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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: John Malone on May 01, 2018, 06:37:51 PM

Title: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 01, 2018, 06:37:51 PM: Ok guys, gonna try again. Hickory backing, red elm core, hickory belly. My backing came out to 3/32nds so I mad the belly a lil thicker than a 1/4 (11/32nds). Ive decided I will make one of these darn things or die trying, its personal now. Don't know about the belly being that thick but what the hell lets see what happens.
(https://i.imgur.com/PYSWId5l.jpg)
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 01, 2018, 06:51:23 PM: Looks nice..

Wish you luck Johnny.

You should alternate the clamps every other one reversed.

But heck it's not my bow..

:laughing: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 01, 2018, 06:56:30 PM: Pressure strip is to wide, that's the only way I can get the clamp centered. Hasn't caused a problem before, ya just have to make sure it doesn't twist anywhere.
I don't believe in luck by the way, you can wish me free beer, that would be cool.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 01, 2018, 07:47:57 PM: I'll send ya a PBR...

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 01, 2018, 07:57:35 PM: Cool, I like Pabst.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 07:59:50 AM: Well it came out of the form nice and even. In the center it is .620 at the end of the fade its .595 and .490 at the tips. With 27.5 from end of fade to tips that's a taper of .000381818. I have no idea what the hell that means but we will find out.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 02, 2018, 09:00:54 AM: Didn't happen wifout pichers... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 09:16:11 AM: Happy now.
(https://i.imgur.com/RHNuok5l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0j3pMdNl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YpZyOtQl.jpg)
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 09:17:40 AM: Looking at the belly it will most likely blow up. I cant win for loosing fellows.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 09:27:14 AM: This wasn't there before glue up? Maybe I can put some unibond in there? It stops an inch or so before the limb starts to taper, which is 6 inches from the fade.
(https://i.imgur.com/mh1BlY4l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ezdJC54l.jpg)
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: BMorv on May 02, 2018, 09:38:44 AM: Cracks the length of the bow aren't necessarily the end of the bow. I had those show up on a couple different bows. I would say they are checks that were deep in the wood and came out when it was stressed in the form. It doesn't look too bad to me. Maybe someone with more experience with them can chime in, but the couple ones I've encountered didn't affect the bow.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 09:45:11 AM: Thanks Ben, I feel better now. Gonna try it anyway. Should I fill it with some unibond when I glue the riser on, or use super glue?
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 09:45:58 AM: I saw Roy looking, but he left without saying a thing. :laughing:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: BMorv on May 02, 2018, 09:51:02 AM: Now that I think about it, both times I had those were when I used an osage belly. I bet Roy has seen those with as much as he uses osage on his tri lams.
Unibond would be more for aesthetics, super glue would be your best bet a stopping the crack from propagating.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 02, 2018, 10:16:52 AM: I'd fill it and go for it.

I'd use super glue also.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 11:00:58 AM: OK. I've read about super glue a lot, I'm more of the duct tape and coat hanger type but I can try new things.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: BMorv on May 02, 2018, 11:24:50 AM: CA glue has a particular property that makes is useful in bow building. It can fit in tiny cracks were other glues can't.
Unibond is a gap filling glue and wouldn't get to the end or beginning of a crack where the glue it needed the most.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 12:30:15 PM: That's what I thought, so I should put it in there until its full, multiple applications. That's what I've read anyhow.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Forwardhandle on May 02, 2018, 04:42:39 PM: The real thin water like CA works great for crack filling I have had cracks like that before on sinew bows ! I never made a wood tri lam but those length wise cracks most times are a non issue on other wood bows other then esthetics !
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 02, 2018, 10:14:36 PM: All i have on hand is gel, I know that want work, have to get to town to get the right stuff. Saturday maybe.
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Wolftrail on May 04, 2018, 01:34:38 PM: I have had great success with Super glue normally on cracks about .006" - (6 thou in layman's terms). Has not let me down yet. I hate seeing cracks like that, a bowyers nightmare....... :scared:
I used feeler gauges exclusively in rebuilding car engines now I'm using it for bow building, go figure. Digital caliper.............whats that...? I'm old school if it breaks its the material dont need any fancy digital malarkey to tell me any different.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 04, 2018, 10:19:03 PM: Well tomato boy..

What's the deal?
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 05, 2018, 08:37:59 AM: Been busy, gonna get some glue in there and a riser on it today. Don't rush an old man.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 07, 2018, 07:09:53 AM: Got the riser on and all cleaned up, it happened without pics. Ill get some this evening when I start tillering. Got some internet connection problems, gonna halve to call someone to fix it.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 08, 2018, 07:02:38 AM: I will make one of these damn things one day but evidently not today. The belly wood is thinner than the core and backing, it still wont bend in an arc. I never touched the fade area it bends in a V shape. Mid and outer limbs are straight as a board at 3/16 of belly wood. I think this hickory is cursed.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is not an option.
Post by: John Malone on May 08, 2018, 07:03:22 AM: Quote from: John Malone on May 08, 2018, 07:02:38 AM
I will make one of these damn things one day but evidently not today. The belly wood is thinner than the core and backing, it still wont bend in an arc. I never touched the fade area it bends in a V shape. Mid and outer limbs are straight as a board at 20 inches and 3/16 of belly wood. I think this hickory is cursed.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 08, 2018, 07:16:16 AM: Pictures Johnny..

Sounds like the fade area was made too narrow or the limbs are too wide and thick.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 08, 2018, 07:31:52 AM: Ill get some, kinda embarrassing. She's not dead yet.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 08, 2018, 08:08:52 AM: Ok, don't worry about failures, you are still new to this tillering thing.

I had a lot of failures early on in making bows. Still do once in a while.

Maybe on your next bow, don't put in so much reflex. Also Hickory is a very strong wood.

Were you at 20 inches on a long string?

When my bows are done, the outer 2/3rds of the limbs are flat at a 6.5" brace.

(http://i.imgur.com/ICVQVJ6.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ICVQVJ6)

Same bow at 32 inches on tree.

(http://i.imgur.com/OdEnLQ2.jpg) (https://imgur.com/OdEnLQ2)
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 08, 2018, 08:17:02 AM: Was this bow symmetrical or asymmetrical?

This one picture a ways back doesn't look right, unless it's just the picture?
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 08, 2018, 08:25:23 AM: Its the pic, it was perfectly symmetrical.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: BMorv on May 08, 2018, 10:12:17 AM: Quote from: Roy from Pa on May 08, 2018, 07:16:16 AM
Pictures Johnny..

Haha.

I don't want to pull you in a bunch of different directions. I'll just say that I find Roy's look straight to me at brace, and you don't have to make it bend in an arch. And 3/16" belly thickness is fine. I wouldn't think you'll run into trouble there until you get closer to 1/8".
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 08, 2018, 01:40:07 PM: Johnny, tomorrow you are gonna have a smile on your face.

But I'm not sayen why..

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 09, 2018, 07:18:43 AM: Roy, its 7:20 a.m. I aint smiling, I'm knee deep in chicken crap. That bow is toast, I got ticked off and started hacking away with the scraper, should have walked away. Oh well we shale try again.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 09, 2018, 07:38:18 AM: It's still early...
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 09, 2018, 01:52:11 PM: Thanks Roy, how did you know I was almost outa beer?
What are the measurements? 66 long, 1.5 for 6 inches taper to half inch tips? 4 inch long 3/4 handle and 4 inch fades?
Backing strip? hickory 1/8th or bamboo? I can only get my boo to barely over an inch wide. I have one backing strip that's hickory but its 3/32nds
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 09, 2018, 01:54:15 PM: I will start a new thread when I start, if it works ill donate it to the St. Jude thingy.
I'm smiling now.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 09, 2018, 02:58:18 PM: Yup on measurements.

I would buy a bamboo backing if I were you...

Hickory has caused you nothing but trouble.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: BMorv on May 09, 2018, 03:13:54 PM: Hey, I have trouble getting osage too....not fair
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 09, 2018, 04:08:57 PM: Ill get some boo.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 07:16:12 AM: Will it still work if its not 1.5 wide? Those things are picky about width vs. thickness best I can tell.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 10, 2018, 07:29:50 AM: I make my flares 1 1/4" wide and hold that 1 1/4" width out 6 more inches, then straight taper to 1/2" at tips.

So the widest part on my bow is 1 1/4".
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Forwardhandle on May 10, 2018, 09:49:20 AM: John Echco archery sells all ready flattened bamboo backings for a reaseonable price never bought the pre flattened but the other boo I bought from them was awsome quality !
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: BMorv on May 10, 2018, 10:05:51 AM: Yeah Johnny, what kind of bamboo are you using and how are you preparing it?
Most bamboo I've working with comes in 2" slats and you have no problem at 1.5" width.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 01:03:28 PM: Not sure of the type, but the two boo backed bows I made are still shooting great. Only thing is by the time its an 1/8th its an inch wide. If I try a lil harder I think I can squeeze 1 1/4.
Got two beautiful pieces awhile back, or so I thought. All the nodes were 12-13 inches apart, but the crown was so high I couldn't get much width from them. Gonna save them for experimental purposes, should work when I get some more Ipe.
Ill check out Echo.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 01:17:03 PM: That's a good price for raw boo of good quality. Can you flatten that stuff with steam or do you have to sand it flat from the start?
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: BMorv on May 10, 2018, 01:23:19 PM: The stuff from echo is good. I bought a couple slats from them. No you won’t be able to steam it. Leave the flares on the boo a little thicker like .140” if you want to get more width.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Forwardhandle on May 10, 2018, 01:58:24 PM: I do it on the jointer & belt sander and taper by hand but it could be done by hand too.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Bowjunkie on May 10, 2018, 02:40:25 PM: Anyone selling bamboo to bowyers, as a 'bowyer supplier', SHOULD sell pieces from large diameter poles so that it's flat enough to easily get decent bow width at 1/8" thick. It should also be reasonably far between the nodes. Personally, I've had good luck taking my chances on the big auction site buying bundles of 25 or 50. Do a search on there for "natural bamboo slats". Often shipping can be had for free and they end up costing $5 a piece. Usually most or all of them are good quality. There might be one or two with a scratch or bruise I don't trust(we can grind it for a core), or a couple that are close between the nodes, but the vast majority of them have been fine and as good as those I've gotten from bowyer suppliers. Heck, that's probably where they get em :dunno:

I've made bamboo backed osage bows 70# at 1 1/8" wide.

Nodes should be 12" apart as a bare minimum. I don't know if I've ever made a bow with nodes as close together as 12". I prefer a lot farther.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 03:24:29 PM: Thanks guys.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 07:44:29 PM: Ok, I ordered a couple raw pieces from echo. Need to order some sinew and a scale from Mike and ill be good for a week or so.
Also had the guy down the road make me a pair of b. walnut core lams the same as these and a pair of 1/4 inch Lemon wood billets for the belly and ill back it with boo also. I will have 75 bucks in that one so ill practice some more with Roy's free stuff. :laughing: Just kidding, I'm sure this one will work out nicely.
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 10, 2018, 08:38:53 PM: Ya mess up that Osage and I'll never talk to ya again...

LOL

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Trilam, failure is sometimes inevitable.
Post by: John Malone on May 10, 2018, 09:09:47 PM: If it don't work I'm blaming it on the guy who designed it, which was not me. However, if it does work and I'm sure it will, it should also work out pretty good with lemon wood as a belly. I like that lemon wood, its just a lil pricey.