Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: mwosborn on July 15, 2018, 12:12:52 PM
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I have tried several types of "rattle can" finishes on my bows over the last few years. None of them have been terrible, but I can't say I have been completely satisfied either.
I have read a bunch of post going back 10 years or so on "thunderbird" finish and a lot of people seem to really like it with only a few people indicating problems. There are a couple of current posts on finishes now and I already have learned a little from these.
I only make 5 - 6 bows a year depending on which friends and/or family want one. (I always make a couple of new ones for myself.) :bigsmyl:
Is it worth it? Will cost me about $75 for a pint kit to my door. I have the compressor and a cheaper spray gun already.
How many bows will a pint spray?
Actual "shelf life"?
Tips and/or suggestions?
Thanks for your input!
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If you have the gear to spray epoxy, you should try it. You should also try some other 2k finishes, like conversion varnish and auto clear coat. See what you like best.
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Thanks for the reply, I would assume that the auto clear coat would be available locally, which I like. Have you used this and if so, what did you think? What kind did you use?
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I was in the same boat as you Mitch. I’ve tried several different finishes, but all of them left me a little disappointed in one way or another.
Finally sprayed my first bow with Tbird today. I’m sure there will be a learning curve to get the smooth finish I’m hoping for. My first go resulted in an orange peel finish.
So I gave it about 5 hrs to set and sanded with 400grit. Then did three low volume low volume/low pressure coats. Gave it a nice frosted finish.
Bow looks great now. Just hope it’s as durable as all the claims.
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PS. The finish I stripped off this bow was an automotive clear coat. Loved the way the finish sprayed and looked. Was very disappointed in the adhesion and durability. I dropped the bow on some rough concrete and the finish spalded out large chips in several spots. The finish may have been a little thin, but still disappointing.
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Thanks Brad. Good information for me. I want something durable. I took one of my bows to a cabinet shop and they sprayed it for me with their conversion varnish. It did not hold up as well as a rattle can of spar urethane or the wheel paint that I have tried.
I have never tried spraying any kind of finish though a sprayer so I am sure there will be a learning curve for me!
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How many bows will a pint spray? Appox. 15 some do more Depends on how many coats you apply
Actual "shelf life"? 2+ years but we say only 2 because not everyone stores properly, keep cool do not store in a hot garage or place like that.
Tips and/or suggestions? Go slow!!!!!!!! One coat should be covering a bow 3 to 5 light coats one right after another. I normally wait about 10 minutes half way through and spray the rest of that coat. Presure is your friend I run about 40 psi lots of air and keep spray volume down, passes should just be dampening the bow.
The bowyers list that we ship to is extensive. Black Widow Montana Bows Javaman Leon Stwert Lonesome wind and many many many more
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Yes, go slow, it takes me a good 10 count to run the sprayer from tip to tip. Just dampen the bow, but DO get it damp, dare I say 'just barely wet'. Don't just frost the thing with successive layers of overspray. If you want to pull back and frost it with the last pass at the end to cut down on the shine, that's ok. But let the last good coat dry for a day before you assess it. You might find you're quite happy with it the way it is. I usually am, with satin that is, and have never had it spook game that I know of. I love that gentle luster.
Once mixed properly, it's all about distance, speed, pressure and volume, but T-bird doesn't seem too critical of these things. Following my first use, I've never had another run in Thunderbird, and have never once had an issue such as orange peel, or adhesion issues like flaking, chipping, etc... even without inline water separators and such. I should always use them, but haven't on most of my bows without incident.
Have you seen the tips on the T-bird website? They were pretty good as I recall.
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Thanks for the input David and Jeff. I think I am going to give it a try.
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Jeff,
Do you thin the recommended 25%?
Also, do you thin with the Tbird thinner?
I used acetone. I wonder if that contributed to the orange peel.
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Yer a slow learner son..
How To Apply Thunderbird Finish
Epoxy Bow Finishing Tips
Using Thunderbird Epoxy 'Endurance Bow Finish'
Thunderbird Epoxy is a two-part finish that must be mixed, allowed to stand, then thinned prior to use. The components are marked ‘Part A’ and ‘Part B’.. Combine equal parts of Parts A and B by volume (such as two ounces each). Mix, and wait a minimum of one half hour to allow the chemical curing action to start and activate the mixture (a process called induction). After induction, thin the mixture approximately 25 to 30% by volume. [For example: 25% of the combined volume ( 2 oz. A plus 2 oz. B =4 oz) would require one (1) ounce of Thunderbird Epoxy Thinner]
IMPORTANT: You MUST let the mixture of parts A and B stand for 30 minutes minimum BEFORE you add the Thinner.
Before spraying the finish coats, properly prepare the surface of the bow so it is ready to accept the finish. This preparation is no different than using most other finishes, and should consist of adequately sanding the entire bow and wiping it clean from dust and fingerprints with denatured alcohol or acetone. Do NOT use lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, paint thinner or any other product except denatured alcohol or acetone to clean the bow.
Start the finish process by filling the wood in the handle section, edges, and tip overlays, if open grained hard woods are used. We have a high solids vinyl filler and sealer for sale that works with our epoxy. However, the epoxy itself also makes an excellent sealer. Either product fills the grain and provides a barrier to the oil in the rosewood, cocobolo, and other similar hardwood families. There are two ways to apply the sealer (or the finish as its own sealer):
(1) Spray or brush on two heavy coats, about 3 hours apart, and allow to dry at least twelve hours. Sand this prep coat down smooth with #220 grit sandpaper. Repeat this process, if more is needed to fill any remaining grain. Usually two coats of sealer are sufficient.
(2) The second way is to mix a small amount of epoxy as directed and brush or rub this into the wood with your fingers or a cloth dipped in the mix. Wait a few minutes for the solution to fill the grain; add a little more, wait, etc, until the grain is filled. After the grain is filled, let the wood dry at least three hours. When it's dry enough to sand out, then sand the riser section smooth, and begin the final finish process. At this point only use a clean dry towel or Tack Cloth to remove dust so as not to dissolve the finish which is not totally cured.
Do NOT wipe down or "clean" with solvents (acetone, denatured alcohol etc.) after applying, drying and sanding on bow as it will have an undesirable chemical reaction.
Actual application is like most other finishes. The epoxy goes on evenly and lies down nicely. Depending on temperature and humidity conditions, it will be touchable in one to two hours, and recoatable in three. In preparing the bow before spraying, sand with #220 grit sandpaper, and wipe down with a solvent to remove fingerprints and dust. You need not sand between coats, but if you do, then allow more time, up to 12 hours, between coats. We recommend three coats of finish to provide lasting protection for a bow. You can achieve a hand-rubbed, extra smooth finish by sanding the bow after two days, with #400/600 wet sandpaper, and then buffing with #0000 steel wool. For cleanup and spray gun cleaning, use Thunderbird Epoxy Thinner, lacquer thinner, acetone, or a mix of the two.
Extra tips:
For a smooth Gloss finish use a prayer with a .08 to 1.0 Valve. Satin and flat can be sprayed with up to a 1.4 valve in your HVLP sprayer
Be sure that all flattening agent in the Satin and Flat is mixed though and that none has settled in the bottom of can. I like to store the can upside down so when done shaking none is left on the lid.
Spray 3 or 4 light coats about 5 minutes apart to achieve on good coat. This give a more even and smoother finish
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"Spray 3 or 4 light coats about 5 minutes apart to achieve on good coat".
Must be, "one good coat"?
So are you guys doing 2 or 3 round of spraying 3-4 light coats, 3hrs apart, or 12 hrs apart if sanding?
I am thinking you need to have a dust free booth, with a 1/2 hr. flash time or you will likely be sanding between coats.
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lignaphile I normally do not sand down fully unless I have grain to fill. Most of the time I buff with a Scotch Brite dish pad
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Bvas, generally, I thin the recommended amount, and use the Thunderbird thinner. Doing so allows the finish to flow out and set at the proper rate. Since finishing a bow may take me a few days, I check the viscosity of the leftover finish each time before I begin and may add a tiny bit of thinner if I feel it needs it.
I've never used acetone as a finish thinner,(well, other than the time I tried the Massey epoxy finish) so can't say whether that may have been part of your problem. In a pinch, I have gone to the auto paint store in town and purchased very good lacquer thinner to use. Same stuff I used when I sprayed Fullerplast.
I buy cheap dept store lacquer thinner by the gallon for clean up.
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David and Jeff,
Your tips were spot on. The other day I mixed a little TBird to cover the writing on my bow. I found a couple scrap pieces of dark glass to play with the leftovers.
I turned my pressure up to 40-45 and started playing with the material volume. Started laying down beautiful once I got the volume down to where it required a slow methodical pass to wet the surface.
Thanks for the tips :thumbsup:
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Took ya long enough.
You from Ohio or something?
:laughing: :thumbsup:
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You bet. Glad it worked out for you.
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Ive used T Bird for many years and I do it a little different . I spray on a coat and let it dry at least 2 hours and that's once over the bow . I also thin with equal amounts of thinner and part a and b . I have spray many times right after mix up with out waiting the 30 minutes and have seen no difference . It is very important to have it mixed without any settling like was mentioned .
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I ordered a kit a thunderbird finish and followed the advice I got here and it turned out great. High pressure and low volume, several light passes for each coat. Three coats on Monday and let it dry, hit is lightly with some steel wool and then 3 more coats on Tuesday. Did two bows at the same time. They look as good as any bow I have owned and better than my rattle can finishes. Went on smooth and even. I am sure it will be more durable also. Will let it cure another day or 2 and then string them up and take some pics.
Thanks for the help guys! If you are thinking about trying it I would say go for it. :thumbsup:
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Mitch, I'm pretty sure you should let them cure for 5 or 6 days at least.
Send bow man a pm and ask him.
I think that's what he told me once..
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Thanks Roy - I will re-read the instructions, but you are probably correct.
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Just found it..
Quote from: Roy from Pa on July 09, 2018, 12:04:28 PM
David, how long should the bow dry before shooting it?
Roy that will depend on curing conditions Normally at least 5 days up to 7 is what we suggest. Better to be safe than to have an issue.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=162708.0
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:thumbsup: Guess I will have to wait until next week to shoot them!
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Yeah I usually wait 5 to 7 days to put the leather grip on, make a new string, serving, silencers, etc. since I hold it in the vise for those things.
Nice stuff ain't it? :thumbsup:
And that's not even the best part. What I really like about it is its durability. If it wasn't as durable as it is, I wouldn't use it, regardless of how good it is in application or appearance.
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If you are in perfect Drying conditions it would be quicker Like in the desert area if you have a lot of humidity be safe
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day to two days and it is plenty solid to string and shoot or put a grip on.
After 24 hours, the finish starts to dust out well when sanding. We still prefer to wait about 48 hours before sanding after last coat of gloss though just in case we had areas that are extra thick, like a run.
BigJim
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Yep 48 hours for me to. And maybe longer on the satin and dull.
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I have put the leather on and shot them the next day after spraying and they turned out the same . I only use satin its a tough finish doesn't chip or scratch ,however I don't like the flat it shows marks very easily. I use 4 coats of satin or several of gloss sanding in between coats and then 2 coats of satin over the gloss with no sanding between . I only steel wool between coats of satin. Ive used T Bird on thousands of bows and never had a failure not like the trouble I had with Fuller Plast . T Bird is good stuff and Bowman gives great service .