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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: strick9 on February 09, 2007, 04:38:00 PM

Title: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: strick9 on February 09, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
Just came in from tuning my new 150 grn Wensel Woodsman screw ins. Shooting at "The Block" 15 to 20 yrds , WEll AFTER 2 Shots per Broad head and minor adjustments flight got worse! I think concentrate on form,, third array of arrows loosed, even worse, then some extreme scrutiny revealed that Low and behold the foam block in all its durability had rolled the tips on 5 of the 6 woodsman's 4 rather severely ...Temp here is 56, so block not hard feels soft to touch, any one else had this experiance. fyi just shot magnus 2 blades no problem with tips???????
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: bowdude on February 09, 2007, 05:05:00 PM
Wow thats not good.  Froze in the middle?  Still, a bad sign for the woodsmans.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: captaincaveman on February 09, 2007, 05:13:00 PM
did ya chisel the points first?

Josh
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: kadbow on February 09, 2007, 05:17:00 PM
Did you file the points like is recommended on the package?
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: strick9 on February 09, 2007, 06:07:00 PM
Duuuuuuuhhhh,,, uuuummmmm the package has instructions????? You know after filing the really bent over one I said to myself that looks much better, never bought a broad head that needed more than sharpening out of the box. Laugh away guys that what it is all about.. Thanks for the help, Man am I busy. Much Regards!
I love this site!!!!!!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Rusty in Fla. on February 09, 2007, 07:55:00 PM
All I ever do to my Magnus broadheads is hone them a little.

  Rusty <><
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: olddogrib on February 09, 2007, 08:41:00 PM
The needle point on the WW is its only weakness. I've filed them to a chisel point, but the easiest thing to do is take some wire cutters or tin snips and just cut off the last sixteenth inch or so of the point.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 10, 2007, 06:32:00 PM
I LOVE the needle point. Uncle Gene and I almost had a fist fight on whether to have it or not on the original design. I can kick his ass so I won. (You just have to watch that Barry isn't around cause they WILL gang up on you)
I want that baby cuttin from the get go...if yer gonna shoot em into foam or straw or what ever, you'll have to clip the tips but for killing critters, sharp to the point says I :-) I wouldn't trade one woodsman for a dozen magnus
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Carbon Caster on February 10, 2007, 06:37:00 PM
Biggie,

Do you have any Magnus heads laying around you want to unload.  I will trade you one woodsman for every 2 dozen Magnus heads.  LOL!!!!!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 11, 2007, 07:55:00 AM
I don't know what kinda shape they're in, I glued some to the bottom of my tomato stakes....
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: AkDan on February 11, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
Thats funny Biggie, considering Magnus and WW are made by the same man!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Roger Norris on February 11, 2007, 12:59:00 PM
Boy do Biggie and I disagree on that one. I have never seen a Woodsman sharpen as well as Magnus 2 blade, ever.

Dig up those tomatoe stakes,Biggie, I have plenty of Woodsmans that I will be happy to send you for your Magnus...
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: KyleAllen on February 11, 2007, 01:40:00 PM
you guys are a trip!!! Bunch of set in your ways old farts! LOL
Kyle
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 11, 2007, 04:32:00 PM
Your right Kyle, :-)

There's more to any product than the product itself.

I'll pay twice as much, for half the quality if the people behind it are rightious (sp)
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Rocky Reimer on February 11, 2007, 05:09:00 PM
Biggie...I thought you were a "RazorCap Man"!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Frank V on February 11, 2007, 07:51:00 PM
Wow mention a broadhead sit back & watch the sparks. Frank
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Terry Green on February 11, 2007, 07:57:00 PM
I always 'pyramid' the tip of my WWs......much more durable.  That non-needle point did a fine job of finding that off shoulder on O'l Buffy.


I aint skeered of Biggie.........cause he can't catch me    :D
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: sbschindler on February 11, 2007, 08:30:00 PM
getting back to the orginal point the tips were curling in foam, now that don't sound good at all. chisled or not. btw don't clip them with a sheares but file a small chisle on em. takes about a minute per head if you're slow.  you can over due it vey easly.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: LV2HUNT on February 12, 2007, 12:47:00 PM
Biggie, is that riotous or righteous? Could go either way really.   ;)
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Gene Hall on February 12, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
Woodsman's needle point!  I have no trouble getting them shaving sharp.  Killed 5 deer this season and two last year with the same head.  Would have killed more, but on the last one, the arrow passed through and dang if I could find it.  Best broadhead I've ever shot and easiest to tune.
 Gene Hall
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 12, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
Howler, the tips are needle like...you can't touch one with your finger and not draw blood. It's one of them personal preference things I guess.

Rocky old buddy, ya gotta stick up for you "kids" the Woodsman was our baby :-)

Gene Hall is on here!
You guys always talk about legends of bowhunting, there's one for ya right there!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: alligatordond on February 12, 2007, 05:58:00 PM
Well I can't get one quite as sharp as I can my Zwickey's or Magnus heads. But if I draw a Woodsman across my thumb ,I'll be headed to get stitches so I guess they get plenty sharp enough. Can't imagine what one would do to me at 160 fps.

Just mounted a dozen on my wood shafts. Even though deer season is over I hafta come down slow or I'll get the DT's. Thank God for rabbits and Osceola's(Don don't do hogs)
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Arraflinger on February 12, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
I've used the Woodsman now for quite a few years and have taken my share of deer with them. I've NEVER had a point curl on me. I don't clip the point ,but I do file the very point to a lesser angle. Also alot of folks say they're hard to sharpen. I carry a 12" mill file a fine diamond 'stone' and a piece of leather glued to a 2" by 6"by 1" thick piece of wood. I can get a Woodsman hair popping sharp in about 3 minutes
            Wayne
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Bowmania on February 13, 2007, 02:02:00 PM
The tip of a Woodsman is not the problem, it's the WIDTH.  There is none.  One inch, my %$&*, yea they go through tomatoes, but they don't leak after.

Biggie, you and the Wensels could have both stood on a blade, pushing it out farther on the other side.  Then you'd have a hell of a head for whitetails. LOL!!!!!!!

Bowmania

PS Somebody can always find fault with any thing.  And that's easy for me because I don't have my name on anything.  My real opinion is that for moose or brown bears, griz you can't find a better head, but for whitetail size game I want a bigger hole.  The difference in accuracy between a 160 gr Snuffter and a Woodsman at 20 yards is non existant.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 13, 2007, 03:55:00 PM
hah!
Well, the idea started out as a 3 to 1 ratio. It didn't end up that way but that was the premise. To make it wider would have been to make another snuffer.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Roger Norris on February 13, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
Seriously, you guys that can get a Woodsman "hair popping sharp" in 3 minutes...or any length of time for that matter, using a file, are waaaay better sharpeners than I am. I like the design of the Woodsman; I wanted to use them BAD, but I have never seen one quite sharp enough.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: doctorbrady on February 13, 2007, 05:05:00 PM
Roger,
I am no broahead sharpening wiz, but the WW are SIMPLE to sharpen.  Drag them flat across a steel file or coarse diamond stone, then move to a fine stone, and finally to a piece of leather.  I use my armguard.  Just make sure you get the same number of strokes on each side and apply lighter pressure with each rotation.  There is no angle to worry about because you just lie them flat.  They will pop hairs all day long!
I can't shoot a WW without taking down the tip though, and now I know it's Biggie's fault (not like I'm gonna do anything about it  :)  ).  I have turned more than one point over in critters and out.  The needle tip IS sharp, but it won't hold up to anything hard.  Tapered down, though, it is a mean bugger!!!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Frank AK on February 13, 2007, 05:54:00 PM
i taper the tip down just a wee bit. But I have been turned into a 160 and 145 gr snuffer man. No tip filing needed on those bad boys.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Seeking Trad Deer on February 13, 2007, 06:51:00 PM
Just pull the Woodsman across the belt grinder and you have it sharp.  Was a good article in PBS magazine about a  year ago on that method.

I am going to try them on one of my bows next year.  I haven't yet because they have curled so easily for me when shooting into my targets.  Mr. Asby recorded similar problems in penetration with tip curls on WW heads but that was bigger game.  I plan to snip the point as penetration won't be a problem at 12+ grains per pound of draw weight.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: katman on February 13, 2007, 08:05:00 PM
Filing down the tip at a steeper angle has strenghened the point that I could not get it to curl on trees, storage buildings, plywood, roots, deer shoulders, deer and pig spines and anything else I hit, of course I was testing out the head, that is my story and I am sticking to it.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: N. Rolling Fork on February 13, 2007, 08:35:00 PM
I made the mistake of not fileing the tip,  :knothead:   on the package it said it did'nt have to be done but i should have known better. on all my previous heads i did so, I center punched the humerous bone on a buck and the tip of the ww looked like a elf shoe, i made a fixture to process the tip and they are very strong now.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: J-dog on February 13, 2007, 08:41:00 PM
Can anyone show how they file the tip?? is there any pics. This is the one reason I do not use this head. Love the looks of it but having to cut the tip??? I know they are a good head, no question there. Just would like to see how to cut and file the tip.

Thanks,


Jason
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: katman on February 13, 2007, 09:08:00 PM
No cutting required, just take a file and stroke with steeper angle than the one there, makes the tip look more pyramidal vs needle, it is VERY easy to do.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2007, 11:17:00 PM
J-dog,

Here ya go......the 2nd clip will show you....

   Sharpening the WW by Charlie Lamb (http://tradgang.com//noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000047)
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 14, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
It's been said a hunnert times. It's a personal issue as is with most bowhunting things.
It's psychological for me. If I touch the tip and it doesn't draw a speck of blood, I put it in the rabbit arrow pile.
When I run out of sticker thingys to check my blood sugar, I use a needle point woodsman. no pain and a good sized blood sample :-0
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Seeking Trad Deer on February 14, 2007, 12:28:00 PM
Thanks for posting that tutorial Terry.  Seeing how the tip is done helped me understand.  I'll try a pyramid instead of snipping it.  A picture is worth a thousand words....thanks for the picture   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Guru on February 14, 2007, 12:49:00 PM
Biggie, you're too much bud    :biglaugh:

 I've used them both ways with success....usually after the needle point get ruined,I pyramid the tip.....The only tip I've rolled on one was after a pass thru that smashed a rock!
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: J-dog on February 14, 2007, 01:05:00 PM
Thanks Terry,

Pic is worth more than words, I saved them to the puter. Ordering a pack a WWs before the day is out.

Jason
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Roger Norris on February 14, 2007, 02:01:00 PM
OK..I have been following this thread right along, and have worked on a Woodsman as we have been posting here, it's sitting here on my desk. I followed all of the instructions (that video was awesome), and yes, this Woodsman is sharp enough to hunt with. It's an awesome head, well made, well thought out.

Here's my problem...12" files, belt sanders, honing stones? I can take a 6" Grobet file and put it in my pocket...sharpen a 2 blade Magnus (or any 2 blade head) ANYWHERE. I shoot my broadheads all the time during hunting season. 90 seconds with a small file and they are scary again. There is nothing wrong with a Woodsman head. They just aren't for me...although I think I may try one on a turkey this year.

I spent a lot of time years ago FORCING myself to learn to make a head scary sharp, the simplest way possible. I suppose I just can't be re-trained.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: southpawshooter on February 14, 2007, 02:18:00 PM
Sharpening woodsman's scary sharp is very easy in the field.  I have used the cheap Norton dual sided stones, about $6 at Home Depot.  The stone will fit in your pocket easily enough.

I also like these:

     (http://www.jewelstik.com/GRAPHICS/jewelstick1.jpg)

   3 Sided Jewelstik (http://www.jewelstik.com/HTML/jsknifesharpener.html)

The jewelstick will sharpen anything you through  at it in short order, so you can sharpen your knives, etc. in the field real quick and easy.  I would not try to sharpen any of my knives with a file, so the right tool gives you more usage.

A WW shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to get as sharp as any 2 blade right from the package.  Touchups are only a minute or two.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Seeking Trad Deer on February 14, 2007, 04:56:00 PM
Roger...it is hard to beat a two Blade Magnus IMHO...toughest head I have yet used.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2007, 05:06:00 PM
Roger,

Once you get the bevels smoothed out on the belt sander or big file....touch up in the field is a since with that little diamond rod posted up there....and with a little grobet.

BTW, that little Jewel Stick is a jewel let me tell ya.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Roger Norris on February 14, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
I love that Jewel Stick, I use the "Stubby" one all the time.

I'm going to keep working on the Woodsman. Like I said, it's obviously a great head...I'm just snake bit when it comes to getting the edge the way I like it.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
Most important Roger is getting those bevels all level....once you get them there....its easy to get them sharp, and keep them sharp.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: J-dog on February 15, 2007, 10:28:00 AM
I think just an animal passthru a couple ceramic rods would bring the edge back less you seriously punched through a shoulder.

I will get a jewel stick to throw in the pack.

Later

Jason
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: southpawshooter on February 15, 2007, 10:35:00 AM
Terry's right, the most important part is evening out the factory edges.  Once there, the sharpening goes real quick.
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: Seeking Trad Deer on February 15, 2007, 01:15:00 PM
Tried the method shown in the video and couldn't get em sharp enough.  I think I will stick to the belt grinder.  Don't know what I am doing wrong...they get pretty sharp just not very sharp for me on the files.  Maybe I am wimpy or something :-).
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: dino on February 16, 2007, 07:13:00 PM
Mike,
I don't know how your sharpening them with the files, but the key to a file is that you have to use a light hand.  A light hand will get them razor sharp, just the same as belt sander or other methods out there.  That being said, I would stick with the easiest method for you.  Nothing wrong with that.    ;)  dino
Title: Re: Wensel Woodmans VS THE BLOCK
Post by: fflintlock on February 16, 2007, 07:28:00 PM
That was a very good instuctional video.
Thanks for posting.
Jerald