are screw on heads indexed so that they all align the same when screwed onto the same arrow or are they a case of individual heads belonging to a certain shaft for orientation purposes?
i use glue on heads with screw in adapters exclusively for the wide choice, weight options and ability to index the heads so that any head can go on any shaft and the orientation will be the same. i just glued up some heads and i was just wondering about whether screw in's are indexed the same as each other.
I'm gonna say no they're not. It's been my experience that way at least. I think your attention to detail is a little more honed than the factories!
I don't think there is this issue with adapters and glue on heads, but, with wood shafts and heads I've had to spin them so they'd sit straight on the shaft. I'd rather have one head laying one way and another head laying the other way and have good flight. Rather than all the heads on there all pretty like and they're causing the arrow to fly all kiddywampus (Yep, I'm turning into my dad).
-Jeremy
i'd rather have all my heads indexed the same way AND spin true. why not have cake and eat it too? because i can.
to me that is a simple oversight for screw in's!
In my experience, no. Factory adaptors whether glued, welded or integral to the head, are not identically indexed.
But even if they were, it wouldn't guarantee the particular orientation a user may want. Some might want the heads oriented vertically, others horizontally, others at some sort of tilt, etc. Additionally, the fact that different brands of inserts are probably threaded a little differently, it would be about impossible to arrive at one specific head orientation through indexing.
That's the advantage of buying glue-on heads and your own adaptors. Can orient the heads any way you want.
Unless you epoxy in your inserts, you can heat them up to get the orientation you want with factory installed broadhead adaptors. Or, install the broadhead and insert as a unit, oriented the way you want. More than one way to skin a critter.
Can't speak for all manufacturers but with Zwickeys and Grizzlies, no. They're not indexed the same.
How is the manufacturer supposed to know how your insert is indexed in your shaft?
There's no way to know. What I have done,and it doesn't always work,but take all the heads you have and try them in different arrows. Sometimes they line up right. If I really want them to be a certain way I just take the insert out screw the broadhead in tight,and when I glue them back in just index them the way I want.
I index the heads, inserts, and arrows before gluing the insert in. That said when you switch broadheads the new ones won't line up the same way.
Quote from: bigbadjon on June 29, 2018, 04:42:44 PM
I index the heads, inserts, and arrows before gluing the insert in. That said when you switch broadheads the new ones won't line up the same way.
+1. In addition, I write numbers on each broadhead and the same number on the arrow shaft, so if I take them off for some reason, like to practice with field points, it is easy to put the right broadhead back on the right shafts.
Quote from: Hermon on June 29, 2018, 11:38:33 AM
How is the manufacturer supposed to know how your insert is indexed in your shaft?
they don't need to know. if all the heads were all the same from the factory then the customer can align them how they want with the insert in the arrow. then they could take any head and put it on any arrow and they would be the same alignment. as it is you can align individual heads on individual shafts but when you swap then between arrows they won't be lined up because the heads themselves aren't indexed identically.
for glue on's here's how i glue them up so that every head is indexed the same so any head can screw on any arrow and they will be aligned the same (carbons)-
1- glue up a BH with no regard to indexing.
2- glue in arrow inserts, again with no regard to indexing.
3- screw the BH you glued up on to an arrow then align nock to desired alignment.
4- repeat step 3 with each arrow taking care to screw on the BH to the same tightness each time.
5- glue remaining BH's using the nocks on the arrows you just indexed to align BH.
you now have BH's that will align the same on any shaft.
when making any subsequent arrows or BH's, they can be aligned using the existing BH's or arrows respectively.
I don't think so unless you always put the same broadhead on the same shaft. If not, the amount you turned the nock to align one broadhead won't necessarily be the same that you've turned the nock on another arrow to align a different broadhead. Regardless, turning the nock can orient the fletching in such a way that it makes greater contact with the arrow shelf/side plate, detracting from optimal arrow flight.
Making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. Just screw the broadhead/adaptor combination into the insert and install the entire set up in the arrow the way you want it. If you stay with the nock position that the fletching jig imparted, the same orientation will result with all the installations.
Interesting problem and but is your method full-proof. :pray:
Trying to figure out which broadhead goes on what arrow is not what I want to do in the woods. Woodies solve that problem, align the head and nock when you build the arrow. On aluminum, do as McDave suggests, use a sharpie. I have numbered arrows for years, just to be able to identify outliers, or the ones that fly weird.
VPA broadheads are. Or at least every one that I have is.
I do know one other trick. If you shoot FMJs you can index you broadheads before fletching because they have the same static spine along the entire circumference of the shaft.
Quote from: Orion on June 29, 2018, 07:40:54 PM
I don't think so unless you always put the same broadhead on the same shaft. If not, the amount you turned the nock to align one broadhead won't necessarily be the same that you've turned the nock on another arrow to align a different broadhead. Regardless, turning the nock can orient the fletching in such a way that it makes greater contact with the arrow shelf/side plate, detracting from optimal arrow flight.
Making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. Just screw the broadhead/adaptor combination into the insert and install the entire set up in the arrow the way you want it. If you stay with the nock position that the fletching jig imparted, the same orientation will result with all the installations.
it's not complicated at all. i think you've misunderstood my method. after step 4 is when you can fletch the arrows as they and the BH's are all indexed the same at that point. any BH's will go on any shaft and align the same, including the fletching, no need to number shafts and BH's at all.
Quote from: Hud on June 29, 2018, 08:12:44 PM
Interesting problem and but is your method full-proof. :pray:
Trying to figure out which broadhead goes on what arrow is not what I want to do in the woods.
well yeah it is foolproof because any of my heads align the same on any of my shafts.
yeah i agree, that's why i index them so any BH fit will fit any shaft with the same alignment. no need to number heads to match them with certain shafts.
OK. Now I understand what you are doing. You didn't indicate that you fletched the arrows after you did the nock manipulation.
However, what you are doing does create a different issue. Most carbons have a stiff side/orientation. Just like with woodies, I usually align my nocks so the stiff side is perpendicular to the bow side plate and then I fletch the arrows. If you turn the nocks to align with the broadheads before you fletch the shafts, the stiffest spine orientation may or may not be perpendicular to the bow side plate will not be equal from one arrow to the next. Probably not enough to worry about though.
You can get little plastic rings you put on the br/head up past the thread or an o ring and they squish up as you tighten the point and gives you some adjustment on alignment. Also great for stopping field tips unscrewing..
Cheers KIM
I guess If the look of the head being indexed in one direction or the other bothered me, I might index them all the same. For shooting however, I have found that if your arrow is tuned well, it doesn't matter how they are turned.
I don't tune all at once. I get it good, then watch how I'm shooting over time and watch the shelf material and make small adjustments over time. I can generally change broadheads from two to three and up or down a few grains and have no issues with flight no matter how they are turned.
BigJim
Quote from: Orion on June 30, 2018, 09:46:56 PM
OK. Now I understand what you are doing. You didn't indicate that you fletched the arrows after you did the nock manipulation.
However, what you are doing does create a different issue. Most carbons have a stiff side/orientation. Just like with woodies, I usually align my nocks so the stiff side is perpendicular to the bow side plate and then I fletch the arrows. If you turn the nocks to align with the broadheads before you fletch the shafts, the stiffest spine orientation may or may not be perpendicular to the bow side plate will not be equal from one arrow to the next. Probably not enough to worry about though.
yeah sorry i didn't explain my method as well as i could have.
i agree with your point about the spine index of the shaft. i found the same thing with gold tip expedition hunters but i changed to easton axis and have found the spine to be very consistent all round the shaft.
you could still do what you do with the spine indexing and achieve glue on heads that index the same. you would have to spine index, fletch then lastly glue in the inserts in the arrow using a BH that has been previously indexed the way i described to orient the insert to the required position according to desired BH position.
Just use Big Jims hot melt glue and you can "index" any head by heating and turning
Maybe file the insert for fine tuning? I would doubt if inserts are exactly the same.
This is one of the reasons I like 3 blade heads. it doesn't matter.
But I can't stand if my 2 blades aren't all turned the same way.
Tedd
My experience has been that they are not. But that could be some insert issues as well.
Currently I use hot melt. So I can heat up the head and twist it to where I want to be. It works, but is not perfect.
It wouldn't surprise me if the higher end machined broadheads are. Valkyrie, cutthroat, vpa etc.
But for normal components you've got two sets of threads to worry about. Insert and broadhead. Obviosuly both would need to have the thread machined the same from part to part.
It really wouldn't be hard. Just implement your machining processes such that you start at the same spot every time. I would think cutthroats and vpas likely have similar threads from head to head.
But there could be a market for inserts that have identical threads from part to part. hint hint, wink wink...
That way any broadhead that's indexed could screw in to any insert that's indexed and every broadhead would align the same and any arrow.
I got some little rubber O rings that let me do the fine tune but since I use steel adapters and glue on grizzlies for the last twenty years it's not a problem any more
I use several different screw on heads; German Kinetic, Magnus Stingers, Eclipse Werewolf, and Wasp Traditional. None of those brands are all indexed the same.
I like my broadheads all lined up so that they are horizontal when I am at full draw. I shoot Easton FMJ shafts with brass inserts. I came up with a really easy way to line them up. That is to use a torch (or you can even use a lighter in the field) to heat up the insert and rotate the head till it is lined up correctly. This works well because I use Big Jim's Quick Stick glue on my inserts. Once lined up, they are only true for that one shaft though.
Bisch
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