Not wanting to get anything started just asking for comparisons to those that have shot both.I've noticed the prices are nearly the same.How do they compare?I'm sure their both very well made bows and I'm probably just splitting hairs here.Please post your comments and post pics.Thanks tradrick
I have owned both. These are 2 very different bows,the way they feel, shoot and look. Depending on which model of Widow you are talking
about, the Widow will slightly out perform the Blacktail. In the looks department the Blacktail blows the Widow out of the water. I have killed alot of game with the old MAIII's. You need to get your hands on both to see and feel the differences. Good luck.
Go ahead and buy a Widow,then order a Blacktail.By the time the Blacktail is ready you will have saved the money for it.You can shoot both and sell the one you don't want.
zwickeyman is right on in that the Widows are better shooters/performers while the Blacktail looks better.
There are plenty of great used Widows on the market and if you want a new one, it's about 3-4 months. It's almost a year for a new Blacktail and Norm makes far fewer bows than Widow.
Thanks for the input guys.Black Widow is suppose to be at the Howard Hill Shoot in June so I guess I can go play then.I'm not in any hurry.And I'm not spending that kind of money until I can shoot one.RH Clark are you going to the ASTB Children's Hospital Shoot next month?Thanks tradrick
I don't own a BW but I know they have a demo program as does Fedora, and other top bowyers do too.
They will ship you one to shoot for a week or two-get your card ready and check it out!
Just a question. I see where Blackhawk says, "..Widows are better shooters/performers while the Blacktail looks better." Would you give up 10fps arrow speed to be able to shoot and gaze upon the beauty of a Blacktail? Just asking...not trying to cause an argument. :)
heck yeah.
Both good, only you can decide which is best for you.
I've owned both and I like the Blacktail better. I think the Widow is a great bow, but I don't think it performs that much better than a Blacktail.
I like the Blacktail for 2 reasons. The grip and the looks. I think the Blacktail bow is the best looking bow out there.
You really need to shoot both and compare the grips before you decide, but I'd go with the Blacktail.
I say own both!!
It would be interesting to see some chrono numbers comparing the 2 bows. The widows are quick, but there are bows out there that are much quicker. I would bet the widow wouldn't be more than 2-3 FPS faster-if that much.
I'd say go with a Widow! Very accurate, forgiving bows. Steady and balanced. Performance is the top and to me the Osage PSA X or PMA X is the "Bee's Knee's"....
I like my Widow
I am a lefty, my BW PGA shoots my arrow at 178 fps. Yesterday at a 3D shoot I shot my friend's right hand Blacktail (about 1#heavier for me) with the same arrow. I got right at 180 with it.
Just for comparison, my new Morrison with the foam core limbs, same dw as my Widow shoots the same arrow at 184. Not enough difference in any of them to care about.
I have owned and shot both, shot a blacktail for a few years, I have to disagree about performance, the Blacktail shot right with the Widow. Widows are only average speed wise as are the Blacktails. Norms bows are absolutely gorgeous and ya can get a lot more options and choices. I like Widows and have one on the way, but ya can take ten Widow PMA's in greybark and lay them side by side and not tell one from the other, Norms bows you will be able to tell them apart. Both great bows, but if ya want a one of a kind unique bow and a great shooter, go with the Blacktail. Shawn
I have owned alot of Widows and just one Blacktail. I was also a little dissapointed with the performance of the Blacktail, but as far as looks go, it was the prettiest bow I have owned. But, I also love the looks of the 3-piece Widows. There durability, shootablility, the way they fit my shooting style, and their great customer service and company history, makes them my personal choice.
Thanks guys,lots of good opinions.I'll be checking them out.tradrick
I own a MA-2 and a Black Tail Elite both at #56 LB
Shooting a 29" 2018, the widow will put the arrow thru the chrono at 186 fps. The black Tail will do it at 182 fps. If I take the D-97 string off of the widow, Both bows will be within 2 fps. The widow is a little more comfortable to shoot because it does not have as high a grip as does the Black Tail. Hope this helps.
Hey RB....what kind of string is on your Blacktail??
Im gonna say blacktail cuse i have one and will order another mine is 60# at 30" acouple days ago i put a 425x endless made by gene moe what an awsome change from a flemish twist made with dyna 97.i wasnt even looking for improvement i havent shot a bw with ff so icant really help. just wanted to brag about the blacktail.
A.S.
That is the case with MOST bows (recurves) they are all within about 4-8 FPS of each other. Not enough speed difference to worry about. Choose the one that feels and apeals to you the most.JMO
When I wrote in my earlier post..."Widows are better shooters/performers while the Blacktail looks better"...I should have included "for me".
Some tend to interpret this to mean "faster", but that is not what I considered since I do not think there is much difference. I currently have a Black Widow recurve as well as a Blacktail and have no plans to get rid of either one.
The stability, shootablility, and accuracy I get from both is certainly top notch, but I have to give the Widow a little higher mark.
As they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and some of those Blacktails are works of art.
Shoot them both and you will probably want to own both.
A comment on gamegetters post that I would like to make is that is not the case. Most recurves are not within 4-8fps. of each other. if you are talking most of the middle road performer(BT,BW, Schafer etc.) than yes, but there are others that are a lot quicker and others that are a lot slower. As I said both are great bows and the performance difference is not an issue as are the shooting qualities, but for pure beauty, in my eyes BT's have it all over the Widows. Shawn
For me it is a no brainer.Widow all the way.A choice between getting a bow in a few weeks verses a couple of years makes things easy for me.BT are great looking bows but I buy bows to shoot not look at or wait for. :biglaugh:
Somethings are just worth waiting for. One reason I hunt is look at the beautiful scenery. Why not have a beautiful bow too? Especially when you can enjoy how it shoots too.
When I hunt there is a good chance the bow will be covered with spray paint so all that pretty stuff will be gone anyway. :)There is not a bow in the world that I would wait over a couple of months for.Just too many other bows to be had that will shoot just as nice.Given a choice I had rather buy a bow used and walk away with it right then. :bigsmyl:
I've shot both and have friends that own Blacktails in various lengths. My opinion is that Norm's 60" bow is significantly faster than his longer bow lengths. I have a buddy that owns one of his 64" models. When shot along side of another friends 60" with the same poundage and arrow weight, the 60" noticably out performs the 64". The Blacktail takes it hands down on looks but I prefer a 60" PSA. It's very forgiving, well balanced and will shoot along side of any of the ones known more for speed. JMO.
Terry
I've never shot a blacktail, never had the patient to wait for one and never had the cash when a used one comes along. I've shot a bunch of bows and, hands down, Ishoot the takedown Widows the best.
Now as far as looks are concerned I think Blacktail along with Brandon Stahl's Rose Oaks have the nicest lines among all recurves. However, the Black Widow PTF and PA are very purty themselves. Just my $.02...Mike
I know this is an old topic, but I first read it a few days ago.
I don't understand why some guys say that the widows are not top performers?
I shot whith many bows through the crono, and the widows I measured(a psav and a ptf) are the fastest, they outperform: blacktail(5 fps),Border with hex 4 limbs(2fps), great plains(5fps),Martin hunter(6fps),Predator(2fps),Bear grizzly(11fps)and some other bows.
All bows were measured with same grain/pound ratio and the same drawlenght.
Also the tests of Blacky Schwarz give us similar results. Maybe some bows(ACS,Black swan) are about 2-3 fps faster(Blacky test), but what are 2fps?:0,3" draw difference! Are they as forgiving,smooooooth and dead in the hand????!!!!
I have owned and shot both, and the the only Widow that may perform better is the TF model. If you shoot one of Norms bows with bamboo core and VL limbs they perform as well or better than the other Widows and as far as looks well it is not even close. Widows are bomb-proof and great bows but in my eyes do not compare to one of Norms bows. Shawn
I love my widows, but those blacktail one piece bows are smokin hot in the looks department. anyone got pics of those bows strung.
i really like my blacktail vl heavy arrows like 600 to 700 grains fly great . it may even be bombproof im not that gentle with it and shoot a lot.there are tougher than you may think.
Yeah, everyone should buy a BW......(that way I can get an order faster!) LOL
me first :campfire:
Shawn, I noticed you've mentioned better performing recuves a couple of times.. I'm not wanting to hijack this thread but what recurves have you had that were noticeably quicker than the BT or BW ? Thanks for the info..
Black Widow all the way. I have owned both and for me, the Widow was a much better shooter. As mentioned above it was the much better performer and quieter than the Blacktail I owned. As far as looks go, I think my PLGA is very nice to look at.
Snag to answer your question. I definately would not give up 10 fps just for looks. Alot of folks will say what's 10 fps. Well it equal about 5 pounds in draw weight. So I will stay with the nice looking 50# bow rather that a nice looking 55# that I can't handle as well. I know speed isn't the only thing to look for in a bow, but neither is pretty. At least, in my opinion.
I own one Blacktail and it is a very quiet bow, but it's tuned properly and I shoot a relatively heavy arrow for a 42# bow, 550 grains. Came with a Dyna97 string and a pair of rubber cat whiskers attached to it. I don't worry about speed since my shots are usually between 15-20 yards. Quiet is the name of the game for me. I liked my Blacktail so much, I have a second one on order and it should arrive September of 2009. BTW, both of my Blacktails are long in length, the old and the new, 66".
There will not be ten feet per second between the two of them...same weight...same length...same arrow weight, etc.
This gets a little tiring listening to the experts rave on about the bows that they like. There are many bows that perform so closely that it really doesn't matter. It would help if you could shoot the thing worth a hoot; I think that is more important than a lot of other aspects. Do not buy any bow until you have shot it yourself, and you will be less likely to be posting it on the classifieds within a year.
There will be lots of traditional shoots this summer to attend, that's where you need to look. Shoot other models as well; Zipper, Assenheimer, Hummingbird, Caribow, and myriad others. You may find another brand that fits you perfectly and performs to your satisfaction. Don't overlook the Pittsley Predator....one of the fastest tested by Blacky Swartz yet a very sweet shooting bow.
True performance encompasses shootability, in addition to comfort, speed, etc. View the opinions for what they are, then get to some shows and shoot the bows you are interested in. It's the only real way to find that special one.
george your right what shoots best for the person is whats important .... however its a fun debate otherwise
I agree George. I love Norm's bows because of the fit in my hand, the sight picture the riser gives you, the even draw and quiet release and low handshock...but if you can add looks to the package it's a plus.
I also agree if you can shoot them to determine what you like that's the way to go. Unfortunately I couldn't do that. So, for the first couple of yrs. I was buying and selling longbows and recurves to shoot them and find what I liked. There are a lot of good bows out there. Good luck and enjoy the journey!
Since three weeks I own a Blacktail Elite VL T/D 46# @28". I must tell you it is indeed a beauty and great to shoot with.
Before this BT bow I owned a Great Plains Palo Duro 47# @28" B-model recurve which I really liked. As comparison between the two: The BT shoots 10 fps faster and to be honest it took me a couple of days to get used to the grip but now I'm fine and can get my arrows in a 6" ring at 20 yards which gave me more problems with the GP. I have changed to a slightly different shooting style/technique for my BT compared to the GP but, for me, it gives better scores that way.
Since I am mostly shooting 3-d competiton, speed and quietness is not really an issue but it sure makes a difference between other recurve shooters at such an event. I like a quiet bow that also has good speed.
One time, at a 3-d shoot, I had the opportunity to shoot a BW PMA T/D which was quite noisy with string silencers installed. I told the owner to adjsuts/tune the brace height but he replied that he did not want to do that as he liked the bow the way it is. So you see, and also what George is saying, it all depends on personal preferences.
V-Archer
I own 3 BW PSA and 3 BT, I don't have to choose I enjoy them all. The Widows for sure are noiser and they require a stiffer arrow spine at the same D. weight. About the speed they look to shoot pretty the same(could it be the different hand position?)What I noticed is the newer BT VL limb with bamboo cores look to be much faster than the old ones. At hunting distances I don't see that big difference and I keep shooting both :biglaugh:
Pat to answer your question, RER bows, Zipper bows, Fedoras, Fazios bows and a host of others. I am not sold on fast bows but I like the best of both quick and quiet, so RERs are for me as would be the blacktail as they are way quiter and easier to get quiet than any widow made. I should also say I owned one blacktail that I shot better than any bow I have ever owned and would love to get it back!! Shawn
cacciatore, what spine do you shoot in your BT's? I shoot 85# spined POC out of my 55#.
"..,I don't have to choose I enjoy them all." I didn't have to choose, I wanted to choose. I find if I stay with one bowyer's bows I can get more consistant and improve in my shooting.
Snag,the Bt I am using right now is a 61# @29",60" axle to axle VL,bamboo lims I shooting GT 55/75 at 610grs with nock adapter and 70grs weights at nock end 100grs in front al adapter and 145BH.Very good flight!they group together.About Cedars I ain't tryed yet but I guess 85# 29" can work just good with 125 BH
Hi Ciao) Cacciatore,
what kind of BW and BT do you own? I'd like to see their pics, would you like to send them to my e-mail (markhill75@libero.it)?
That's true BW likes stiffer shaft but BT is excellent with heavier one.
Anyway after testing both I think BT outperforms BW in speed but BW is better in forgiveness (just my two cents). I own a PSAX bocote.
Order your BT and pickup a used BW.Give you a couple years to shoot the BW before the BT get here.Then compare.
"the Bt I am using right now is a 61# @29",60" axle to axle". Are we trying to mix our species here or are we not sure what we are shooting?
I currently have both a BW PSAX and a Blacktail Snakebit. They are both 60" bows. The PSAX is 49#@28" and the Blacktail is 50#@28". I have had both bows now for several years and have used both in several 3D tournaments. I like them both and shoot them both equally as well. I have noticed little if any difference in speed, cast, and noise and can go from one to the other with ease. I can personally vouch for both companys that their customer service is top notch. I enjoy shooting them both. As others have mentioned, when it comes to looks the Blacktail wins hands down, yet the Widow has a appeal all its own and the guys at the Widow Works have been steadly improving over the last few years on the looks of their bows. You can't go wrong with either.
I think you should throw a Silver Tip into the equation......... I have and have had several Widows, alas no Blacktails, I would definately check out S-Tips before laying down the cash!!
With a "tip" you give up nothing in either the looks or performance... my $.02
Gene
Well there are infinite bows to throw in the equation, we are just comparing this to makes,for people considering a buying. What Sraitshot sayed