Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bob Morrison on March 27, 2018, 05:10:19 PM
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Can anyone tell me if a thumb tab. a leather tab for your thumb with no assist. Just pulling with your thumb and index finger. Is considered as legal for different shoots Barebow, 3d etc.???
Bob
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those are considered exactly what they are, release aids. the rest depends on who's holding the event. national orgs separate fingers from release aids, as usually do state events. local events can be quite different.
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Thanks Rob. I still wonder if using just my thumb and index finger with no protection? Is this still a release aid?
Bob
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Thanks Rob. I still wonder if using just my thumb and index finger with no protection? Is this still a release aid?
Bob
it absolutely is a release aid. so is the asiatic thumb ring that 2000 years old, and that's about as trad archery as trad archery can get. :saywhat:
there is no question that any manner of flap, rope or ledge release is not only a release aid, it's lots more consistent than fingers. LOTS. :wavey:
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My bare naked fingers and thumb is a release aid????
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My bare naked fingers and thumb is a release aid????
if that's what's gripping the string, nope. that's a finger shooter - split, two under, or three under.
the "thumb tab" is really a flap of whatever that replaces yer fingers. much less string torque, lots less string contact, far more consistent if the archer does all the other form things in a good manner. i competed with straps (that's what we called them back in the 60's and 70's) as well as ropes and rope ledges. FAR easier than fingers and that's why any other manner of pulling back a bowstring other than with fingers is considered a release aid.
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Thanks Rob, I get asked this question a lot. Not that I will ever shoot competitive but it is nice to have an idea what is legal. It does seem strange to me that a finger tab is fine but a tab on your thumb is a no no, sure hope deer never hear about this. :pray:
Bob
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there are very definite advantages to using a thumb flap tab on the string as opposed to fingers on that string. pure physics and why releases are in a separate class. there are local-to-me trad clubs/shoots that will allow a thumb flap/rope release, typically those archers are known within the clubs and that they can't use fingers and can only shoot with an aid.
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Are we talking a thumb tab like the Talon, or a thumb tab like Joel Turner shoots?
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Are we talking a thumb tab like the Talon, or a thumb tab like Joel Turner shoots?
a talon style thumb flap tab thingy.
what is it that joel is using?
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https://youtu.be/pRp5d4lTvq4
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In a podcast or video, Joel says that his index finger is touching the arrow so it is legal. I'm sure each shoot will rules themselves.
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I.B.O. rules clearly states for every class, "....shot with fingers directly contacting the bowstring..."
So.... shooting with your thumb is not acceptable in I.B.O.
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Like Joel Turner shoots, I Like Rogers Talon 3 or 4, can't get the hang of the thumb tab. Been playing with glove like Joels and like it a lot.
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Not to be argumentative, but if I shoot with a standard tab, my fingers are not in "direct contact with the string". I understand what they are saying, but three under is ok, split is ok, two fingers os ok, but not a thumb?
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Guess I should have posted the whole sentence; it reads, "A recurve or longbow shot with fingers directly contacting the bowstring using a glove, finger tab, or bare fingers...."
The key part in context of this discussion is, "shot with fingers." Can't speak for other organizations, but I.B.O. is pretty clear.
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I.B.O. rules clearly states for every class, "....shot with fingers directly contacting the bowstring..."
So.... shooting with your thumb is not acceptable in I.B.O.
interesting. the IBO doesn't consider a thumb a finger.
imho, a true FLEXIBLE leather thumb tab is not a release aid, but a thumb RING is a true ledge release aid.
all of this is moot to me since the critters we hunt aren't gonna tell us we're not allowed to hunt 'em with straps, flaps, rings 'n' things. :laughing:
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a good thumb release tutorial vid ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vvg3rJgVKI
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That is cool as heck...
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so, should a bare thumb that draws a bowstring, or a bare thumb covered by a piece of leather, considered "trad" ... or is it a "release aid"?
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That's a tuffy question, Rob...
I'm still trying to figure out the chicken and the egg deal.. :laughing:
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That what I was trying to get at :goldtooth: The older I get my options change, I have had times I had to shoot a mechanical release Critters never complained. So I figured I would try my thumb, only finger left that doesn't hurt. I feel it is as natural as my finger use to be. I've got a few months to get it right. I do see advantages I gained 2" draw, I get better releases.
BTW I have a left hand glove that Joel is using. New if anyone what to try making one like Joel and you are left handed you can have it for shipping.
Bob
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i just bought one of rogers talon3 flap releases. i hadn't shot one of those in near 40 years. i totally forgot how good they are. there is a technique to using them, but it's easy and the arrow flight is very consistent. yeah, gettin old(er) sux .........
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Most dictionaries do separate fingers and thumb. They are all digits on the hand...but they are defined separately.
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Most dictionaries do separate fingers and thumb. They are all digits on the hand...but they are defined separately.
semantics - the bane of humanity. :jumper:
the point is that any digit contact with a bowstring (but with some form of flexible digit protection material, like leather) still introduces more possibilities of string torque and bad releases than a real bowstring release aid. in most cases, using a "bare" thumb release takes as much if not more practice and skills than a spit, two, or three under finger release. none of this is a "release aid", it's as natural as can be.
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Most dictionaries do separate fingers and thumb. They are all digits on the hand...but they are defined separately.
semantics - the bane of humanity. :jumper:
the point is that any digit contact with a bowstring (but with some form of flexible digit protection material, like leather) still introduces more possibilities of string torque and bad releases than a real bowstring release aid. in most cases, using a "bare" thumb release takes as much if not more practice and skills than a spit, two, or three under finger release. none of this is a "release aid", it's as natural as can be.
Not arguing. I think thumb shooting tabs(not releases) should be allowed in all trad/barebow classes.
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Most dictionaries do separate fingers and thumb. They are all digits on the hand...but they are defined separately.
semantics - the bane of humanity. :jumper:
the point is that any digit contact with a bowstring (but with some form of flexible digit protection material, like leather) still introduces more possibilities of string torque and bad releases than a real bowstring release aid. in most cases, using a "bare" thumb release takes as much if not more practice and skills than a spit, two, or three under finger release. none of this is a "release aid", it's as natural as can be.
Not arguing. I think thumb shooting tabs(not releases) should be allowed in all trad/barebow classes.
i absolutely agree for a thumb tab. it's just another padded digit that has all the issues of any digit applied to pulling back and releasing a bowstring.
but not a thumb ring - that's a ledge release aid.
as a side note, look at all the archery tournament equipment classes, it's mind boggling. this is what we had to contend with when setting up our local tournaments back in the 60's and 70's for having trophies on hand for awards, and to three places for each class.
stickbow barebow fingers - men
stickbow barebow fingers - women
stickbow barebow fingers - under 18 male
stickbow barebow fingers - under 18 female
stickbow barebow fingers - under 12 male
stickbow barebow fingers - under 12 female
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - men
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - women
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - under 18 male
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - under 18 female
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - under 12 male
stickbow fingers limited (bowsight) - under 12 female
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - men
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - women
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - under 18 male
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - under 18 female
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - under 12 male
stickbow unlimited (bowsight and release aid) - under 12 female
and if yer club also included wheelbows, yikes!!
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I made myself a tab like Joel use's but my poor old arthritic thumb would not take the pressure. That I why I made the Talon Thumb Tab so the pressure is transferred to the back of the hand. Like Bob say's it takes a little getting used to but once you find the right spot it is sure nice to shoot. And like they say I really don't care what they call it it works and that is what I am all for. It keeps me shooting.
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Sidebar-- Rob, I have been playing with Roger's thumb tab and it seems good except it slips out from under my thumb when I don't want it to. What am I doing wrong?
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Thanks Roy
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Sidebar-- Rob, I have been playing with Roger's thumb tab and it seems good except it slips out from under my thumb when I don't want it to. What am I doing wrong?
PM incoming ........
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I could use the same tip(s), Rob...
Just got my thumb tab and really like it, but I do not feel so far I am safely in control of the arrow, and it may slip.
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I could use the same tip(s), Rob...
Just got my thumb tab and really like it, but I do not feel so far I am safely in control of the arrow, and it may slip.
i'll shortly be doing a review of the talon3 ....
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When I was first introduced to them 45 years ago a competitive shooter with arthritis was force to compete in the unlimited class. They changed the rule because of him since he shot so well with it and they felt it was an unfair advantage. I don't know if that was Jersey or all over.