Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: KellyG on February 10, 2007, 01:44:00 AM
-
Now that deer season is over I would like to start shaping my stave into a bow. So I might be able to give up my training wheels. It is a 68” long piece of hickory. I have drawn a pattern in pencil on the back.
Handle 4” long centered and 13/8” thick
3” on top and bottom of handle to the limbs
Limbs start at 2” wide and taper straight too .5” at nocks.
I would like it to pull about 50lbs at 27”. I have chosen this design because it seem like it would be a little easier to tiller. From what I have read the limbs would have near the same thickness from lower to knock. Plus I would like to use a band saw to cut to with in 1/8” of my pattern.
Will this work and how thick should I start my limbs out at?
Thanks
KellyG
-
Band saw will get the outline cut out, just go slow and be careful.
I would suggest starting with a 5/8 to 3/4 thick and reduce from there to get the draw wieght you want.
I've never worked hickory, so you may want someone else to reply and not just settle for my advice.
-
Thanks Osagetree
-
That should work :thumbsup:
Keep us posted
-
What does a Guy use if he has No BandSaw? And no way to Use someone Elses?? Just "Whittle" it down as Close you can get it?? :confused:
Just wondering, and the Bow sounds Good Kelly, Hickory is Tough Stuff!!! People us it for Backing and such. :archer:
-
Thanks and I should be able to start cutting tomarrow it the weather is good.
-
I do not have a bandsaw either - I use my wood rasp for almost all my work.. Osage, Hickory, Bamboo etc.
Have made several Hickory bows and BBH as well. It will be slow going but it is good therapy.
When I get close I switch to my scraper and go slow.
Good luck..
-
I kinda' figured between all the Wood Removal Tools I have, I could get it Accomplished! Thanks Ol' Man!!
Time is What I have the Most Of, so if it takes me LOTS of "Therapy" I can see which tool works better than another!!
-
Well I got some wood removed off the limbs. I want try to take it any closer until I get some of the thickness. I will try to do that some time tomorrow. As for the band saw it was a X-mass present from my in-laws. I think it is a little small for the job, because the blade kept turning out, making my limbs wavy for now. I will clean them up with hand tools later. If I get it thinned tomorrow I will take Pics and post them.
Thanks for yalls advice
-
Ok next question. The wood has twisted slightly while drying. When should I try to straighten it? I have the limbs in the shape and width; have just one more edge to rasp down. I have not started to take any depth off yet. Nor have I cut out my handle shape. Should I wait and straighten them after getting some of the depth off?
I will post some Pics tomorrow of what I have done. The band saw really saved me some time in getting off a lot of excess wood.
-
The first PIC just shows how much wood was there when I started.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/staveendview.jpg)
This PIC show how much has been removed, and the twist/bend.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/endviesshoeintwist.jpg)
Here is what a limb that I have gotten close to where the taper needs to be. Only about 1/8thinch needs to come off one side and the taper will be complete on this end.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Picture001.jpg)
This is what is left of the band saw wobbles in the wood almost got this limb done to.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Picture003.jpg)
-
Looking good!
-
Get the stave down to the profile outlines on the back of the bow first, but leave alone all wood mass at the handle area. Then thin down the stave thickness until you get to 5/8" to 3/4" thick from the fades to the tips. Then you can start straightening the limbs with heat or steam.
After you think the limbs are straight enough, then remove wood from the handle to line up your bowstring where you want it in the handle area. Now,,, get to it and post some more pics of your progress!
-
If the stave bend a little sideways it is no big deal, just make a centershot bow. Just to see what I could get away with I have made bows with a rather severe sideways bend, and they shoot just fine. You can also make an adjustment when your bow is getting close to completion.On the outer half or third of the bowlimb remove a little wood on the belly of the opposite side of the bend. Wood will bend to it`s weekest side so this will straigthen it up a little. When making Yew bows where the stave is seldom straight we use this method quite often. Don`t forget to show us the finished product. Bue--.
-
Thanks,
of course I will add more PICS
-
Here are a few more PIC’s. The 1st shows the pattern I laid out for the handle on the back.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/topviewofhandlelayout.jpg)
This is the side view of the handle layout. Either of these layouts may and probably will change. It just gives me a ruff ideal of what I what the end product to look like. I will probably round the transition area from handle to limb a little more than just keeping straight.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/sideviewofhandlelayout.jpg)
Here I have cut down my limb thickness with a band saw. If you look close you will see my lines, I tried to stay about a ¼” from it. I will take it down with a rasp from here. I am just working on limb thickness for now. I stayed a way from my handle area, but the roundness is what I will try to do once working on the handle if I can. I need to take a little twist out of one of the limbs. Once brought to the suggested ¾”.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/ruffedoutwithbandsaw.jpg)
A close up of the tip of the limb.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/tipoflimbthinnedwithbandsaw.jpg)
In this one you can see the limb and the guide line that is ¾” from the back.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/wholelimbthinnedwithbandsaw.jpg)
Once I get the limb rasped down t to the starting thickness I will post more PIC. I started rasping this morning but my honey due list need some attention also. :)
Please any and all suggestions are enraged and welcomed one the work already done, or the lay out.
-
Here is my progress this far. I have the limbs tapered and down to 3/4in thickness. I now need to the minor twist and bend out of the limbs. I plan on clamping the limb down against a straight edge; then us a heat gun and heat it up. Will this work?
The PIC shows the thickness of the limbs. Oh ya it will flex now also not much but my slow work is starting to show.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Limb34inch.jpg)
-
-
Thanks, I did not notice that. Is there apart of the bow you would like to see or is it just an over all pic of the whole bow from different angles what you need?
-
Added the bracket so fixed the PIC, thanks again for pointing it out.
-
Pics of the limb showing the belly side and the thicknes of the limbs back to belly, get some of the handle area in the shot.
I think you're on the right track!
-
Shrink or resize your last pic before the moderators cut it,,, it's too big!
-
Ok Osagetree how about these.
The first 2 are of the thickness of the bow
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/thicknesswhole.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/thicknesslimb.jpg)
The width belly of limbs and handle section.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/bellylimb2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/bellylimb1.jpg)
The width of the back is the last three.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/backwhole.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/backlimb2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/backlimb1.jpg)
Do these help?
-
Looking good KellyG!
Scenario #1 - I would suggest that you go ahead and remove wood from the sides of the fade areas to the lines you've drawn on the back. (Remove wood outside the yellow at the handle area) Probably more square shaped rather than my rounded drawing. Leave as much wood as you can, but get the fades shaped out. heat or steam within the red circle and bend the limb to the side to line up the tips.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/backwhole.jpg)
Scenario #2 - No heating/bending,,, Adjust fade & handle profile to line up string into position. Red dot marks arrow position.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/backwhole1.jpg)
Just my two cents,,, you may want to hear from someone else before proceeding. I think your going to make it with this one,,, looks good to me so far!
-
Thanks again,
That side pulled that way as it dried, and it was not much wider at that tip but it needs to be a little bit of an a challenge.
-
If I followed Scenario #2 that seems like it would be a more center shot bow. However being left handed that would leave only the limb on the left as my top limb.
-
Sorry did not think,,, most shoot right, but I'm a lefty shooter. Just thought you would be right. Nothing wrong with the left limb being on top is there?
Keep us posted!
-
Not yet. I was questing, as to the out come of the option. I think the slight twist in the right limb is the bigger problem for now. I think I will get that out and ensure the center line is still close to the same. Then decide the correct option.
-
I haven't got any bandsaw, either. My first real homemade bow was a hickory copy of a Rapahannock Indian bow made entirely with chert scrapers. (Hey, if you're going traditional...) I'm working now on a red cedar selfbow for an enthusiastic four year old.
I recommend rough shaping a stave with a hatchet and rasp, then finishing by scraping with glass - it works just like stone, but is easier to get a regular edge on.
My question is, given that many of the old bows had nothing even remotely resembling a rest and many others did, how do you all decide which to make?
-
I had read all 3 Traditional Bowyers Bible plus, Making Indian Bows and Arrow the Old Way, and a lot of threads here. I just choose a design that seemed easiest to do on my little band saw. I will probably glue on a rest after I ruff out the handle prior to tillering. Just taking it slow and asking as many questions as I can if I am unsure, but this is my first try so who knows what will happen it is still early in the process.
-
TTT
-
Ok got some more work done. Cut out the handle, and I left it the same as I had drawn out, so basically I went with option 2. I didn’t need to adjust my layout once I placed a string centered on tips and just look were the center is with out any other work. In the last pic is of the Huachuca Mountains, I figured I better get a pic of the snow before it is gone. Today was a nice 70+. Ok what next.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Handlecutfar1.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Handlecutclose.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/stringcentered.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/snowonmountain.jpg)
-
Well it ain’t much but she is starting to bend. I will have to get the right limb bend more to match the left but it seems ok. I am using a rasp about 20 or so strokes on each limb. I also break that down to 10 one direction then 10 the other. How does it look so far? I know there is a lot more work that has to be done but it is my first attempt and so far it looks like a bow.
The first PIC is the stave resting, and the second of course is it on a tillering stick.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/relaxed.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Wegotbend.jpg)
-
Looks like your getting it. Go slow a little at a time and try not to draw more weight on the string than what you want it to be in the end. By the time you reach your draw lenght you'll be ready to shoot. Remember by the time you sand out your tool marks you'll loose up to ten more pounds of draw weight.
KEEP IT UP AND KEEP US POSTED.
-
Thanks I did not think it would be that much lost during the sanding. It is still stiff, I know a lot more wood had got to come off. I will post more PIC when it gets a lot more bend in it. I only has 3.5" of movement it the tip. I work a little then back off this keeps me from getting impatiant.
-
How many pounds do you think it is pulling at the 3.5" of bend?
-
I don't know but I have it at 4" and 50lb. 50lb is may target, but I need to get the draw length now 27".
-
Try not to pull more than your target. Most stay 10 under target. keep taking off wood and working those limbs until you get it on a short string. Keep'm bending even.
-
Here are some more PICs of my progress. In the first the right limb seemed a little stiffer in the mid section of the limb, and stiffer than the left. I took more of the mid and even more off when before I started on my left again. It looked like it paid off and in the seconded they seem more even. I will get a pick of the bow relaxed so I can get some advice on if I should get them to match or leave them as is. The right limb will also be the top.
I think that I will make one more series of pass over both limbs and try a short string on them. It is pulling about 45lbs in both PICs.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Morewoodoffmoretogo.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/bendingmore.jpg)
-
Make yourself a tillering Gizmo. It will tell you where to remove wood.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=033419
-
Thanks Eric,
I will try it.
-
Ok here is one of it relaxed as you can see the left has natural slight recurve a d the right straight. The right should be the top limb because I am left handed. Should I try to get the limbs to match or just leave them?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/relaxed2.jpg)
I used made and used one of Eric’s tillering gismos. I set the pencil to the left limb since it seems to be bending more, and just look at the results.
Left limb
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/pencilemarkl.jpg)
Right limb
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/pencilemarkr.jpg)
Thanks Eric
-
Ok I have it pulling about 40lbs@20”. Should I stop with the rasp and use course sand paper? I am trying for 50lb@27”. The tillering gismo also did not leave a mark on the limb either limb. I think they look even?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/40lb20inc.jpg)
-
KellyG - just a thought.... While working hickory and it's starting to bend, like on a tillering tree.
When I get close to 1/2" limb thickeness I use heavy sandpaper. Same amount of strokes on each limb. After say 30 strokes I always put on a tillering string flex the bow as much as 100 times. No need to try a full draw mind you just flex the limbs.
Good Luck- you've done well already!
-
Thanks,
I am at 1/2", I was just wondering when I have to stop with the rasp and start working out the tool mark and bring her to the desired wieght.
thanks again.
-
Looking good KellyG! I would go to the cabinet scraper. Use the scraper to remove the tool marks, then see where your at. You can use a good pocket knife at right angles as a scraper.
-
thanks,
Osagetree I don't have a scraper, I may try a knife on scrape piece of wood to see if I can scrape and not cut.
-
A palm sander with 120 grit paper is really handy for tillering.
I like half of an old pair of scissors for scraping, really takes the wood off. That is a hickory bow in the picture.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/bow%20making/buzzyscraper2-1.jpg)
The Gizmo won't tell you how the bow is bending in the fadeout section. You have to eyeball this area.
-
Eric thanks again, and yes that is hickory. Do you hold the scissors or knife blade 90 degrees to the limb or is there another angle used.
-
I also use a cabinet scraper. I was given a scrap planer blade that I also like to use. Eric I like the thought of that scissor, I'm gonna have to try one now!
-
I hold the scissors at about a 45 degree angle.
-
What is a Cabinet Scraper?
-
cabinet scrapers
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/cabinetscraper.jpg)
-
thanks,
nope don't have them lying around no where. Just have to continue with the knife.
Kelly