various reasons such as: being too cold and not wanting to push the limit when I can't feel quite right or am slightly shakey, being too tired and having poor vision, poor lighting, the animal wasn't in an ideal shot angle, there were potential limbs/vines that could lead to an animal being hurt instead of harvested, the animal was moving too quickly, the animal was too alert, I didn't think I could move without being busted, wind direction/speeds were wrong and could have pushed an arrow out of the perfect window into a cripple shot, I was too high in a tree and the shot angle wasn't ideal, something just didn't seem right although I couldn't place my finger on it, etc. While I have no problems harvesting game animals, I also have no problems respecting them enough to pass on any shot that doesn't feel like a slam dunk opportunity. We as hunters have the choice to choose how/when something dies. There is nothing at all wrong with taking an animal's life to provide for our own but I do feel we need to be managing God's resources appropriately which sometimes means watching them walk away because we might only be 90% confident in the shot.
Following this. . . Always varied ideas and opinions for sure. . .
One thing I noted was some guys do not advocate range finders. But, I stumbled into a used one a few years ago and have been really surprised how it has helped me. Once I am on stand I range everything- then put it away for good. (Sometimes it has surprised me the actual range of some slope, or unique view/contour.) THE BIG THING however; is it gives me a confident "go-perimeter." When a deer crosses the "perimeter" - that mental aspect/decision of shooting is checked off. I am good to "go" if the deer offers me the shot.
Again- Just my 2C worth
Dan in KS
If I take a long stride it is close to a yard, or there about, it has become 'my' yard. When out roving I pace off the long shots for the first part of a roving round. My version of a range finder, just to get the sight picture for the distance in my head.
Quote from: SAM E. STEPHENS on July 23, 2018, 12:09:08 AM
Yea if everything is right sometimes I will do that longer also Bish , I'm sure you will edit that and no one will know what I'm talking about.
,,Sam,,
I did not edit anything, and still don't have a clue what you are talking about????
Bisch
You put a swear in your last post. It is unfortunate that "i" is so close to "o" on a keyboard.
For some reason I shoot better when i am sitting when shooting under 20 yards, but I shoot worse sitting when I shoot over 25 yards. I have a stool with a boat round bottom and a tractor seat. I think it was designed for garden work. I shat on it this afternoon and fell flat on my back. Chiro appointment will be at 3 tomorrow.
I practice to 25. I'm okay there but just 3 yards closer my groups are so much better.
I have a cable box I sit on at 19 to practice a lot. I normally drop my first shot dead on at that range and under that is fairly comfortable as well.
However I set up to shoot game 15ish. If they'll give me a 10 yard shot I'll take it.
Still it's a confidence thing. If I shoot a few arrows at camp and am feeling it I'm golden. If not I may just enjoy time in the stand and not shoot even if I get an 8 yard shot.
Im still building up to it I guess.
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I am surprised that I got this much response from everyone! Thank you all who is participating! I find it interesting to see what everyone does or thinks about the distance and shots, in both practice and hunting.