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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Forwardhandle on April 20, 2018, 05:34:33 PM
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Hi Fellas I wasn't going to make another bow tell winter but day dreams of making a 68 in. Kennym R/D with tip wedges & power lam got me going has any body else here made one beyond the 64 in. ?
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Yep made more than a couple at 66'' and also 2 at 68'' with the reverse taper tip wedges you mention. They are still a really good performing bow with no bad habits.
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Ok thanks Bob I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind , I'm wondering how you calculated your stack thickness ? I'm looking for 48 lb. @31 also was considering a more shallow glass reinforced footed riser with only a depth of 1 1/2 in. But Kenny pointed out the shock factor with lighter riser so some thing to ponder , I appreciate the response or any other advice.
Ritchie
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I will have to consult my records tomorrow and will let you know.I think the last one at 68" was very close to that weight
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Ok thanks Bob no rush still deciding on riser wood & such but appreciate your help Thanks !
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:thumbsup:
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Last 68" I built was 50# @31" so drop a little of this stack should get you close. 3 lams at .001 taper and total of .220 and one parallel of .065 . Probably make parallel little under . 060 and glass total of .080 should go close. I incorporated a reverse taper wedge of 10" to help with string angle too. Works great.
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Thank you much Bob I appreciate it I will get the guy above working on it , I'm just having a heck of a time deciding wood combinations ,I feel like a kid playing with lego's piling wood blocks together looking for the right combo....lol Thanks !
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Your most welcome. Hope stack works for you.
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I'm sure it will, I will bounce it off of Kenny he hit the last 2 bows dead on , If you got a minute could you comment on how that bow draws, I'm building this one for 3 /d / hunting the 64 in. Draws smooth at are draw bet the 68 in. Is as smooth as a baby's butt ?
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It was not for me, but I shot it a fair bit while tillering etc, and it performed very well, smooth and quick. I am sure you will be happy with the outcome Kenny will see you right, he is a good man.
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Yep he sure is , Thanks for the help there Bob I appreciate it ! :goldtooth:
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Not a problem,glad to help!
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Very curious as to how things go... I have a 64" design that is very similar to Kenny's... I been wanting to build a 68" bow... I am thinking of just moving the power lam section out 2 more inches on the limb... Does anyone or Kenny have any insight on that??
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Thanks guys, I need more coffee before I think this morning.
Rich, I build nearly all my bows with the superlam which has a powerlam builtin the taper, adds 3to 4" to riser length. Weight gain is around 2# and fps added seems to be about 2 fps from the standard lam.
It sure won't hurt to add a power lam with limbs that long. Build two and tell us how it does on 68".... :)
Bob, did you do anything different at riser or tips?
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:thumbsup: Cool... I call my lam with built in wedges a Hyper-Lam... I just used the term power lam so everyone knows what I am talking about...
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All just the same as shorter bows except for the reverse wedge I made it quite long at ten inches but seems to work ok.
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Rich, I build nearly all my bows with the superlam which has a powerlam builtin the taper, adds 3to 4" to riser length. Weight gain is around 2# and fps added seems to be about 2 fps from the standard lam.
Question for you, Kenny: what would be the difference in performance (as far as you could guess if you don't know) between a 68" bow with an 18" riser + one of your powerlams vs a 64" bow without said powerlam if they end up the same draw weight?
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Wild guess, the 68" would be 3.7 fps slower. :biglaugh:
Really,I have no idea but the 64" has plenty of working limb so I'm thinking the 68" will be smoother but slightly slower. Also the tests I did on the 64" showed the superlam to pick up a couple fps, which is basically just extending the riser.
Ritchie should be able to give us a hint in a bit since he has a 64" and is getting ready to build a 68" ( last one for this year :saywhat:) that will be close to same weight.
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Well the way work hours are going this year might make a honest man out of me might be the last this year 🙄 But Im not so convienced that this 68 will be slower with heavy arrows ,I plan on shooting DF 600-650 grain arrows ,Im building it as a pig hunter/3d bow ,but for arrows 450-500 grain Im going to guess Kennys 60 in forward handle bow is going to be the winner in terms of speed it has a lot of forward loading (early string tension ) its a out right Rocket launcher , I will test all 3 with different weight arrows the test for the 64 & 60 will be in a couple of weeks I will post the Numbers.
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I just got around to testing the 64 in. I said I would come back and post have the 60 in. done to but havent tested it yet here is the stats 47 lb @ 30 1/2 , 16 strand D97 string 550 grain arrow below is a 3 shot average crazy for a 11 3/4 gpp arrow and that heavy string I will take it 👍🏻 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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That's very impressive.
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I wish I had a 10 gpp arrow but at my draw length it's hard to get any lighter arrows to spine probably could find carbon arrows but the performance speaks to his design these heavy arrows shoot nice out of this bow , I'm going to test the 60 in. Forward handle bow next week end !
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Ok here is the stats on the 60 in. 48.6 lb @31 in Im pulling this bow to full 31 in. due to riser design using the same arrow , I checked and rechecked the test to make sure these a real numbers this bow is topping 200s at my draw the highest as posted crazy ,but It will hit 195 fps all day with 550 grain arrow its hard to believe but thats for real ,Kenny said that the 64 in is the faster bow ,at the time I talk to him I had allready had 300 arrows threw it but didnt chrony then ,I took his word for it but it was hitting the back stop harder then the 64 in. Now I know why...lol This shorter bow is a lot more sensitive to form & draw then the 64 in. But wicked fast !!
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Hmmm, I thought I said the 64" would be faster than the 68" ...
I knew the 60" was a rocket launcher, still shaking my head on how that one came out after 3 fails ... :biglaugh:
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Yep it is a rocket launcher I knew it would be the more angular forward handle design & the all maple lams on this one helped I think , maybe thats what you said maybe I herd it wrong...lol I found 7 1/4 brace works good on this one , its like a hot rod small little changes on this bow have a big effect and with the early draw weight and long arrows it was hard getting the right spine, Im well over 500 arrows now and its handling my long draw no issues ! this one will blind hunt this year !
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On the other hand, I have a 60” FHLB and a 64” D/R Modified at I think the same weight. The mod needs a stiffer arrow than the 60” at first testing with some 400s . Could be getting a false weak tho, ran out of daylight .....
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Keep us posted on those this 60 in. At least at my draw there is a very thin window for spine just a little ether side you get arrow flirt but for me 2216 & 2219 I can get good flight I do to much stump shooting for carbons !
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Did some more testing with heavier arrows 616 grain & 676 grain and the forward handle 60 in. was still the winner , it was driving me nuts the longer bow should have been faster limb/length ratio but measured both and the 60 in. design has almost 3 in. more working limb , go figure , evil genius on this design :thumbsup:
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That's some great speeds. Nice Kenny. Can't believe there's no stacking with a 60" bow and a 31" draw.
Can you post an unbraced picture Ritchie?
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That's some great speeds. Nice Kenny. Can't believe there's no stacking with a 60" bow and a 31" draw.
Can you post an unbraced picture Ritchie?
And maybe the full draw @ 31", if possible? It would be great to see the string angle at that length. If you can't, that's cool. Thanks!!
Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
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Here is a full draw might be pulling it a little farther then 31 in. in the pic & braced, I don't have a un braced with me ,Im at work but will get one later this bow doesn't feel like its stacking at all it actually has more working limb then the 64 in. Im working on a modified version of this bow for heavier arrows will post as I progress ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Here is a unbraced profile the mod Im making is exstending the limbs to 64 ntn Im figuring on a ruff guess it will give me about 3 in. in front of the handle reflex this bow goes to full arc late in the draw giving all the reflex a chance to work but this bow is real stable you really get the sense your shooting a longer bow ! This design has a lot going for it !
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The DFC I did on it was 3 ppi to 32” , I ran out of arrow to mark inches on so had to quit... lol
It took 4 attempts to get what I wanted and I almost gave up on her...
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Hey Kenny what where the failures out of curiosity ?
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They shot Ok , but I hated the look of them and they didn't draw to the length this one does. Not as fast either , by feel, never chronoed them because I hated the look of em.... :tongue:
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Thanks for the full draw pic! That looks pretty sweet at a hair over 31". The braced and unbraced profiles are slick as well. I'll have to take a crack at one of those someday!
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Yeah that's a nice looking profile. Aggressive but smooth. Impressive bow.
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Got my lams and templet this week from kenny found some pipe strait sugar maple boards and glued up the base for the 64 ntn in. foward handle bow Im kicking around dialing it back to 63 in. Its looking kinda aggresive at 64 in. But will see the shop thermometer says 107 Deg to darn hot to decide today shot the laser thermometer in the rafters 122 Deg ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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You have a bow oven built into your house, congrats. I think we Texans and Southerners could probably make a cheap solar oven to cure epoxy in summers, I've tried it and it got up to 145 degrees in the spring.
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I finally got some time to work on the 64 in forward handle bow form, it looks pretty radical design when you see it in real time , Im taking my time making sure every thing is symetrical square with that much reflex ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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You going topless with this form ? :laughing:
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Yep topless :thumbsup: I could do a 66 in. If this one works out it's 68 in. End to end might have to try your stable core for that one !
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I finally got some time to work on the 64 in forward handle bow form, it looks pretty radical design when you see it in real time , Im taking my time making sure every thing is symetrical square with that much reflex !
That looks pretty similar to the profile of a Thunderchild...I like it!
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Will see Im pretty motivated to get it done just not much time with construction in full bloom here , I dont know if the 60 in. could be perfeted but will see !
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Well got the 64'' forward handle form done these topless forms are quick to build, I like them ,moving on to the riser next [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Here is some thing I over looked on this forward handle form when I made it ,my other form I just drew a center line on my template material and traced the contours but with the pegs on this one couldn't do it ,there in the way so have to trace it on card board and then to the template material ,If I had to do it again I would have traced it before the pegs, I'm just posting in case some body else over looks it on the deep curves of Kenny's form ,Played with some footing lay out but going to thin the maple in the morning the bottom wood is green future wood but always looks blue when you take a pic of it I'm replacing the osage with yellow action wood !
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Got my pattern sanding template made for the 64 '' forward handle bow , nice beautiful cool day in Chicago land really enjoying it for a change, my yellow action wood should get here next week and can get the footed riser blank glued up , so far this build is a much easier build then I thought it would be and is going fast with only couple hours here and there !
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Make sure you check the riser with the actual form Ritchie, do a dry run...
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You have a bow oven built into your house, congrats. I think we Texans and Southerners could probably make a cheap solar oven to cure epoxy in summers, I've tried it and it got up to 145 degrees in the spring.
I have no doubt that's true. I spent a year in Houston because of my (ex) wife's job. I made friends with another plumber who would bring me on as needed for replumb jobs. A lot of the houses there have galvanized trunk lines run through the attic and branches dropping through the walls to the fixtures.
Anyway, I have no doubt the temp in one of those attics could easily reach 150f.
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Yep I made it off the form fits like a puzzle but it's pretty darn close to the drawing too , I'm leaving it slightly proud for custom fit to form/lams like I did the other one every thing smooth sailing so far :cheesy: I ment the template is dead on leaving the riser proud for fit !
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Got my yellow action wood today from Kenny this stuff is awsome looking ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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That is pretty sweet! Looks a lot like yellow heart/satinwood at a quick glance.
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Im posting as I go as I have a friend interested in making one of these , I got the front part of the riser ruffed to the form for the 64 '' foward handle , waiting for more time to joint the lams and custom flash light fit the riser to them before doing the ramps !
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looks awesome- am following this with my 31.5" draw!
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Wayne even the 60 '' version of this bow would draw 31.5 '' I have a tendency to over draw when shooting threw the chrono my normal draw is 31 '' the more I
learn about this design the more interesting it is ,this design has a lot of similarities with the Egyptian composite bows and they where designed for long war arrows ! If I can get up and running Im hopping to poke a dear with this one this fall !
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The 60" went to 32"without stack before I ran out of arrow and was a constant 3# per inch. Had I had an assistant handy I would have seen total draw before stacking....
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Thanks Ritch and Kenny. i have the template from kenny and plan to be building one for my bow season this year.
going on a twoo week wilderness, boat only access hunt.
so will be taking it and some old bow i got from an old fart in Pa. :laughing:
i still cant believe the speeds you got with your 64" bow and now the 60"
i got 170fps with 535gr arrows out of my kenny m 64.
i did use yew lams- what did you use in your 64?
i wonder how much speed a person may lose with incorrectly spined arrows- the day i tested the 64 the shafts i was using were a bit under spined, but only 3 of 4" fletches , shield cut, not very tall.
cant wait to get started on the 60"- this thread has been inspirational.
thanks
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Good luck with your hunt ,on the R/D if I remember right its 90% maple and one walnut lam in the middle, the 60 '' is all maple , I agree on arrow spine making a difference I have done a fair amount of testing with natural material bows & got a increase of 9 fps with proper spine bare shaft so it probably applies with glass too, Im not recomending this but I modified the front view profile views on both bows , aka(side tiller) narrowing it can be touchy but I believe it helps with Mass/speed with out losing much draw weight , Im not trying to increase speed with the 64 '' Im trying for heavy arrow/speed combo , just my thoughts but I think maple makes quick bows ! But the efficient design is 90 % of it !
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thanks for the info,
what do you mean by side tiller?
trapping the back?
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I just mean narrowing the front view & tips for example the plans called for 1 1/2 width on the R/D and mine eventually end up at 1 5/16 out of the fades & more narrow at the tips but I'm not recommending doing it ,I'm just saying that's what I did with mine ,I never made a glass bow before that one and was applying what I learned with self bows but it can be dangerous in the sense you can go to far and change the string angle and lose all gains and then some , plus at our draw lengths it's more amplified as far as stability ,it's a slow process making sure every thing is bending right and not under shooting your draw weight but you can end up with a little faster bow ! But with wood if you get the tips bending to much you can put back on the form and heat treat the tips & your usually good, with glass probably up the creek !
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gotcha, many thanks!
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Fuji I'm far from a exspert on speed but another thing I have found is if your after speed , the string material & strand count can make a huge difference on speed , my tiller string is usually B-50 and when I switch to FF plus or D97 I can usually pick up 7-8 fps or more if you lower the strand count but I'm to chicken on hunting bows to get to thin !
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Here is a Hillbilly laping trick I picked up for making these curved risers , I tape down all the lams & glass that goes under the riser and clamp the riser on the center line and take a flash light & eye ball the high spots and sand them off with the spindle sander then when I get close I take a sanding belt and cut the width of the form and tape it down and put pencil marks all over the riser and place the riser on the center line and rub it back and forth with in a 1/4 '' and it clearly shows the high spots that you can miss by eye and when done with that I take the sand paper & tape off and reclamp to see the fit , last time I did it on the R/D 64'' it was a perfect fit this riser is more curvy I will post when done its time consuming and tedious but worth the effort to me ! Plus you get a dead parallel riser to your form
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Pretty neat trick..
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Well I ended up with one limb 1/16 positive to get the perfect fit & ended up with a little thinner fades by 30/1000 then the plans call for but better thinner then thicker but looks good ,now going to scarf joint the lams , this riser on the forward handle bow was more difficult time wise ,to get every thing lined up right if you change one thing on one side you would have to ballance the other side , but the first time is always harder next time it will be easier !
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Got all the lams and supper lam scarf jointed & glued up , cleaned the riser fit a bit more , zero gaps & zero light threw dry clamped , going to drill the holes in the form for zip ties and add aligment washers ,mark all centers and do a dry run with the glass in place and air hose ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Looks sweet..
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Thanks Roy you going to make one ? :goldtooth:
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Maybe someday.
I already have a Kennym bow made by the master himself.
:bigsmyl:
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Did a dry run with the topless form, glad I did, found some weak links on the end of the form tips that Im adding more holes to keep even pressure, Im using really wide commercial zip ties on top of the pressure strips, seems to work great the only thing I dont like is when the mule tape is in place you lose sight of all alignment marks but this mule tape does not flex under pressure at all when aired up Im going to add some alignment washers & more holes and should be good to go ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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In the oven glued up I had a peg break on one side during the dry run I did 3 dry runs before glue up its a little different with the topless form but I like it so far ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Gotta like topless!! :biglaugh:
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Yep easy to make but broke 2 , 3/4 in hard wood pegs going to 70 lb the second one during glue up so just wraped around the bottom of the form learned a lot of tricks on this glue up next one will be a breeze !
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Need rebar? !
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Im going to take a dado blade or router and put channels in the botom of the form and wrap around it next time ,I can see why he used metal pegs in the vid ! Oh well cant have any fun unless you have some thing go wrong and make you think on your feet 😮
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On secound thought Im going to get some metal round stock cut the wood pegs off and redrill and epoxy them in place ! It will save on mule tape.
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I woke up 1:30 am wide awake with this darn bow on my mind ,I couldnt run any power tools so poped it of the form and cleaned it up with a bastard file and scrapers which really is not a bad way to do it kinda therapy..lol ,but with all the problems during glue up it seems none the worse , every thing looks good so far its still setting at 70 '' I wanted to see how long I could go on this modified form Im thinking 66'' on the next if this one works out !
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Looking nice..
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Got every thing cleaned up and this is where the rubber meets the road cut it down to 66 '' for a 64'' NTN & checked the string alignment it is perfect , taking my time making sure the form was as perfect as I could get it ,payed off , checking the string alignment is in Kennym's R/D bow build for you guys that asked , Im going to lay out the front profile next & hopefully get it strung today or tomorrow ! The reflex ended up at 3'' cut at 66'' so I will have at least 2 1/2 at 64 NTN Im guessing.Also I run the center line & string alignment both back & belly just to make sure every thing is symetrical or detect any limb twist !
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Looking nice, Ritchie.
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It's getting there Thanks Roy !
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It is looking good, lined up nice. Couple of questions if you don't mind Ritchie, Did you begin narrowing the limbs right at the end of the fades? And how long is the riser? Thanks?
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Don't mind at all Mitch love to talk about this design, I'm out in never never land with the 64 in. so this is going on as we post but talked with Kenny last night and decided on starting out at 13 in. From center then taper to 5/8 so on this 16 in. riser that's well beyond the fades I'm back at 12 in. now and that puts me about 3 1/2 in. Parallel out of the fades with this bow I'm slightly shorter on the riser say 15 3/4 I'm pulling this bow to 31 in. Target draw @48 lb so take every thing I'm saying take with a grain of salt but should be able to tell how it works out shortly ! The line in the pic is at 12 in. where the taper is starting as you can see it's well out of the fade !
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Here is some more pics you can get a better idea of the amount of reflex and profile ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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This bow feels like some awsome early draw every thing measures even so far only ruff rounded the limbs so only pulled it to about 13 in. or so I guess so far I think the profile looks good at 12 in. parallel what do you guys think ?
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I really like the profile that is developing. Very nice.
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Thanks Lonnie so far it's working out , hope to have this one ready to hunt this year !
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You got time to build one more Ritchie! LOL
Lookin good! :thumbsup:
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Yep a 66 in. Action wood riser ,but I still have the 68 '' R/D lams collecting dust This is my 5 th bow this year and they all where going to be the last for the year...lol
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If this one works well I’m gonna have to alter my template for the longer length.... :o
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Well I dont know for sure yet but with the increased reflex the early draw is substantial ,Im going to guess its going to more then compansate for the increased mass ,I was playing with the 60'' & this one side by side its a different bow feel defiantly more early weight , I will run some tests when done !
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Looking good Ritchie!
What brace height and taper rate do ya have?
I was anticipating a little bit of limb contact on the string with that much reflex, but it looks like it comes off clean.
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Brad I think Im at 8 1/2 or somthing like that I dont have the handle overlays on and was just trying to simulate 7 1/4 '' brace at the deepest part of the handle with it on , the supper lam works great just stiff enough to hold the reflex but not to stiff to come out for no string contact ,I played with it floor tiller wise before choping it down to see what max length could be and even with the crazy reflex of the 68 '' it still would straiten out Im thinking this bow will reach its best performance at these longer lengths and draw well see ! The total taper rate .001
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It’s funny how you build a form for one length and it performs better at another. I built a form for a 56”. It does great at 56” and 60”, but is a bit sluggish at 58” :dunno:
I understand on the BH. Most grips are around 1-3/4” deep, so you can measure off the back of the bow and subtract that to get your BH.
Surprising they straighten out that well with only a .001 taper. I thought for sure it would be .003. How far from center does the super lam extend?
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If I remember right I think 13 in. from center on the power lam portion of it , I wonder what would happen if this bow was made with just a power lam and zero taper & no tip wedges to many ideas and not enough time to find out but I defently see a 66 in. In the near future !
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Given my obsesive compulsive bow nature ,Im always comparing bow designs & asking my self why one design does this & the other design does that but in my exsperience there is always trade offs , it will be interesting to do a shoot off berween the R/D & the FHLB , in the pic both bows are 64'' but the FHLB has more then 3 '' of working limb , the R/D bow is the most docile accurate 64'' I have ever had In a hunting bow , it will be intersting to compare the two ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Well I got a little time after work to get the limbs rounded over & narrowed down and working down the tiller, sorry for the pics got the wife to begrudgingly take a full draw pic while she was in the middle of fall decorating...lol ,and had to pull it on the tree one handed and take a pic but its setting at 3/16 positive 31 in. @ 48 lb I may drop this one a little lighter for late season hunting , this bow is very smooth drawing you think your pulling a lighter bow then it is , all opinions or critiques welcome ? [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Peesonally Id like to see a little more bend in the outer third of the limbs. But they may just look stiff because of the extreme amount of reflex. Smooth Is usually a good thing, but may also mean your giving up power.
How wide are you at the tips?
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I'm still wide at the tips 5/8 in. I wanted to get it shooting first then narrow every thing down a bit more as I shoot it in, here is the 60 in. for comparison ,I think this design is kinda loosely based on a leaver type bow with stiff outers ?
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Are the full draw and tree the same draw? Or are you pulling further in the full draw pic?
For some reason the bow looks a little better in the full draw pic. Don’t know if it’s drawn a little further and outer third is bending more or it’s just the background playin tricks on my eyes.
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No it's the pics on the tree with the shop lighting it did that before with other bows it looks like the limb closer to the light bends more and you get a funky pic if I reverse the bow it will look the same and the 60 in. Looked the same I need a gridded tree but every thing in my small shop has to be portable I will get a out side full draw pic when the wife isn't obsessed with fall decor...lol ,It will probably get more bend as I narrow but I'm with in a couple pounds of where I want so going slow !
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You don’t even need a gridded background. Just a solid background. It will help you(and us) see what the bow is doing.
Just mount the tree on that wall where you took the 60” full draw pic and call it decor :biglaugh:
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This pic cost me going into the crawl space to drag out more decor...lol but here it is ? 64'' 60''
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:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
The sacrifices we make.
But it was well worth it.
Bends look much better in that pic.
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Thanks Brad it looks very similar to the 60 in. to me but been staring at the bend to long nice to have other eyes on it I will finish it out and do the final tweeking !
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Hard to keep your eyes off curves like that! :biglaugh:
I think its looking good. We will need a performance report tho... :thumbsup:
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Might have to wait tell next month for the performance report of poked two white tails for the sausage machine :laughing: :laughing:
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The only report that really counts... :thumbsup:
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Lol hey Kenny or Brad do you think on this one I could depart from the norm of strait taper front view profile and take the tips about 10 in. out and taper more narrow with out effecting tiller ? My problem is Im close to my target weight and I need to still final sand ,I dont want to side tiller more much as I would defiantly lose more weight but need to get the outers lighter with this lighter weight bow ? If it was a wood bow I wouldnt think twice but Im a glass bow green pea 😃 ?
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I don’t see why not. They do it all the time on recurves.
You will probably see just a little more bend in the outer limbs
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Ok thanks Brad with those wedges in the supper lam tips it's pretty thick I think I can get away with a fair amount with out bending or changing the string angle much ,I'm leaving the inners alone this bow loses it fast in those areas like most bows but a little more exponentially due to the reflex I might be able to narrow up the mids a bit yet too with out losing much , got my belly overlay blank glued up today & started working on the 68'' R/D while it's curing !
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I haven’t tried the double front taper like you are talking, but have thought about. So far haven’t needed to. As all the bows I’ve built have been 60” and under. So I need to keep my tips stiff to maintain string angle.
Most of my bows have been 1/2” wide at nocks. A couple of them I did them 1/2” wide an inch in front of the nocks.
On future builds you can adjust taper rate and wedge length to achieve the same or similar results.
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I just put the calipers on the tips they are .338 at the knocks and it takes whole lot of pressure to get them to even budge a little, pretty much 10 in. leavers so I think I will start at 10 in. & pencil scribe the sides take them down slow with sanding sticks & check for bend on the tree as I go ,should only take a pot a coffee & about 5 hrs...lol then I will smooth in from the mids and hope I lose little weight, it surprises me how much mass you can lose with glass for so little material removed
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I’d go with a six pack and make a day of it :biglaugh:
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Coffee :coffee: ?
No wonder your bow is giving ya fits....
:laughing:
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Nope I have to stay at the ready for any emergency decorating or swift runs to Hobby Lobby :banghead:
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Sounds like fall keeps you busy with more than hunting. But judging from that bow I'm glad to see that at least your not a Bears fan!
Go Pack Go!
-Tim Y
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What's the G stand for?
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I can not confirm or denie your allegation , but I spend a lot of time off of Beacher St. In Milwaukee & I know there preference :laughing:
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Roy..."G" is for Green, Gold and God=(Aaron Rogers).
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Not much time for bow work this week end but did sum ruff sketching on on handle belly overlays going to ruff it out and shoot it in mark and carve as I shoot doing more of a 1911 type handle & got my camo action wood for the 68 R/D doing a simple hunting riser none footed ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Aaron Rogers ?
Never heard of him.
He a bowyer?
Looking good, Ritchie.
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Lookin good Ritchie.
But what is a "1911 type handle"? What does that mean?
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Just a slang for a grip similar to a 1911 pistol !
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Oh ya, I should have known that. It's a pretty popular pistol.
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What caliber is this bow gonna be??? :goldtooth:
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Guessing my Montec 100 grains are 1250 caiber :goldtooth:
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That'll do it... :)
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That looks sturdy.
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This will be the first year using these but I like them because I also got the practice heads for shooting and tuning with out messing up your broad heads there built like little tanks !
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Just read through these post. Waiting to see the performance report! Looking good. How long are the tip wedges Ritchie?
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That's an awesome broadhead..
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You use those on your tri lams Roy?
I always assumed the 3 blades would increase the resistance too much.
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No I use 2 blades.
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Thanks fellas, Ben if I remember right I think those wedge portion of the supper lam is around 8 in. I will measure it when I get back in town , things are going slow on finishing this one between end of season work and getting ready for hunting but I will test it as soon as I can ,I will adjust the arrow weight for a good comparason with the lighter draw weight but Im pretty anxious to get this one shooting !
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Ben the best I can tell the wedge in the supper lam is between 7-8 in. maybe if I get time I will measure the one I have for the 68 in. Its hard to measure after glue up I got some time to get the belly overlays cut and flash light fit to the bow maybe get it more tweake and glued up tomorrow ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Got ahead of the curve this week end glued up before the sun even comes up...lol one thing I like about Kennys design is the handle overlay is non structural so you can do what ever you want !
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Needs more green in it :bigsmyl:
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Lol Mike this is the first bow I ever made with colored wood in in it I usually make rustic hunting bows but when I get it finished & Pre cat lacqure on it will really pop green !
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I like the colors myself. Not for everyone though.
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I do a lot of my bow work 2 & 5 am before Roy isn't even thinking about solbering up 😃 so I use a lot of hand tools not to wake the family so heres some pics of a arrow rest & sight window ruffed in with out power tools !
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Tools used
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Ok initial test keep in mind the tips are at 3/4 wide still & Im only using the tiller string so as of now Im at 46 lb @31 Im using a 433 grain arrow & 575 grain arrow also had to go to a higher brace 8 7/8 like a recurve to keep from slapping the tips , man I hate to say this but this thing is smoother from first impretions then the 64 R/D it just doesent change from brace to full draw shock free and piles arrows right on top of each other so with 575 grain Im averaging 184fps & 433 200 fps finger release I think there is at least 7-9 fps left after tips are narrowed and tuned ! The boss rolled out of bed so back to house work...lol
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The one thing I noticed about the longer brace height is you can shoot a varity of arrows that are not the right spine and the come off with good flight I suspect Im losing FPS because of the height but with the target bow quality of this longer bow its nice and its much more stable shooting bow at my draw then the 60 in. Im going to split the difference and try a 62 in. There always trade offs with different designs & lengths I find !
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That's pretty quick, Ritchie.
:thumbsup:
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Im happy with it still fine tuning it but I have to corect above I forgot I drop the the head weight on those heaver arrows from 125 heads to 100 grain so the heavier arrowbis 575 grain !
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Very Nice Ritchie! I knew my questions would spark you to get back in the shop, but didn't realize you wouldn't be able to sleep lol....That's some good numbers even with the lighter arrow.
This thread has opened my eyes to forward handle designs.
I personally like the colors. Not something you see everyday.
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Thanks for the kick in the pants there Ben I needed it :bigsmyl: I was a little surprised at the light arrow speed myself with the longer limbs it has good performance for heavy or light arrows I need to work up a 10 gpp arrow , I'm fascinated with the FHLB design really ideal for guys like you and me with longer draws in a compact design with out the down side of most short bows , stack Ect I'm doing a 62 in. with stable core next up I think it will be ideal but just a guess only one way to find out !
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Those are some pretty impressive speeds Ritchie. I’m curious how it does with a 10gpp arrow @28”. It’s great that it is smooth out to your 31” draw. But I suspect that large wingspan is also contributing to the speed.
Just curious how it would perform for us guys with a “normal” wingspan.
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I was going to make that same comment, you want a bow to go faster pull it farther but there is a lot more to that comment then meets the eye in my opinion it is a topic hard to cover in one post but I originaly modified the design for my draw to shoot heavy hunting arrows & be durable, it works for that but to be honest I thought there would be a little more speed and I think its there but not willing to risk it on this one with out stable core but regardless of draw there is a couple things the bow is telegraphing it is totaly dead in the hand after the 575 grain arrow leaves the bow telling me its efficent(all my opinion) but having said that I think the bow is still over built mass wise & as a good example of that the width on my 60 in. is a hair over 1 1/4 in. and very stable , I said that to say this if I had a standard draw I would be exspermenting with a 58in bow , but like my friend says only one way to find out 😃 Interesting comment Brad we dont talk design around here much ! All the above is just my thoughts !
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Oops ! Got my tips sanded groves smoothed out gave it a pull and here is the result...lol more then likely from the best I can tell the pegs breaking during cure got me ,oh well the lesson learned is dont make fancy risers on exsperments & use metal pegs 🤧 But started designing the riser for the 62in. , using stable kore on this one ,but glad I got some chrono numbers before the 64in let lose ! Might grind the riser out of the bow at a later date ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Man that sucks.... Sorry Ritchie. It was a shooter.
So your pegs for rubber bands broke during glue up?
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That's a sickening feeling when that happens.
Sorry Ritchie.
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No problem Ben,Roy it really doesn't bother me much any more when one fails had enough practice at it....lol but the wood pegs on the topless fire house form broke while it was baking and didn't notice right away before I rewrapped the area , I thought it would be ok but guess not ! at least that's my best guess.
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Sorry to hear that Ritchie.
I’m a little confused by the pics. I can see the separation in the last pic. But what am I looking at in the first two pics? Is that the limb completely separated? Or is there something else on the trash can with the bow?
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Oh wait I think I get it now...... the glass split down the middle.
I couldn’t figure out how there was glass on the bow and hanging out the side. Lol.
Damn little phone screens.
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I should of unstrung the bow before the pic but you got the jest !
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Hey I know the feeling. Yeah some 3/8 steel pegs should do the trick.
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I know you do Mike , but Im under steam on the next ,never fun breaking one but part of the game ! We call fun :knothead:
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I should of unstrung the bow before the pic but you got the jest !
Heck I thought all gwass bows looked like that..
:laughing:
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The 64 in. is in the rear view mirror for now got the 62 in. riser ruffed out will do the final when I get the lams jointed I really like this camo action wood its a breeze to work !
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Here is a pic of the stable kore ,I never saw it before kinda cool
stuff if you run your fingers down it , it makes like a musical notes nice weave pateren ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Might look cool under clear glass!!
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For sure I think Crooketstic did one like that ,he said it looked like carbon, I think some of the German bowyers do it to.
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I just happen to have an overstock of .030 clear ul .... lol
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Trouble maker :biglaugh:
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:thumbsup: :)
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I got another package from that trouble maker above got some more stabil-kore , clear glass & a black and gray action wood riser blank, I really like it thinner and tighter lams in it then the camo or yellow should show the swirly grain when carved nice this is for another 64 '' after the 62'' FHLB
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:biglaugh:
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Now that's a bow Rev!! Ain't blowed up yet!! :biglaugh:
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LOL
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Pulled off some time to metallize the pegs on the topless form drilled out the centers on the wood dowels made a neat bushing for the round thread stock !
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That form looks good. Let us know if you like it better tha one with a top.
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I will let you know Mike I probably would be hunting with a green bow had I used metal in the first place...lol the reason I went this route topless is I want to experiment with different riser designs !
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The other nice thing about this FH is I don't have to change band saw blades ,I just leave my 1/2 blade on all the time when making these you can make and grind a standard riser in under 1 hr. My Aggazini 23 '' is a pain to change blades all the time on ,I love the saw but modified the old school roller guides so I could dead center the blade on the wheels , I never had a band saw that runs as true as this one but work to change blades ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Got my form rebuilt & jointed my lams for the 62 FHLB , flash light fit the riser with lams in place just need to cut my stabil-kore & and do a dry run with the hose and steel pegs hopefully got the bugs out ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Cut a firehose in half and stitch 2" nylon cordura straps with loops on the ends to marry with the rods....Quicker to put on a Bra than lace up a corset...
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Got to give the modified form a dry run ,I'm adapting as I go I added more holes for zip ties to make sure it's dead lined up in the curves added plastic tubing around the threads it feels rock solid now the pegs are no where near bending at 70lb, sense I'm using metal presure strips ,I'm leaving Big Bobs 2 zip tie system on threw out the glue up ! Did it last time with no issue also used heavy electrical tape to keep the hose centered while wrapping worked great !
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Looks like the rods held up real well. I'm going to be doing mine that way in the future. Is the plastic tube the clear flexible stuff from the hardware store?
I have a suggestion but it's not based on any particular knowledge but rather just speculation. When your hose is inflated it has a round profile. That has me thinking that it may apply more pressure in the center of the stack then on the edges? Also if it's allowed to expand too much it may fill up and be unable to apply full pressure. in other words it's not a balloon that can expand almost Limitlessly. it has a max expansion.
On my last one I was able to keep a somewhat flatter profile even on a one and three quarter inch wide form. I got it that way simply by pulling the Paracord down very tight with the form clamped down tight to a work table.
I'm probably going all Chicken Little on you but thought it worthwhile to throw that out there.
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Those are some interesting thoughts but when I remove the hose you can see the imprint of the whole limb on the hose, I think it gets total limb coverage but really dont know what is hapening on the form but it sure seems like good solid pressure ! Im hunting all next week end so wont get a chance for 2 weeks to glue up , the tubing is clear plastic 3/8
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May make a limb like an acs, gain FPS too!! LOL
Got any of the curved digital calipers to check edge and center on limb when done? :o
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Yep I do have those calipers but with the metal presure strip the forces might be pretty even I have rubber strips I use for bamboo I could use in the mix or I could use a thicker presure strip the curent one is .030 , or I could just go as is 🤔
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Just funning you man!! I have noticed tho even with a pressure strip and the hose flattened more, the edges seem thicker than the center....
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Now you have me curious Im going to measure the good limb on the other bow , after the last I dont want to leave any stone unturned 😐 In hind sight it would have been easer making the topped form but would have to skip all this fun :laugh:
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I ran some Hillbilly tests with the metal strips to see if it was getting even presure , seems like it is, Im using the 2 in. fire hose with 1 1/2 in. wide limbs it puts a flat imprint on the hose of the limb width,I measured the last bow with the out side calipers seems to be consistent center to edges , Im going to drill 2 more holes in the riser area to secure the riser a little better sense I lose sight of the center marks so im going as is with test bow 2 ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Test bow II , wait til you get to like test bow VI :laughing:
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Well hope I dont go there but did learn Rule #1 dont make fancy risers for test bows!!!! :goldtooth:
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64 in. Test bow 2 ,carbon/glass/maple glued up on the modified form , with the metal pegs every thing went good so far ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Looks good! Did you clean all of the lams with heavy duty degreaser? :laughing:
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SOS pads & hot water :laughing: that pure acetone worked great on glass & carbon ,I just wisked up the wood lams with a fresh 320 grit sanding sponge and dusted off with a stiff brush my shop vac died and if I take the house Dyson to the shop I would be sleeping out here 😃 I probably used to much Smooth on but aired up in increments scared of another delam !
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I poped the carbon wonder out of the form every thing looks great so far the form with metalized pegs really works well, got really tight good looking joints so far, I did use more smooth on as insurance compared to the last couple so have a little more clean up with more squeeze out ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Man that looks really good! Going to have some string tension!
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Nice, Ritchie..
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Thanks guys I think this one might have a little more string tension then I was looking for, will see I might have to get the weights out and start working out....lol
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You can always send it to Roy... :bigsmyl:
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:laughing: :laughing:
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Im really licking this green glass & the camo action wood !
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Better watch lickin it, both have splinters on em!! :laughing:
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Ya beat me to it, Kenny. :biglaugh:
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Been up sense 2:00 am working on this one just got it to brace Im 1/4 positive on one limb going to start hand tillering it tomorrow get every thing even then get it as narrow as I can get away with, Im guessing Im 58-60 lb now but the early weight on this one is much more then the last ,Im going to try to get this one as close to 1 1/4 width but doing it by hand with sanding sticks its going to take a while no string and play with this one...lol [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] PS the flavor of green glass sucks :goldtooth:
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The left limb looks normal. The right one looks to have a hump about mid limb??
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Mike Here is a pic of the other 64 in. With the 64 in. I had to increase the brace to 8 1/2 to keep the string from slapping the limbs Im figuring if I lighten the limb on the current one it probably will take the same brace look ? [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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I hope you are right. That one have the super lam? Almost like one side may have gotten reversed.
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Yes it has the supper lam I don't think I reversed it I matched the end marks that Kenny put on ,the first 64 in. One limb was stiffer to but not as exstream the stiff limb is a tad wider not much though, I will clean every thing up tomorrow , I'm wondering to ,there is about 1/4 in. difference right out of the fades I will start fresh in the morning and see ! I'm going to mark out about every 6 in. Or so on the limbs tomorrow and make sure the front view profile is exactly the same !
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I just put the calipers on the thickness out of the fades and at the knocks every thing is the same Mike !
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Is it morning already Ritchie :laughing:
It does look a little wonky, but I’ll bet you have a wide spot in a limb. Did that on the bow I built my son. Threw the braced bow all outa whack.
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Thats good if everything measures good. Probably is a wide spot then.
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Now it's morning Brad 3:00 am...lol I meant the 1/4 brace different but as soon as I get to the shop I will measure width, its changes might be a little more exstream with carbon don't know never used it before ? I'm just going to use sanding stick & brace it every pass see if I can get it around also need to lose another 1/8 in width when straitened out going for at least a tad under 1 3/8
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Cleaned it up and it came around , this bow with carbon in the limbs is harder to tiller kinda sensitive to tiller but thats good should be able to get it to a weight I can handle its setting at 1/8 positive Im going to narrow it down and see where Im at but want to get it on the tree see where Im at weight first
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It does look a lot better. Did you reduce the stack for the carbon and still came out heavy?
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Looks much better, Ritchie..
:thumbsup:
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Yea with the more reflex its more sensitive to ,weight it 63 lb at my draw could pull that in my 40s but not my 60s ...lol ,Im scribing the limbs with pencil and taking the width down by hand sanding if I can get it to 55-56 I could handle it well see ! I did reduce the stack & it did come out heavy by 10 lb this thing has scary to brace early draw weight much more then the glass cousin !
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Ok here is a new one I took the limb width down by 1/8 in. didnt lose any weight and if you look in the pic it is more hollow in the middle similar to what the composite horn bowyers call poisin effect from not using a lenticular shaped core or the topless form is putting more presure in the middle like we discussed before any ideas ?? The limbs are at 1 3/8 out of the fades the braced profile is the same ?
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Im guessing my only solution is trapping but I have never done it on a glass bow it would kill 2 birds with one stone I need to lose weight any how ?
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What did you use for pressure strip?
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.030 metal one I'm ether going to have to go thicker or build a top for the form I'm thinking I can save this bow but not doing another as is , but I'm going to post a thread on trapping never did it on glass, wood yes,maybe some body can talk me threw it !
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The last bow I built came in heavy also.
I ended up trapping the glass on belly side and glass plus one taper on the back.
I used a file and was careful to keep it at a 45degree angle. Then I just filed to the desired glue line. Then finished with a couple quick passes with a small sanding block. Managed to drop 4-5lbs.
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Thanks Brad Im going to scribe a line 1/16 each side in on the the back and trap from there and see how much weight I lose !
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I apoligise for the crap pics & with the shop lights makes it look like the right limb bends more but it's not, I narrowed the limbs to 1 5/16 & double trapped the limbs really only a minor trap ,but did manage to get this to 60 lb at my draw I was surprised I got it to anchor but did , this is the hardest bow I have ever had to get to lose weight the cupping in the limbs is only minor now with it less width & hopping it adds some speed ,I'm 1/8 positive tiller with the left being the bottom the last pic is full draw @31 in. 60.2 lb I'm hopping I can lose another pound at final sand but stoping here it seems stable and the string tracts dead center & no twist !
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Got my belly overlay made & glued up Im trying to get my hand as close to the belly as I can ,I can barely get this 60 lb bow to full draw ,I dont want to pull it any farther then needed...lol ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Thats easy for me to do.
(https://i.imgur.com/7MayLM6.jpg)
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I thought about doing it like yours but with this one I left a lot of meat on the bone but I'm going to carve & blend it in not much more then yours in the end ,I kinda carve as I shoot a bow tell I get it like I like it I did that on my D/R 64 hunting bow and it feels like a part of me every time I draw it.
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So what do you think made your limbs cupped? is it consistent all the way thru? I know a dog bone shape for the air hose with a topped form is ideal. How much pressure did you use?
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I think to thin of pressure strip for the topless form ,I'm going to find a thicker one ,yes it's consistent because I centered the hose but when I narrowed the limbs down to 1 5/16 it's barley cupped now but it sure made the limbs stiff I had a heck of a time getting the bow to lose weight did a minor trap into the first lam both back & belly and narrowed the limbs and only lost about 3 1/2 lb. I think I could go to 1 1/4 in. width that uni carbon really stabilized the limbs but to chicken ,I will see how it effects speed here soon ,after I lift some more weights to get strong enough to get this beast back to full draw more then a half dozen times :bigsmyl: I used 70 psi !
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I think !/1/4 would be fine. But that will not do any good if it only goes to where the taper starts on each end. If the cup is consistent maybe flat blocking the limb width to remove more of the cup. Have to do the same on both ends.
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Im not sure what you mean by flat blocking ? Unless you mean sanding the glass edges tell the limb is flat ? Im more inclined to leave well enough alone and start another maybe a 62 in. but I want to see if this uni carbon is any faster in the core first, Im thinking 48 lb but 1 1/4 width with the less reflex & shorter limbs it would for sure take the 1 1/4, wide Its all speculation but I think the 62 in is going to be the winner at my draw also want to try another 60'' but with carbon to compare but the wife has me back to making cabinets for the winter so bow making is going to be getting slow for a while !
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This is what Im doing as far as getting my hand close to the belly & give me some support its starting to feel good have to cut in the rest & sight window & blend it !
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Looking good.
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I love this action wood Kenny has, its my current favorite I have the black & grey for the next bow , Im half tempted to ask Santa for a air brush & do the limbs camo ! Here is a pic of the grey & black it has really tight lams it will be easy to hit a lot of different layers carving the riser !
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Got a chance this morning to cut the sight window & rest and put a few arrows threw it , it seems peppy but a tad noiser then the other but having a hard time getting it to full draw but getting there Im going to finish out and shoot for a while so I can get it to full draw & clock it but this one draws real smooth like the others !
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Looking pretty good.
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Got a chance to play with this more seems with the carbon in the limbs I can get away with 8 in. brace as compared to 8 1/2 on the glass one, I'm shooting 9 grain arrows @60lb but suspect I'm only getting the bow to 29 in so probably 10 grain but I'm liking the power of this beast when I do get to full draw, I may end up giving this to my young strong as bull hunting partner he pulls 70 lb on his wheels !
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Profile looking good there Ritchie. I bet it's fast.
And wheelie letoff bows are no comparison to holding full weight at draw. I used to shoot an 80 lb training wheel bow before I switched to traditional. For me a 60 lb traditional bow is harder to pull to full draw than the 80 lb compound.
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Well I'm going to try to work up to it it will give me some incentive I think can shoot it consistent if I can shoot it a couple times a week I can do it ! Pluss I want to know the speed not short drawing !
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Finaly got the wife to take a full draw or semi full draw probably 30 in. the botom pic is glass only for comparison I like the carbon ones full draw profile much better more rounded and to me it looks like its making the inners work harder what do you guys think ? [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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I got a chance to do some more testing sense the 31 in. draw tests are irevelent to most ,I decided to use my hill billy shooting machine ,I taped the arrow at 28 in. and tried to draw to that point every time ,the closet arrow I have is 10 1/4 gpp but its realy hard to be exact so these numbers are ruff but 53 lb @28. ,550 grain Average FPS 183fps , not as good as I was hoping but still some weight to lose in the tips !
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I spent about 3 hrs today scribing pencil marks and retillering this bow I got it down to just hair under 58 lb. and I got the limbs just a hair above 1 1/4 width the bow defently picked up steam , the tips still have a lot to lose yet if I can get to 57 lb at final sand I will be happy , I can get this weight to FD. [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Looks like it will draw about 6" more before stacking! :biglaugh:
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At least 6 more but just a hair over 1 1/4 width woosh I was sweating doing it pencil lines hand sand tiller tree over & over & over...lol but picked up another 4 fps actually more but thats what Im posting at...lol if this bow stacked there is no way I could get 58 lb to full draw ,Kenny this thing Rocks thanks for the design its dead in the hand and accurate !!
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I havent been doing much on this bow hunting season and all but got a chance to glue up the back over lay & carve more on the riser & tiller the limbs a little more narrowed more & more trapping got the weight down to 57 3/8 lb but was able to limber them up enough to drop the brace height to 7 7/8" the bow has picked up a fair amount of speed getting the mass off , I wasn't
going to post chrony numbers due to my long draw but I will & every body can figure from there, I only make hunting bows for real world application for my self, but I can hat trick the chrony at 57 3/8 lb @30 1/2 550 grain 201 fps the tips are still wide probably pick up another few fps there and a few with a lighter string !
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Got the tip overlays ruffed in and started narrowing the tips the outers are just starting to open up a little bit more , got my brace height down now to 7 1/2" with out tip contact going to shoot it more & clock it tomorrow this bow really likes the 2613 arrow with the tiller string Im not doing final tweaks tell I get the 10 strand FF plus string that Im hoping will give me another 4 fps and maybe drop brace height more this bow has a lot of little quirks to work out but getting there love hearing the arrow rip into the back stop on this one ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Great chrony results! Nice bow too
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Thanks Bob I have a long draw so I wouldn't be to impressed with my numbers...lol , I'm working on it's little brother this morning a 60" same recipe more or less, I think will be a little more peppy , good to here from you Bob, I still,have the 68" D/R in the Que at some point this next year we discussed a while back , just work and family keep getting in the way... :archer2:
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All good mate, had a few personal issues to deal with. Liking what I see so far with this bow.
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Did some more testing now that I droped the brace height thined the uppers Im using a 9.6 gpp thats all I have that will spine 57.3lb @ 30 1/2 I couldnt hat trick the same speed like last week, Im not as consistent release to much coffee..lol but posted in the pics 3 shot average !
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I ran some more light arrow tests granted there not the right spine but tried 450 grain and didnt pick up as much speed as I thought the 64" limbs like heavy hunting arrows better with the slower return with the longer limbs Im assuming ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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I'm wrapping this one up I'm going to shoot it for a month or so before final tweaking and putting the finish on and move on full time to the 60" Carbon , Just a couple notes on this bow ,I'm contributing a lot of the performance & getting a lower brace height to the ACS type limbs, if you look at the limb pic a few pics up you can clearly see the concave limbs in conjunction with the carbon got me extra FPS & a lower brace height and more narrow limbs ,but due to the concave limbs it was a real lesson in tillering and getting it to lose weight & didn't help with figuring carbon in the stack but after the 60" is done as a standard bow I will have more stack info !
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I tried Kennys recomendation of painting the dark camo wood to see the the pencil lines it worked great in fact gave me a idea ,Im leaving it and taking a white marker and marking the centers of the lams and putting a black center mark as to see the centers easy threw the plastic at glue up , this bow is going to be another 60" FHLB the stack is .271 with glass that should give me 40lb @ 30 1/2 " and .020 of gordons uni carbon in the stack, Im hopping 46-48 lb. I know there is a lot of guests and friends of mine watching this thread but if you guys want to make a bow ,I would recomend joining the forum & ask some questions a lot of good guys here & probably get more answers then you want :laughing:
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Got my riser ruff profiled this morning , for those of us that don't have a templet sander good templets help to get a great fit on the form and lams its taken me three risers to get it where I want ,I do the the final fitting & thining by hand with sanding sticks with the riser clamped to the lams on and off, I personaly think a perfect fit on the riser & fades is a must on this design it puts a lot of presure on the lower limb , fade/riser area ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Just got to mess with you bit :laughing:
(https://i.imgur.com/r8mTbWz.jpg)
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Mike, I may have already seen this but what you have on your sander? A rub collar or bearing?
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Mine has a bearing and guide wheel. If I would do it now I would go with a plate and rub collar or a pin. I had my drum turned flat except for an inch on each end then build your jigs tall enough to be on the flat part.A must is the table got to be square to the drum. Table and pin gonna be less $$$ to.
(https://i.imgur.com/K6pNXkt.jpg?1)
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I have one of those gizmo guided sanding drum for the drill press and I double taped the riser blank to the templet that I did the D/R riser for ,but didn't really like it , now I got my templet dialed in I can cut & grind & hand finalize the riser by hand in about 1 hr 45 min , I plan on trying some different riser styles this up coming year , with the topples form & doing it by hand I have a lot of flexability as far as design goes but a templet sander would be nice !
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Never found a robo sander I liked.
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Yep thats it robo sander I never relly gave it a honest chance I just thought it was slow and less dust collection & slower then bouncing between my oscillating spindle & belt sander ,I also tape some 80 grit paper to my form and shimmy it back and fourth on the form for a snug fit its taking me a few risers to get every thing dialed in but actually enjoy the processe now then I hand sand the fades with sanding sticks and backer it gives me nice smooth tight fit !
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Got a chance to work on test bow 3 this morning , this one Im chasing the riser fit more then the others but here is a trick I picked up on on test bow 1 some times this radius fit can be touchy one side effects the other for snugness and the riser wanted to go to 1/16 positive on one limb so instead of fighting it I let it follow the natural center of 1/16 positive it makes things easeier for a butt tight fit, it can be adjusted with the knocks distance ,I usually make my bows 1/8 positive any way & during glue up its going to seek that center any way with the slippery epoxy ! Should get to a dry run test soon with the new thicker presure strip !
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that was a problem I had also plus that hump is a pain to get perfect fit so I redone the form with belly down and let the air hose conform to the hump.
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That would be easier , I still can't figure it out why this one fought me harder I got it straitened out but the only thing different is this action wood has a lot more tight lams it it's glue up & I'm using a thiner stack then the templates was made for ether that or I was off my game today...lol
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60" carbon glued up and in the oven !
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You drink that many shots you gonna not care. :laughing:
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When I sober up I will see how it turns out :pray:
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Your form with straps, looks like a Medieval torture device :scared:
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Well Flem I dont know about that ,I see it as a 21st century torture device sence its taking me 3 test bows to get it dialed in...lol Im happy how this one turned out flaw less joints all around If any body has any questions about these forms I have a whole list of what doesent work...Ha!Ha! And as in the pics ,those micro light threw the riser view durning fitting are moot when glued up also learned a lot about working with carbon to , I got every thing organised now I think I could build one of these in a day now, I might try it , but this shorty feels strange to me being lighter weight mass wise ,just because I have been making thicker long ones ! I also modified the stack order on this one it only has 3 wood lams in it !
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What riser wood? looks good form here.
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That's the black and grey camo wood the lams in it are real tight and many ,kinda looking forward to carving it & Im using black glass !
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Got a chance to get the tape off the bow & inspect the limbs today they are flat now with the changes made in the form , I will post the form update on the form thread if any body's interested.
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I have been trying for weeks to get this bow profiled and strung caught a break today the pics are full draw opposite limb up & down going to bring the one limb a little more around ended up at 52 lb @ 30 1/2 so I got my 60" stack dialed in for .020 gordons carbon at my draw ,Im going to figure 10 lb this one should end up at the same weight as the other 60" so will be good to compare the all glass to the glass/carbon one !
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Looks good. Those FHLBs handle the long draws quite well. Been using mine for indoor 3D season this year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yep fun to shoot fun to make if you have a long draw the 64 " is a real tack driver for 3D , I think I'm going to bring the stack up some and try a 62" at some point this year ,I feel good the swag worked out got lucky by the time I narrow & sand should come out dead on target !
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Got a chance this after noon to round out the tiller a bit more feels good on drawing did the flip flop full draw , Im going to wait tell the belly over lays are on tell final tiller hoping to get the overlays on tomorrow weather willing this bow amazes me being drawn to 31" and maintains that string angle !
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Looking good Ritchie :thumbsup:
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That looks pretty sweet! Bet it's fun to shoot. :thumbsup:
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Thanks guys I'm hopping to get this one shooting soon the other 60" is a fun bow to shoot I don't think I put it down tell I had 3-400 arrows threw it but there all fun I'm going to do a 62" carbon at some point this year I really like the shooting charechter of the carbon hard to put into words but the bow is just dead after the arrows gone !
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Started fitting up my belly over lays should have this one shooting by next week end if work doesent get in the way ,seriously thought about doing a shaped cork & split cane handle on this one but decided on carved action wood !
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Got the belly overlay glued up yesterday hopefully get this one shooting today after work or tomorrow !
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We need a shooting report !! :thumbsup:
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As soon as it stops snowing for a day :bigsmyl:
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The green tape is nice :laughing:
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Thats my version of that new green deal :laughing:
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Got a chance to work the 60" down a bit Im 49.5 lb @31 I took this one 1/16 past center figured Im ok with carbon in the limb I love this bow so far it has the same feel as the other carbon bow I got about 100 arrows threw it today this one is defently hunting this year I shot it threw the chrony at my draw of 31" and Im hat tricking 199 fps 10gpp with the 603 grain arrow Im averaging 187fps still have to narrow the tips & limbs yet , I will post the 28" numbers when I can get to a shooting machine , but Im sold on this bow in carbon Im going to make a 60" at 40 & 45 lb at some point, I pulled a 2 yr aged Oliva out to celebrate & keep the wife out of the shop so I can enjoy shooting my bow the rest of the day :laughing: this bow is weighting in at 21.6 oz so far
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Wo..
199 is good Ritchie...
Or is that a 2 arrow total tally?
:laughing: :wavey:
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M R good numbers I think WTT they used a 6.5 brace and 9strand string on a shooting machine @ 28. If you are ringing the 200 fps @ 28 bell you got a keeper. I think the hot rods then 201 was the best and that was 6 in. brace and 6 strands. Not something you would trust for everyday shooting.
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Thats a handsome bow you made there. Looking forward to seeing with some finish on it.
I was thinking Oliva was your granddaughter till I saw that Cuban incense stick :coffee:
Can I come hang out in your shop if I bring the Port?
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Thanks guys sure Flem come on by I think I have 1300 or so sticks to chose from Im not much of a port drinker mosty exspreso :goldtooth: but swing by ,Im not really into any contest just want to know what my hunting bows do at my draw but Im sure liking how this little guy is shooting this one is quite like the other to ,going 1/16 past center I havent found a arrow out of mine that this bow doesnt shoot ok yet never made one past center before !
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199! pretty impressive! can't wait to see it finished...lookin good :clapper:
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Nice bow and very good numbers, so do not open that lid. ;)
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Thanks all but keep in mind these numbers are at 31" draw but I think when I get the limbs narrowed up and a proper string Im running a 16 strand D97 string on it now Im planing a 10 srand FF plus for it I think it will make 200fps or better this bow loves these 538 grain 2613s log of a arrow [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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As a testimony to the strength of this FH riser after some more sanding Im at 3/16 past center with the riser only 1 1/4 " thick in some areas but really like the way its shooting being more center still need to carve the riser more like the last one ,I dont know if I would go that far past center with all glass but with the carbon in there adds a lot of strength ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Got the riser carved down a bit more the overlay lined up well Im keeping track of the weight so I can weigh it against the all glass brother of this one 20.16 oz now I really like this grey bark pattern the pics dont do it justice it will pop well when I get the finish on when done I think Im going for grey bark riser back overlay & tips !
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Got a chance to clean up the riser & overlays a little bit more with the shop lighting the pics look more brown but the true color is grey I shot about another 50!arrows today , this is my new favorite it shoots dead where I look its as accurate as my 64 " DR just very user friendly , Im going to shoot it for a couple weeks and keep custom carving the riser to my hand then final sand and finish !
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Looks nice Ritchie.
Sounds like ya got a winner.
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Thanks Brad Im enjoying this one just trying to figure out what makes this more right then the others so I can do the same :)
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Look awesome!...did the FPS stay close to your original test?
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Thanks every thing should be the same at this point I'm doing this one slightly different then the others I'm doing a double taper front view instead of narrowing the whole limb some times you have to stop when you get a bow shooting this good I don't want to risk changing it...lol but between lighting the tips & using a 10 strand string as opposed to the 16 strand on there now I'm going to Swag probably should gain at least another 8 fps at my 31" draw
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I took some pics against a white back ground , this is more the true color after more carving this bows mass weight is only 19.29 OZ
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Heck of a bow Mr Forwardhandle. I like the dark color look. And the performance is pretty nice too.. :clapper:
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Super Schnazzy!...makin me wanna get another bow goin STAT!
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Your bow looks like a continuous wave of wood. Those 2613s are pretty.
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J at lest I motivated some one the guys that wanted me to start the thread for lost interest & went back to there wheelies, Ben after seeing your latest form it won't be long before your on this side of the tracks, I promise I won't tell Roy :laughing:
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Dean I have been shooting those 2613s for 25 yrs in one bow or another there like shooting logs but a great arrow the target guys caught on and they have gone up in price and harder to get but they shoot good at my long draw !
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Dont worry about Roy he is in therapy and cant thump nobody right now. :bigsmyl: :laughing:
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You should squirt a sealer coat on that thing, cause I think we all want to see it pop :bigsmyl:
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Well as soon as it gets warm enough to open the shop door I will put a coat of vinyl sealer on both of them I got the handle pretty much where its going to be maybe a few minor changes sense its going to be a blind and stand bow I keep shooting it setting and standing then mark the spots I dont like and recarve usauly takes 350-400 arrows to get right !
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Ritchie, that's a good system to get the grip right. I might run out of riser tho…. LOL
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Lol I guess the trick is knowing when to stop :cheesy:
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LOL
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Well I wasn't going to make another bow for a while but some times I just wake up with the bow half made in my mind...lol so figured I will do one more on this thread and call it a day , but this one is going to be one of Kenny's 2nd Gen D/R bows 64" @31 46-51 lb test swag...lol it will be wood/carbon/glass I figured my stack swag at .335 I was going to make a different riser similar to the FH but sense this one is a test bow I'm going to stick with a standard one peace wood riser in Mozanbique keeping it simple also fine tuning a templet for the robo sander not sure I'm going to use it yet , well post as I go !
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Was doing some mill work for the house and snuck in ruffing out the riser for the D/R & tip overlays for the FH ! I have to cut it short to get ready for work another 3" of snow tonight for ST Pat day , unbelievable :banghead:
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Got a good solid half day for bow work and fun got the tip overlays glued up ruff shaped limbs narrowed took the beard shaver to some velcro pad dots & put them on for a arrow rest shot about 80 arrows & ruff fit the D/R riser to the form & cleaned it up ,later on maybe scive joint the lams for the D/R maybe get this carbon D/R glued up over the week end !
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Sorry Ritchie, I'm too lazy to scroll back, are you using woven carbon under clear glass?
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No Flem I'm using Gordon's uni under green glass , but I did think about using stabile core under clear glass, nothing to fancy on this D/R just trying to dial the stack in for carbon & the D/R ,I have every thing here to do the stable core under clear glass just not enough time to build every bow I want :archer2:
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Be sure to get plenty of glue on the stable core. Myself and another person did it under clear and got some air bubbles. I notice when putting glue on it seems to soak it a bit. May be the weave :dunno:
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Thanks for the tip Mike stable core does look like it could suck up the glue with all the perforations !
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I thought I would mention that any body that is thinking of using Mozanbique wood for a riser the stuff is very tuff on blades even with a new blade the stuff smokes as you cut it ,it's one of the densest wood I have used tough as nails but ruff on blades it smells like a camp fire as you cut it this is the second riser I have made with it !
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Never heard of Mozambique wood. Had to look it up. Goes by quite a few aliases. I'm familiar with Shedua. I'm always amazed at the names they come with for lumber. I was at a local hardwood dealer last week and bought a plank of wood they were calling "Yellow Hercules"! No such thing. Looks like Yellowheart to me.
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Lol I will call it African blade burner but I really like the wood its Beautiful and a solid wood I will just put on a dull blade for future use or maybe try a 3/8 blade I keep a 1/2 blade on all the time now just is a good compromise for me !
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I got a little more time on the D/R test bow but Im really chasing with the fit the block was a little shy on thickness so I couldnt get the completé radius on it when I cut it so its been a lot of work getting it fit up still chasing the fit but getting closer I see a templete sander in my future 😃
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Doing a dry run every thing looks really good took a lot of hand work but got the riser zero light !
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Looking good
Nice lathe in the back
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I really like the DVR I made a out rigger for it so I could turn table tops like the rock maple one in the pic if I didnt make bows I would spend my time turning vesels !
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Got it in the tent oven !
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Is that a stainless oven?
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That's a good will oven cost me $10 goes to 190 Deg with optional $9 harbor freight lamps :cheesy:
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I like it. :thumbsup:
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Lonnie its actually 2 plys of electric blankets one of them has dual temp controls thats great for fine tunning temp the only down side its slow getting up to temp hence the optional clip on shop lights its a Hill billy/Red neck Hybrid 😃
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I never imagined electric blankets got that hot
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Brad when you double them over they get pretty warm if you get a good air seal they will push 130 Deg if you boost it with 2 , 100 watt bulbs it will go 190 Deg it's not a plug and play system ,I check it every 1:30 HR and adjust as needed but works for those of us with limited space !
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That is awesome :thumbsup:.
Low tech and effective. :notworthy:
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Pop it out and cleaned it up every thing looks great but I think Im going to be heavy from my SWAG but not much ,Im thinking maybe go 66" on this one !
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Looks huge on the car!
That ABB riser looks nice :thumbsup:
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Those lams are full length that's 72" I left it that way in case I needed to go longer , I think what I neglected in my stack swag was that I'm using the super lam ,AKA (supper lamb) :laughing: that made the working limb shorter hence higher weight, I'm playing it by ear maybe start 68" and can always pike it well see I will play tomorrow in between coats on dry wall (Honey Do) !
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Looks good so far.
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Well they say God works in mysteries ways and he does thats why I always thank him for every bow I make good or bad ! But I have come 360 deg now this bow is exactly the bow I started the thread for the one Big Bob 2 was helping me with but here is the stats 68" ntn 53lb @31 its smooth as a babys butt to draw I really like the profile with the SL in the mix need to smooth out the tiller & get it shooting but very happy so far !
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Pretty slick. It looks like you could draw that out to about 36"-38" but you may have to whittle down a broom handle for arrows.
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I'm just glad I left it long other wise I would of had 60lb plus bow !
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Not much time for bow work lately but hope to get this one finished over the next couple weeks so I can move on to other style bows ,got the handle overlay glued on today , making the handle similar to the 64" D/R I did before !
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Nice....
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Got rained out on the job got a chance to work a bit on the 68" D/R got the sight window & the riser ruffed out got a chance to shoot about 40 arrows between rain drops shot 700 grain & 730 grain arrows to test it the bow shoots very, very smooth & acurate and is a quite bow , It has the same carbon feel of the others , I need to narrow up the limbs and finish carving the handle and mill up some over lays then I will clock it with the same 16 strand string as the others, currently have a 10 strand FF plus on the bow its wisper quite with that string on !
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Moved this post to what did you do today'
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:cheesy:
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I didn’t troll back thru to see if you mentioned.....what wood is that riser?
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Man! that looks sharp Ritchie. The African Blade Burner is going to look awesome with finish on it.
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Brad thats Mozambique as Flem alluded to its dense wood Im going to finish it with vinyl sealer & pre cat lacquer, still need to lose a lot of weight on the riser should make it look pretty sexy when done now I just need another rain day :laugh:
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Just a couple final thoughts on this bow before I close out the thread unless any body has any questions , but by far the 68" D/R is the smoothest & most accurate out of all the bows built in this thread it's just a amazing target/3D/hunting bow my over all thoughts on all these designs is the FHLB is the perfect blind hunting bow & the D/R is the perfect Stand hunting bow ,I'm going to go on and exsperment with different FF strings with all these bows ,Thanks for every body's input & help especially to Kenny for his patient Help :cheesy: any body who is new to the bow making game the D/R is probably a good choice for a first bow , Kenny has the build a long on his site and it's a strait forward build !!!
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You can't close the thread until we see that Bow with some finish on it :thumbsup:
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Lol I will come back & post pics when Im done also numbers on the 68" :biglaugh:
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Well Flem no finish yet but got the overlays on & ruffed in man I really really like this bow its very forgiving Im going to shoot and carve it will be a bit for finish !
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Got a chance today to carve and shoot this one a bit more & chrono the numbers this bow is my new favorite very versital bow looking forward to taking it to Texas with my brother for a pig hunt it likes both light and heavy arrows Im going to see about working up some Douglas fir arrows for it , out of all the Kenny designs I think the D/R is the most versital hunter !
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586 grain & 507 grain arrows !
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That oughta puncture some pork !!
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Flem, don't even say it...
:nono:
:wavey:
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That just keeps getting better Ritchie! Easy to tell your liking that one, it's a real looker.
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30 in. draw??
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Im going to pork somthing with it 🙄 Mike its pulling about 30 1/2 on this one , carbon in it , Flem Im slowly cleaning it up as I shoot finding little spots that need carving but this 68" is really user friendly I botched a few releases and some how the arrow finds its way to where your aiming, I left a little more heft in the riser on this one seems to help Im at 50lb 30 1/2" might drop another 2 pounds but its shooting so well just might leave it !
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Got the 68" finished today 4 coats vinyl sealer and 6 coats Pre cat lacquer , the iPhone pics don't do it justice it's really a preety combo in person the green glass on the dark wood ,I'm going to give it a coat of ceramic car wax , this vinyl sealer & pre cat lacquer is a tuff finish the car wax was Flems idea I just up graded it to ceramic wax !
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Your not going to get anything else done while your admiring and fondling that beauty!
Nice job for sure :thumbsup:
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Thanks Flem it does have a sweet feel it just kinda goes to the right position as soon as you put presure on the string I'm going to try to give the grey ghost one the same treatment tomorrow also going to order a can of pre cat lacquer sealer I was reading about it not necessary but adds protection and puts the finish on par with convertion varnish !
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Got the grey ghost finished up today did some exspermenting did this one 2 coats of vinyl sealer and 8 coats pre cat lacquer same thing with this one cant get good pics inside but will give you a idea , this bow feels so light after working on the 68" this one weights 19 oz & change mass wise.
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Those both turned out great Ritchie :thumbsup:
Really like the grey one!!!
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Thanks Brad the grey one actualy both look a lot better in person the grey has a real stealthy look those both should hunt this year !
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Nice job on both!!
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Here is some pics of the action wood overlays !
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Very nice!
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Finaly got a chance to get the wife to take some full draw pics both bows are at 1/8 positive tiller and seems like both are perfect limb timing at my draw both are great shooters but I never made a glass 68" bow before but see more in the future its such a docile & forgiving bow I didnt think I would stand hunt with it but definetly going there this up coming season , I know I have said this before but you guys that are thinking about starting building bows the Kenny D/R is a great place to start easy to make and a great shooter !
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Bending good.
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I got the final top coat on these bows this stuff is a bullet proof replenishable ceramic wax Im using it on all my hunting bows you can spray water on it and it just beads up and runs off & if you dont buff it,it stays matt Im getting a 2019 KW semi delivered this week and its getting a coat of this stuff before it hits the road I would highly recomend to guys that hunt !
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Where you get the wax---how much?
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Got it from the big A but it's in most auto parts stores $20 kinda pricy but a little goes a long way that ceramic is tuff as nails wax finish ! I'm not sure if it would make a good form release wax with the ceramic in it !
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This is good form/mold release wax. Good to 275deg. Works good on Bows also.
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Thanks Flem got it on my wish list for later the other thing I like about this ceramic wax is it doesent smell when I used to use furniture wax I had to put it on at least a month before season to lose the cent !
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I got the 64" FHLB retillered down to a more comfterble 54lb & finished it with 4 coats vinyl sealer & 5 coats pre-cat lacquer I did the tiller neutral on this bow because it was shooting perfect with out positive tiller with the carbon in the limbs I only have to brace 1/4" more on the brace then the 60" the 64" is a sweet shooting bow very stable !
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Tips & overlays
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Well Im doing one more bow for this thread its a experimental bow based on kennys 58" FHLB design Im doing a 14" riser & .030 glass & if it works out shouldn't stack at 31" draw & going to pant it in a ME-109 camo theam its going to be all maple & glass bow got the riser ruffed out ready for fit & fades tapering !
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Your ambitious for a guy that works full time :notworthy:
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I don’t even know that we can still call them kennym bows. I think you’ve done more testing than he has. May have to start calling them Ritchie P bows.
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I think you are moving in the right direction. The new on I been working on has 13.5 riser. I am not sure of the ratio of deflex to reflex but high on the reflex with a .004 taper.They look weird at full draw but work well. And are smooth out to 32 and thinking be fine at 33.
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Nice, Ritchie..
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Ambitious no obsessive maybe ,I guess I could call em KM/RP Hybrid ...lol Mike I figured I will work my way down I wanted to do a 12" riser but not much space for a sight window, eventually I'm try to get to 56" stack free at 31" !
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You keep goin, you will have a bendy handle bow without a shelf, just shoot off your knuckle. Think about that !! :)
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Got it KM/RP Hybrid :biglaugh:
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LOL
Cool..
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I got the 14" riser all fit up there where a few obstacles with doing it mainly the hump on the belly side of the riser due to fade changes so I ended up changeing the thickness to 1.093 I might add some glass footing to the belly overlay for security also ended up changing the stack order to get every thing to bend right around the riser , hopfully get this one glued up the next week end or two !
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Ok here is the stats on the 60 in. 48.6 lb @31 in Im pulling this bow to full 31 in. due to riser design using the same arrow , I checked and rechecked the test to make sure these a real numbers this bow is topping 200s at my draw the highest as posted crazy ,but It will hit 195 fps all day with 550 grain arrow its hard to believe but thats for real ,Kenny said that the 64 in is the faster bow ,at the time I talk to him I had allready had 300 arrows threw it but didnt chrony then ,I took his word for it but it was hitting the back stop harder then the 64 in. Now I know why...lol This shorter bow is a lot more sensitive to form & draw then the 64 in. But wicked fast !!
Just looking at some older posts, that is unreal ya hitting 208fps. on that bow, incredible stuff.
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These bows are quick but keep in mind that's at 31" draw I don't know or have a way to test them at 28" that was the bow that got me hooked on the design , if you lighten the arrows with the 31" draw & lighter strings you can get some crazier numbers !
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58" short riser in bondage and in the oven , hope to get it profiled in the next day or two !
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Can you actually get that thing strapped down before the glue sets? :bigsmyl:
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Yep it takes me just under 1hr & thats with tripple checking every thing it goes pretty fast with straping when you get used to it every thing is locked in solid with the zip ties so all you have to worry about is keeping the hose centered here is the cacoon oven :biglaugh:
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My guess is this one will go 32 in.no problem.
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Well find out soon, I'm thinking of trying a 54" with .002 taper next if this riser works out Mike do you have a full draw & brace pic of your short riser bow ? Does your brace profile look like a coat hanger ?
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Holy Mole' Ritchie!
I was looking back at the pic of the wood Bow and realized it's not braced. Thats some serious reflex. Sinew on that one?
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Yea it had 1100 grains of elk sinew on that one Flem ,I got another osage one on the wall ruffed down and aging 3 years on the wall that keeps taking natural reflex I'm going to sinew it maybe in winter so many bows need built and not enough spare time ! I got a couple hickory & maple sinew bows that are nice shooters just don't shoot them much any more but fun to make !
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So far every thing looks good on the experimental bow , even though this is going to be a camo paint I actualy like the clear glass over the maple , gives me ideas for the future dyed maple with clear glass no veneers ! Hoping to get this profiled & on the tree to check draw weight today or tomorrow !
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That Maple looks nice! :thumbsup: Bet the critters won't mind if you leave it natural. But that's coming from a guy who is biased toward the unadorned.
Looks like it has a honey/aged patina from here. Cant wait to see it shaped up.
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Are you still using the .001 taper rate on the lams. My latest uses .004 and seems to work really well. I have had the 58 in. Out to 32 and pretty sure it has another inch left in it.
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Flem thats exactly how it looks in real time well this one is getting ether a FW 190 or ME 109 WW2 camo job Black/Grey...lol Mike this one is .001 Im going to work down slow thinking .002 next but want to see how this profiles ! Im using left over materials for the test bows to refine Im hoping for a 40-45lb bow with this .030 glass eventualy want 54-56" @31 no stack ! Mike Im thinking the .002 to hold a little more reflex @31 rather then whiping over the tips all speculation only one way to know 😃
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Well I decide on heding out to 9" before taper profile that should give me a minor taper on the last 2" of the PL part of the SL all guessing but I dont want to lose much draw weight going back in the inners I can alwas change it ! any thoughts ?
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Go farther and string it , then adjust as needed
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Had to look up those cams patterns. Interesting choice. You a modeler or maybe your tree stands are in the nose bleed zone?
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Thanks Kenny ! Flem this one is a blind bow Im just kida a vintage airplane buff been a private pilot for 40 years I like the WW2 camo paterns !
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That looks like ASAT
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My friends wife is a artist she offered to do it and also with the yelow tips and candy cane black going around them but I will probably do the blotch grey and black but jumping the gun need to get this one strung....lol I would like to get a air brush !
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I imagine thats going to look pretty Bad A$$
Having no artistic skills myself, makes your friends offer seem exceptional!
Camo on a plane seems odd, but I guess everybody operated by line of sight back then?
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Well Im probably going to do a camo blotch paint theam like around the cockpit in the pic Im no artist & save her offer for when I refine the bow !
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I took Kennys advice and started the front view taper about 3 1/4" out of the fades giving me some wiggle room but left the bow 60 1/2" for now but ground the tips to 1/2" I ment to add another 1/8" but didnt so Im dead at 5/8" at the 58" knock no room for error :knothead:
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Good deal got it to brace feels good Im not feeling any finger pinch or stack feels to me some where around 47-48 lb I will scale it tomorrow & get the wife to take a full draw awsome pretty motavated to get it done see how it shoots !
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I got it weight 49lb even @31 perfect should end up 45-46 lb thanks Kenny for the help on the swag , Im liking the feel it doesn't hit the wall tell about 33" The full draws are at 31" with 3/16 positive first pic & secound pic reversed this bow is pretty light before final tiller & over lays 16.79 oz Im going to lighten up the botom limb a tad and critique the tiller, very cool bow I was going to make the overlays today but the boss has other plans...lol any coments or critgue on the tiller ? any and all coments or questions are always welcome on this thread !
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The limbs look pretty even without any lines to compare on. Bend looks good, you are an experi'mental' machine !!
LOL
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Looks nice Ritchie :thumbsup:
Thats really lite! Be a good hiking Bow.
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Looking good Forward. I just finished a plane myself, a P-51.
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Looks great! Really developing the concept to be very versatile!.
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That looks good. I figured 33. When you say the wall can feel or did you DFC it yet?
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I guess it's ok..
:bigsmyl:
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I guess it's ok..
:bigsmyl:
Wow a lot of traffic here while I was away glad to see it thanks fella's I figure it will weigh 17oz & change when done Flem ,kenny where all exspermenters nothing much has changed in about 4000 years but materials...lol , Wolf P51 D is a awsome bird , Mike just the hill billy FDC pull to the ear...lol but when I get this 56" thats in the works done I will do one Im droping the riser to 13", I was out for the first chance to put the 68" Pig hunter threw its paces today any pig in side of 30 yards is bacon ! That bow shoots good with light or heavy arrows less picky on spine then most of my bows , Im glad you like the bow Roy when are you coming out of the closet & making one ? Bob there is so many ways to go with this FH !
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I made a forward handle, Ritchie..
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Nice one Roy was it glass ?
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Yup, glass:)
LOL, that's the bow I got in the bow swap, canopyboy built it..
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Lol I almost believed you :laughing:
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:wavey:
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I never believed ya! LOL
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:o :archer: :archer2:
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Not a lot of time this week end killer work week but manage to ruff out the belly overlay , fit & glued up , I dont know why I didnt think about this before but ruffed the overlay so I could get good purchase in the vice some center presure shims and tighten up & good to go no messing with clamps ! Should get this one shooting next week !
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Hope that bow don't piss you off. Looks like you got a special tool on your bench to deal with it, just in case. :bigsmyl:
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Lol, didn't notice tell you said that its a NAA cigar lighter :goldtooth:
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To keep Fleem happy...lol I decided to do a natural looking maple bow with flat sawed lams , I got a rain day and doing some planning for the up coming 56" bow I decided Im re doing the form with more reflex and a 12" riser for the shorter bows and a abbreviated S/L but I will posted on a different thread its a different bow then Kennys design but inspired by this design, should have the 58" up and running Saturday & tested !
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Thats a tall order, Ritchie :smileystooges:
Nice looking grain on that Maple :thumbsup:
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Looks like Im getting a decent site window with the 14" riser Im hesitant to push it farther on this test bow sense Im only using .030 glass , I have been carving in the pre dawn hours with hand tools not to wake every body up should be able to clean it up and get shooting with power tools here soon ! Got another rain flood day from work :thumbsup:
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You might think about a G10 off set ibeam for the next one. Adds a bunch of strength.
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Yep Mike thought about it on this one but this test bow is only pulling 46 1/2 lb now but the next for sure I got it shooting and retillered to 46 1/2 lb the site window is good abbreviated where its at I have a 10 strand FF Plus string on it and its real silent shooting ,Im not feeling any stack or finger pinch pretty much feels like the 60" the string angle looks good @31" Im setting up the chrony now , hot as hell here & humid ! Im liking these calico test bows use what ever is laying around !
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Nothing scentific about my test the lightest arrow I have that will spine is 450 grain about 15 grain shy but only got about 10 arrows before the tiller string started to fray no pading or overlays but got a duio at 197 fps @31" keep in mind thats at my long draw and finger release it should make the 190s 10gpp at 31" ! Im liking this bow should be perfect for my new blind !
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Got a chance to play with this bow a bit more changed the arrow rest placement made up a 12 strand FF plus string with double serving and change the brace height and tuned with about 200 arrows with all that ! lost about 7 fps...lol this bow is defenetly showing a preference for lighter arrows may go carbon with this one its like a touchy sports car change one thing & retune , not my fastest bow but sure is fun & fits in the small portable blind , but changing the arrow rest location made this bow more accurate I just have to finish carving and go get some primer paint will post when done !
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I have been shooting this bow a lot lately out at 25 yards got a little over 400 arrows threw it ,so far holding up fine with the .030 glass no issues but even though I figured this bow would shoot light arrows well the irony is it shoots most accurate & silent with 600 grain arrow ,go figure ? If every thing remains the same that will be my hunting weight arrow with this bow at 15-20 yards ! After about 6 mock ups of the new form lay out ,I finalie settled on this one it adds a additional 1" of reflex @56 " more then Kennys original design ,mostly in the outer 1/3 of the limb , Im hopping it will increase the early draw weight I decided Im going .030 glass back & .040 belly on this one ! I got to say making these experimental bows are the most fun I have ever had making bows never ending combos :bigsmyl:
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Ritchie, it looks like your nocks are quite a ways from the tips. Those just temps, or does the Bow get shortened?
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Yep those are temps another inch comes off , makes it easer for the stringer tell I get them shaped I'm shooting with no overlays but even at that length I can set on the ground indian style & shoot this bow with out hitting the dust ,man I better start editing my photos better your pretty observant Flem :biglaugh:
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Figured I shoiuld post this for Flem :biglaugh: but ruffed downed tips with the overlays on ,left just enough length for the stringer going to get this smoothed up & a couple coats of Krylon on tomorrow and be done with the bow & finalise this thred ,trying to finish this up this week end going to Galina Il to look at some new hunting property next week end !
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Thanks Ritchie, I was worried I am getting left in the dark ages here with my rectilinear plant stake Bow's
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:bigsmyl:
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Started my Maco paint job reminds me of my 65 Impala had the same paint...lol any body got a idea on how many coats to do ?
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You related to Earl Scheib? That Bow would look pretty sweet with some candy metallic flakes in the top coat:biglaugh:
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Im going to give it black blotches next now I want to do one in desert camo , not related to Earl unless he was a mail man in the 1950s :laughing:
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I think he delivered milk :biglaugh:
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Starting to take shape FW-190 camo !
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Nice camo
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Thanks Mike this one is done & going to take it out tomorrow I think this bow was the most fun out of all them to make mainly because I wasn't expecting much this one could have ended up in the corner of shame with the rest of my failures as easily as a shooter plus it was cheap to make bet it only cost $60-70 including paint , well if nobody has any question I think I will end this thread to start a new design , I still would like to make another 60" one of these with carbon & foam core maybe I will come back and do it later , but I want to thank every body for there input & help I learned a lot about these designs so thanks every body !
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A couple last notes now that I shot this bow enough to get a idea , this bow with the shorter riser should have the same working limb as the 60" thats true but the 58" bow is a lot more touchy at my 31" draw dont get me wrong it still is a hunter at 20 yards but its un forgiving of bad release or droping the bow arm the amount of arrow off target is more then the other bows after testing all these bows here is my prference in numerical order of best hunting bow
1. 64" D/R modified
2. 64" FHLB
3. 60" FHLB
4. 68" D/R modified
5. 58" FHLB test bow
They are all good hunting bows but Kennys D/R modifieds are very versital user friendly hunting bows & my 64" is my choice to hunt when I can use that length
Thanks again guys !
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Those D/R have good manners. As a rule longer bows more forgiving. and with your draw it may really make a difference.
whats the fruit on that tree.
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I'm not sure what the fruit is I will ask my wife when she gets home she will know I know the critters like em when there down looks like garbage dumb of half eaten ones in the morning ! Yea longer bows always shoot better for me but I'm on a quest to make a short one that shoots good at my draw !
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Well I have spent the last 1000 mi. on the road thinking about this bow & rethinking the 58" design at my long draw and I came to the conclusion I need to remake this bow with a 12" riser using this same form before moving on ,so I will bore you guys with one more :knothead: I think the extra 2" is going to add a lot of stability but only one way to know :biglaugh: also going to use .030 glass back & .040 belly !
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What's the stack thickness going to be?
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Mark this one is going to be .283 with .001 total taper with a 1" shorter P/L each limb , swaging 48lb @31"
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Sound's good
could leave a smoke trail. :archer2:
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Well you never know Mark tell you make the thing, but some times a small change can make a big difference , I like making the same bow you develope some intuition on the design what works but not always...lol thanks for chiming in !
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That looks like black walnut Ritchie. Cut it down and make us some lams!
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:bigsmyl:
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I was thinking walnut to. But I have never seen the foliage that low on a walnut tree.
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I think you guys are right according to my botanical degreed wife ,Mike thats a different bush below I just put the bow in there for contrast that tree is on the tabu list to cut, Im up in Jo Davis county along the Il/Ia border looking at retirement homes the one in my sights I could hunt from the balcony :goldtooth:
This area is infested with huge white tails & some of the best fishing in the state really tempting just to file my SS & take my pension and call it a day !
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Do it Ritchie, cash in those chips! As long as your wife says it's OK :bigsmyl: Be sure to sell all your construction tools before you move.
Looks like a beautiful spot :thumbsup:
I can't wait to hit 62.
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We'll I tried Flem but after inspection I would have to dump another 30 k to get it to work but looked at a lot of others there is a perfect one out there just haven't found it ,the Galina Teritorys are awsome a lot to do beyound hunting fishing , perfect for my metropolitan wife to ,before lunch one day we where shopping in Iowa, went snooping around Wisconsin and lunch back in Il. By 11.30 am so back home & back to work tomorrow :knothead:
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If you do SS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS WITH WORKING you build the account up and maybe get the extra you need.
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Well it's always a tuff call I could retire now SS but only allowed to make $17,500 a year but my pension would be froze where it's at I can do that property now but it's not worth the asking price it's tuff decision because if I wait 3 more yrs it's a huge difference on my pension I will need a lot more $$ for making bows if I have that much more time :biglaugh:
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The crapshoot of life. Now or later. 62 is my lucky number, or so I hope!
I had to look and see where Jo Davis county is. Saw Galena was the county seat. What a nice looking town! I had some great-great- grandparents that had a mine near Galena. Apparently they also had slaves working the mine and the same relative fought in the Union Army. Go figure. I have his Civil war sword.
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That whole area is ingrained in civil war history had lunch in a motel that old Ab Lincoln did a speach in and toured Grants original Galina home , the town has like 200 shops on the strip & beautiful scenery along the river , many gun stores in Dubuque Ia every two blocks , huge archery hunting area plus shot gun , rifle hunting and great turkey hunting a lot to offer but the wife wants to check out North Carolina next before we decide !
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58" short riser in bondage and in the oven , hope to get it profiled in the next day or two !
Is that tire tubes or strapping, what kind of strapping?
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Marc that's a air house topless form & it's mule tape it's a woven 5/8" tape that electricians use to pull long runs of wire the stuff is really strong I never could find a break rating but it's brutally strong stuff, I use it now for lots of different things !
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Thanks
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I have been radio silent on this bow been busy work & family but getting to work tomorrow ,I have a couple bows in the works peace meal but going to concéntrate on this one for the week end ,hope to get it glued up or close ,here is the specs 12"Riser all maple lams & riser total stack .283 ,back glass .030 belly glass .040 , power/lam is shortened by 2" total butt end , should give me a bit more working limb for the same length & the .040 glass should take the extra stress on the lowers ,will see ! So Swag is 48lb @30 1/2"
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Got the12" riser ruffed out this one is going to be tricky sense the fade angle area has changed keeping max thickness on the riser & the right taper on the fades is going to be the trick if there is humps the belly glass doesent want to flaten out right with the topless form , Im on to jointing the lams and do some fit work , will see ! I noticed with other 12" riser D/R designs the fades are steper & thicker then Im doing I thought about trying it but to Chicken :biglaugh:
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Is the hump or the belly part against the hose? I find the hump up (against the hose} does better and you can thin the fades more to..
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No Mike Im still using the same form I wanted to try the 12" riser before building the new one , man I thought I was crammed for a sight window on the 14" riser this one is really going to be abbreviated but doable ,Im geting it worked out need to round this out & take the fades down to final thickness & dry run, Im doing the stack order the same as the last 58" 2 parallels under the riser & S/L over !
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Here is a pic I got good at making these water tite with this form but a lot of work ,the other way would be easier but I think it would slide around more at glue up with the topless form !
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What are we looking at Ritchie, is this a test?
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Flem I'm trying out a new test on a 12" riser Mike was talking about the air hose being on top of the hump I was just showing you can get the same fit just with more work ! It's for another 58" test bow ! .030 glass back & .040 belly !
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Cool :thumbsup: I'm a big fan of short risers. If your limbs are in time and your technique is spot on, lots of working limb is a good thing.
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Well I'm really not looking to add much performance what I'm after is a little extra length for stability when I shoot a bow below 60" they become more difficult for me having a 31" draw so what I'm really looking for is a little more stability and with using all maple in these test bows there very light weight so your release needs to be on or it amplifies your errors !
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Well it worked out got the fades with in 15/1000s, I like to hand sand them the rest of the way right before glue up , but every thing worked out still have 1 1/8 thickness on the riser I will make a little thicker belly overlay to compensate, the sight window is another issue but will cross that bridge when I get there, I have options , well Im out of shop time for this week end back to honey do's & I want to start a new Joe Hill novel just finished NOS4A2 and would highly recomend it for psyco/thriller fans he is a awsome author !!
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I took the 58", 14" riser to the range today tuning for the 6th time & finaly got it shooting consistent but had to use the log arrows 2613s the same ones I shoot out of my BW recurves & 175 grain heads Im guessing 600 grain I dont have much exsperience with these short bows , does any body else have tune Issues getting them dialed ? Im good to go at that weight but designed that bow for lighter weight arrows but at 31" draw those are the ticket with this bow ?
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I made my form belly down and it is a pain to fit once the epoxy is on! Using 6 zip ties and now going to use fiber re- inforced tape as well just to tame all the bits! Adding the cling wrap before I lay the pressure strip is hard because I cant really pull it all down until the strip is is place.I have been using temporary zips on opposite side , lay up other side with strip and pull down and then transfer to other limb. Going to leave it as it is though.
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Bob thats one reason I havent made a belly down one yet ,using the topless form I would probably have to go with a toped form & lose my riser length flexability of the topless ,but I have been just leaving the zip ties in play the whole cure time with no issues , I thought of making a c clamp type gizmo that would hold the rise from the side & keep it centered tell air up & then unclamp !
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I haven't got a chance to work on the short riser bow between , squirrel hunting & getting ready for dear season just around the corner but with these all maple riser/lam bows there very light almost to light so I put the Big Jim queiver on to stablise it a bit more , with finding the perfect arrows & stabilizing it ,I moved it to my main blind bow , not bad for a $60 dollar bow I had to put it against the shower curtain to get a pic it blends with every thing else & my arrows are as long as the bow in the quiver :)
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Bob if your still around I got this Zip tie gun yesterday & some heavy duty industrial ties , this might be the answer to really clamp every thing in place at the riser , it can put some serious pressure on the riser area , Im going to try it later will let you know !
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Yep still breathing mate! Lol. Looks like it might be a good thing. I also using fiber re- inforced tape as well .Does a good job too.
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I think for the limb area I will lighten the presure to much could cause a hinge threw the presure strip , hoping to get this glued up this morning , glad your still sucking air :)
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Hah hah. Yep all good Have to see how you go with it.
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Wait til Elroy sees THIS !!! ;)
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He never comes here gives him a head ache :biglaugh:
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Another in the cocoon that tool is junk to slow & finiky !
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Man my blanket hot box shot up to 254 F I put the bulbs on so no pre warm went and cut the grass maybe 20 min. cut it back down to just the electric blankets hope Im good :smileystooges:
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Popped it off looks good it is going to be tuff for a sight window I might have to use small fletched arrows , problem solving 101 , any thoughts ?
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Be careful your overlays dont get into the flexing part of the fades.
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I guess it's ok:)
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Thanks Roy ,Mike for sure ! staying out of the fades , well will see all is up for grabs on experiments , I have high hopes for this long draw shortie ! First time I tried .030 back & .040 belly.
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Im getting this one cleaned up & hopfully profiled today , Im really liking the flat sawn honey look of this maple I might exsperment with a acid tone epoxy finish for the riser or tung oil to see if the I can get the riser to match !
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This one is starting to look like a bow, man this thing is really a feather weight bow
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I guess it's ok:)
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That Maple looks awesome Ritchie. Whats an acid tone finish?
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Just mixing acid tone & smooth on , those pics are not that good in real time it has a nice honey/maple patina thanks Roy , I got 1 set of knocks cut and the boss kyboshed my shop time today hope to get it strung in the morning feels like its around the right weight will see !
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You should check out this Clear Coat epoxy. It real low viscosity, but 100% epoxy solids . I use it for "Micarta", because it wets out most materials without thinning. I have also used it as a guide coat on some risers. It actually brushes OK at package consistency. It's viscosity is rated at 400cps, EA-40 is around 70,000-100,000cps.
https://www.systemthree.com/products/clear-coat-low-viscosity-epoxy-sealer
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Thanks Flem I'm going to play with some scrap maple, I might go dark overlays haven't decided yet , I figured the thinned smooth on would match the same patina look but jumping the gun need to see how every thing bends with the short riser and bobbed super/lam !
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Got it strung first impressions compared to the other 58" seams to have much better early draw & defiantly smoother draw it feels just like the 60" to me I dont know how that will translate to shooting yet but so far so good ! The bobbed S/L added more working limb but I think 58" is the minimum for this form the profile is starting to become more angular with slightly less reflex !
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Flem that looks like good stuff for bows, have you sprayed it?..
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Roy , Flem hasn't even turned 62 yet , he sleeps in :biglaugh:
I wonder what the shelf life is ?
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Is it 8:00 yet?
Roy, I have not sprayed it. Did not want to thin it, so I brushed it on.
Ritchie, as far as I can tell it does not have a shelf life. The only epoxy's I have had go bad are Smooth-On with the slow hardeners. I've got some G-1 that's close to 20yrs old, just used some the other day, no problems.
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Flem Thanks for the info I will stick that one in my pocket for later I'm hopping the tung oil will get me close so I can use my standard vinyl seal & pre cat lacquer will see !
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Why would ya have to thin it with such a low viscosity?
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400cps is thin for epoxy, not so much for spraying. I timed it thru a #4 Ford cup at about 30sec. I aim for 15-20sec when I'm shooting finish thru the Asturo ES.
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Well shucks son...
Ifin ya buys ya ah good gun, it will spray the 400 stuff...
:wavey:
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That gun on the left will push thinned latex, but it's huge. The little one on the right is so nice for spraying one or two bows. The finish off the tip of that detail gun, makes me feel like a pro. But I'm thinking it's not going to atomize 10w30.
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I got a chance to play with this bow a little more, here is the braced profile differences between the 58" & 14" riser vs 12" riser & bobbed S/L I really like the draw smoothness of the short riser & bobbed S/L !
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Bobbed superlam ?? do you mean acetone finish
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I mean a shortened super lam on the butt end , the acetone finish is Ea-40 & acetone mix !
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Who would not like their 12" riser bobbed.
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As soon as my wife & my schedule work out where were home at the same time I will get a full draw pic but I need to get the overlays on so I can get it shooting maybe this week end !
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Is that EA-40 finish gloss,semi, or flat
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Mark I don't know I'm trying it for the first time on scrap to see I will let you know I was just going to use it on the riser and the side of the lams to get it to match the flat sawn lams under the glass then shoot every thing with pre cat lacqure !
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One of the guy's on here a few years back used Devcon 2 ton epoxy 25 ml. and 1/3 cup Acetone.
Gloss finish
I used 2 of the 25ml. and 2/3 cup, about 7 coats
mix in a plastic cup
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I’m curious about this smooth on finish as well. Maybe you could start another thread in case others have tried.
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Wow this one is a whole new 58" bow compared to the 14" riser got the belly overlay & sight window ruffed in and stoped to shoot about 50 arrows at 15 yards this bow is as smooth if not smoother then the 60" 16" riser at my draw its just butter smooth from a shooting point, Im glad I found the right combo before hunting season the shortened sight window doesnt effect any thing for me , Still a lot of work yet smoothing up every thing and tip overlays but im impressed with this one !
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Well I spent the rest of my shop time shooting & playing with this little bow I made some comparisons between the 60" and this bow in the pics when the ramps are matched up it has a little more working limb between the shortened riser & super lam !
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We discussed overlay placement on these bows before, so being cramped for room on this riser I ran some bend testing on this bow before deciding where to cut the sight window & I found that when the over all thickness of the ramps gets to 1/2" there is no more flexing so I figured for a margin of safety for cutting away wood, I stopped my sight window & overlays at 3/4" over all thickness ! Also for my long 31" draw I have been droping my arrow rest height to 1 1/4 " the bow shoots better at that height but have no reason why maybe limb timming at longer draws ! Just figured I would pass along some points that I found before closing out this thread after finishing this one !
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that looks pretty damn good there! Not sure I will go down to a 12' riser though. might just stay with the original version as I only use mine for target popping.
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Thanks Bob well like I said before you make a new one with mods & you end up with 5 more questions but the other 58" 14" riser is a very snappy bow it wants to rotate at release as where this one is the same weight or lighter (Mass)and it is completly dead at release so I'm thinking this one is more efficient in terms of dumping energy into the arrow & the performance figures are qualifying that so far but I'm thinking at more regular draw lengths you might be able to benefit from a shortened power lam portion of the supper lam you basically end up with more working limb in the lowers and a bit more wedge in the tips , but the good thing now is all my experiments payed off and it's just a mater of materials carbon and different glass thickness Ect ,like I said 5 more bows :bigsmyl:
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Start getting fond of those long limbs and pretty soon your going to end up with a ASL! :bigsmyl:
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If I could get a 64" one at my draw not stack I would build one :)
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If I could get a 64" one at my draw not stack I would build one :)
That would be tough at that length.
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I thinking I'm going to make some recurves over winter ,I would like to make a ASL down the line I need to retire then make them all :laugh:
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Finaly got a chance for a full draw pic ,the top [FIRST] pic being the 12" riser shortened S/L VS 14" riser & full length S/L as you can see the 12" has more working limb in the lowers & still maintains great string angle ! Im really liking this user friendly 58" 12" riser bow !
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Got overlays put on , hopping to get this one finished next week , I did the guitar inspired handle works great in small space , the all maple handle overlay is a bit of a pain I have to finish with hand tools & hand sanding its real easy to get tear out !
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That honey colored Maple looks really nice, Ritchie :thumbsup:
I was thinking your riser looked bulbous, now I get the look. It does look like a Guitar body.
I have made a couple of Guitar inspired Bow's, not that I have any musical talent whatsoever! Just think they look cool. It kind of looks like the lower part of the riser is gapped away from the belly glass?
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If your talking the handle over lay on the bottom there is no gap it's just not flush on the side yet and gives it that allusion in the pic ,surprisingly the guitar handle really fits my hand well , I think the dark wood back overlays are going to make the maple limbs pop when finished , you know Flem I'm making this one some what pretty because you liked the maple look other wise it would have all ready been to Earl,s paint shop :bigsmyl:
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Now I'm really glad it looks nice, don't want to take the blame for an ugly bow :biglaugh:
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Well I don't know how pretty it will stay after its first hunt ,where I hunt is pretty deep brush and every thing gets banged up , Im going to have to make another one of these in a 60" with shortened S/L and 14" riser more bang for the same mass ,it should give me the same percentage limbs but not posting it here as moving on to a new design for a while but there are so many varibles to still test !
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I need you guys opinions on color combos, Im thinking I won't like the all honey colored riser so Im thinking for the riser & sides using the guitar toner on the test block so the back is natural maple / honey the belly is black glass and overlays are Mozambique and when top coated with lacquer all the colors should pop ? , I spent the morning tunning the arrow rest & sanding on the riser with about 100 arrows I really like this bow very user friendly !
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Is your toner sample on Maple? It looks a little splotchy and grainy in the pic. Other than that, it looks like a nice rich brown tone that should complement the honey color.
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Thanks Flem Yep it was on maple one coat no vinyl sealer the pic makes it look more red tones then in real time I could stain but that spray toner is hassle free I'm thinking of it as natural tones ecliptic camo :cheesy:
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I've only used toners over finish to shift color a little bit. Did you seal your sample piece before you sprayed?
If not you might try a very thin sealer coat under a sprayed sample to see how it looks. Never hurts to experiment.
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No I did not seal the sample I was more after the color to see if it would work, if it wasn't hunting season I would try to do a sunburst patern like my Fender Strat , that would be cool look on a bow , I thought about taping the center of the limbs on the back and misting the edges with toner but I didn't make this one with pretty in mind it was more a test bow quick but functional , but I think the the 3 tone wood patern will look nice and not show the hunting rash as much as the lighter wood !
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Sunburst :thumbsup: This is one of Roy's Bow's that I thought looked pretty awesome. Has a sunburst effect going on around the nodes.
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Here is a deflex reflex at 66'' with a reverse tip wedge to accommodate a 30'' draw. riser is charcoal actionwood. and belly has the "faux" snake skins. Not allowed the real thing here, not even to possess one. Bow is 50# @ 30'' what are your opinion on the faux stuff. I know it cant match the real thing but I dont have a spare $ 20.000 laying about if I did. [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Man that is awsome looks really good Beautiful !!! How does it shoot ? Im trying to finish the 58" today & hit the blind later ! You are really a artist there mate !!
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Thanks for your kind words. It is quite smooth and has a bit of zip to it. Accommodates long draw very well .
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That one looks really good Bob.
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Well here is the other end of the beauty spectrum :biglaugh:
Got this rustic hunter finished up if it didnt stink from the finish I would take it out tonight but I really like the handle I cant grip it wrong it just naturally drops in place this bow with the 12" riser really has nice shooting maners , now lets see if I can poke somthing with it this year :cheesy:
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That came out really nice Ritchie :thumbsup: It might not have a slew of fancy details, but sometimes a clean simple look is classy.
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Thanks Flem I didn't like the toner exsperments so I hit it with 4 coats vinyl sealer & 6 coats Pre cat Laq. The maple really sucks in the finish nice , Hey Bob did you ever do a 62" D/R modified like your bow with out wedges ? I'm thinking of building one ? Well I think I have burnt out this thread...lol ,so I'm off to make a take down riser & finish up my Hickory/sinew bow !
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No mate, only made 64”, 66” and 68” in the deflex/ reflex. Very little blind hunting here, so not as much call for the shorter length bows. In saying that the 60” forward riser I made for myself, has me infatuated! I think a short riser like your 12” would be a bit small for my huge hands. Loving all the experimenting you have been going. I have been following usually without commenting much. You have built some very good performing bows! Great stuff!
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Thanks for the kind words back at you, I'm going to come back later and try a shortened riser D/R modified 62" , really Bob only scratched the surface on the FHLB so many ideas to go but maybe down the line !
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Just built this 58'' FHLB but with the longer 16'' riser. My chrono is not working but it smokes an arrow.Weights a smidgin over 20 oz! so light you almost forget you are carrying a bow!.
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that last shot was not meant to be there!
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this is the last shot!
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That one is a looker for sure.
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It performs very well too . Still can’t believe how light this design is! Minimal, but conversely zero hand shock. as you would expect with such light weight. Loving it!
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Nice looking bows Guys...
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Pretty nice, Bobby..
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Another beautiful one Bob , you got to love the 58" its the only one Im hunting with this year , zero shock for feather weight rocket !! Now we need to try a 56" :cheesy:
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Looking good Bob.
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really nice bob :bigsmyl:
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Great looking bow. What are the specs on her? I am liking the riser for sure.
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Bow is made from Australian wood species. Riser is PNG spalted Walnut, belly veneers are Black Bean. Bow is 58” ntn and is 52# @ 28”. Only weighs 20 oz but zero hand shock and is very fast and quiet. Thanks guys for the welcome comments too. I guess if I had used a shorter riser, then it would have more working limb, but I am very happy with the outcome in any case as I wasn’t motivated enough to build a new form to accommodate a shorter riser.
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Bob I was thinking on the shortened riser topic ,I'm going to try a shortened riser on the D/R modified here in spring but my form is topped so what I'm thinking is to make a puzzle peace insert for the top of the form & carpet tape it in place to accommodate the shortened riser ,I think it should work, it probably would work for your FHLB form , the 58" short riser changed my thinking on short limbs & long draw !
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Thanks buddy. I will be interested to see the outcome but currently would not find the time to do that myself. Love your work.?
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Hey guys as you see I am pretty new here and have only made a couple of bows. I am contemplating making my first laminate only made self bows and bamboo backed. Based off all the comments on here I would like to try the forward handle and will be ordering a kit from kennym. My question is this. Has anyone tried putting heavier glass on the back and lighter on the belly to get more snap or cast? I know I have to trap the backs of my bamboo backed bows but those are natural materials. Thanks. Hopefully it isn’t a stupid question. Going to try a 58” longbow. I short bows.
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I have heard heavier on belly, but I'm not sure I can tell any difference. My hunting bow has .05 on belly and .03 on back (test) but didn't gain much that I could tell from equal both sides. It's real hard to tell what gets a couple fps, two identical bows can be that different... ;)
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Wow I was surprised to see this old thread pop up, I haven’t been around for a couple years do to taking care of a family member , but Kenny pretty much mirrored my experience with different backing thickness on this design , I started out with the standard size as it gave me a good base line to experiment from the shorter bows are a little harder to tiller and hit your weight and there is a pretty fair learning curve from self bows to glass so the easier I made it the better good luck and post you results !
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My question is this. Has anyone tried putting heavier glass on the back and lighter on the belly to get more snap or cast?
From a structural standpoint this is the logical way to make the bow, but the experienced guys will tell you what these two just did and that it makes no measurable difference.
Mark
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Thanks all. Just silly thoughts on my head
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On an ASL I go a little thicker on the belly to defend against core compression and string follow. Sort of trying to center the neutral plane.
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Ritchie, good to see ya (virtually) my friend!! :thumbsup:
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Thanks Kenny good hearing from you haven’t been doing any bow making but going to retire in October so pick back up then , you and Roy will have to retrain me (oh boy) 😂 I like your latest long bow post !