Post by: arachnid on April 15, 2018, 03:17:40 PM
Did anyone use an air hose form without the top part? i remember seeing such a form here some time ago (the guy
used a rop, I think, to secure the hose on the laminations and then he pumped the air).
Any pros/cons? I would think this kind of form would be more versatile, allowing more then one riser design.
Your thoughts?
Post by: kennym on April 15, 2018, 03:29:06 PM
I used the braided poly rope like ski rope because I didn't think it would stretch, and it prob didn't.
I may try it again soon, forms are lighter to handle and if it works , it works!
Post by: arachnid on April 15, 2018, 03:32:00 PM
Building a double sided form seems like a pain in the butt....
Anyone else have some experience or thoughts?
Post by: PV on April 16, 2018, 08:39:36 AM
Post by: C. Johnson on April 16, 2018, 01:03:46 PM
I like a pneumatic form for the even distribution of pressure, but I think it's somewhat limiting. Also, they tend to be massive and I have only a small shop. I was debating using 1/8" (3mm) coated steel cable in place of the rope to avoid issues with stretching. Never got that far though.
I know I'm the odd man out here, but I honestly prefer clamps. The only downside to clamps is tightening them enough to get a good joint, but not so much that I squeeze all the glue out or dimple the fiberglass. I have it pretty well worked out now, but it took a while to get there.
Currently, I'm experimenting with using 1/8" steel pressure strips in place of the aluminum I currently use. This, coupled with C clamps modified by welding a nut in place of the cross handle will allow me to use a torque wrench to set them exactly the same without dimpling the fiberglass if I get carried away.
I'll let you guys know how it works out.
Post by: monterey on April 16, 2018, 01:12:41 PM
Post by: mwosborn on April 16, 2018, 06:01:01 PM
https://www.facebook.com/RusticArcher/videos/1280048622140643/
Post by: monterey on April 16, 2018, 07:41:39 PM
Still rethinking My rubber band system. Clamps or your hose method would be adaptable to my forms.
Thanks for taking the time to do the video and post it.
Post by: mwosborn on April 16, 2018, 08:16:00 PM
Post by: rockkiller on April 16, 2018, 09:31:20 PM
Post by: C. Johnson on April 17, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
I did my first bows with the rubber band method and I found that surgical tubing seemed to work much better than cut up inner tubes.
I still use it on occasion for clamping grip overlays.
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 17, 2018, 09:15:33 AM
I wanna tape up ole KennyM..
Kenny Mule....
:laughing:
Post by: Crooked Stic on April 17, 2018, 11:56:05 AM
Post by: Crooked Stic on April 17, 2018, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 17, 2018, 02:15:36 PM
LOL
Post by: Forwardhandle on April 17, 2018, 03:49:42 PM
Post by: goobersan on April 17, 2018, 08:42:38 PM
"https://youtu.be/r_4cbfw8Q88"
Thanks Roy :thumbsup:
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 17, 2018, 08:43:11 PM
Post by: rockkiller on April 17, 2018, 11:31:52 PM
You boys are getting out of my comfort zone :laughing: :laughing:
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 18, 2018, 06:33:52 AM
:laughing:
Post by: rockkiller on April 18, 2018, 08:11:15 PM
Ah heck Rock, don't tell me ya wouldn't get a chuckle out of ole Kenny being taped up wif mule tape?
:laughing:
Not sure mule tape would hold......he is from Missouri :biglaugh:
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 17, 2018, 01:25:27 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 17, 2018, 02:12:16 PM
Post by: Flem on June 17, 2018, 04:41:47 PM
Post by: monterey on June 17, 2018, 10:21:59 PM
I did a dry run with a hose the other day and the dowels held just fine up to 50 psi. That's as high as I went cause all I had was a bicycle pump and I got tired. :)
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 18, 2018, 03:24:52 AM
Post by: Shredd on June 18, 2018, 09:11:28 AM
I use an air hose without a top form, but the air is going the wrong way.
Are you using a vacuum?? If so, There you go Dor... That would be the way to go...
Post by: monterey on June 18, 2018, 03:15:32 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 18, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Post by: monterey on June 18, 2018, 04:05:18 PM
Post by: kennym on June 18, 2018, 04:34:41 PM
Post by: monterey on June 18, 2018, 06:35:09 PM
Post by: Flem on June 18, 2018, 07:29:50 PM
Yep
Post by: Shredd on June 18, 2018, 08:20:06 PM
Post by: arachnid on June 20, 2018, 08:56:04 AM
Post by: Flem on June 20, 2018, 09:10:26 AM
Post by: arachnid on June 20, 2018, 10:24:30 AM
Can you give in depth instructions on how to use this method?
Type of beg, all the process etc...
Will it work on R/D longbows?
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 20, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Post by: monterey on June 20, 2018, 05:48:57 PM
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Post by: kennym on June 20, 2018, 07:40:04 PM
The weak spot when I did it was up the ramps just like with bands. Will be interested to see how yours works!
Post by: Flem on June 20, 2018, 07:51:11 PM
Post by: monterey on June 20, 2018, 09:01:34 PM
Post by: C. Johnson on June 20, 2018, 09:54:49 PM
Of course, the vacuum bag style Kung Fu is intriguing me as well.
Post by: kennym on June 20, 2018, 10:03:42 PM
I'll be pulling it in the morning soooo.... I'll be posting results and also a critique of what might be done better.
This is how we all learn, by somebody posting how theirs worked!! :thumbsup:
Post by: arachnid on June 20, 2018, 11:05:34 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 21, 2018, 04:36:55 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 21, 2018, 07:37:29 AM
Post by: monterey on June 21, 2018, 03:28:02 PM
The drill:. Pretty sure it was a 7/16. The dowels were a light tap with a hammer fit. On other forms that weren't a tighter fit I have put a drop or two of titebond on them.
Hmmmm, I didn't do any shims anywhere. You might be looking at my cobbled up side guides? I guess that would be a shim. There are two on each side in the area of the riser to make sure it stays straight. Those guides are the same ones I used for the rubber band system except I shortened them and rounded them off. These would be better made of metal for sure.
So, I'm calling this a success. The glue lines are good everywhere. These are pretty steep. They rise from zero to 1.75" over a length of five inches. The glass and a .030 parralel are all that runs up the belly side of the riser. I have previously built with thick butted tapers running up the ramps and know that they can be problematic with any pressure system unless it is perfect.
For a pressure strip I used a full length strip of galvanized sheet metal gotten from Bingham 26 year ago.
The zip ties are ideal for this process. I pulled them very tight and was able to position the side shims perfectly when the ties were pulled tight and was able to wrap the hose down without anything skittering around.
I put ten pounds of pressure on hose and cut and pulled the ties. I overlooked one which my sharp eyed grandson spotted after airing to 75# and we were able to cut and pull it but I suggest pulling them at low pressure!
Here's some pictures.
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Some things learned.
The dowels are 2.5" apart. A bit closer together would probably be better.
You need to get ALL the air out of the hose.
You need to keep the hose carefully centered and not allow it to extend more over either side.
You need to pull the hose down tight against the layup. You are simulating a top form with a minimal gap.
So that's it for now. Happy to answer any questions and hear all suggestions.
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 21, 2018, 03:44:55 PM
Post by: monterey on June 21, 2018, 07:38:22 PM
Post by: Bvas on June 21, 2018, 07:58:49 PM
The ties went on before the pressure strip.I would’ve thought over the pressure strip.
Would probably be easier to remove. Also probably wouldn’t hurt anything if you accidentally left one on.
Post by: kennym on June 21, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 22, 2018, 04:19:41 PM
Post by: monterey on June 22, 2018, 08:19:28 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 22, 2018, 08:51:11 PM
Post by: mwosborn on June 23, 2018, 08:14:28 AM
Post by: Flem on June 23, 2018, 08:32:32 AM
How long did it take to truss it up?
Post by: monterey on June 23, 2018, 12:58:24 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 26, 2018, 03:03:00 PM
Post by: Mad Max on June 27, 2018, 12:10:48 PM
Hi Guys.
Did anyone use an air hose form without the top part? i remember seeing such a form here some time ago (the guy
used a rop, I think, to secure the hose on the laminations and then he pumped the air).
Any pros/cons? I would think this kind of form would be more versatile, allowing more then one riser design.
Your thoughts?
Trux Turning did that for his riser overlays with out the form.
That may be what you saw. :dunno:
That Mule tape looks good ;)
Post by: Forwardhandle on June 29, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Post by: C. Johnson on July 02, 2018, 10:13:46 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 27, 2018, 01:49:26 AM
Post by: onemississipp on August 27, 2018, 07:27:34 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: C. Johnson on August 27, 2018, 08:17:10 AM
Post by: Shredd on August 27, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
Post by: Shredd on August 27, 2018, 09:04:53 AM
Post by: onemississipp on August 27, 2018, 09:57:21 AM
I got an idea for you guys that want to go topless... On a 1 1/2" wide form, why don't you cut a piece of wood 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" to conform to the top shape of your form and round off the top of it... You will need way less wraps and you will have a more even pressure on the lams being glued... I might even try this myself...
I see what you mean about creating a top piece to apply a more even pressure, however I believe the idea was to not have to make a top piece that conforms to the fades and riser area.
This hose wrapping technique gives the freedom of not having to make the top and allows for different riser designs without having to change a thing.
It is also less to store and mess with during glue up.
The hose will apply equal pressure as long as it is wrapped appropriately.
I see it as an improvement to the old band method.
I am going to give it a try on the HH I have neglected to build over the last 5 years. Building the form was one of the major reasons I just never got motivated to do it, this changes that for me.
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 27, 2018, 10:27:10 AM
Post by: monterey on August 27, 2018, 01:57:45 PM
Thanks for a good follow up. How much pressure were you using when the dowels broke?
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 27, 2018, 02:17:48 PM
Post by: monterey on August 27, 2018, 02:36:20 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 27, 2018, 04:47:18 PM
Post by: mwosborn on August 27, 2018, 06:01:46 PM
I like the profile of that bow Ritchie. How far in front of the riser are those tips going to end up?
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 28, 2018, 04:18:15 AM
Post by: mwosborn on August 28, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Post by: kennym on August 28, 2018, 07:34:24 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on August 29, 2018, 03:45:42 AM
Post by: Tim Y on September 04, 2018, 08:48:38 PM
I'm hoping that my brother can give me the Mule Tape that I will need for this project, he's an Electrician. Can someone tell me how many feet of Mule Tape to ask for. I'm building a 64" D/R bow. I don't want to end up short and I don't expect my brother to hand over 300', well we're not that close.
Thanks
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 05, 2018, 04:24:27 AM
Post by: Tim Y on September 05, 2018, 04:30:46 PM
I'm looking at 3/8" mule tape. I'll ask for 150' and have some paracord on hand just incase that isn't enough mule tape. I'll let folks know how it turns out once I get my form built.
-Tim Y
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 05, 2018, 04:44:06 PM
Post by: arachnid on September 06, 2018, 04:53:42 AM
How does it work?
Post by: Crooked Stic on September 06, 2018, 07:51:42 AM
cord may stretch too much.
Post by: Forwardhandle on September 06, 2018, 04:21:54 PM
Post by: monterey on September 06, 2018, 05:49:13 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on October 10, 2018, 05:26:03 AM
Post by: Shredd on October 10, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Post by: Mark Smeltzer on October 10, 2018, 10:47:36 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on October 10, 2018, 01:02:15 PM
Post by: Mark Smeltzer on October 10, 2018, 02:23:06 PM
I use 65-70 PSI also and 170 deg F
Post by: kennym on October 10, 2018, 07:24:19 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on October 10, 2018, 07:59:32 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 10, 2018, 08:03:35 PM
Post by: Shredd on October 10, 2018, 08:14:03 PM
I do 35- 40.... I am not gonna get into it... Talked about that stuff enough already... We all have our reasons and if it works for you then you are good to go...
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 10, 2018, 08:27:27 PM
Ya best gets yer self ah new air compressor son...
Dat ones gotta ah leak...
:wavey:
Post by: Shredd on October 10, 2018, 08:59:30 PM
Post by: monterey on October 10, 2018, 09:44:04 PM
I'm 70.
:laughing: :laughing:
Post by: Forwardhandle on October 19, 2018, 07:48:22 AM
Post by: Buemaker on October 19, 2018, 08:11:07 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on November 14, 2018, 04:12:49 PM
Post by: monterey on November 14, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 04, 2018, 06:30:37 PM
Post by: monterey on December 04, 2018, 07:46:47 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on December 04, 2018, 08:09:28 PM
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 07, 2019, 04:56:19 PM
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Post by: fujimo on January 08, 2019, 09:54:01 AM
what is the motivation?
is it to save time and materials, and not have to make a top, or is it for increased versatility with the form?
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 08, 2019, 10:28:31 AM
make another , Im just posting to save others time & trouble or maybe somebody will find something else that I missed but I have to say I really like it now the bugs are out !
Post by: Garman on January 08, 2019, 11:24:11 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 08, 2019, 12:25:10 PM
Post by: monterey on January 08, 2019, 12:40:58 PM
trying to learn here, but for those of you that have gone the topless route ;)
what is the motivation?
is it to save time and materials, and not have to make a top, or is it for increased versatility with the form?
For me, it is the versatility. I had three ASL forms with tops that I could see would be more versatile in the the length and shaping of the riser. I had been using rubber bands on several forms but using the topless air hose is far simpler, faster and gives better glue lines. At this point I have four topless ASL forms and will convert my RD form before the next layup.
My work areas are all unheated so this is the time of year to mess with forms which I will be doing for the next couple months.
Post by: garyschuler on January 08, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
You can adjust pressure where you need it.
They built a lot of bows this way in the past and it is a time proven method that is still used by many Bowyers still.
Post by: stretch2 on January 09, 2019, 12:14:07 AM
Post by: Mark R on January 09, 2019, 10:29:38 AM
Post by: Forwardhandle on January 09, 2019, 11:11:15 AM
Post by: buddyb on February 02, 2019, 10:06:55 PM