Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 04, 2018, 01:28:52 PM
So anyway, I am wondering on how is my best approach.if nyone who has done this could chime in, that'd be awesome.
I am thinking of doing hickory back, maple core and ipe belly.
With this, how do I go about grinding and setting up for the build? Do I keep a 1/8 back for my hickory, 1/4 maple core, and then the rest ipe? Glue it all together into a solid board and then work it as if it is a board bow?
Or do I profile and taper the lams before glue up?
And do I just use titebond or am I screwing up by not using epoxy?
I only have tbb 1 and 2, so not sure if trilams are covered in later episodes or what. If someone has a good resource, that be good too.i know I'm asking a bunch of stuff here.
Thanks for the help guys.
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Post by: TradBowyer on April 04, 2018, 01:40:29 PM
Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 04, 2018, 02:14:27 PM
So no tillering after glue up?
Seems like without glass, the tiller would be a crap shoot.or am I overthinking it?
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Post by: Bowjunkie on April 04, 2018, 02:40:52 PM
The draw weight is 'ballparked' by the thickness of the lams, but since there's no glass in the way, weight can be reduced by removing wood from the belly as well as the sides.
Post by: BMorv on April 04, 2018, 03:02:02 PM
That's a good choice of materials you have. It should work fine if you have quality straight grain hickory and ipe.
Glue up your lams full width with the profile drawn out on the backing. It's almost impossible to draw out an accurate profile if you wait till after you glue in r/d.
After glue use the bandsaw and cut out your profile. Add a riser and tip overlays, round off edges, facet everything, and start tillering. You will have to tiller these some unless you have done some experimenting or you follow to the T the exact recipe someone else did, and even then you will have to do some tillering to even the limbs and balance it to your style of shooting. On your 1st try go a little thicker on the belly, like .050" more than you need so that you have room to play with. It took me 5 tries before I was able to predict the right recipe, and I still have tillering to do. Just not as much as lets say a self bow.
Taper your lams before glue up. I use .002 "/inch on all three lams for a total of .006"/inch taper. Some guys don't taper the belly and just do around a .004"/inch total taper. I like my tiller to look more like an arch because I use a straight pyramid that's why I use more taper. Up to you on that.
Post by: BMorv on April 04, 2018, 03:12:48 PM
And check out BB4, laminated bow section. Mike Westvang builds an awesome bamboo/osage/osage tri lam. Maybe not the best for a beginner as he puts a load of reflex in his, but you get a lot from the process.
Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 04, 2018, 03:29:08 PM
So glue up. What's your glue/epoxy of choice?
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Post by: BMorv on April 04, 2018, 03:34:13 PM
I've used Weld wood plastic resin also and it works well.
TB3 would work, but it has no gap filling properties. I've used it a lot on single lams and it works fine.
Post by: Ruben on April 04, 2018, 03:50:43 PM
Darn, I was going to tell you to read through some of Roy's builds, but just realized the new website obsoleted all of the old stuff.
Fyi,
All of the old posts or at least 99.99999% of them are intact.
It is just old links and bookmarks refer to the old site links so they don't work to find them.
I don't know which Roy you are referring to but if you search this site they should all be there.
Give it a try.
Post by: BMorv on April 04, 2018, 04:05:08 PM
The user is "Roy from PA" and I've search 4 different ways now and I can't pull up any of his builds. I hate to be so critical as I'm sure there was a lot involved in making the new website, but the new search feature isn't very good.
Post by: Ruben on April 04, 2018, 04:15:36 PM
But since I don't have any clue what to search for, here are all of his posts.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10116
Easy for anyone to find.
See if you can find what you are looking for then use the search.
Post by: Bowjunkie on April 04, 2018, 04:38:49 PM
BUT, the best glue to use on a trilam should largely depend on the gluing surfaces... or is it the other way around? Same result I guess. Lol. I grind my parts with 40 grit, and prep bamboo, handle, and overlays with a toothing plane blade, so I want a glue with good gap filling properties. Perhaps your gluing surfaces will be much smoother, in which case you may want to use Titebond or something similar.
Post by: mwosborn on April 04, 2018, 05:37:03 PM
Darn, I was going to tell you to read through some of Roy's builds, but just realized the new website obsoleted all of the old stuff. This kinda sucks. I have a lot of saved builds from the old site that I reference.
The search feature is a little different and takes some getting used to, but it does work. Same format used on other sites. Here is one of the builds Roy posted a few years ago. Hope the link works.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=155065.msg2680182#msg2680182
Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 04, 2018, 09:49:19 PM
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Post by: BMorv on April 04, 2018, 10:18:25 PM
Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 04, 2018, 10:25:39 PM
All you need is 70 deg and it will cure. I normally put it in a bathroom with a space heater and leave it over night.Sweet, thanks. That's even better
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Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 05, 2018, 01:29:43 PM
Sourcing this material, how cautious do I need to be with grain violations on the belly and core materials?
I know the hickory backing needs to be good and straight, but what about the other layers? I mean is anything short of burl wood gonna be okay? Or what?
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Post by: Roy from Pa on April 05, 2018, 02:28:16 PM
This one>>>-----------> http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=155065.msg2680182#msg2680182
Back and belly you want very good straight grain, very little run outs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZlFpRwcnWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bRYE1hPYy0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSwx80xjTUE
Post by: BMorv on April 05, 2018, 02:34:34 PM
If you plan to cut your own from boards, you want to be very picky on board selection. I recently went through a stack of 100 ipe boards an came back with 1. Your bow is only as good as the materials it's made up of.
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 05, 2018, 02:44:21 PM
Little orenery, little goofy in the head, little.. Ah heck I guess he is ok:)
https://www.kennysarchery.com/
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 05, 2018, 03:02:43 PM
Do a dry run on the edge of bench, run a string from tip to tip to get it straight, and clamp it down to bench.
I drill 2 holes in the handle grip area and a hole on each side of the limb tips.
After the parts are glued together, I put toothpicks into those holes to keep the bow straight.
Wrap the bow with plastic wrap after applying the glue.
Or you will have a mess...
Pad the back and belly material with something to protect it from damage if using C clamps.
Or you will cause damage to the back especially that could be detrimental to the bows survival.
Post by: Bowjunkie on April 05, 2018, 03:19:53 PM
Some guys think because it's a laminated bow that they can use any old piece of wood.... especially for the core.... ya know.... maybe it has knots, is warped to the side, or has runout, or a swirly hard spot, or it's cut flat grain and cut through a bunch of growth rings, etc. I won't use that stuff. I'm not saying you can't make a bow out of some of it, there are varying degrees of quality, but the best bows are made with the best materials and I'm done fighting bows because I tried to use something I should have burned.
I've burned a lot of bow wood culling my stash to have good quality wood in the shop, and I understand not everyone has access to it or makes it the priority I do... I'm just saying... use the best you can get your hands on.
On a scale of 1 to 10, I want the backings to be 10's, the cores to be clear 7's or better, and the belly lams to be 9's or 10's.
One wood that I will lower my standards for just a wee bit by comparison is Yew, only because it seems to deal with knots differently than the hardwoods do... and I mean a WEE bit. I'm still very picky.
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 05, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Quote
I'm still very picky.
Not you?
Say it isn't so...
:laughing:
Post by: Bowjunkie on April 05, 2018, 03:47:24 PM
Post by: Exiled_Archer on April 05, 2018, 09:28:27 PM
I'm one of those people who was thinking "ah screw it, its laminated. How much for the #3 pine?"
Lol not really. But I was thinking belly wood I could get away with a 7 and core wood a 4-5 (knot free).
So with what's been said, I'll up the expectations on my lams. Thanks for the link to kenny. I know I should just buy lams, but it's so hard for me to buy stuff. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.
Thanks guys.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on April 05, 2018, 09:57:17 PM
But hickory will be fine also.
I have a thin wooden pattern of my bows profile. I lay that pattern on the flat side of the boo after I have flattened the belly side of the boo or you can lay it on the hickory backing. You can see the pattern laying over to the right in the picture.
This picture below is a hickory backing, after my pattern was traced onto it, then cut out on the bandsaw then sanded to the line.
I glue the belly lam, core lam, and backing up all at one time in my form. The form in the above videos.
Then when that is dry, you glue on a 12 to 13 inch riser, traced out to match the curve that was put into the bow's handle section from being in the form.